Thinking of moving to Europe from New Zealand, how much should I (25F) have saved?
Posted by swanlakefae@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 94 comments
Hi guys, I’ve (25F) been thinking about moving to Europe (location TBD, I like a lot of places… Sweden, France, UK, Netherlands) and I currently live in New Zealand) but I have never really travelled much and I have no idea how much to save!
I’m not a backpacking or a hostel girl - I’m totally prepared to cut costs in other areas but I want to be comfortable.
I have only recently started saving for this, in the last few months I have saved about $13k NZD. I feel like it’s nothing, but saving is really hard here in New Zealand with our cost of living. Thankfully I don’t really have a timeline for this move it’s just sort of whenever I feel like I have enough saved.
I would appreciate literally any advice in this area I feel completely blind, I’ve watched youtube videos and tiktok’s etc but the NZD is really different as we are one of the weakest currencies in the world so I can never quite fully comprehend other videos if it’s not from a kiwi POV.
Thanks and appreciate it!
EvolveCT9A@reddit
Why? You already live in a wealthy country, event more than most european countries, I don't see the benefits.
exsnakecharmer@reddit
NZ is Norway cost of living on Italian wages.
proof_required@reddit
This is even true. A quick Google can verify that. Blatant exaggeration
Milan vs Auckland COL comparison
Grass ain't greener at least when your complains are about COL.
exsnakecharmer@reddit
Does the whole of Italy run on Milan prices? Because the whole of NZ has Auckland prices (for lower wages).
And looking at those Numberoo prices, it’s woefully inaccurate in any case.
proof_required@reddit
Unless OP is planning to live in some Italian village, I feel like your point is moot. Outside of Milan it's even dire since there are hardly any jobs. I can't provide you any data for obvious reasons. But the point was Auckland is not even as expensive as Milan and you were making it sound like Norwegian city.
exsnakecharmer@reddit
As I mentioned, no average person is on the wage in numberoo - average wage in NZ is $NZ56,000 Norway is $NZ112,000. (the rent is incorrect too amongst other things).
This is throughout NZ not just limited to Auckland.
Unlike the EU we can’t just move to another country or place to get a higher paying job very easily, so many people get trapped here.
EvolveCT9A@reddit
So is most of the EU
exsnakecharmer@reddit
Yeah but you have access to Europe for cheap. Even Asia is a 12 hour plane ride for NZers.
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
Thanks, I can’t really be bothered repeating to 30 different people that New Zealand is just as expensive as the places I am interested in travelling to, except NZ has terrible pay, very poor quality little houses, every thing closes at 3pm and it’s not as great as they think it is
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
It would be a long list to explain. Do I need to justify why I personally want to move overseas? I have lived in New Zealand for 25 years I know what it has to offer and what it doesn’t, I haven’t travelled much and I’m young enough, I just want to experience something different.
T1sofun@reddit
Going on an adventure is a perfectly legitimate reason.
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
thanks. these comments are insane
T1sofun@reddit
Don’t let them get to you. You’re young. Move on a whim. Make mistakes! Make new ones! Meet new people, try all the foods, do all the things. Life’s too short to be practical all the time.
exsnakecharmer@reddit
As I mentioned, no average person is on the wage in numberoo - average wage in NZ is $NZ56,000 Norway is $NZ112,000. (the rent is incorrect too amongst other things).
This is throughout NZ not just limited to Auckland.
Unlike the EU we can’t just move to another country or place to get a higher paying job very easily, so many people get trapped here.
Individual_Warthog70@reddit
You will live (i hope) to regret this decision.
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
weirdly threatening but ok
exsnakecharmer@reddit
Such weird responses. People are furious with you for wanting to explore. I’d look at the UK, then take some trips to find places you like. Good luck!
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
🩷
Individual_Warthog70@reddit
Not threatening at all, but you are trading in for smth much worse.
CptPatches@reddit
Netherlands, UK, Sweden, and parts of France all have their own issues with rising costs of living. You'll have to get a better handle on where exactly you want to live and what visas you'd be eligible for.
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
Cost of living is absolutely terrible in New Zealand, our dollar is weaker, our pay is lower, our homes are damp and poor quality (and scarce) and it’s incredibly expensive for being geographically isolated with very little to do and enjoy (personally).
