How well-known is the Serbian anti-fascist heroine Lepa Radic in your country? Does your country have such heroines known for their bravery & loyalty during WW2?
Posted by Substratas@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 205 comments
M-CH_@reddit
In Poland I have one on both sides of my family.
ThePurpleKing159@reddit
Ask a teen in Croatia and they will say the men hanging her were hero's. Croatias youth is so corrupted with nazi propaganda.
molindevent@reddit
Eh at least Croatia actually fought on the Axis side. Here you’ve got kids unironically falling for Nazi propaganda even though their own grandparents probably ended up in camps
atzitzi@reddit
Yeah "some kids" is understood but "ask any kid" is a different story
molindevent@reddit
Yeah, I didn’t say "some". Obviously not every teenager is a neo-Nazi but "ask any kid" feels broadly applicable here too. I don’t really think it’s that different from Croatia. If anything, it just comes off as even more inconsistent or illogical
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
Of course is different regarding this topic, and I honestly can’t understand how you could possibly equate it.
molindevent@reddit
Cheers!
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
while chetniks were traitors and war criminals they cant be equated nor compared to ustase who run a state organized extermination machine and racial laws for their minorities.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Ah, yes; the četnik apologist is here.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
Literally: “ chetniks were traitors and war criminals”
CataphractBunny@reddit
Literally couldn't say that without mentioing the other idiots. Play those games with someone else.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
By objective facts they aren’t really comparable, it doesn’t even make sense to group them as monolith.
They are still war criminals and traitors
CataphractBunny@reddit
Not comparable? They're exactly the same.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
Only in Croatian mythomania. Grouping them as monolithic is already wrong since they never had a unified structure, commando chain or shared ideology among themself.
This ahistorical thinking is rooted in state sponsored revisionism.
Historical revisionism in Croatia has recently drawn international criticism, for example in a report edited by William Echikson as part of the “Holocaust Remembrance Project: How European Countries Treat Their Wartime Past”, published by the Institute for Jewish Policy Research in January 2019. One of its key findings is that revisionism is worst in new Central European member states – Poland, Hungary, Croatia and Lithuania. […] Driven by feelings of victimhood and fears of accepting refugees, and often run by nationalist autocratic governments, these countries have received red cards for revisionism
I can link you academic works on this topic if u have academic access to published material.
https://archive.jpr.org.uk/object-2856
CataphractBunny@reddit
Only in četnik apologist mythomania.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
i guess the papers that would prove this are in the vatican and only croats have access to them.
instead of writing nonsense you could try to share some actual sources for ur claim like i do.
oh wait ...
CataphractBunny@reddit
I guess mentaly gymnastics is all you have.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
so you made it up, nothing suprising.
Just look the comment section. Not a single croat can name a single policy that was targeting ethnic croats, absolutly beautyful to observe how all you just go silent once you scratch the surface of ur claim.
and the rest contnues in a rather infatil manner. (like you)
Gloomy-Statement-193@reddit
evil person let's call him Bob with given power commits crime on another level
evil person let's call him Tim is not given power and still commits crimes but on a smaller scale
Bob is more evil than Tim (your logic)
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
they shouldnt be compared at all but if you want some academic research on this topic i can share you some.
Chetniks werent seeing themself as a group like people group them today, you had many indepedent formations with different ideologies. Its a big misconception.
Gloomy-Statement-193@reddit
chetniks weren't seeing anything as they were busy being militia for Germans and Italians, and were also busy killing Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians and even Serbs who according to them were traitors and had to be slaughtered with knife. They also kept partisans away so their friends ustashe could continue with their genocide.
Garofalin@reddit
Correct cause chetniks had to wait 45 years for their turn.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
Mostly in ur heads, but I guess they never left there. Dangerous rhetoric, or do you claim the ustase also came back ?
Let me guess, no ;)
Garofalin@reddit
45 years later, while ustashe were traitors and war criminals they cant be equated nor compared to chetniks who run a state organized extermination machine and racial laws for their minorities.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
lmao your literally equating them, and i can link you many works if you wanna understand why you do that. Its not rooted in historical truth but revisionism. Good source:
War for memory Croatian politics of the past between revisionism and European standards
Radonić, Ljiljana
but lets no fully embarass you show me please state run and organized extermination camps and racial laws for their minorities. camps comparable to Jasenovac or racial laws for Croats
In addition, they had to wear a Star of David, Serbs a blue armband with a “P” for “Pravoslavac” (Orthodox person). Orthodox persons, as well as Jews, were denied access to many public places, such as sidewalks, offices, shops, restaurants, public transport and life in many parts of Zagreb (see Deschner 2012). Also, many of them were dismissed from their jobs and arrested, the Cyrillic scripture banned (see Dedijer 2011). Orthodox churches became Catholic or transformed into department stores, slaughterhouses, public toilets, stables, prisons, execution sites or completely destroyed. If Serbian children were still very small and without parents - for example, through murder or deportation of their parents - they were partly taken in by the Croatian Caritas to re-educate them
you would be ashamed to even try to draw such parallels, but ur not to blame. Chetniks and Ustase can never be compared, maybe you will realize that once or future generations will unpack this national trauma.
