What happens if your parent dies and you just.. don’t want to pay for the funeral?

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tom-mart@reddit

I envy your relationship with your parents. Not everyone is as blessed. Some people have real scum for parents.

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Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

Both my parents are dead. Have you walked a mile in op parents shoes ?

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tom-mart@reddit

Well, i definitely have more empathy for the OP becaue I also wouldn't care for funeral arrangements for the people who call themselves my parents.

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tom-mart@reddit

That's a weird comment to make. Why wouldn't I be able to afford it?

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Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

Because not everyone can afford a nice funeral for their loved ones ?

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tom-mart@reddit

I think you need some English classes. We are talking about not WANTING to pay for funeral for people we hate, not being able to AFFORD one for love ones.

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Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

I think you need to stop with the personal insults, maybe the self pity also.

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Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

What you on about you melt? I was re0lying to a comment saying they wish they had my relationship. At least learn to read.

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thejadedfalcon@reddit

And that response was in response to you, saying that OP not giving a shit about an abusive parent is "vile."

Is the sun melting your brain?

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stephani29@reddit

I certainly haven't walked a mile in op's parent's shoes because I have never and will never abuse my child for any 'reason'

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Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

Well then you dont know the full story do you.

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pu55yobsessed@reddit

The “full story” doesn’t matter. There’s no justification for being abusive to your children. And if you are, you can’t expect your kids to watch out for you.

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Hey i agree with the child abuse bit, if its true. But you cant soley blame your parents for not being a functioning person. Id be willing to bet i got alot worse than most people. That shit made me who i am today.

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pu55yobsessed@reddit

It sounds like you’re offering more understanding to OPs parents for what they may have gone through to make them who they are, but you’re judging OP for doing what she sees fit as a result of what her parents put her through that made her who she is.

My point stands, if you’re abusive to your kids then you can’t expect them to look out for you and other people don’t get to judge the decisions the kids make. You reap what you sow in life.

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stephani29@reddit

Do you?

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Viking-Bastard-XIV@reddit

You don’t know their situation.

I didn’t attend and refused to take any ownership of my Dads funeral. The hospital phoned to say he’d died and I asked why the were phoning me.

Then again I have the scars across my body from the cigarette burns, hot water, and kettle lead he’d use when he was angry.

Before calling someone out for being vile, try to find out why.

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Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

I have a similar story. Why do you think they rang you? Two wrongs dont make a right.

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thejadedfalcon@reddit

Why do you think they rang you?

Because they have records of a family relationship, but no knowledge of the abuse that took place.

Did that really need spelling out?

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No-Calligrapher-718@reddit

Having nothing to do with abusive parents is not a wrong, and it never will be. All child abusers deserve is an eternity of hell, nothing more.

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philthy_barstool@reddit

Is it?

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Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

Yes.

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philthy_barstool@reddit

I don't know, sounds like their mum is a pretty awful person, who should make their own arrangements if they want a decent send off. It's not vile, just apathetic, which is totally fine.

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Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

You cant go through life constantly blaming other for whats wrong in your life.

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philthy_barstool@reddit

Yeah, but equally you can cut someone out if they're an awful person. Regardless of how well you personally are coping with stuff. I've got no comment on the "she's responsible for me not managing well with life" aspect. I just don't think it's unreasonable for OP to not be bothered about giving her mother a send off if she's been an awful parent her whole life. The two points can be mutually exclusive.

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that2017vibe@reddit

Found the mum

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KitFan2020@reddit

‘Lazy, abusive, vile’ people are owed nothing.

The council will take care of it, OP is under no obligation to do anything.

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Odd_Scar836@reddit

Abusing children is vile. Parents then getting what they deserve is karma and justice

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BlueBerry_Dino@reddit

You've clearly never dealt with toxic parents have you?

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meniegg@reddit

Why?

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Lion-Resident@reddit

Not it isn't

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celestial-bloom@reddit

Choosing to have kids and them abusing them is vile, yeah

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Familiar-Dark-4831@reddit

If noone will arrange/pay for a funeral, the local council is obliged to pay for it

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ClumsyandLost@reddit

This is the answer, though I don't think they provide a wake. They'll pay for a simple cardboard coffin and cremation and someone at the crematorium will say a few generic words.

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late3@reddit

Believe it or not, a cardboard coffin is more expensive than a than a wooden one

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RRW2020@reddit

I just looked up prices. Cardboard coffins start at £250 and go up to £400-500 if you have pictures (like a bluebell forest). Wooden coffins start at £500 and go up to £2000 or more. Cardboard coffins are way less expensive.

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PerkeNdencen@reddit

Fuck that noise, just pop in me in whatever the fridge came in.

