TSMC employees threaten Samsung-style strikes over bonus cut rumors despite a 58% profit jump
Posted by sr_local@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 86 comments
-WingsForLife-@reddit
On one of the Samsung threads someone there was saying that the machines were more important than the labor and thus the investors deserved more for what they put in as capital.
Now we have TSMC who's buying the same machines as Samsung and Intel but outputs far better products in the fields they compete in I wonder what that comment would look like.
Logical-Database4510@reddit
The "investors" can drive to the shop and hit the damned buttons, then.
Fuck the rich and go union labor.
Tekuila87@reddit
It's hilarious because the rich literally contribute nothing. It's a drop in the bucket to them and is therefore worth a drop in the bucket to others.
ChocomelP@reddit
puffz0r@reddit
Ownership adds no value. Labor does. The fact that the piece of paper is in your name in no way helps develop or manufacture the end product.
CheesyCaption@reddit
Imagine how great TSMC would be if they never bought their first machine.
OuterOne@reddit
A machine built by workers and operated by workers. Investment itself produces nothing.
azn_dude1@reddit
Workers by themselves produce nothing too. Nobody works for free.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
These days machines are built by other machines. No human could produce a product to the tolerances needed for an EUV machine.
Zalack@reddit
And those other machines require no human interaction to work? Need no design to be created?
Or are those other machines tools that are ultimately used by humans to build?
OuterOne@reddit
Why does ASML pay for employees at all then? How many EUV machines would be made if no one walked back to work tomorrow?
FlyingBishop@reddit
TSMC bought their first machines with government money.
EatMorePotatos@reddit
You're saying the buying the first machines brought no value?
FlyingBishop@reddit
I'm saying the owners of TSMC brought no value.
EatMorePotatos@reddit
You're not gonna believe this
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
And the government is the largest owner of TSMC. People keep talking about the profits going to billionaires but the largest beneficiary is actually Taiwanese taxpayers.
Realistic_Deal6083@reddit
Imagine licking corporate feet for free.
puffz0r@reddit
Imagine how great ASML would be without all the decades of research and engineering by its workers
What would TSMC do with a lithography machine, is the stack of money going to go down and punch the buttons? Cut the wafer masks? Can a bank account put on a sterile suit and load the silicon wafers? Can a pile of cash perform the accounting on how to spend itself or give projections on how various avenues of research might yield a future product?
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
And this absolutely proves that true. TSMC bonuses are a small fraction of Samsung's despite being just as profitable.
Eclipsed830@reddit
Samsung has bigger bonuses than TSMC? That is honestly impressive.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
Have you missed the whole story? Their blue collar workers went on strike and got $400,000 bonuses plus increased profit sharing. SK Hynix workers got double that. TSMC didn't give out anything special.
Eclipsed830@reddit
I did miss the story. Blue collar workers at Samsung got $400,000 bonuses? USD? TSMC bonuses are typically about equal to the salary. So if your salary is $1.5 million NTD a year, you'll get somewhere around $1.5 million NTD in bonuses.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
$400,000 USD this year. Likely more next year based on current profit projections. SK Hynix workers getting $900,000 next year for comparison.
Eclipsed830@reddit
$400,000 USD is wild for blue collar workers... TSMC will never pay the blue collar workers that much. Most of them come from the Philippines. $40,000ntd a month is considered big money for many of them.
NoxiousStimuli@reddit
It's not even really accurate to call them blue collar workers even though they are labourers. The level of skill and technical expertise required for these jobs is in-line with doctors or space engineers.
Eclipsed830@reddit
Oh, that isn't the case at all at TSMC... most of the workers are contractors on a year to year contract. If they quit, they will replace them. The people making the big money at TSMC are managers, engineers, and sales. They are mostly office workers.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
That's nonsense. The people who DESIGN the process are extremely highly educated and skilled. Most of the people actually working at the fab don't require either. You can go apply to work as a technician in the TSMC Arizona fab right now with a GED.
Cicero912@reddit
From a purely economic standpoint thisis technically correct, one of the main reasons wealth inequality has gone up is the fact that capital productivity has grown massively while labor productivity has not experienced the same increase.
Cheerful_Champion@reddit
This is technically incorrect. As previous comment stated: If the machines (capital) were the real value drivers then TSMC, Samsung and Intel would have the exact same chip yields because they all buy the exact same multi-million-dollar ASML machines. But they don't. The important part is the human labor - the engineers and technicians who actually know how to optimize and run those machines. A bleeding edge machine without good workers produces crap, see Intel struggling with their incoming nodes despite using more expensive High-NA EUV machines while TSMC does well on older machines.
Plus, saying labor productivity stagnated is a total myth. Decades of data show workers are massively more productive today than they were 20 or 40 years ago. The real issue is what economists call "decoupling" - companies just stopped tying wages to productivity and started funneling all those efficiency gains straight into investor pockets and stock buybacks.