Garofalin@reddit
First, should you decide to pursue this discussion further, get off your high horse.
Second, I am comparing both ultra-nationalistic ideologies because they have much more similarities than divergent points.
Finally, chetniks committed atrocities across Croatia and BiH during the agression in the nineties. For example, in the city of Doboj, it was a very, well-known fact that serbian authorities that seized the control, forced non-Serb population to wear a white ribbon on their sleeve.
The verdict issued today, however, found Stanišić and Simatović guilty for the crimes committed in Bijeljina, Zvornik, Doboj, Trnovo, Bosanski Šamac and Sanski Most. [Source] (https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/05/bosnia-and-herzegovina-war-crimes-convictions-a-historic-moment-for-international-justice/)
So, it is apparent and logical that neither chauvinistic pigs, hiding behind empty promises of increasing the lebensraum, can be justified for their actions. Unless of course, one prefers to avoid facing the hard, cold facts.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
Nope still very different, even from the ideologies part since grouping them makes no sense and is ahistorical. They were never a monolith like you want to present them.
And there were no Chetniks in the 90s… you must be trolling or this is some sort of diaspora delusion.
Once again if u wanna understand why you draw this parallels that don’t exist I already linked u some academic work.
RadiantMarsupial-@reddit
srpska logika 😬
CataphractBunny@reddit
Bro is larping hard. XD
svarga108@reddit
Oh, look, a nazi
RadiantMarsupial-@reddit
oh look an idiot ☝️
svarga108@reddit
Oh look a blocked nazi
molindevent@reddit
Just because they were less successful doesn’t make them better lol
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
it makes them just absolutly different, even grouping them into one group as "chetniks" is ahistorical but w/e i guess.
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
Just stop
Mission_Comedian5585@reddit
The nazis lit had the untermensch posters for us. And now dumbasses support the idiology 😭
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
But we are talking about “celebrating” them, and you can’t possibly equate extent of it in Serbia and Croatia.
You can hear za dom spremni incidents almost daily.
Gloomy-Statement-193@reddit
ZDS comment on facebook can get you 700 euros fine.
In public anything to do with ustashe - 2000-4000ish euros fine
Just nazi salute without any other context - 2000 euros fine
What are the fines or reprecutions for doing something similar in Serbia? Ah, of course, zero.
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
Why would the Serbs do ustashe salute.
But you do tho.
From university students, high school graduates, concerts etc..
People and kids are doing them in public and taking videos and photos of themselves doing it, so maybe your fines mean shit.
Gloomy-Statement-193@reddit
One country is punishing fascist larping, the other one does not, end of discussion
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
One country is actually doing it on a much bigger scale, that makes it incomparable really.
End of discussion.
Gloomy-Statement-193@reddit
2 anrifasisticka pokreta hahaha nemas pravo glasa o ovoj temi
Mission_Comedian5585@reddit
Xd, if your laws are just funny words on paper, what good does it do? Did everyone from the thomson concert that did the salute get a fine? And if so, were they fined for each salute? We also have many many laws on paper, they dont mean much if noone upholds them.
On the other side youd probably get beaten up if you said zds in public, so theres that.
Mission_Comedian5585@reddit
Same as any slav country, my brother youre celebrating your wanna be executioner? What the fuck?
Mission_Comedian5585@reddit
Nono, im not equating them. Im just saying that im SO weirded out when one of us is a neo nazi. We mostly fought against them, they fucked us, and like i said they had huge propaganda campaigns depicting us as lower life forms. And now you support that ideology? Leaves me scratching my head honestly.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Croatia fought on the Allied side. You seem to have forgotten that little nugget of information.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Croatia did not fight on the Axis side. It was occupied and turned into a puppet state.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
Why did the poor Croats welcome Nazis with flowers in Zagreb then???