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Nooodlepip@reddit

My dad got his friend to make one from used pallets because he didn’t want to spend money on it. The crematorium had never seen anything like it!

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KatVanWall@reddit

I bet that/he burned really well in that too!

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Nooodlepip@reddit

He loved a good fire as well.

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herefromthere@reddit

My dad said that, but when we looked at it, the funeral directors discouraged it on account of how dead bodies leak.

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Far-Presentation6307@reddit

2 2x4s, a sheet of 1 inch ply and a rolled up carpet.

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PerkeNdencen@reddit

Ooft yeah. Blimey. Well just chuck me in quick before I start seeping through 😂

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Novaportia@reddit

Can't do that, the cat is in it.

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super_starmie@reddit

When I was arranging my dad's funeral three months ago the cardboard coffin was hugely expensive. The plain wooden one was much cheaper.

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Timely_Egg_6827@reddit

Isn't that because it is a rental and removed before the end whereas the cardboard one goes with you?

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smoolg@reddit

Absolutely not.

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super_starmie@reddit

Well dad was buried so it wasn't removed

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icdeadpeople787@reddit

Coffins are not rentals. In the uk 99.9% of the coffins the deceased is placed in is the coffin that theybare cremated/buried in. All sorts of law around this. There are options for no coffin for example a tied shroud, but for cremation they would still have a wooden type board underneath for loading into the cremator. Some coffins are not sutable for cremation like the metal american caskets but these wouldnt be used in the first place

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will2089@reddit

You’re looking at special coffins. Most funeral directors have a coffin that’s included with the purchase of a certain package.

Might be a basic or a trad oak. The ones you saw are all upgrades

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wooyoo@reddit

Why?

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ctesibius@reddit

If you get them from the undertaker they will cost more because they usually have decorative “wraps” with semi-custom imagery on them. For instance you could have the deceased’s football team on them. A plain cardboard coffin from an online company will not be as expensive.

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feralhog3050@reddit

Does a used Amazon box count as a plain cardboard coffin from an online company 🤔

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icdeadpeople787@reddit

No due to the glues in the cardboard. Emmisions plays a big part

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11Kram@reddit

Does the crematorium remove the mercury amalgam from fillings in teeth? These are toxic when burned. I doubt that filters in the chimney would remove all the mercury compounds.

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icdeadpeople787@reddit

Yes modern furnaces have mercury ebatement to capture the harmful agents, some had retrofitments for existing furnace. Modern furnaces are quite sofisticated computer controlled machines.

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Chordsy@reddit

Possibly but I don't think prime delivery will be included with that one.

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icdeadpeople787@reddit

Main reason cardboard coffin is more expensive is scale of production. Standard coffins (fibreboard with wood effect covering) are produced in the uk in the 100s of thousands per annum but cardboard are made in much smaller quantities therefore much more of a "specialiast" item

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sjcuthbertson@reddit

At a guess: cardboard is inherently more flimsy than even cheap plywood (or chipboard or something), so you probably need quite a specialist construction of cardboard to contain a corpse.

Then you're not paying for the raw materials, so much as the design work and engineering that went into it.

I'd guess the decomposability of cardboard is more appealing to some so they're happy paying a little more.

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late3@reddit

No idea, just something I know from unfortunate experiences

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PamVanDam@reddit

Can confirm, have had to sort three funerals myself before 40 and helped with two others.

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Jacleby@reddit

Yes we had this for my uncle. The cheapest option available. The crematorium just works on like 10 minute slots. We just sat in the cafe and they call you in when it’s time

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TingsInMaSocks@reddit

The cost of a proper funeral, wake, grave/stonemason is absolutely insane.

It was a really nice funeral, beautiful service at the church, the wake was amazing, had music playing, dancing, a live band, nothing sombre.

She had left enough to cover it and that's what she wanted, but I think it came to around £12,000.

When I go I want 10 mins in the cardboard box and a rowdy wake.

I will fucking haunt people if they spend anything on a church service or a grave.

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Charl1edontsurf@reddit

It’s sad that no one knows that it’s perfectly legal to dig someone’s grave yourself, to be buried in a shroud and lay out and transport the body yourself to the graveyard. I listened to a great radio programme years ago where a lady dressed her deceased husband and transported him in a cardboard coffin to the graveyard on top of her Mini Cooper and her sons dug the grave. They had to lower him out the window. Fair play to her!

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OddlyDown@reddit

You don’t need a graveyard - you can bury people in your own garden in most cases.

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ItsDominare@reddit

Yeah, you can save a ton of money by not going in for all that shit. If my grandma knew how much cash we'd saved on her funeral she'd be spinning in her ditch.

