Get an annual inspection in addition to a pre-buy when purchasing a plane?
Posted by PidgeyPotion@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 23 comments
I‘m no aircraft mechanic, and I don’t know what all is involved in a pre-buy or an annual, but could it be a good idea to just have one done instead of/in addition to a pre-buy when purchasing a plane, particularly one that is 50+ year old?
durrow@reddit
I have purchased more than dozen planes in my life, not tons but more than most. Always do a pre-buy. Never trust the last annual. After the new annual is complete take the A&P that did the work (IA if possible) on the flight with you, let him know you be doing that.
Other tips: Log books don't matter that are missing don't matter after 30+ years. Its the last couple decades that matter other than resale value. If its fabric realize it will cost you ten of thousands of dollars to replace it and plan on it replacing it ever 25 years. Cirrus chute repack is nothing on redoing a fabric airplane (I have owned many and will continue to purchase them - just know what you are getting into). Accident history isn't necessary a bad thing. A fuel truck smacks in the engine cowl and prop on the ramp at signature - the plane has a new engine, prop and front cowl courtesy of them - that is like winning a lotto ticket!
Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit
I didn't do a pre buy when I bought my Cherokee 180. But my dad owned a Cherokee 160 and the owner was OK with us looking it over. Plus the price of the plane didn't make sense to have a prebuy.
I've seen more than a few guys pay for a pre buy then be surprised at first annual. One had corrosion so bad the plane was totaled. A pre buy doesn't mean much to me unless you are VERY specific on what the pre buy is to check for. Specifics that first time owners probably don't know
ltcterry@reddit
A couple of years ago there was a local guy who did just this. Took it for his first annual a few months later. The A&P/IA showed him how he could poke his finger through the corroded metal in the belly under the battery. "This airplane will cost more to fix than you paid for it." It never flew again.
Had he gotten a solid pre-buy he would have saved $35,000. Not a good price decision.
JSTootell@reddit
Friend of mine bought a plane on trust with no inspection.
Plot twist: Happy ending.
I'm not suggesting it as a long term plane buying strategy though 😂
Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit
That was one of my concerns, battery box corrosion. And I could pull the Velcro from the baggage area myself and check it. I paid 33k. Had to install adsb. Service the stall switch. Repair a fuel sender float. And replace the oil screen housing as it was cracked and leaking oil. Sold it for 65k.
I've seen pre buys miss some pretty basic stuff. Maybe if it was a type I was unfamiliar with I'd get one. But a Cherokee for 33k that I had already had time working on, pass.
saml01@reddit
Many shops don't want to deal with savvy because savvys communication process is a pita.
Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit
It's tough for me to take the advice of a mechanic who has had zero time working professionally as a mechanic.
PidgeyPotion@reddit (OP)
A Cirrus is out of my price range in terms of purchase and maintenance. I’m contemplating a C172, Cherokee, Cheetah/Tiger (maybe an RV if I can find someone willing to work on experimentals, as I don’t know how to myself). Of course what you’re saying applies to virtually any plane purchase.
Ancient_Narwhal_9524@reddit
A pre-buy and an annual are 2 different things. Also depending on what you find in a pre-buy you might not even complete the sale.
It would be ok to do an annual after you buy the aircraft since it’s already at the shop.
theboomvang@reddit
Exactly how are they different?
FridayMcNight@reddit
An annual is defined and prescribed in the FARs and the aircraft and equipment maintenance documents. It has legally mandated procedures and inspections, and must be done (or at least supervised by) an A&P with Inspection Authorization, must be logged in the aircraft maintenance logs, and is required for airworthiness.
A pre-buy is just an idea: no standardized procedure, no mandatory inspections, no maintenance items, it's unrelated to airworthiness, and isn't required to be done by an FAA certified mechanic. It's just you asking another person (that you hope is knowledgeable and professional) to look at the airplane on your behalf to better inform your purchase decision. A pre-buy can overlap substantially with an annual, but you really need to work with your IA on that and clarify what they're doing in advance.
SSMDive@reddit
An annual has very specific requirements. An prebuy does not.
An annual is to see if the plane is airworthy. A prebuy is to see if it is a good deal. They are not exactly the same.