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Again with this bullshit. Few hundreds of people with flowers dont speak for entire nation. Why did 50 000 of Zagreb citizens participated in struggle for national liberation???
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
That was entire Zagreb not hundreds of people
You actually believe that Communist nonsense
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
lmao, and how did you come to that conclusion?
Well considering that communists were ones who actually defeated the Nazis, maybe they know where did they came from mor than you do.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
Because Tito and his communists killed thousands of people and lied for over 50 years our faces in the name of brotherhood and unity why would I believe anything they say
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Hmm, this sounds like a literal ustaše propaganda to me. Word for word.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
So called leftist errors? Purges in Serbia in 1944-1945?
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
What about them?
You are the one spreading ustaše propaganda.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
Disgusting
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Ustaše propaganda about the communists? It is.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
The only fascist is you
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
What fascist ideas did I express?
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
Supporting evil communists who drank Serbian blood is pretty fascist it's like supporting usraše
phantoms1n@reddit
Ya no.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
???
phantoms1n@reddit
Ne seri.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
Tko sere
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
So supporting people who defeated fascists is fascism?
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
They just replaced another fascism with other fascism
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Fascism in which mass genocide stopped and people of all ethnicities had same rights?
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
Ethnic Hungarians, Germans and Italians didn't have rights
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Ethnic Hungarians did not have rights??? Some of them were in the leadership of Vojvodina.
Italians and Germans were deported because of the collaboration with fascist, but that can hardly be considered fascism.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
Civilians that had nothing to do with collaboration were brutally murdered
Stop defending partisans and their crimes
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Let me get this straight. You blame all the Croats for ustaše regime, even tho it was brought by the Germans and Croatian Partisans defeated it, but you draw the line at German civilians, because they are innocent?
Im not defending their crimes, you are just changing the topic every comment. Partisans were both Serbs and Croats (and other nationalities) and while they did commit some crimes (like every WWII participant), it was nowhere close to crimes of fascism.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
200,000 croats in Nazi armies is not a small number
Who were majority Serbian
Germans are an alright nation unlike Croats
Partisans were both Serbs and croats
Until 1943 almost all were Montenegrins or Serbs former ustaše started massively joining because they knew they would lose
Yes it was
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
And millions in Wermacht and Italian army is a small number???
No, in 1945 when Ustaše regime got defeated most of the Partisans in Croatia were Croats.
What the fuck, lol? Germans CREATED the NDH.
Majority, but not almost all. Also in 1943 there was still 2 more years of fighting to be done, so its not like Partisans did not need all those new fighters to win.
How?
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
But a difference is that they actually apologised for everything they did and want to move on unlike Croatian scum who want to kill another 1,5 million Serbs
Former ustaše defeating ustaše who were later amnestied
It was almost all
Because I said so
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
You are literally making all of that up, lol.
Ustaše were amnestied? So you are talking about partisans killing thousands of people at the end of the war...who do you think they were killing? Also no, not former Ustaše, you are making shit up again.
No, it was not.
But who are you?
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
They killed Chetnik falcons tore hearts of inocent Serbian children
Yes it was
I'm a Serb and smart
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Oh ok, lol.
Nah.
I think at least one of those statements is false, if not both of them.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
Do your research................
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Im sorry, maybe if you add more dots I will believe you.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
I added enough dots stop coping
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
I need one for every Serbian child that communists ate.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
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18ponosansrbin04@reddit
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
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
No you are. Equalising croatian animals with Serbs
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Calling another nation, especially nation so similar to you, animals makes you a fascist scum and I will equate you to similar scum.
18ponosansrbin04@reddit
That was entire Zagreb not hundreds of people
molindevent@reddit
From what I understand, the NDH had significantly more formal autonomy as a puppet state of Nazi Germany, including running its own administrative structures and concentration camps. The Government of National Salvation under Milan Nedić in occupied Serbia, on the other hand, was more directly under German military administration and had less independent state capacity, though it still collaborated with the occupation authorities
In Croatia, there is at least a clear formal legal stance against Ustaša symbols, with their use prohibited by law. In Serbia, there is ongoing public debate and occasional political sympathy toward the rehabilitation of Nedić, which is why the situation here arguably looks even worse
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
This the truth for comparison between NDH and occupied Serbia. But it still does not change the fact that NDH did not have legitimacy to represent Croatia and its not accurate to say that Croatia was fighting on the Axis side.
molindevent@reddit
Fair enough. My bad
venit_enim_ad_me@reddit
I mean it wasn't exactly autonomous, but it was more autonomous than Nedić's Serbia which was both defacto and dejure a military protectorate ruled by German Military Commander.