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poo_on_my_scarf@reddit

Just got an image in my head of everyone standing around with a ticket with a number on in hand waiting for their order. And there's a deliveroo guy in the corner who's in the wrong place but hasn't realised yet

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phatboi23@reddit

And there's a deliveroo guy in the corner who's in the wrong place but hasn't realised yet

he's actually there to pick up the ashes, as it's cheaper than getting them delivered by mail. lol

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maisydee@reddit

And later on someone will get a massively overdone char grill burger delivered by mistake …

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phatboi23@reddit

brilliant haha

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Fade_To_Blackout@reddit

You joke, but when I was a cycle courier, I did take human ashes around from place to place....

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Jacleby@reddit

I was exactly that! Deaths waiting room as I called it

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maisydee@reddit

No one will say anything. in my experience, at the allocated time it will just proceed…

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ClumsyandLost@reddit

I don't mean like an actual service. I just mean they'll try and say something respectful.

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Fannnybaws@reddit

Ashes to ashes,funk to funky,we know major toms a junkie.

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glytxh@reddit

Honestly this feels way less performative and depressing than a usual funeral

I like the pragmatic nature of burial like this. No fluff.

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DivasDayOff@reddit

My mum requested a cardboard coffin. I think partly on environmental grounds and partly just as one last two fingered salute to social convention.

Not only was it more expensive than a number of the wooden options, the place she wanted the service to be held at would not have permitted it.

We went for a wooden one in the end.

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Leezeebub@reddit

They will be forced to arrange it but they will take the money from the estate.
Parents will spend a couple of months in a freezer while its all sorted, then cremated and disposed of without much ceremony.

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Shellrant42day@reddit

This is not how it happens at all. People are treated exactly the same regardless if the state pays, you obviously can’t have the extravagance that some people have, but it isn’t awful and people don’t spend months in freezers. You are limited to one car and a display of flowers, some funeral directors who provide the services for the local authorities will limit the time of funeral, but they mostly don’t. So many funerals are paid for by the state now, most people wouldn’t even notice, because people just haven’t put anything by for their funeral and don’t have “estates or savings”.

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Leezeebub@reddit

I literally run a mortuary and have public health funeral patients in my freezer right now.
A body must be put into the freezer after 30 days and the average PHF takes at least 2 months to arrange, meaning that even if they are referred to the council on day one (they arent), they would be in the freezer for at least a month.

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HereticLaserHaggis@reddit

This is gonna sound a bit grim but.. Is business booming? I always sorta feel like with our ageing population it's a good business to be in.

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Leezeebub@reddit

Its surprisingly quite seasonal. Usually the summer months are relatively quiet while winter can be very busy.

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EdgeCityRed@reddit

When people die in North Dakota, they hold the body over the winter because it's too frozen for burials unless you want to pay extra for a heater over the plot a day ahead.

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Timely_Egg_6827@reddit

Think that may vary. Friend was done in two weeks and some of that was because the coroner's office needed to track down next of kin. I took call from them and thankfully was aware of his estranged son. My father was in freezer (normal funeral) because it took time to get death certificate as registeration service backed up and another friend took months as autopsy needed. Not sure it really matters unless want open casket - dead is dead. Person is a bit beyond harm at that point.

And as noted, the rest of the service was as respectful as funerals in covid could be.

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

And? They're dead, they won't mind!

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Leezeebub@reddit

Yeah, I was just making it clear that this is not some great life hack to get a cheap funeral for your loved ones. Its generally reserved for people who have no friends or family who want to deal with it.

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

Or people with very little money who cant afford a funeral

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poo_on_my_scarf@reddit

What are the rough costs in such a ceremony?

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Leezeebub@reddit

I dont know how much the council pays but up until a couple of years ago, these used to be arranged by the hospital. We had a contracted funeral director who I believe charged around £600.

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ZestycloseSympathy16@reddit

People will tell you so confidently on the internet that you’re wrong even if you’re an expert in the field

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poo_on_my_scarf@reddit

Ahktoo-ally I think you'll find.......

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Go2Matt@reddit

Wonder if they defrost them first. Or cook from frozen....

Adjust cooking times...

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maisydee@reddit

It’s all Air Fryers these days, I assume …

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Lowermains@reddit

😂🤣😂

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Leezeebub@reddit

Theyll be left to defrost over the weekend, then cremated on mon/tues, most likely

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BillWilberforce@reddit

Not a freezer just a fridge. As humans are when alive about 70-80% water. And the blood will freeze (cryogenics either removes the blood or adds a few chemicals to the body). For the real long term cadavers they get nasty after a few months. With a strict prohibition on opening their fridges. Without special precautions being taken first. Otherwise the bluebottles get out.

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No_Cartoonist981@reddit

I think they can charge the estate for it though?

