Newbie question about sailboats..
Posted by Little_Magazine_1773@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 47 comments
I am looking to get into sailing and been watching quite a few youtube channels on how to do sailing on a budget. One of the best inspirations was Wind Hippie Sailing.
Well she has recently posted about her boat problems and I am linking it.
My question is as someone getting into sailboats.. is it better to buy a boat in that kind of condition for cheap and fix it up as a fixer upper or just invest in something way better that gets me to actual sailing faster?
Thanks for any and all responses.
Sh0ckValu3@reddit
Ask yourself this:
Do I love working on boats as much as, or more than, sailing?
There are a million older boats in "decent" shape that can get you out sailing the same day. Unless there's a very special reason, don't buy a boat that needs a bunch of fixing.
Darkwaxellence@reddit
The value of a boat is the engine. You're buying an engine with a boat attached. If it doesn't work it's not worth money.
asm__nop@reddit
A set of good sails can cost at least as much as an engine but ironically I think it’s the most ignored component in a sailboat purchase
Nestor_the_Butler@reddit
Once you get an engine there are lots and lots of “while you’re in there” costs that range from fuel tanks to electrical upgrades. On my boat, that repower could have been 5-6 sets of sails.
asm__nop@reddit
The same could be said for sails… rigging… winches… clutches… etc.
I’m not saying a repower is cheap. Just hoping to get people to think about the big picture. Everyone is afraid of an old engine. Nobody seems to blink twice at a set of absolutely clapped out rags for sails
pdq_sailor@reddit
ALL boats get old.. The specific difference is that a very few are maintained, repaired, upgraded and most are NOT...
Working on boats is a fact of sailing, wealthy people get others to do it, most people don't know how .. Aquiring the skill sets to do it properly is NOT for everyone... Sailing is NOT for everyone. and the costs involved escalate dramatically... Most people can not afford the basics - slips, storage, surveys, insurance let alone maintenance and upgrades... getting on top of it, staying ahead of the curve.. is not cheap and its not simple and yes it takes MAJOR time.. I just replaced a seven year old depth transducer - part cost $300 and it took 14 hours to install it... It is perfect but if you had to pay someone to install it that would be a lot of money as the hourly rate for this sort of stuff has claimed north of $150 an hour...
FairSeafarer@reddit
A very special reason… choking in my tea…
foilrider@reddit
“I want to get into road trips. Should I buy a project car from the 1970s?”
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
Honestly makes a road trip alot more fun. I did some road trips in my 70s Mercedes w123. And the car was half the fun.
foilrider@reddit
Did you buy the car when it didn't run and you didn't know how to drive with the primary goal being the trip and not the restoration?
Nobody's saying that sailing a classic boat isn't fun, that's not the point.
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
I did actually buy the car when did not run well, it would start. And would not go into gear. And had been sitting in a field at a farm for some year. The goal was just to have a car it was my daily The road trips were just for fun.
Im saying the accomplishment of fixing something and beating the odds along the way adds to the benefits of the trip. With the right mindset breaking down on a road trip turns a run of the mill road trip into a worthwhile adventure. And not much has been more satisfying than breaking down, but jury rigging a repair with run of the mill stuff I had in my car (or boat).
And in the case of sailboats there is an added satisfaction in fixing up the boat (or even more so building your own boat), that amplifies the enjoyment when you get out on the water. Not to mention when you’re with an old and quirky machine, you have to be much more in tune with how every system works and should work. Then when you’re in a new car or boat and can just turn it on and go.
camasonian@reddit
A project car from the 1970s with a non-working engine that is sitting on blocks with no wheels and that was flooded so the wiring harness is toast. And that needs major body work and paint to repair rusted body panels.
Just because a pile of metal is vaguely car shaped doesn't make it a car. Same principle applies in steroids when it comes to boats.
LateralThinkerer@reddit
That boat isn't a project, it's a health hazard. Don't do that.
frak357@reddit
Wow, she made the awful mistake to not pulling out the through-holes so water can’t accumulate in the boat after sitting so long. Her batteries died and shutoff the bilge pumps.