I am not deluded into thinking a move to europe would be cheaper, but I would rather be spending the same amount and things being expensive but I have more opportunities, better travel access, more things to do, and experience a different lifestyle.
proof_required@reddit
Just go on numbeo and do a local salary adjusted comparison between big European vs NZ cities. This isn't to say you should move but more to set your expectations realistic.
Local Purchasing Power in Auckland is 21.4% higher than in Madrid
Local Purchasing Power in Auckland is 88.5% higher than in Lisbon
CptPatches@reddit
Well yeah, if your comparisons are Madrid and Lisbon, it's going to seem like a huge difference. But OP didn't name Spain or Portugal whatsoever.
proof_required@reddit
So they aren't really cheap as comments here are asking OP to move to these cities.
If we want to get out of big European cities, are we also comparing the costs against smaller NZ towns? Usually as a foreigner you aren't moving to some little town with limited job options. That's why I said pick bigger cities.
CptPatches@reddit
i don't think you're deluded, I'm just saying it's more useful, both for you and for commenters here, to get more down to brass tacks and figure out a plan of attack.
Based on your first edit, I really think first things first should be to apply for dual citizenship with Ireland via descent. That makes the uphill battle of moving and finding work a lot less of a hassle anywhere in the EU, not just Ireland.
OneUpAndOneDown@reddit
It's interesting (and understandable - you're young and want variety and adventure, so it's like moving from the 'burbs to the inner city) that a lot of people in Europe or the US aspire to move to NZ for the peace and natural beauty.
cr1zzl@reddit
As someone who moved to NZ (here for 10 years now), a lot of people see NZ as this utopia when that is far from the reality and it is arguably more difficult to live here long term than many other countries for the reasons OP has given.
And honestly until you experience living here on a budget you don’t realise just how shit the houses really are, how expensive everyday items are, and how isolated you are from the rest of the world.
I’ve known SO MANY people, usually from America but also from Europe, to come here and then nope out a couple years later when they realise there are far more opportunities elsewhere… despite how beautiful it is here.
I do enjoy my life here but I was lucky enough to find a job I really enjoy that at least pay the bills and fell in love with a kiwi who also loves their job. Even though we are both in full time professional jobs, with no children, we’re only just getting by and our specific enjoyment of our jobs/hobbies/each other is what allows us to stick it out here but honestly for a lot of other people it really sucks.
OneUpAndOneDown@reddit
Thanks, it's useful to know this. But I feel that it's similar in many places now. I live in rural Australia and only travel the world via internet. House prices have gone up tenfold in the last thirty years while wages have at most tripled and employment is less stable.
OldWitchOfCuba@reddit
"issues" is an understatement. Its impossible to get a house
Veec@reddit
Ireland and NZ are almost identical in terms of housing crisis but there are more jobs in Ireland and the pay is better so don't count it out as a stepping stone. The UK can be punitive to immigrants (look up NHS contributions. I don't know if the rules are different for you because NZ is in the Commonwealth) but you at least have the language which will make it easier to get jobs.
Avoid the Nordics as it is incredibly difficult to integrate there (I currently live in Finland and hate it). You will not be able to find employment in most non-English speaking countries unless you speak the language of that country. A lot of the 'English speaking jobs' people are talking about in the Netherlands are political/academic jobs which you'd find hard to get. The major cities in Germany can be alright, but you will have to learn German pretty fast. As an English speaker, it's not the hardest thing in the world. Spain is in an economic recession with sky high unemployment.
Honestly, every country has a cost of living crisis at the moment because it's the times we live in, but you're right that the major cities in Europe will provide more opportunities for you. I wouldn't move, however, without a job in hand or at least a plan, as rent alone will set you back 600-1k a month.
To answer your question, I probably wouldn't move without 20k in my back pocket if I wasn't sure I'd get a job fast.
ellytic@reddit
Hey there!
It's great that you're thinking about making a move to Europe. Planning ahead is key, especially when it comes to finances. Here are some points to consider:
Your current savings of around $13k NZD is a good start, but the amount you'll need can vary widely based on your destination and lifestyle.