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Consistent-Pirate-23@reddit

Assuming there is an estate. If there isn’t an estate and no one steps in to arrange it then they get something called a public health funeral.

People generally pay in order to have a say in how it’s run so the deceased’s wishes are met

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Linkyjinx@reddit

A State funeral if you will, what I am likely to be getting when I go as I’m not the favourite of family. This is very common, nobody accepts responsibility for the failed people. Once you are dead it doesn’t matter anyway.

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runrunrudolf@reddit

Can you attend these funerals? My dad is elderly and spends a lot of time abroad. He has no estate or money and his "wishes" are basically to just be chucked in a bin somewhere or thrown into a river. Obviously not doing that but I don't have money to arrange a funeral for someone who isn't that close to me and has no desire to even have a proper funeral.

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PsychologicalClock28@reddit

In short yes. But imagine it will be more of the functional bits of a funeral (which is moving the body from funeral home to wherever they will be cremated.) rather than anything with speeches/music/vicar.

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Extra-Sound-1714@reddit

Sorry not necessarily the case. Lots of local authorities do not let anyone attend the funeral to deter people from not paying. So real answer is it depends

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Ricky_Martins_Vagina@reddit

I like the idea of it being purely functional so not even a hearse or pallbearers or anything - just a man in a van (or men with ven), chucks the casket in the back of his Tranny van alongside the ladders and wooden planks and whatever else is rattling about back there, strap it down with a couple bungee cords, swings by Maccy's drive-thru en-route, gets to the crematorium and wheels it out upright on a sack trolley...

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Fair-North956@reddit

In the US, it’s just called Indigency Status and I believe the body will be just mass-cremated. (Assuming there are no assets). I’ve just had to start looking into that myself for a relative that’s been beyond miserable to everyone their entire life and has zero assets and lives in squalor. Be damned if I’m going into debt for them.

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hdhxuxufxufufiffif@reddit

Yes, they can recoup costs from the estate. Not directly from the family of the deceased, but if the executors distributed the estate without paying back the cost of the funeral, they'd be at risk of being personally liable for the debt.

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Toucani@reddit

What if a British citizen dies abroad? Are the family obliged to pay to have the body returned to the UK? Sounds awful but I'm in a similar situation but with a parent who is frequently spending time abroad.

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Voidarooni@reddit

There are no obligations on the family, only on the deceased person’s estate. The family can choose to pay, but are not required to.

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BumblebeeForward9818@reddit

Is seeing some conflation between these two entities based on op and other comments.

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Natsumi_Kokoro@reddit

They need travel insurance that will cover the cost of repatriation. If they don't have insurance. Arrangements can be made to have a simple funeral abroad if flying home isn't a cost you want incurred.

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Abject_Tumbleweed413@reddit

My dad died on holiday abroad. Luckily, his insurance covered the repatriation.

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RobertTheSpruce@reddit

In pretty much all death cases, expenses incurred because of the death are paid for out of the estate. Debts do no pass onto anyone else.

For example when my dad died, the middle son paid for the funeral before dividing the estate because dad died intestate.

Once the solicitors finished handling it and divided it up, middle brother received his third of everything, plus the cost of the funeral taken out of eldest brothers and mines share, along with a few other expenses he paid for.

If the council paid for the funeral, they would have received this rather than him before the shares were handed out.

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hdhxuxufxufufiffif@reddit

If they're on holiday, it would be covered by travel insurance if they have that. If they're resident abroad then it's going to depend on local laws.

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JohnCasey3306@reddit

Yeah they recoup it from the estate and of course add a premium for having had to do so that's well above the cost of just cremation.

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FerretChrist@reddit

Fuck it, if Noone's offered, let him cover it.

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SpamJavelin00@reddit

Shame you can’t just throw the body in a wheelie bin and be done with it .

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i_literally_died@reddit

Every single seagull in Brighton just turned and looked at you

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SpamJavelin00@reddit

That’s nice for them.

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Mr_Rottweiler@reddit

As someone who has been a binman for almost 34 years, I've always said "chuck me in the back of the truck."

But then I'd realise the shit it would cause down the transfer station we use, and they wouldn't be too happy about it. They're a bunch of miserable pricks as it is.

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Forgetful8nine@reddit

Which bin would they go in?

I can't see the recycling bin being a good choice, so it's between the general waste and garden waste...which for my area is also the food waste bin.

I guess general waste? If you end up in landfill, it's kinda like a burial, right? Or waste-to-energy is basically a cremation!

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KarmaIssues@reddit

Food waste surely?