Don’t do what she is doing! Get the best boat you can that gets you onto the water as fast as possible. A good hull with decent rigging and sails with minimal repairs. If you come to love sailing then you will find it won’t be your last boat. Fair winds! 🤗
cinemkr@reddit
I understand your response based on just one video -- but she rebuilt this boat in Maine some 5 years ago and has sailed it half way around the world on a budget. When she left the boat she did not intend for it to be a year. But she had a traumatic brain injury that required months of rehab. She did get the best boat she could AND got it on the water after retrofitting it for Bluewater crusing.. She comes from a family of sailors and already circumnavigated as a child. She literally spent her childhood on the water. She knows what she is doing. This is an exception caused by extraordinary circumstances.
frak357@reddit
I have seen more than one of her videos. It is still a mistake to not pull the through-holes whenever you put the boat on the hard. For the explicit reason you may not be able to control when you get back. Nor would you want to trust your batteries will continue to operate the pumps even for the months one is gone. Her AGM batteries were over 4 years old, within the replacement window.
Irrespective of her situation, as you said she has an extensive history of boating. A newbie wants to get the best boat possible to get on the water ASAP. 🤗
Sinn_Sage@reddit
Cheaper boats tend to be the most expensive.
But my question is how in the heck did that boat get so much water inside? Yea, I know, the tropics but still. It looks like someone left a hatch wide open.
I think I would have pulled the transponder out just to have a hole for water to drain.
How would you have set up the boat for a year long 'sleep over'?
CHIR99021@reddit
I just watched this video earlier. I almost cried with her. I’ve been following her since she left Maine years ago. Understandably she is emotionally attached to gecko. But the amount of money she needs to spend can buy her a lot more boat. She is extremely handy and resourceful that she will restore gecko but I hope she realizes and moves on to the next boat.
LameBMX@reddit
can I get a tldr? I dont watch sailing chans pretty much at all. im invested in this story. but not enough to actually watch it lol.
ArtVandelayII@reddit
I just watched it…oof, that boat is rough. Some viewers on the east coast US have offered to give her their own boats for free. There’s an offer for a Caliber 33, Southern Cross 35, and one other one.
She could probably take one of those, go through the Panama Canal and be back in Indonesia in less time than it would take to repair Gecko.
PineappIeOranges@reddit
I didn’t have time to watch the episode but skipped thru parts. From what I understand is she left to boat in Indonesian for a year and it filled with water. Lots of mold and water damage to the interior and engine. There is also a keel issue of some sorts.
LameBMX@reddit
thanks brah...
profpbr@reddit
There’s a ton of boats out there for sail. It’s a buyers market. Get a good working boat. You’ll still have more projects than you can count. Don’t start with a bunch of projects to even get going. You’ll lose steam before enjoying anything.
You can get sailing for very cheap in a nice boat even.
macm33@reddit
Budgets are challenges.
Understand the different cycles of a boat, especially exit strategy.
The last two parts are subject to many outside circumstances. Major rehabs have costs unknown from material escalations / obsolete equipment to scarcity of labor/mechanics.
There is a sense that you have to clean up a boat well to sell. Maybe just when you don’t have the money or time to.
If you get short on money, and have to sell quick, you may be in a market cycle where others feel the same way “too many seller + too few buyers” makes it a costly competition to sell the boat, investing time and money, at a moment when you don’t have either.
If I could go back, my suggestion would be: find out the reliable way to dispose of the boat, and its cost, then double it. That is your emergency fire sale. Exit plan. you understand this when you get to the moment you need to trade in a car. But when trading in a car, you get $500 for it. Here you might need to spend $5000 to get out from underneath it.
_El_Cid_@reddit
lol even if you opt for the "ready-to-sail" boat you'll still have to work on it all the time. Do NOT get a project boat. Besides, it's a buyers-market. You can find good deals.
camasonian@reddit
My 10 year old 14' laser is in perfect condition and still needs regular work.
HawaiiClipper@reddit
I got a new(er) boat in good condition with a survey and it's an unbelievable amount of work to maintain it. I can't imaging an actual project boat.
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
That’s a hot debated issue. I’m on the side of getting the fixer upper boat. For 3 reasons. 1. It is cheaper. Yes you have to spend money on refitting. But even people who buy expensive boats spend a lot money on refitting. And trust me people will say “there’s nothing more expensive than a cheap boat” but that’s just not true. A modern boat that costs well over 6 figures is a lot more expensive. 2. Some of the old boats are just built better. So you get a better boat when all is said and done. By built better, I mean thicker fiberglass hulls, better designed interiors for for blue water sailing. Simpler and more reliable systems. Easier to modify. More seaworthy cockpits. And so on. Just do the research and compare an old alberg designed boat to a more modern farr designed boat. And for a typical modern cruiser there’s no denying that the alberg would be a more forgiving boat. 3. If you do the work and fix up your boat yourself you’ll become an expert in boat repair. And while that will suck the first winter when the boats on the hard and you spend every weekend fixing stuff. Youll be glad you developed those skills when you make it to Tahiti and have some rigging issues to fix. While the fancy modern sail it away guy is waiting in line at an overpriced boat yard getting a bill that the brain can hardly process. You’ll already be out sailing on your next journey since you developed the skills to access, repair, and jury rig all your stuff.
