Ferrari Could Make Future Supercars Feel Like Manuals Again
Posted by pdp10@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 23 comments
Posted by pdp10@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 23 comments
Sebsibus@reddit
I think car manufacturers completely miss the point of what people actually love about manual gearboxes and combustion engines.
The scream of a naturally aspirated V10 and the haptic feedback of a gated manual are special because they’re real, mechanical experiences — not some fake gimmick or fidget toy. When you hear the roar of an old AMG 6.3L NA V8, you’re hearing an exotic, hand-built engine doing its thing. I don’t think anyone is genuinely impressed by a new AMG GT 4-Door faking the same sound through speakers.
I mean, you could play V8 noises through the speakers of a 30-year-old Multipla too — I doubt anyone would be impressed by that either.
pdp10@reddit (OP)
It's considerably more difficult for automakers to deliver those things while staying in compliance with regulations, than it was decades ago.
Today's automatic and CVT gearboxes are tuned for fuel efficiency by default. Throttle-by-wire response is muted purposely for the same reason. It's harder to get the same numbers out of a manual on the EPA's testing regime, especially now that slushboxes can easily have the same number of gear ratios as manuals. Sometimes a non-default "sport mode" will return the older behavior, sidestepping regulations.
Even the finest, variable-geometry turbocharger with gamma-Ti turbine wheel, can't be as responsive as an atmo engine tuned for responsiveness. But small-displacement engines with turbos are now the rule, even on many pickup trucks.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Toyota and Subaru have sold a manual NA Boxer coupe for a decade. I think Ferrari can find a way to put an NA Manual into something.
The real issue is that there are no car enthusiasts in charge at Ferrari and its pretty obvious at this point. They are ceetainly design-by-committee at this point.
Sebsibus@reddit
I'd rather have an authentic EV drivetrain experience (instant torque, seamless acceleration, and near silence) than drive around in a scaled up toy with fake gear shifts and artificial vroom vroom noises.
If I were driving the new EV Charger or the AMG 4-Door, I’d honestly feel embarrassed "revving" a fake engine while cruising through the streets. To me, it’s no different from blasting V12 sounds from a cassette deck while driving a Fiat Multipla. It’s the absolute epitome of cringe.
Bonerchill@reddit
Car manufacturers don’t completely miss the point- most owners of cars do.
Sports cars are meant to engage in the sport of driving. Not the drudgery of commuting, not the high-stakes world of Cars and Coffee, not the thrills of a concours.
Talking about how much one loves the experience of a manual when one barely drives is performative.
So who cares for them?
Sebsibus@reddit
A sports car, grand tourer, or convertible is about far more than just sporty driving. If that’s your only goal, buy a simulator — it’s far cheaper.
Enthusiast cars are expressions of aspiration, prestige, and community. In that sense, they’re not all that different from other luxury products like designer clothing or Swiss watches.
Cars and Coffee events and a relaxed cruise through the city are just as much a part of the experience.
Bonerchill@reddit
It sounds a lot like your first post doesn’t match your response to mine.
Sebsibus@reddit
No, I don’t think so. Wanting authentic enthusiast cars while also appreciating them for more than just driving around (e.g. Cars & Coffee) isn’t a contradiction to me.
strongmanass@reddit
On the contrary, a lot of people seem to be really impressed by it and the Ioniq 5N. I think it's really strange from the same set of people who hate piped-in noise from speakers in cars with real engines, but petrolheads like it.
marcduberge@reddit
Or, you know, just make them manuals???
Musketeer00@reddit
I feel like this system would just make me want to drive a real manual car. Like not all cars need to be manual and past a certain price bracket it doesn't make since so why remind us what we lost? Not that it matters to me as I cannot afford a Ferrari.
Boundish91@reddit
I'm fine with EVs and cars with automatic transmissions, there are plenty that are great cars.
When I'm getting a manual car again it'll be a drivers car from the 90s or 2000s. That was the peak for me.
tnolan182@reddit
On the one hand, I can understand why they’re trying to develop this into their EVs, because let’s face it eventually EVs will replace ICE vehicles. But I don’t understand why anyone driving a non EV would want this simulated experience.
A_Pointy_Rock@reddit
I'm not as married to old school manuals as some car enthusiasts. I'm by no means anti-manual, but I have driven plenty of cars with other setups that were enjoyable.
That being said, if I wanted to buy a car with a the equivalent of a child's toy steering wheel taped to the floor.
emceter@reddit
Precisely this. I have zero interest in simulated gears, fake clutches and fake gear shift sticks. - If I’m driving my wife’s electric Rivian I love it for smoothness, lack of gears and enjoyable one pedal driving. - When I’m in my 06 4Runner off road I enjoy the crudeness of experience supplemented with the 4.7 V8 rumble. - When I’m in the M3 shifting gears I don’t want the car to do things on its own. I want to be in full control.
Never did I think yea this is nice, but what if the M3 could have full autonomous driving or Rivian had the extra jerkiness of simulated transmission with noises piped thorough speakers…. This is nuts
pdp10@reddit (OP)
The different design patterns of the hybrid 296/Artura, F80, Porsche 918, have a lot of engineering merit. Putting electric traction motors on the front gives you AWD without driveshaft or transmission complications, while being highly effective for regeneration. Designs with a single motor attached to a conventional transaxle, are effectively combining existing starter and alternator motor-generators into one, and using it for more traction power instead of dead weight.
emceter@reddit
Yep, that’s all fine for track focused vehicles. It’s great we are engineering things, but that’s part of my point. I don’t care for any of that complexity in something for road use. If those companies care so much about 0-60 just go full electric car then. It will always be faster 0-60 than a complicated hybrid. Why add complexity for sake of complexity.
Asleep-Use-7336@reddit
honestly their DCT is already so good, why would you want simulated shift feel. if you want a manual that bad there's plenty of used 360s out there
pdp10@reddit (OP)
The manual 360s are always priced higher than the "F1 automanual" 360s. Ferrari's market is much more highly based on retained value than other makes, so it makes sense for them to be more sensitive to the manual issue, beyond the fact that they stopped selling them in 2012.
YJeezy@reddit
Just buy the real thing. Digital will never feel as good.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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ikilledtupac@reddit
Look how they massacred my boy