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SpamJavelin00@reddit

Shame there isn’t a ‘thank god they’ve checked out ‘ bin. I wonder what colour it would be ?? 😂😂😂

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External-Praline-451@reddit

3 weeks between general waste collections where I am, so you'd have to time it right or else things could get a bit...🤮

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FragileRunner@reddit

Theoretically a body could be composted so garden/food waste would be the correct choice

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Exotic_Lobster6039@reddit

Well you can, but if it gets seen between pick up and drop off some people might get a bit twitchy about where it came from. You could probably get over that by tagging it with a laminated copy of the death certificate.

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SpamJavelin00@reddit

Not bothered who sees it , welcome to do with it whatever they like , like the old sofa I wouldn’t wait to get rid of last year . In the end I asked a friend whose company has a waste carriers licence to get rid of it . I could do the same with the body . If it’s near bonfire night , use it for a guy Fawkes

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Straight-Jacket-3280@reddit

That's not what's meant by a council funeral

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Chrolan1988@reddit

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT bank on this, it requires an application to the gov and if any of the next of kin’s work and earn any kind of reasonable income i.e. full time on minimum they will not award any money, regardless of the estate!

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Competitive-Fact-820@reddit

That's pretty much what the husband and I want - Direct Cremation.

We both agree we'd much rather people meet in the pub and get properly pissed to remember us instead of gathering for a funeral which tends to put people a bit on edge.

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chuckiestealady@reddit

Yes. This is what my dad did with his abusive mother.

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Shot_Journalist2440@reddit

You could do a pure cremation. As I understand it, there’s no service etc just the body being cremated.

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p1p68@reddit

Still costs, there's a wait list for cremation of a couple weeks at least. You still have to pay for refrigeration costs and then crem costs.

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Shot_Journalist2440@reddit

There are but you are in control of them. Generally it’s much quicker as they just use any slot. My aunt did it for her dad and he was done within a week.

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p1p68@reddit

Lucky you, we did my dad and in our area, poole dorset it was a 4 week wait. Still very expensive.

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

You still have to pay for that. Better to just do nothing and let the council deal.

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YetAnotherInterneter@reddit

The council will recover the costs from the estate.

Better to arrange it yourself so that you are in control of how much money is spent rather than the council spending the estate’s money without you.

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Bullseyesuccess@reddit

If the estate doesn't have any money then there's nothing they can do about it. OP won't have to personally pay for it.

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YetAnotherInterneter@reddit

No they won’t have to pay for it personally, but they either pay for it via the estate (deciding how much to spend on what themselves) or they let the council arrange everything in which case the council would take whatever money is available from the estate to cover the costs, meaning OP would receive less (or no) inheritance.

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

You're assuming that there is an estate, that OP is executor and that OP would even be a beneficiary. We know none of that.

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YetAnotherInterneter@reddit

Yeah this is true.

Obviously is that’s not the case, then it would makes sense to do nothing at let the council deal with it.

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Daveddozey@reddit

If there’s a will and ip is not executor then op won’t have to arrange or pay anything

If there is an estate, but no will, or if the will names op as executor, then op will have to fill in a form to get rid of it (well technically they could ignore it but that will lead to more costs on the estate)

If there is no will then op is a beneficiary so in their interests to reduce costs, even if that’s just means filling in a form to move administration to a professional.

However they have to be very careful to do nothing. Don’t access bank accounts to see how much money there is, don’t cancel credit cards, don’t remove any assets, from a wedding ring to a tv or that nice chair grandma always said she wanted to keep in the family.

Very unlikely there’s no estate — presumably the deceased would have a few clothes if nothing else. Liabilities may well outweigh the assets, that’s not OP’s problem.

The best way is to fill in the form renouncing the right to execute/administrate and literally do nothing. Or to just do it - just ensure they don’t spend a penny.

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Bullseyesuccess@reddit

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just adding that the council can only recover money from the estate if the estate has funds. If the estate has no money, the council will have to eat 100% of the cost.

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Kooky_Recognition958@reddit

They go to POTTERS FIELD

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Defiant-One-5967@reddit

My parents have funeral coverage as part of their life insurance. Does your mom? That’s always an easy solution.

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Cultural_Tank_6947@reddit

There's no legal "next of kin" status in the UK, so realistically you're not obliged to do anything if you don't want to.

If you do want to organise a funeral but don't want to pay for it, you can ask for money to be released from the estate, should there be any, to pay for it.

If there's no money, and you're unable/unwilling, then the council will organise a basic funeral with no service.

Same rule goes to the administering the estate. Even if you're named executor, you can decline. Even if you're left money, you can decline.

You'd never be liable for any debts unless you were a joint debt holder or guarantor.

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No_Connection9635@reddit

Can I ask if in the case the council organised it, would there be any market cost difference to arranging the most basic you can yourself? Essentially would there be a financial benefit to the council recouping it from the estate, or would they pay the same?