Now the cost of that old boat is you don’t rip right off into the sunset. You’re gonna spend a year or 3 fixing up that boat and getting it done. But it will be worth it in the end.
asm__nop@reddit
I’m just curious, is this advice is based upon your personal experience or your observations?
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
I personally spent the better part of 2 years fixing up an old Pearson I got for $3000. Those two years were miserable at times. Especially cold winter days at the boatyard. But what I learned has been invaluable. I feel much safer out on the water because I thoroughly understand every inch of my boat. And I made modifications that also make me safer. Things I wouldn’t have thought if I didn’t have to do all That work. For instance cutting access to the stuffing box. I wouldn’t have done that if I didn’t need to redo the stuffing box. But since I added in that access, I can easily inspect it for leaks and tighten/ repack as needed. And the only way I learned every inch was two miserable years of working on it. But now I know what every wire and every hose goes too. I can source any leak in seconds. I can tell you how old and the health of every piece of the boat is. I know all the issues. I know every spot chafe occurs. And I know every fastener on the boat, have appropriate spares and have the tools and techniques to remove them. Many of those techniques I learned just fixing up boat but it makes on the water fixes much more efficient because I’m not learning as I go. And likewise it didn’t cost me $100000 to get the boat on the water. Cost under $20k. Including wind-vane self steering, and a dinghy with outboard.
Foolserrand376@reddit
I am guilty of "buying" a $1 boat actually $2 since it came with a sailing dinghy which I sold for a profit. The boat is a 1988 Moody 376. it was on the hard for 8 years.
I spent 8 months worth of weekends, holidays and vacations working on it. to get it safe and ready for use in the Chesapeake Bay.
That will be 6 years ago in August. The only work I contracted out was $2400 soda blast to remove all the old AF. It wasn't quite a gut job on the boat, but it wasn't far off.
Work I have done aver the last 5.5 years
New fixed port lights, new glass for all hatches, new cushions, new canvas (bimini, dodger, uv strip on Genoa, stack pack, winch covers, pedestal), motor mounts, cutless bearing, PYI dripless shaft seal, rear main seal on engine, multiple coats of bottom paint, bought and modified two sails to replace the 30 year old dacron. replaced one rotten bulkhead, new starter, rebuilt FI pump, added new racor filters, new batteries, new onboard charger, misc new running rigging, Misc new wiring, new hoses on both engine and generator, new belts, new AC water pump, new AC blower housing, new Refer control board, rebuilt heads, new galley/head fixtures, water tank removal and cleaning.
all in so far about $25K on the refit/refurb first year was 10K just to make the boat safe and operational. and I know the boats systems better than If I had bought something more turn key.
Does not include storage, slip, insurance or other yearly operating costs.
Do you want to sail now or sail later. do you have the skills and time to do the work yourself. If you have to pay yard rates to do any work, you will need some deeeeep pockets. All project boats are different. All boat projects take longer than you think.
I would 100% do it again.
Foolserrand376@reddit
MildlyAgitatedBovine@reddit
I just saw the parallel universe version of this conversation in /r/motorcycles: "you wanna ride or be an amateur part time mechanic?"
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance
MildlyAgitatedBovine@reddit
You don't need to spend $80 on a fork tube shimz just use the darn can!