Full disclosure: I work at Ellytic (ellytic.com), which helps with AFM registration and certified translations if you decide on Greece. Happy to answer any questions! Good luck with your planning!
thefizzlee@reddit
I'm from the Netherlands and we do get alot of expats here (tho most here are for ASML in my region) but at my job we also have increasingly more englisch speaking people. Generally speaking Englisch isn't a big issue (apart from certain places for safety reasons) but in office work most people are fine with Englisch. I'm not sure what the process is to get a work visa but I'd assume if you already have a job lined up it shouldn't be an issue.
Housing is an issue here but it also depends on your budget and needs, because I also feel people have either very high standards or all want the same house and it also greatly depends on the city you plan to live in.
The Netherlands isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but it's a nice place to live. Certain things are expensive but they also help keep the quality of life higher. The weather will probably be a switch but I've never been to new Zealand (I just assumed it's nice and warm over there lol).
If you have any more direct questions about the Netherlands feel free to ask or sent a pm. I'll try my best to answer them.
OldWitchOfCuba@reddit
I dont understand why, a lot of us europeans can only dream of moving to NZ. Serious question, why do you feel EU is better? Ps just to make this clear: i love the EU. But NZ seems like such an absolutely beautiful and friendly place!
dylanger_@reddit
NZ is also very isolated, living in the EU, a weekend trip to Madrid or Paris is easily accessible.
In NZ you've really only able to visit Australia
OldWitchOfCuba@reddit
Good point!
cr1zzl@reddit
Visiting NZ and living in NZ are wildly different things, it’s not the utopia people think it is. It’s difficult for many reasons a European wouldn’t be able to comprehend without living it.
exsnakecharmer@reddit
The only thing NZ has to offer is nature and we’re fucking that up as quick as we can. If you look beyond that you realise it’s an expensive, low wage, provincial backwater, with no hope of rectifying the situation.
A historical building will be from 1930.
The small towns are full of meth, the depressed, and the people left after the ambitious have moved to Australia.
Poor old NZ, I do love you so (I’m a Kiwi).
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
it’s nice to see a fellow kiwi here who actually understands the climate. I feel like I have 30+ people on my neck telling me I’m insane and deluded for wanting to leave the paradise new zealand they were sold, nz tourism working overtime for sure. Our nature is beautiful but that’s honestly it. It’s very hard to survive here.
exsnakecharmer@reddit
Go and explore! I did. Came back at 37 and regret it every day. There’s some good things for sure about living here, but there’s also a whole world out there. NZ is a retirement village.
ColdBloodedWings@reddit
I absolutely love NZ and is one of my favorite places to visit but living there as a 20 yo. Nope! Better for old people like me that are done with the rodeos.
FlippinHeckles@reddit
Wages are low and jobs few, the cost of living in NZ is high for what you earn. It is a beautiful place, and if you have money coming in from outside then it is a paradise. Most Kiwis end up moving to Australia.
OldWitchOfCuba@reddit
Thank you for this answer, very informative!
Stock_Fly3825@reddit
Go to Spain, Madrid is cheap and nice
deep-sea-balloon@reddit
I ♥️ Madrid
No-Echo-8927@reddit
This is wild, why would someone want to move somewhere they've never even visited?
Just go on holiday, travel around Europe for a couple of months then decide.
cr1zzl@reddit
Have you really never heard of someone moving somewhere they haven’t been before? Goodness most people I know have done it at some point in their lives.
deep-sea-balloon@reddit
It's not as easy as it used to be. It seems as if immigration authorities worldwide are tightening up.
No-Echo-8927@reddit
so we're just ignoring the fact that in 2026 in LOTS of european countries you:
a) Need to know the language to a certain level in order to get a visa to work there
b) Need to HAVE a job there BEFORE you move there
c) Need to have a place to live there (a main residency address) AND residency permit
?
You may have lived at a time where people just rocked up to a country, signed a form and moved in to a flat, cash in hand. That is not now.