The people who lived in NDH didn't pick Croatian Party of Rights to lead them, but Croatian Party of Rights's genocide was something that wasn't forced upon them by Germans or Italians, on the contrary, Germans and Italians mostly saw it as a big threat to the stability of their occupation.
Italians eventually forced ustaše to close up camps like Jadovno, due to stability issues, and huge influx of bodies poisoning watter supply.
Croatia's formal legal stance is that you are allowed to freely use Ustaša symbolism, if you are trying to commemorate neonazi militias from 1990s.
In practice, for all intents and purposes, it is legal, because you can always defend yourself by saying you didn't refer to Croatian Party of Rights from 1940s but the one from 1990s; but in reality, both parties had exact same ideology
Training_Shine_111@reddit
This part has amazed me. As a black man, I've only have good experiences in Serbia. But the few times I dealt with racist remarks and attitudes, it was from young guys doing stupid things like Nazi saluting. I couldn't even be offended, it's rather sad what some young men are becoming.
molindevent@reddit
I think, for what it’s worth, Serbs (especially older generations) aren’t particularly racist toward Black people
The kids doing Nazi salutes or similar stuff are mostly just copying American or Western online trends and the same alt-right content that radicalizes people elsewhere
There is definitely racism in Serbia, especially toward Romani people and Muslims but when it comes to Black people specifically, Serbia is probably among the less racist countries in Europe
Training_Shine_111@reddit
That's exactly my experience indeed. I even have to check my wife and some friends sometimes when they make certain comments about Romani people and Muslims.
molindevent@reddit
Hahah all Europeans are like this. We all love to give Americans shit for everything but we’ve got all the same problems
Like I don’t mean to minimize what Black people go through in America but at least they tend to live in houses or apartment buildings, not literal shanty towns made out of cardboard boxes like the Romani do. Same goes for illegal immigrants
While ICE is horrible, at least a lot of people also clearly oppose it. You’d be hard-pressed to find a European who doesn’t support sinking the boats with the refugees still in them
Double-Aide-6711@reddit
It’s not a choice, man, to live in a slum. It’s poverty, social exclusion, and also ethnicity that plays a role. I have someone close to me who lived in the slums of Belgrade and Zaječar for several weeks because she couldn’t find an apartment to rent at an affordable price. She had friends of friends who told her that the Roma people there would help her.
And believe me, almost none of these people could find stable work: nobody wanted to hire them. Most of them worked in markets, at the pazar, selling found or second-hand items, and did undeclared seasonal jobs. Some saved money to build houses, but for the most part people were just trying to survive with what they had.
And you also had some families living in toxic family environments, with terrible consequences linked to poverty and family toxicity: poorly raised children committing crimes that were completely normalized by those around them.
It’s not easy when you look homeless because of poverty and you’re trying to find work as a Roma person. If you weren’t born into the right family.
molindevent@reddit
I see you deleted your profile? But I definitely agree with you on this one. My point was that the US government at least invested in public housing and similar programs. Our governments never really did that. Even under communism, Roma communities were absolutely neglected
Gloomy-Statement-193@reddit
The irony is that nazis were enemies to both Slavs and black people
mrsimud@reddit
WW2 in Yugoslavia was complex. She was a Yugoslav partisan, under the command of Tito. Serbian fascist were also fighting against her. Literally in the battle of Neretva, chetnik serbs from Lika, northern Bosnia, northern Dalmatia, Herzegovina and Montenegro were part of axis forces that fought against her units.
EbbPlane1749@reddit
they were lol, you think serbs were heroes?
ThePurpleKing159@reddit
Isnt Kosovo a part of Serbia?
absurd_whale@reddit
I mean that's a made up story by commies like pavlik morozov or kosmadevyanova for swamp people. Nothing to defend Nazi ideology or gloryfying killing the innocent. But the whole idea of communist story heroes is ridiculous.
ThePurpleKing159@reddit
Please explain whats a made up story? Lepa Radic?
absurd_whale@reddit
I have no idea about her, but I gave you example of typical "child hero" by communist regime. Pavlik Morozov as example. Russians dying to believe that's true even proofs already given after USSR collapse.