Capital didn't magically become more productive on its own. It just took the credit and the cash for labor's increased output.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
The people aren't getting more productive; the machines are. Pure labor productivity is going DOWN.
FlyingBishop@reddit
people install and operate the machines. the people who own TSMC couldn't install or maintain the 2nm chip machines.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
Actual educational requirement to be a technician at TSMC is a high school diploma:
https://ro.careers.tsmc.com/job/Phoenix-Equipment-Technician-AZ-85083/1210093801/
FlyingBishop@reddit
The PHDs are flown in from Taiwan. They're not even attempting to hire locals for those roles, they're too specialized.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
I think the point you're fundamentally missing here is that the strike at Samsung WASN'T those Ph.D people from the home office.. it was the manufacturing workers union. The actual Ph.Ds doing the R&D absolutely are worth $400,000. But what we're talking about here is the operations and maintenance workers at the production fabs.
Mephisto6@reddit
Both should get bonuses, white collar probably more. But i’m sure the working conditions for blue collar workers are extremely intense at TSMC, warranting good compensation.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
Both of these companies (Samsung and TSMC) are considered the premiere company in their respective countries in a way people in the US couldn't even understand. They were already considered prestigious, high paying jobs before the AI boom.
5panks@reddit
There are definitely industries where that is true, but I don't see chipmaking as one of them.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
Why would you say that? It seems like the most obvious example.
ea_man@reddit
I guess it's not the chipmaking per se, it's the production of the chip maker machines as in ASML.
5panks@reddit
Chipmaking is a very specialized industry that requires a highly trained workforce that is hard to train and in limited supply.
That makes the employees very valuable and frequently poached by competitors.
Something like windshield manufacturing is the opposite, the machines are large and quite expnesove, but you can train someone to run one in a day.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
The workers are certainly more highly skilled than at somewhere making windshields.. but the machines are VASTLY more expensive. Theres billions of dollars worth of machines in a modern fab. And while you can't train a fab worker in a day you can certainly train them in a year. It's If nothing like a doctor for instance that takes 8 years of school and 4 years of residency. And likewise if fab workers got paid as much as doctors there would be no shortage if skilled individuals applying.
5panks@reddit
Doctors don't work in manufacturing. The question was specifically about instances of manufacturing where the worker is more valuable than the machine.
If your windshield press workers go ok strike, it takes you longer to find their replacements than it does to train them. That's the benefit of being able to train them in a day. A fab worker, by your own admission, takes a year to train. If your fab workers go on strike and never come back to work, you go bankrupt.
mrpops2ko@reddit
because its not only private capital prohibitive, its also state funded too.
you are seeing the same kind of thing with intel. a lane really needs to be picked. either get private capital out of it and it be a fully state funded venture and do the worker comps etc or it be a fully private venture where its left to fail if it cant perform.
the middleground is the same middleground which intel are finding themselves in and are fighting to overcome / survive
TRKlausss@reddit
That’s utterly bullshit. Who’s gonna buy products otherwise? Most of goods sold are either to end consumer or B2B, that end up in the consumer market. It doesn’t come magically out of “investor’s” pockets
Loose_Skill6641@reddit
the whole industry is envious - Samsung employees getting a one off $400k bonus lol now everyone wants the same
Admirable_Speech_686@reddit
Im exited to hear from the members of the holy ai church how this is actualy bullish
vyo12@reddit
Believe it or not, calls
Frothar@reddit
not AI related but studies show companies with the happiest workers out perform the average in terms of share price. most recent from 2023 is
''Top 100 ‘happiest’ companies outperform S&P 500 and Dow Jones by 20% since 2021''
TimelyToast@reddit
Well most Redditors stocks are US listed so this impacts key foreign competitors more than us.
Hopefully, US corporations take advantage of the opportunity. On the flip side, it also gives China an opening and, yeah…. we are probably screwed.
Alpha3031@reddit
Oh that one is easy, not paying workers is good for business (i hate it i hate it i hate it).
Honestly, is there any part of the AI narrative that isn't more profits for less pay? (and aforementioned the holy ai church somehow saying with a straight face that this is a good thing)
Mordho@reddit
I refuse to believe those are real people
ours@reddit
Oh, I've met them and even have to work with a few. They are insufferable.
One of them, if they ever push me too far, I'll ask him how the whole "Web 3.0/blockchain" thing that we all needed to jump into goes today.
_bfmc@reddit
I’m so excited that this is spreading. I hope other industries too can start doing this
FollowingFeisty5321@reddit
Trillion dollar gang going to have to simultaneously declare their hundreds of billions profit to investors while hiding it from employees *chefs kiss*.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
Is it though? This article is literally a rumor about a rumor. Nothing has actually happened aside from some complaints on social media.
hackenclaw@reddit
I think wages should scale off 1:1 to companies profit.