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
Because it’s an adventure? If I go with enough money and a return trip home why does it really matter? I can always move if I don’t like it, I’m not a tree
No-Echo-8927@reddit
no but you also aren't an EU citizen, which means you need a working visa at minimum - and a job there - before moving, neither of which might be possible without first learning a language to atleast a b2 grade. That's a lot of work to just "have an adventure", when you can just go travelling and have an adventure first.
magrandan@reddit
You want to leave a country with low wages and high cost of living..to Europe which has low wages and high cost of living, not to mention lot of your liked places don’t even speak English! Unbelievable.
exsnakecharmer@reddit
It’s almost like Kiwis want to see the world! Who would’ve thought?
deep-sea-balloon@reddit
I always translated "see the world" as "travel", not move. My bad. OP already said that she doesn't want to travel around Europe to see which location might best fit her, so idk.
Nervous-Onion1281@reddit
Honestly, in EU we have the same issues + you will have hard time with the languages, I speak 4-6 languages and I still struggle ahah only decent option for you would be Ireland/uk but you said you dont wanna go there
Physical-Fly6697@reddit
I would get your Irish passport sorted out and just move to London. Other places are going to be too difficult in my opinion without knowing the language.
radiopelican@reddit
Kiwi in Finland here.
Spend 1 year in NZ first learning the language, I'm talking part time at least 15-20 hours a week.
No Duolingo is not enough.
I moved to Finland here and had to do langiage integration school for an entire year and left my job and industry to do so.
Do not move to a european country without learning the language first. spending 1 year in NZ learning it will save you 3 years in Europe.
mmoonbelly@reddit
You can get around that in NL as they have international/English speaking jobs there, but being able to read German/Dutch helps.
Apologies Nederlanders, but most written Dutch is understandable if you can read German and can make the mental flips on the regular vowel and consonant shifts between the languages.
not_pletterpet@reddit
True, but this doesnt work for the entire country. The Hague and Amsterdam are the places to be as an English speaker, and while these places contribute a lot to the economy, you are missing out on like 60% of opportunities if you dont speak Dutch.
For example Brabant is an up and coming region in NL, but outside of ASML or very specific hard to recruit jobs you are going to need to speak Dutch
Electrical-Tone7301@reddit
Reality check: the number of fully english speaking jobs is limited and a contested battlegrounds among expats. Most companies live and breathe in dutch and everyone having to adjust to one english speaker is simply not worth it.
Ok-Expression-7340@reddit
Work for any large bank or insurance company or international company and speaking only English is no problem at all.
mmoonbelly@reddit
Jawol.
My wife’s company did it for her when we lived there, working in English just for her and letting her use her French with their head office.
Electrical-Tone7301@reddit
It’s rare, you have to be personally more valuable than the alternative. Which isn’t impossible but it doesn’t bode well for those doing things out of desperation.
mmoonbelly@reddit
After my contract in The Hague ran out, I got hired in Amsterdam by an Indian MNC. Zero need for Dutch, even with hiring and managing Dutch junior consultants.
Electrical-Tone7301@reddit
Does a 26 yo from NZ sound like shes going to barge in here and start managing consultants?
mmoonbelly@reddit
Who knows. We had Americans thinking they could in London because we had to make them managing consultants to match pay grades.
TheRollingFern@reddit
Well in The Netherlands you will get by pretty well with English, but we do appreciate you learning the language. Don't know in what field you are looking for work, but depending on that you might have more need for learning Dutch first.
not_pletterpet@reddit
You can only get away with talking English in Amsterdam with the international companies. Local smaller business will not higher you if you dont speak Dutch.
Notsocheeky@reddit
I would first visit a few countries here on a holiday. Not just move to a country you have never ever visited. You will regret it.
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
People do it all the time, this is a genuine question but if I move with enough money, return flights home, why can’t I just theoretically move to the UK and if I don’t like it I can move somewhere else I just don’t get why it needs to be seen as a big permanent commitment.
Notsocheeky@reddit
Very often they have a job lined up here, they dont just move here.
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
I’m sure there are people that move with savings and they look for work while living on those savings. Also why can’t I apply for jobs before moving? My post was a general question for any guidance on moving. I feel like a lot of people (not you) are projecting their own fear, I’m not afraid of moving somewhere new I WANT something new. I’ve solo travelled asia, I’ve moved around new zealand living in different cities by myself since I was 18 years old I am independent, smart and capable. I’m not afraid of this, I want to do it.