RadiantMarsupial-@reddit
zamisli dati zivot koji još nije niti počeo "za narod" da bi ovakvi jazavci postojali i negirali heroizam i žrtvu. Pa ne bih za balkanjerose dao dva usmrđena komada špeka a ne život....
atzitzi@reddit
Seriously?
tejanaqkilica@reddit
Plenty, this is one of them. Got wounded finding the Germans, and was burned alive in the end.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liri_Gero
Early_Occasion_5007@reddit
A great tragedy for such a young life. What ideology can do.
svarga108@reddit
She was defending her country from the ocupators indulged in very evil ideology. She is the immortal hero.
Besrax@reddit
That's true, but from today's perspective, her ideology wasn't exactly peaceful either. Millions and millions of people have suffered and died because of communism.
Particular-Test-1687@reddit
People tend to conflate antifascism (one of the greatest achievements of humankind) with communism (an ideology).
It’s a coincidence (?) that antifascists in eastern Europe were mainly communists.
Smrt fašizmu, sloboda narodu!
absurd_whale@reddit
Why you remove your comment little bolding lenin?
Particular-Test-1687@reddit
Fuck off again, nazi scum
absurd_whale@reddit
Yeah gulags was nice, literally we speaking about Holocaust because Nazi lost, and we ok with gulag because soviet was one of the winners . Literally the approach was the same
kretenizam@reddit
Crazy you can have all of the knowledge in the world at your fingertips and still be this stupid. And publicly at that.
crossfire_hurricanes@reddit
partisans weren’t necessarily communist, rather anti fascists. Even many who were like our famous poet partisan is speculated to be executed with a convenient story because he had strong principles that the commies didn’t wanna deal with after they take power.
The facts are no other ideology is comparable with exceptionalist racism, ableism, eugenics that racism incorporates in its core. This is not just a power hungry incompetent psycho comes to power type of story. He can come to power in any system. What if we counted the casualties of capitalists, the wars for oil and minerals, the workplace accidents of the overworked, the genocides for strategic positions, the pedophile islands of the elites…
molindevent@reddit
Sure, not every Partisan was necessarily a committed communist but Lepa Radić absolutely was.
svarga108@reddit
First, pre-war communists in Kingdom of Yugoslavia were idealistic people wanting justice. (The opportunists came later, after victory, and didn’t exactly like the war heroes).
Second, in that situation (foreign force ocupation, targeting your people for extermination) you only have two choices, no matter the ideology: do nothing and possibly die in some exterminatin camp, or fight and possibly die like her.
Besrax@reddit
That's why I said that it was a valid viewpoint back then. They were indeed idealistic (maybe even naive) and considering the circumstances, their actions were mostly understandable. But today we can see the bigger picture with regard to the communist ideology, and it's not pretty.
svarga108@reddit
Sorry, I didn’t answer on “naive”. Maybe, but they suceeded. They won and they liberated our country by themselves, which is very important.
svarga108@reddit
We also see a bigger picture with regard to the imperialists, and it’s not pretty either. On the contrary. Especially at this very moment.
Besrax@reddit
I don't think that many people in the Balkans glorify imperialism. On the other hand, there are quite a few people still talking fondly of communism.
svarga108@reddit
Probably some very old grandfathers;)
But who in his right mind would glorify imperialism?
Early_Occasion_5007@reddit
Bullshit.
svarga108@reddit
What?!? Oh my. Block.
svarga108@reddit
What?!? Are you a nazi or what? In any case, block.
cyclopsontrampoline@reddit
Nada Dimić
CataphractBunny@reddit
A true heroine as well. Helped organize the Sisak Partisan Detachment in June 1941, starting the armed resistance in Croatia.
Fast-Information-314@reddit
Hero! ❤️ 💙 💜
m_handzhiev@reddit
anti-fascist is bolshevik
__Rosso__@reddit
Just say you love Hitler, this dog-whistle makes you look more pathetic.
Then again, any Nazi is pathetic by default so I guess it checks out.
m_handzhiev@reddit
originalno_ime@reddit
Not just bolshevik, any kind of marxism, including cultural marxism ( liberalism, progressivism ).
Self-Bitter@reddit
Did your grandpa became rich during ww2 by any chance?
venit_enim_ad_me@reddit
He probably just picked up jewish gold teeth
Substratas@reddit (OP)
https://i.redd.it/lgzylkfkzf3h1.gif
Matija_sjekira@reddit
It was nice to see this posted by an Albanian. Peace!
AgarthaKing@reddit
Bitch
Ok-Zookeepergame-752@reddit
Im older and we did learn about her in school, but Milunka Savić was far more known, probably because her story is more interesting.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Of course we have. Stjepan Filipović moments before being hanged by the Nazis and Četniks:
sfsn
CataphractBunny@reddit
Another badass is Rade Končar.