Danne660@reddit
Take like one fucking second to think about why that is a bad idea.
Fuck anyone working in low profit industries i guess not to mention people working for companies that don't even make a profit.
996forever@reddit
nittanyofthings@reddit
The best way to cause it to happen is taxation of corporate profit. Cutting corporate taxes damages the economy because the billionaires remove the profits from the active economy.
CheesyCaption@reddit
That's an insane take.
First, profits are a small part of a billionaires net worth, their worth is almost always tied up in the value of owned assets. Those assets are almost all ownership of valuable companies which very much exist in the active economy.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
Reddit's understanding of economics is literally worse than a 5yr old. Its not just that people on reddit have never taken a single economics class and know nothing.. they've been completely indoctrinated by political propaganda so they actually know LESS than nothing because everything they think they know is laughably wrong.
996forever@reddit
And if even in its current state corporates find so many ways to minimise their tax payments further complicating things wouldn’t help.
Like I said there is no way to enforce a rule worldwide.
Raikaru@reddit
What happens if the company just reinvests into the company and therefore doesn’t really have profit.
nittanyofthings@reddit
That creates more jobs and more payments to workers.
EmergencyCucumber905@reddit
Other than dividends which go to all shareholders and is a measly $3.80 per share annually for TSMC, how is that money going to idle billionaires?
upvotesthenrages@reddit
The vast majority of shareholders in large companies are extremely wealthy people.
Pension funds, which used to be the largest players in the market, got dethroned years ago. The top 2% richest people now hold far more wealth, and more stocks, than pension funds (about 3-4x as much)
CheesyCaption@reddit
All three of those sentences are non-sequitur. You also left out 401ks, which have largely replaced pension funds.
upvotesthenrages@reddit
No, that includes 401k's.
And it's global, not just US. In the US it's even more skewed towards the wealthy than the global average.
justice_for_lachesis@reddit
lol other than profit distribution to sharehders, how does profit go to shareholders? brilliant question
justice_for_lachesis@reddit
company will be set up for success and profit in later years! reinvestment is a good thing
Due-Description-9030@reddit
That'll only ever increase salaries and company perks and even create new jobs.
Charuru@reddit
That doesn't make sense... profits is already minus wages.
Scary-Jaguar-9072@reddit
Well then Intel employees gonna be paying to work there since they lose money every quarter.
justice_for_lachesis@reddit
this is the deal that the hynix and now Samsung unions have gotten. 10% of the profit goes to employee bonuses.
jaaval@reddit
So like, OpenAI employees should pay to work there?
Zealousideal-Cut4232@reddit
They’ll find a way to decrease profits just to avoid paying more. Or even pay less citing lack of profits. That’s a slippery slope.
bhop_monsterjam@reddit
exactly what swathes of the biggest studios in the movie industry do
nittanyofthings@reddit
That's called an employee owned company: profits are given to employees. I prefer customer owned companies where profits are given back to customers. There are so many alternatives to capitalism and comunism.
Scared-Discussion443@reddit
There's something deeply ironic here.
TSMC built its reputation on being the most disciplined, most reliable, most strategically essential company in the world. That reputation — not the bonus — is what makes every TSMC engineer valuable in the first place.
Threatening strikes over bonus rumors at a company posting 58% profit growth doesn't just look ungrateful. It looks like the moment a craftsman forgets what made him a craftsman. Samsung's strikes didn't strengthen Samsung. They signaled the beginning of its internal fracture. TSMC employees might want to think carefully about which story they want to be part of.
justice_for_lachesis@reddit
nice comment, ChatGPT
dudemanguy301@reddit
TSMC lays their reputation on the vast knowledge, experience, and executional excellence of their staff. Samsung and Intel have the same ASML machines sitting in their fabs and would leap at any opportunity to pouch staff.
gburdell@reddit
Bullish for INTC which only manufactures in red states where collective bargaining is seen as communism
DerpSenpai@reddit
TSMC has no reason to not give shares of the company as bonuses to their employees
Scared-Discussion443@reddit
There's something deeply ironic here.
TSMC built its reputation on being
the most disciplined, most reliable,
most strategically essential company
in the world.
That reputation — not the bonus —
is what makes every TSMC engineer
valuable in the first place.
Threatening strikes over bonus rumors
at a company posting 58% profit growth
doesn't just look ungrateful.
It looks like the moment a craftsman
forgets what made him a craftsman.
Samsung's strikes didn't strengthen
Samsung. They signaled the beginning
of its internal fracture.
TSMC employees might want to think
carefully about which story
they want to be part of.
MainCharacter007@reddit
Why
Are you
Typing
Like this?
huanhuan17@reddit
the company earn great profit but reduce bonus , will increase labor unrest risks