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Cultural_Tank_6947@reddit

If there was money in the estate, then yes the council would absolutely claim. Including an admin fee.

If there was no money, and no one was willing to pay for it, then the council would just do it under their public service obligations.

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Chrolan1988@reddit

Yeah, I think people need to keep in mind what a council *funeral* actually looks like in the event of such a thing, no time slot, no guests, no service, no ceremony, it just happens, no urn, no ashes.

There is the option to apply for money from the gov for a funeral, however if any of the applicants work full time, they will not be awarded any funds.

People really need to understand what it actually means to just refuse to pay.

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Samurai___@reddit

Where does the body go then?

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ConfidentReference63@reddit

The air

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hdhxuxufxufufiffif@reddit

No financial benefit but I believe the council can charge an admin cost for the staff time.

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Christine4321@reddit

Of course theres a legal ‘next of kin’ but what I think you mean is there is no obligation on a next of kin to do anything for the deceased from paying their debts to arranging their funeral. Clearing houses etc is a ‘social’ pressure placed on next of kin however if OP wished to apply her status as next of kin to legally inherit, legally obtain access to property and financial affairs, she can of course do so.

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Cultural_Tank_6947@reddit

I can't stress this enough, in the UK, next of kin has no legal status.

The rest, whatever. But legally, absolutely no meaning.

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Christine4321@reddit

Tell that to the NHS. Tell that to a coroner. Tell that to the police. Tell that to probate and intestate law.

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ThePistachioBogeyman@reddit

You need to tell that to yourself, as any one of those that you listed will say the same, NOK isn’t a legal thing

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odmirthecrow@reddit

If there is no will, next of kin follows a priority line decided by the government. Spouse/civil partner>children>parents>siblings. Unmarried partners and friends have no legal claim without a will.

Adults can decide who their NOK is, however this title grants them no legal rights, it is merely used by NHS/police to provide updates as necessary. It's literally just an emergency contact, not an automatically named legal executor of a will.

If you don't have a next of kin as an adult and you are incapacitated, doctors will do their best to find family to let them know, but if they do find someone, that someone does not have the legal right to make decisions on your behalf.

Under 18s' NOK is legally defined as someone with parental responsibility or legal guardianship. That does give them decision making rights on behalf of the under 18 year old, because legally speaking children can't make certain decisions.

I'm telling you this rather than the people you mentioned because they all already know.

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factualreality@reddit

None of which recognise a legal concept of 'next of kin'. The nhs will take into account the views of family but the only person with any specific legal standing would be an attorney under an lpa. Intestacy laws set out which relatives inherit but it isn't a simple 'next of kin' (for example, whether children receive anything depends on whether there is a spouse and the size of the estate, if the deceased was married, children get a share above 322k, the wife does not take it all in that scenario).

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

Hi, I work in the NHS. They are correct, NOK is a patient preference thing not a legal thing.

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SnooCats611@reddit

There is no legal "next of kin" status in the UK.

It's a meaningless term.

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ChallengingKumquat@reddit

There is a next of kin, but it's not a legal thing. If a single adult with no parents or adult children dies, who is their next of kin?

Now, on forms and suchlike they might put their sister or close friend, but that's just a preference and not a legal thing. If I write down somewhere that I consider Great Aunt Maude or John from Accounting to be my next of kin, they do not have any particular legal status and aren't legally obliged to do anything like pay for my funeral.

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AnonymousTimewaster@reddit

There's no legal "next of kin" status in the UK

What exactly do you mean by this?

If you die without a will (intestate), then your entire estate defaults to your next of kin (spouse > children > parents > siblings > grandparents > uncles/aunts > cousins)

But yes, debts aren't passed on, but anything in the estate must go towards paying them first before any inheritance is due.

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No_Cartoonist981@reddit

I just did the online body collection and disposal service for my grandparent and will do the same for my mother. Father has filled out the paperwork to gave his body go to science anyway so that’s sorted.

It’s a few hundred quid still to go down the body disposal route but you just upload a copy of death cert, pay, and done.

If science doesn’t want me I’ll expect the same for myself so it’s not a cruel thing for my family. We are just practical and frugal!

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

If your dad has donated his body to a medical school be aware that it very often doesn’t actually happen and he should have a backup plan as well.

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No_Cartoonist981@reddit

Yes it’s more a life long dream of his. If it doesn’t happen he will go down the online body disposals route but I may pay the extra £50 to get the ashes back to put on the moors but the rest of the family doesn’t have as strong a connection to anywhere so we haven’t paid the extra yet.
MIL is still at the top of the stairs.. I think.. so even with good intentions we just don’t!

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MEaster@reddit

If it makes you feel better, my grandparents have been under the side table for the past 5 years.