A plane can be in annual and be a horrible choice to buy. Say some corrosion is found… Not enough to be unairworthy, but enough that it would cost a ton to fix.
On the other hand a plane could be out of annual and be a great deal. Say a Cessna 180 that has been sitting in AZ for two years but they want 100k for it.
So what you want is a prebuy done by an IA that you can turn into an annual when you agree to buy it.
flyghu@reddit
Timing lined up for me. Plane was due for an annual. Seller paid for the annual which I did as an owner assist with my A&P. Got to see everything in detail and I got a plane with a fresh annual.
FridayMcNight@reddit
A pre-buy is whatever you want it to be. There is no standard. An annual is a set of inspections and maintenance items prescribed by the manufacturer (and any applicable ICAs). One has a script the IA legally has to follow, the other is up to you and the mechanic (which doesn't need to be an IA). A smart approach is to have the mechanic start inspecting the things that are mostly likely to be deal breakers, and proceed as long as they keep NOT finding any.
You don't want to keep paying for mechanic time and materials beyond the moment you find anything that would cause you to not buy it.
jaylw314@reddit
No, the annual is fraught with conflicts of interest. The pre buy inspection is your guy. The guy doing the annual is, to some degree, working for the current owner even if you're paying him.
saml01@reddit
if a mechanic is dumb enough to overlook stuff wrong during an annual in lieu of a prebuy during a sale, is that really someone you should be doing an inspection with?
Kermit-de-frog1@reddit
Ask for pre buy, with estimated annual cost before you button her up. Catches both sides and many will do it. Pre buy is all squawks , annual is keeping it in the air., No major squawks and you’re gonna buy it, follow on with new annual while they are there. Major squawks on pre buy , thanks but no thanks . At the end of the day api is still signing off on something , they won’t/shouldn’t sign unless it’s not a hazard .
Full disclosure though, my “pre buy” was getting the current owner to ferry it over a 1000nm to my locale. When he agreed without hesitation I figured I had Both a cool cat ( I did and he was awesome ) and a good. Plane ( I did, the annual a couple months after arrival was pristine) .
Based on my truly limited experience in aviation, but greater elsewhere . If the current owner is willing to spend hours flying, sailing, driving the asset to you, it’s probably a pretty good bet, because while it may be insured, it’s their keister on the line in transit
NewYork-Paki@reddit
Annual, and have it done from your own mechanic. Their are no rules and regulations that stipulate the depth of a pre buy inspection.
Best_Biscuits@reddit
An annual says it's probably safe to fly, and a pre-buy is intended to figure out the mechanical and physical condition of the aircraft and what the past and the future of the aircraft may look like.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I‘m no aircraft mechanic, and I don’t know what all is involved in a pre-buy or an annual, but could it be a good idea to just have one done instead of/in addition to a pre-buy when purchasing a plane, particularly one that is 50+ year old?
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TheSkyFlier@reddit
We do prebuys/annuals semi regularly. If a customer turns a pre-buy into an annual all we do is lube the plane and fix stuff we may have found before we put it back together since all the hard work is already done. ALWAYS get a prebuy from a mechanic you trust! We’ve found lots of airplanes that a new owner has had for a year and it turns out the engine is bad, the gear are bad, and the wings are so corroded we’re worried they’re gonna fall off inside our hangar. If you get a discounted rate on turning a prebuy into an annual I’d say just go ahead and get it done. There’s a pretty good chance they’ll find something you want fixed before you fly it anyway.
phliar@reddit
Always do a pre-buy. With a mechanic you provide.
When I bought a used airplane I took my mechanic to the plane. He did the pre-buy, and also covered all the annual inspection things. When we decided to pull the trigger, I logged in to the escrow account and transferred the money and the title transfer got filed; then the mechanic made the logbook entry for the annual and I flew the airplane home.
(If we had decided to not proceed, my mechanic would just have not made the logbook entries for the annual.)
TxAggieMike@reddit
AOPA has resources for this.
One good one is a buy/sell template that is worth your time obtaining and reading through.
Consider doing an escrow account. This shows the buyer you have the dollars, but won’t release the funds until all the details are dealt with to both person’s satisfaction.