CoffeeCheeseYoga@reddit
Maybe this is where some confusion is? Those countries that allow you to move with savings are referring to retirement level savings. As in proving you never need to work again. The countries that allow you to work, you either need to bring your own job with you or have already found a company in your desired country to sponsor you ahead of time.
For example my husband and I moved to Portugal several years ago. You could either get a visa as a retiree with lots of savings or as a remote worker (you still needed to have some savings too) bringing your own income with you. There is no option to just come and look for a job. All our friends here also have remote jobs from back home.
If you think about it from the countries perspective, you can see why most places are set up this way. A country wants their own citizens to get the chance at the best jobs first. So allowing retirees and remote workers adds to their economy without taking away a job.
MrNimz@reddit
Why come to Europe, I would love to live in New Zealand. I imagine everything there is better than here.
farkoooooff@reddit
I would save 6 months living costs if you want to feel comfortable. A room in Amsterdam will cost you 1k min EUR per month, so that's 2k NZD per month = 12k NZD for accom. Then extra day to day stuf will cost you 1k EUR per month = another 12k for food , expenses and not being in poverty. So I would say 20k would be a comfortable start to have once you're on the ground.
You don't need to live in a hostel or hotel, you can find a sublet through Kiwi community pages. But it can be extremely competitive (AKL is waaaaay easier) and I would budget closer to 1.2k EUR p/m to be realistic. Some friends pay 1.3k each for a room in 3 bed flat. Look up flatting laws too, most places only allow up to 3 people, and there are very few 'flats' so you'll likely start by living in a 2 bed, best case a 3 bed.
Finding a job can be very difficult, even if you think you're doing well in NZ. No one knows our companies, only if you're working for a global one will your CV get you anywhere. You'll need to work really hard and smart to find a job and have received a paycheck within 3 months.
It's tough to get settled, but it's worth it once you're in. You won't be able to ignore the question you get here ("why did you leave NZ omg!") so best to learn to laugh with it. We have an extremely good repuation over here, and it will probably work in your favour to lean into it and show some appreciation for it.
Good luck!
Gullible_Passion_331@reddit
Sounds great. First, you're lucky enough to be entitled to Irish citizenship via your Grandfather, which enables you to live and work freely in the EU and UK. Do that first. Do not just move to the UK or wnywhere els,e because you'll only be allowed to live there for 3 months before needing to move back to NZ.
But once you've got your citizenship, maybe first move to UK and travel from there. France is really nice, you might be able to pick up easy work at a Chateau (often owned by English people). But the cities are a totally different thing – I'd avoid living there due to the language issues. Same for Italy and Spain.
HarvestWinter@reddit
Do you have an Irish passport through your grandfather?
Initial housing will be your biggest expense. Depending on where you move, you won't have access to the regular rental market until you have a local income, and even then you'd just be starting on the process of finding somewhere to live. How much that will actually be will really depend on where you go and your standards for where to stay, but I'd say you want at least a few months worth of accommodation covered past the point where you can start looking for a longer term rental.
If you're an EU citizen, then you can avoid some of that through subletting, which will be cheaper than hotels but won't have you "in the system". If you are moving on a work visa, you'll at least be earning immediately, but not having a registered address wouldn't be an option. The UK would be a bit different there, as it is more like NZ style bureaucracy rather than continental, so you could get away with irregular housing for longer.
For your other expenses, you'll have to look at the cost of living where you want to go, and it'll depend on your lifestyle and standards. If you are moving with a job lined up, whether for a visa or otherwise, you don't really have to factor these in, as you should be able to cover your needs with your pay. If you're an EU citizen moving without a job, you will need to factor these all in and be able to cover them for X months of job hunting. If you go to the UK, without a language barrier, then that will probably be fewer months than if you go to the continent and get locked out of (professional) roles due to the language issue.
Electrical-Tone7301@reddit
You are better off staying put and not losing touch with your support network. Cause it’s not like the grass is greener in Europe. Why don’t you go to Australia like all the other kiwis? Cause you’ll get here, the COL will be high and your wages, if you can even find a job, will disappoint. You will have to learn the language to some fluency in order to build a future. Until you get that done, most businesses won’t even consider hiring you. Meanwhile you will be juggling poorly paid jobs, busy finding something better and finding it really hard to make friends and connect in a lot of places. 7k euro doesn’t last long enough let me tell you.