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Competitive-Fact-820@reddit

MIL and FIL are in the bottom of the wardrobe and have been there for 10-12 years depending on who's ashes you are looking at.

The dog on the other hand is pride of place on the mantlepiece.

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Cheese_Dinosaur@reddit

My mother has 5 siblings, her and the next two from one dad (who died) and the next 3 from Gran’s second husband.
When Gran died they used scales and weighed out my Gran into two exact same weight urns and buried half with each of her husbands… 😳

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EponymousTitus@reddit

Why does it not often happen? Arent medical schools needing bodies for students to learn on?

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WackyWhippet@reddit

In my nan's case she had a post mortem, and because we only learned about this wish after she died there wouldn't have been time to arrange it anyway. I can't remember the time limit but it's not very long after death so you really need to be prepared in advance.

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Stifton@reddit

It's really really bereaucratic as you can imagine, a lot of admin and a lot of ethics and consent has to go into it and if things change, that has to happen all over again. I had a regular when I worked in a pub, an older fella, who was and still is planning on donating his body for science purposes when he dies. It was a years long process, and when he got diagnosed with cancer he had to go back to the institution he was donating his body to, to go through a lot of the legality of it, it's arduous, but he was/is very keen to do it so he just did it. It did seem like he did have a very good relationship with the people who would be recieving his body though, and it did seem like they cared that he had no reservations about it

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LazyLady68@reddit

If you die too far away from the Medical School, then they can refuse to collect the body, too. There is always a need to have a backup plan.

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sarahc13289@reddit

The organisation will check to see if the body is suitable for what they need or researching, sometimes final illnesses affect the body in a way that makes it not suitable.

I looked after someone who donated their brain for dementia research, however when they did their checks post mortem it turned out that she’d passed away from meningitis and so it wasn’t able to be used. It was heartbreaking for the family.

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

They are, but the way you die can make your body not suitable (certain infections or injuries for example or if you donate organs in some cases).

Also they only have limited space for storage so if they are full when you die then it can't happen.

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SnooHabits8484@reddit

The estate pays, though. There’s no requirement to pay out of pocket. If the estate’s insolvent then a public health funeral is free.

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T-h-e-d-a@reddit

As other people have said, council funeral, and I can thoroughly recommend the book Ashes to Admin by Evie King which is a human and hilarious account of her time as a council funeral officer (although she makes very clear that she was an outlier in how much effort and care she put into it).

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Cheese_Dinosaur@reddit

Sounds fab. Just went and bought it!

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MonkeyHamlet@reddit

Came here to recommend this book - such a good read.

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Smenryy@reddit

Thanks for the recommendation. Love a random memoir book like this!

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Tattycakes@reddit

I’m reading this right now and it’s very sweet and funny and interesting!

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ProfessorYaffle1@reddit

AS others have said, you can't be forced to do anything. If you are named as executor under her will you are responsible in that capacity for organising the funeral, but you can renounce that role (as long as you haven't started doing anything connected with the estate) .

If neither you or your brother organises it then ultimate the local authority will do so, and will recover costs from the estate, if the estate has a any value.

Alternatively, if she odes leave anything financially it would be open to you to instruct a solicitor to do the work connected with administering the estate which could include having them arrange a funeral and/or cremation, f you wanted.

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Lach0X@reddit

Council will bury them. Graveyards have plots for this sort of thing. May be put in with strangers, no headstones allowed. So make sure its definitely something you want to do.

Source - I'm a gravedigger.

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PocketRocketTrumpet@reddit

If you are their willed estate or legal next of kin, you can always check with the local hospitals or universities and donate their bodies for science.

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wopsywoo@reddit

The council will arrange a cremation. My great aunty died. I only found out after an appeal in the paper by the police looking for her next of kin. I contacted them, not sure why. They asked me to sign paperwork to "claim" her body, I refused.

I got a letter telling me that she was cremated on X date. She didn't have any money, she lived alone in a council bungalow, no will because she didn't have anything. They council asked for a contribution. I ignored it and never heard anything again.

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Extra-Sound-1714@reddit

Will they have any estate? If yes and it will be over a £1000, arrange a direct cremation. If the local authority do it they will charge the estate for all their costs so it will be more.

If there is no estate and you want nothing from their home, just tell any caller you will not be paying for any funeral. They may try and pressure or guilt trip you. You can just say something like if they knew why you are refusing to pay they would understand, but you are not going to share very private details of your life with a stranger. They will then organise and pay for a cremation. There is no funeral to attend.

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HeartsNHardcovers31@reddit

That’s interesting to think about.