Shot by the Italians after being put on trial where he told the judges "I neither ask for mercy, nor would I show it". To the Italians that tied him up and lined him against a wall to shoot him in the back: "Shoot me in the chest, you cowards".
sfsn
CataphractBunny@reddit
Sisters Rajka and Zdenka Baković who operated the family tobacco shop in Zagreb, and served as a communication hub for the Croatian resistance. They were eventually arrested and brutally tortured for several days by the Ustaše agents. These bastard traitors were trying to get the sisters to talk, and bring down the entire resistance network.
Rajka was so badly tortured that she died of injuries in a hospital where she was brought half dead already. On the morning of December 25, 1941 Zdenka jumped from a third storey window of the Ustaše building she was being held in. She died on the spot.
The sisters never talked.
Rajka on the left.
sfsn
Ok_Buffalo_1820@reddit
The most popular anti-racist heroine in Germany is probably Sophie Scholl, an anti-Nazi resistance fighter and member of the student group "White Rose," who was executed in 1943 at the age of 21 for distributing anti-regime leaflets at the University of Munich.
RustCohle_23@reddit
Not during WW2 but Mara Buneva.
determine96@reddit
Violeta Yakova too fall in the category I think.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
from Austria Diana Budisavljevic, saved around 10.000 serbian kids from extermination
Distinct-Quote4088@reddit
How heroic... shes dead without kids. Being heroic is being a genetic dead end?
FilipAdzic97@reddit
How many kids is she supposed to have at 17 years old in the bloodiest conflict in human history?
Distinct-Quote4088@reddit
Then the challenge is not being dead at 17... and this one failed it
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
Not as well known as Serbian Nazi collaborators like Nedic or Mihailovic
svarga108@reddit
Oh my. Here we go again:
Serbia: subjected to direct Axis military occupation, with fierce resistance.
Croatia: Axis puppet “independent” state that committed mass genocide against Serbs, Jews, and Roma.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
And Croatia did not have fierece resistance? Serbian collaborators did not commit mass genocide against Jews and Roma?
venit_enim_ad_me@reddit
Not really, the genocide was mostly committed by German nazis and Croatian nationalists, even in Serbia.
By the time SDS was formed, most of Jews have long been killed.
The role of SDS and SDK was to aid German authorities in repression over other Serbs, not to conduct genocide. They were used to massacre other Serbs mostly.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Croatian nationalists in Serbia? Lol.
No, Serbian collaborators definitely participated in the Holocaust. After that they participated in massacres against the Serbs (which of course Ustaše were doing to patriotic Croats too).
Stverghame@reddit
I hope you're aware that NDH was in Zemun, right next to Belgrade?
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Well thats not Serbia then, Im talking about what was Serbia back then.
Stverghame@reddit
Serbs live there, it is part of Serbia now. You were in our territory, occupying it and killing people in it. No mental gymnastics, please.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
You? Who are you talking to?
Zemun was previously part of Austria-Hungary. It was not part of Serbia back then. And stop changing the topic.
Stverghame@reddit
Prior to Nazi-Croatian occupation, it was Kingdom of Yugoslavia, not Austria-Hungary. You suck at chronology, eh?
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Lol, so it was Kingdom of Yugoslavia and before that Austria-Hunary. When was it Serbia? Seems like you suck at basic reading skills.
Stverghame@reddit
NDH occupied a territory of Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Who the hell cares what it was prior to that? It is like saying that Bosnian war territory changes were changes in Roman Empire, just because Roman Empire stood there once. What kind of logic is that?
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Yes, Yugoslavia, not Serbia. Point is that it was not part of Kingdom of Serbia, thats why it became part of NDH. So when we refer to Serbia in context of WWII, we talk about territory that was part of the Serbia before Yugoslavia existence.
So my point is this: Croatian nationalists could not commit crimes in Serbia, because they were not in Serbia. Zemun was not occupied by NDH anymore than any other part of NDH since it was all really a German occupation. But in Serbia, as in territory that use to be part of Serbian state before creation of Yugoslavia, Serbian collaborators took part in the Holocaust.
Stverghame@reddit
Part of Yugoslavia that was majority Serbian ethnically.
As for the second part - ustaša trying to whitewash ustašluk by equating two drastically different situations, nothing new. I end my case here.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
So what?
Your mother is ustaša. Yes, you Nazi collaborators all the same to me. You lost your case in 1945.
svarga108@reddit
Lol to you. Independent Croatia was spreading all the way to Belgrade suburbs.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
What to me?