What is so bad about NZ that you cannot envision a life there? Or OZ or Asia, honestly!! Those all make more sense than throwing yourself into the situation in europe right now.
lovely-cans@reddit
So because your grandfather is Irish you will be able to get an Irish passport which is the best one because we can travel freely and live in both the UK and the EU so I'd recommend getting that sorted ASAP. You have about €6k which is good for backpacking and bumming around for a bit but immediately a lot of that will be used for first months rent and deposit. You'd definitely be able to get bar work in the Netherlands and the UK but the Netherlands is going through a housing shortage at the moment but I know people who've found places in Amsterdam recently so it's not as dire as people are making it out .
Rev-Dr-Slimeass@reddit
NZD 13k is enough to get yourself started for sure if you change your mind on backpacking and hostels to start with. Moving is difficult. You have way more stuff than you think, and starting over in a new country is hard.
If you want to perfectly uproot your life to another country, you should probably aim for 50-100k.
Also, the visa will be a difficult thing if you havent looked into that. Not sure what options kiwis have in europe.
ActuallyCalindra@reddit
Changing her mind on hostels is pretty much going to be a requirement. Finding housing can take months. And for living in hotels you'll need a lot more money.
I'm currently facing the struggle of finding a place to live as a local and it's taking me months. And I have a network, and roots here.
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
Why must I live in hostels?
ActuallyCalindra@reddit
Where else will you live? You won't find housing fast, locals take months to find housing. And hotels are super expensive. Bare minimum 3 times what a hostel costs. Meaning you'll have to budget significantly more before you come.
What other options do you have?
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
My original post says I am perfectly happy to save for longer to accommodate expenses for living in hotels/air bnbs. I have no strict timeline for the move. I don’t want to live in a hostel and I don’t have to.
Rev-Dr-Slimeass@reddit
Yeah you just have to get over that. I lived in New Zealand for a while, and its as tough as anywhere else there.
mushroom_b1ue@reddit
Your first priority, even before saving enough money up, is how you would qualify for a visa or residence. You can't just go somewhere and decide you're going to love there (unless you're very wealthy, unfortunately).
I assume you have a NZ passport, but do you qualify for any other nationality (for instance, based on recent ancestry)? Would you qualify as a highly skilled migrant? Could you afford to study in one of your desired locations?
You need to figure this out first, narrow down which countries would be open for you, and THEN figure out the financial side of things.
Acceptable_Friend_40@reddit
If you want to live in the Netherlands make sure to have housing sorted before you arrive.
It’s almost impossible.
swanlakefae@reddit (OP)
When you guys say housing is impossible are you talking about flatting? Because that’s what I was thinking about doing initially
OldWitchOfCuba@reddit
Flatting is doable, somewhat, but i would not recommend this at all in eg Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam. You will end up paying 1000 euro or more per month for a shitty place for sure. And it remains hard to find a place either way.
Oh and, there are a lot of websites/people scamming you with housing so stay on the lookout and only deal with well known and well-reviewed companies. Do your research, dont pay anyone out of hopium
Wunid@reddit
It would be great to move from New Zealand to the original Zealand.
MermaidMotel14@reddit
Zeeland kinda sucks and housing in the Netherlands os not affordable
akie@reddit
Would not recommend.
anmcnama@reddit
Please believe people when they say there is a housing crisis in most capitals like Paris, Amsterdam, London etc. It's not a case of you will be unique or lucky - even if you are "lucky" and find a place it will be about 1100-1200 a month just for putting a roof over your head, and definitely not in the centre of any of these cities. Europe is wonderful and I am glad I was born and raised here, just know to "live" without additional extras like groceries/clothing/going out/musuems/lifestyle you will need an income of about 1500 a month so about 3000 NZ dollars.
reeleythis@reddit
If you give a bit more context (moving to do what? Immigrate and work? As what? What is your education/skills? Which languages do soy speak? Which visa? Plus mentioned places have different cost of living), then you’ll get better responses.
dylanger_@reddit
Moving from NZ to Europe (Portugal) is one of the best things, I've ever done, life here is sick.
To get a visa I had to have \~10kEUR in a Portuguese Bank account, you'll need to sus out a visa before coming over if you wanna properly move.