Darkwaxellence@reddit
Leaving a boat sit is always bad, not always as bad as Wind Hippie and sometimes worse. When you go through boatyards and see old boats dirty and rotting, do not look at them as options. These are projects that some one else already gave up on for time/money/knowledge. My junk boat was stilling floating when I found it so at least one thing was good. My wife and I bought a functional trailer sailer and sailed it with very little money invested and not that much work to get it sailing. Living near a large river we were able to have it at a marina and sail it multiple time a week through the summer. I highly recommend whatever boat you buy, make sure you can have the time and availability to sail it. Don't dock it a 2 hour drive from your house. After having the 23' and taking it on some weekend 'campouts' we decided we could maybe just live on the water. We found a boat abandoned and set up a deal to have it towed to a trailer on land where we could work on it. It was 15 minute drive from my house. No power or water but it was basically a free place to store and work on the boat. We spent 2 years and about 25k rebuilding bulkheads, all new thru-hulls, recore the cockpit, all new portholes and hatches, all new wiring, new plumbing, rebed the engine, new propshaft, strut, a full bottom job (only a few blisters) and other stuff I can't remember. Everything needed to get back on the water move in and head south. After another 10k of work and almost 2,000 nautical miles we made it down the river, across the gulf, through the keys and made it to Stuart, FL before our original engine died. Spent 6 months working to save for an engine, a few months doing the swap myself, and now we're back to being mobile but have basically no money. Will save up for the next adventure this Fall.
How much did it cost? Everything. How much did I learn, all of it and still learning. Was it worth it. Absolutely. I Love sailing. Like I really Love it. I'm working a crap job right now but only because I know I get to go sailing again soon.
It's your boat, do what you want with it. Good luck.
Jakery24@reddit
The first boat I looked (Catalina 36) at was very rough and needed tons of work including interior wood work. The owner kept saying over and over “this is all easy work” but I didn’t know where to begin. I ended up buying a turn key Catalina 36 and now 3 years later I understand what he was saying, most of the work was easy but not for a novice. My advice as a zero experience 40y/o getting aggressively into sailing. Buy a boat that has available manuals / parts and community support. I had so many questions that barely got answers in the beginning. And that’s with the most common sailboat made. I couldn’t imagine working on a Unknown boat without knowledge and without a community.
Federal_Cobbler6647@reddit
Always get most expensive boat you can afford (expensive in this as best possible condition).
And this is coming from someone who has bought two cheap boats. In both I would have been sailing long time ago with less money spent if I had bought one that is already sorted.
Lord-of_the-files@reddit
When you spend money on a boat, you never get it back in the selling price.
So the smart thing to do is to buy a boat where somebody else has put in all the work and money already.
The only time I would consider a fixer upper to be a good idea is if it's got some scary problem with e.g. the engine that you know you can fix for pennies, and which scares off the other buyers. A niche case.
Potential_Lie2302@reddit
Sailboats require a lot of work/time. Even the ones in pretty good shape require time. There are tons of derelict boats where owners had intentions of fixing them up and then reality sank in.
alex1033@reddit
I didn't catch - you want to go sailing on a budget or you want to enroll yourself into a 3-5 year restoration project on a huge budget?
IvorTheEngine@reddit
Don't buy a boat until you're sure that you'll use it enough to justify the annual cost.
Book a few courses, rent boats, crew for other people, and keep track of how many days a year you could be sailing. If you have a job (and a family), you probably don't have enough free time for sailing to justify owning a boat.
REDDITSHITLORD@reddit
Jesus, I can SMELL that boat.
Boats in that condition are generally free. the smell of oil is really hard to get out of the boat when that happens. In her case,she's lucky that it isn't a complicated interior, so it's fairly easy to clean.
If you're not trying to cross an option immediately, I would recommend an old Catalina 25 and start weekending.
Propaani@reddit
Get one you can sail. Make a note of what you like and/or dislike about it when you grow out of it. Optional: if you have space/time/resources get another project boat to tinker with and smooth the edges your running sailing boat lacks.
Frank_Scouter@reddit
A fixer-upper gets new problems faster than you can fix them.
User42wp@reddit
After I fixed/replaced various systems of my old boat I knew it inside and out. It becomes easier to recognize what’s going on when you hear a new sound for example. Less hunting around to diagnose problems. That being said, of course I would have rather had a nicer boat with fewer problems
Mehfisto666@reddit
I think it depends a lot on size and price.
You can get a 28 feeter for less than 10k and a 34ft for 20k in good sailing conditions. A project boat will cost you just as much in materials and take a year of costant work to get to the same results. Just think of what batteries, instruments, sails, windows cost. And that's without getting into rigging and engine.
Every boat you buy will need enough work as it is.
Now, if you can get a 40ft with at least something salvageable for almost free, and you have the space and time and will to take on the project knowing you won't be sailing it anytime soon... Then maaaaybe...
Some sail em some nail em.
Look up the old videos/livestream of sailingzingaro yt channel he's the goat for this kind of stuff