Why is Libertarianism completely dead in the UK?
Posted by vorkovrus@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 22 comments
[removed]
Posted by vorkovrus@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 22 comments
[removed]
Aggressive-Lie-9447@reddit
What I think is a bit cynical, I guess.
When you mention Locke, don't forget Hobbes. Also, Adam Smith was Scottish, that also says a lot.
The world now is not ready for "more responsibility". It wants less responsibility, that is clear everywhere you go. And if you can't rely on yourself, you rely on the big brother, of course.
In general, humans are not very much fond of relying on themselves, everyone wants it easy, always.
That is why libertarianism can never be found in vivo, only in vitro.
BringBackUsenet@reddit
People don't want responsibility at all. They all want to be able to live recklessly without consequences.
TheDoplarEffect@reddit
Just putting this idea out there.
Perhaps one reason is that perhaps your fears/assumptions on which you base your political philosophy aren't entirely justified?
It's quite easy to stay in your bubble of: "I'm right, they're wrong. Therefore the only explanation is that they are sheeple"
As opposed to maybe being a bit humble and asking yourself: Maybe I'm wrong?
Perhaps every other western country isn't as "allergic" to government interference in their life because they truly feel that on the whole it's made their lives better off. While everyone complains about their current government, every European I know would defend their system rather than somethign like the US (which is much closer to Libertarian ideals than current Europe for example).
I'm not saying to agree with this idea. But at least consider that it is possible
orroreqk@reddit
You must know only average Europeans, since there are plenty of us who are not going to stand up to defend their country's economic model when compared to that of the US. Not least of which are the large numbers of talented Europeans that have migrated to the US or elsewhere outside of Europe to escape these models.
Also strange to simply assert that the US is is "much closer" to Libertarian ideals than current Europe. Many countries in Europe (predominantly new Europe) have smaller or less intrusive states than does the US. Although they have a superior culture and "fabric" of liberty, the US has a government that, by libertarian ideals, in many non-financial ways is far more intrusive than the typical European government (unchecked violent government employee actions, imprisoned population, prohibition of drugs etc).
TheDoplarEffect@reddit
I mean, without looking up specific studies I think it's quite safe to assume that the average European wouldn't want to end up like the US.
Sure you can talk about small communities of people who migrate to the US (normally for higher salaries). But do you really think if ideas like: For profit healthcare, US style gun laws, US style consumer protections were put to a vote or poll. Do you really think it wouldn't be anything but a blowout against?
No country will be a perfect representation of any one ideal. But do you not think, as a whole, that the US is more representative of Libertarian ideals?
orroreqk@reddit
Yes, there is no doubt that the average European is a social democrat at heart. That does not mean there is large minority who are not. You stated that you only know people who prefer the European social democratic model, so I concluded that you must know only average Europeans.
These are not intrinsic or even particularly important aspects of the system of governance. Healthcare is a meaningful cost problem, but for-profit healthcare is not uniquely American nor absent in Europe. Gun laws (which differ widely throughout the US anyway) are near-irrelevant to a normal person's life.
Only very slightly, and when compared against the most redistributive welfare states. I think good arguments could be made that Ireland, Estonia, or Malta would on the whole be no less representative of libertarian ideas than the US (especially California or NY). And all of these are hopelessly far from anything a classical liberal would recognize.
Ok-Waltz-4858@reddit
If Europe had as many Black people as the US, the proportion of population that is in prison would be much closer to the US than it currently is. The number of prisoners has little to do with the level of US government intrusiveness.
tallguy900000@reddit
Donald Trump’s Republican Party resembles this remark, as well. They are okay with trampling rights as long as they think it works in their favor.
kkdawg22@reddit
Ya, but what does that have to do with the UK?
tallguy900000@reddit
It shows people in the UK that what they are experiencing is what libertarians experience worldwide. That is what it has to do with the UK.
kkdawg22@reddit
Ok cool. Seems a little out of left field tbh, but ok.
BringBackUsenet@reddit
Better state indoctrination.
DamperBeet746@reddit
And that is why the U.S. isn’t a part of Britain anymore.
___John_@reddit
Where do you think the term nanny came from?
drebelx@reddit
Couldn't even get rid of their beloved monarchy.
vithrell@reddit
Royal family doesnt have much to say in real world matters, but I just learned that UK still has hereditary seats in house of lords.
drebelx@reddit
Quite improper.
rtrs_bastiat@reddit
Technically no, but I think we need the lingering ones to age out before it's truly cleared out.
rtrs_bastiat@reddit
John Locke and Adam Smith have both been dead for centuries. So presumably the same reason we're not still feudal.
orroreqk@reddit
I don't think it's any more dead than anywhere else in Western Europe. There are pockets out there in the UK -- ASI, IEA, a few people in the Conservative party, a few in the Lib Dems (was big before they took a wrong turn post-2016).
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Britain has always had a deep culture of statism. A few exceptions does not reverse a general trend.
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