Ok, so what? What comment are you reacting to?
svarga108@reddit
In 1941 85% of Partisans were Serbs. (For those 11% of Croat Partisans in that year all the resoect).
Croats massively joined Partisans after the turning point 1943 and especially in 1944.
No, what happened in OCCUPIED Serbia and comanded by German Nazies (and NDH in the case of Staro Sajmište) is not even comparable with massive genocide in “Independent Croatia”. You can google it yourself.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Yes, in 1941. The turning point was 1943. But even before that there were tens of thousands of Croats involved in resistance movements either in Partisans of underground resistance in Split in Zagreb. So there was a massive Croatian resistance.
NDH was alos OCCUPIED. And massive genocide against Jews and Romas was done with willing participation of Serbian collaborators. You can google that for yourself.
svarga108@reddit
I did. At the beginig of the war there were around 2.000-3000 communist illegals, and number increased through the years.
Croatia and Serbia received drastically different treatment.
Here: Nazi Germany granted the NDH its own diplomatic corps, state institutions, and racial laws, viewing the Ustaša as ideological partners. In contrast, Germany dismantled the Serbian state, stripped it of regions like Vojvodina and Kosovo, and placed a German Military Commander in absolute control of what remained.
In the NDH, the Ustaša regime independently ran its own concentration camps, most notably Jasenovac, executing its own systematic genocide against Serbs, Jews, and Roma. In Serbia, the Holocaust was organized and executed directly by the German military and SS via camps like Sajmište, using local collaborationist police primarily to round up victims.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Ok, great.
Nazis did not see Ustaše as partners.
Yes, there were differences. But a) Croats had mass resistance movement and b) Serbs did participated in the Holocaust. So while there were differences at the beginning based on position that these nations had in kingdom of Yugoslavia, during the war difference only got smaller. Both nations were occupied (you also need to remember that large parts of Croats were not even included in NDH but directly occupied by Italians) and both defeated the occupation together.
svarga108@reddit
Of course Nazis did not see Ustaše as real, equal partners (they were Slavic “untermensch” after all) but rather like useful idiots who were “rewarded” with independency for their loyalty. How long would it last? Luckilly we never learned.
I agree with other comment - spare us from mental gymnastics, please. I am direct descendant of Serb Partisans from Croatia. Tell your fairy tales to someone else.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
But we did saw. They were not really independent. German army was operating on their territory murdering their citizens without a supervision, Germans living in NDH were exempt from the NDH laws, NDH economy was exploited by the Germans.
I am descendant of Partisans too. Yugoslav Partisans. Maybe you are coming from strange faction of Partisans that was dividing the movement to Serb, Croat and Muslim Partisans, but my ancestors were fighting side by side with Serbs and never had urge to blame them for Ljotic, Nedic, Mihajlovic etc.
Stverghame@reddit
With those two flags in your flair, you shouldn't only shut up, you should double shut the fuck up.
Reasonable-Class3728@reddit
There was a lot of heroeins in USSR. Just a couple of famous examples:
Любовь Шевцова
Зоя Космодемьянская
Night Witches - female military aviators.
molindevent@reddit
I wouldn’t say she’s particularly well-known in Serbia, let alone in other countries
Citaku357@reddit
Why not? She is definitely a badass
HumanMan00@reddit
Well older gen know her but a lot of ex Yu countries avoid Yugoslav history bcs it might lead to uncomfortable questions like:
Why did we break up?
Was it a smart decision?
It also might lead to people having nice feelings about each other.
Im a pro Yu guy but i dont push it everywhere. I found that if I say anything positve about Yugoslavia ppl jump on my back as if i swore at their mother.
Emotional_Story9702@reddit
And if you are pro-Yu, they’ll also call you a communist, as if those two things automatically go hand in hand.
HumanMan00@reddit
Yup with one correction - there are two varients:
As if Yugoslavia was an idea based on one political idea and as if the modern politicians werent litteraly raised on SFRJ school of politics.
molindevent@reddit
The problem is Serbian history education is heavily shaped by historical revisionism and Chetnik rehabilitation these days so a lot of that stuff barely gets covered properly. I’ve literally had teachers blame the Šumarice massacre on the Partisans lol
At the same time, they also avoid talking about actual Partisan crimes like the Bar massacre or what happened to the Donauschwaben
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
She was from Bosnia..
phantoms1n@reddit
Someone doesn't understand the difference between region and ethnicity
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Not me. I didn't say she's Bosniak. For every dumbass that downvoted, let me explain: she is not from Serbia hence she's not that known in Serbia. She's probably more known in Bosnia, amongst Bosnian Serbs. Get it?
phantoms1n@reddit
She's known all over ex YU, the problem lies in what happened after the war in the 90s. The schools in Serbia and Croatia diminished and demonized the Partizans. For instance, there was a beautiful Partizan graveyard/memorial in Mostar that was absolutely beautiful to walk through in the 80s and today its desecrated with Nazi symbols and left to rot.
svarga108@reddit
I allready saw noumerous posts about her which tried to hide the fact that she was ethnic Serb from Bosnia.
atzitzi@reddit
Women didn't have the recognition they deserved but lately this is turning around. Thanks to reddit I've read about this heroine before.
crossfire_hurricanes@reddit
we have someone described as trans heroine, famous 17y.o. Albanian partisan and 6 other women national heroes yet only men in the hymn
ResolutionMaterial90@reddit
Why are go so scared to say COMMUNIST
yes most anti nazis were commies. And yes commies fucked em up in the end not America
Lepa Svetozara Radić was a Yugoslav Partisan and communist of Bosnian Serb origin who was posthumously awarded the Order of the People's Hero in 1951
no1rezefan@reddit
nah. allies from south, soviets from east and north, germans from west, 17 million population with no significant industry. Turkey's total annihilation would be inevitable if we were in ww2
DaliVinciBey@reddit
and frankly, that's what a good %60 of people here want
Noforeigners2811@reddit
Dude we have hundreds of anti fascit heroes and heroins that defied and fought the fascists to their last drop of blood, why ask about a serbian one?
Youve got hundreds that defied the orders of our traitorous king to surrender and fought the italian fascist invasion even though they where outnumbered by the thousands. Youve got plenty of young boys and girls getting caught trying to organize resistance meetings and brigades and resisting torture until they died without selling out their comerades
venit_enim_ad_me@reddit
Why would I, among hundreds of anti-fascist heroes, ask about Albanian one? There were more albanians in the ballists than in the partisans.
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 3 of r/AskBalkans "No agenda pushing". We want this subreddit to be an inclusive space and no chauvinism, bigotry or insults towards national, ethnic, religious etc. group will be tolerated. Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
In any case, refrain from posting or commenting in such a manner.
Aggravating_Cut8216@reddit
Mara Josifoska, Ibe Palikuka, Vera Jocich, Elpida Karamandi. Most in their early 20s and killed in WW2
Haunting_Toe_7768@reddit
No, as a matter of fact we tend to worship fascists as of late
Ulovka-22@reddit
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
Most of modern day Serbs don't particulary care for the heroes of Partisan propaganda
Mediocre-Carpet-2327@reddit
Only a year older than my grandfather. He died last year at 99. Also a war veteran of Yugoslav partisans. Wounded twice during a war.
Gimmebiblio@reddit
I don't think she's very well known. I know her because I've watched many, many ww2 documentaries over the years. We have Iro Konstantopoulou.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iro_Konstantopoulou
Edit to add: in this Wikipedia article another heroine is mentioned, Lela Karayanni who was the great granddaughter of Laskarina Bouboulina, the hero of the Greek Independence.
lotzik@reddit
"37 days before the German occupying forces left Athens under the pressure of Greek resistance"
Όχι ας πούμε πως τους είχε ο Άξονας και η Ρωσία πίπα κώλο ολοταχώς προς το Βερολίνο, η Greek resistance τα έκανε όλα.
Ποιος πάει και γράφει τέτοιες πίπες απορώ.
GrogmarktheRag@reddit
Dude, you are simplifying it for no reason. Yes it was the Allies that were the main threat by autumn 1944 (both from East and West), however the Americans and British had just liberated Paris and the Soviets were still at the border with Poland (Auschwitz was discovered in January 1945). The Nazis thought it was still winnable but the resistances had dragged them into a war of attrition, so indeed they decided to withdraw to cut their losses and focus on the 2 main fronts, under resistance pressure. This didn't happen only in Greece but also in northern Italy, were Germans decided to make minimal efforts and most importantly in Albania and Yugoslavia, the only nations in WW2 to liberate themselves.
Hezzyo@reddit
Well.....its complicated
Cefalopodul@reddit
Why would she be known at all?
timisorean_02@reddit
In Romania, yeah, but I think she's known in former Yugoslavia.
Antique_Birthday6380@reddit
No i don’t think so.
kuzninskionrush@reddit
In Russia we have Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoya_Kosmodemyanskaya