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oooohshinythingy@reddit

I would just have nothing to do with making arrangements for the body moving from hospital to funeral place. I’d let someone else deal with the death certificate etc. I think here if no one claims the body they get a paupers funeral through local council unless they left money etc. then that’s might be used ? Oh, and if a close relative is claiming benefits they could apply for a funeral grant

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WesternUnusual2713@reddit

I had the same situation. Speak to the council, they'll help you organise for them to pay for it.

OP when she does go, be prepared for some really complex feelings. My mother was incredibly abusive in some extremely inventive ways, and when she died I was completely shocked by how complicated my feelings were. Grief for her, grief for the mother I never had and would never get now, grief for me, and a lot of resentment that she died without ever acknowledging or apologising for the shit she did to me. I would have loved a heads up on that so I'm sharing my experience.

I hope you have a peaceful and soft life these days OP.

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RadaghasztII@reddit

they must be proud to have you as a daughter

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AnimalCrossingGuy444@reddit

Why should their behaviour towards OP be rewarded?

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FindingHerStrength@reddit

How dare you try to shame OP.

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SDBrown7@reddit

About as proud as OP is of their parents. Some parents are awful people, and even their death is an inconvenience. Your privilege does not apply to everyone.

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Everyones_Dead_Dave@reddit

You got a brown bin right?

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GaiaGoddess1963@reddit

First off, if you're over the age of 18 and on your own, YOU are now responsible for improving where your parents lacked. I don't think any parent's goal is to be abusive or create and grow dysfunctional humans. We all had 💩 ty parents... they just didn't know any better. Trauma or the same upbringing you got was their "training". They had no sense that recovering from that was on them past a certain age. Harsh truth, but I could have kept going on as an angry person who took it out on my kids or do the work to improve my reaction to stress. I chose the latter; and my kids give me grace... as I was able to give to my parents.

B. If your parents were/are just all-around 💩 heads with no self-awarenes, and still unable to admit to the problems they cause, and no work with therapists, I don't blame you for not wanting to pay for anything. A responsible person, parent or not, should make their own arrangements ahead of time. A responsible person cares enough to not burden anyone with final arrangements.

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blazej84@reddit

I’ve had this happen to my auntie and uncle to be fair they were useless parents he was an abusive and an alcoholic .My mum (his sister)paid for his funeral (we were only ones that attended)but when his wife died the council paid for a paupers funeral their kids didn’t attend either .

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Opposite-Ad-7317@reddit

There is no law against burying human remains in your garden? A good spade costs £20 in b&q

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Murky-Wind2222@reddit

funerals are payable from the estate of the dead person. This provides relief from inheritance tax.

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RattieIcePP23@reddit

If she dies in hospital you can just get her cremated there, its a very quick cheap process ans will just come out of her estate. Cheaper then a whole funeral

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Suitable_Balance101@reddit

Council will pay for a cremation

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Consistent-Pirate-23@reddit

Eventually I am going to sort out a funeral plan for myself, I’m only mid 40s but my sister died at 39 suddenly.

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FantasticWait7109@reddit

If you don't want to make any arrangements for her funeral, then you don't have to.

If your mother has any money in her estate, then some of that will be used to cover funeral costs (the bank can often write a check direct to the funeral director). In that situation you could arrange a direct cremation (where there's no service, etc.), get the bank to write a check to the funeral director, and leave them to it without doing anything else. If nobody claims the ashes the funeral director will often scatter them themselves.

If there's no money in the estate, nobody has to pay for the funeral if they don't want to. In that case the council will organise a paupers funeral (or its official term "public health funeral"). In this situation you may want to let the council or the hospital where the person died know to speed things along (i.e. tell them you don't want to know or organise the funeral).

Paupers funerals can vary area to area, but usually there'll be a very basic service, and if no family are present, than an official from the council will attend the funeral, just so someone was at the funeral. So while extremely basic, they are more dignified than the name suggests!

So to go back to your original question, no you don't have to arrange the funeral. You don't even have to speak to anyone, register the death, etc. however it may be a courtesy to tell any officials this (to get things moving with whoever arranges it, even if its the council) and than move on.

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chicaneuk@reddit

The cheapest thing is a direct cremation at about £1500. You just arrange it with the funeral home and in about two months or so you will get their ashes returned to you to do with as you wish.

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bamboob@reddit

I don't know how it works there, but seems to be like in the state, you might be able to just donate the body to science

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LichenTheMood@reddit

She can make arrangements ahead of time, if you just ignore it then the local council will arrange a pauper’s funeral and may try to recover from her estate if there is anything of worth there.

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keeponkeepingup@reddit

Yeah my dad told me recently that he has paid for his funeral. I was like. Umm. Have you got something to tell me? 😅

Very nice thing to do if you love your loved ones though. Doesn't sound like OPs mum does.

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No-Requirement3535@reddit

She will receive a paupers funeral where the local council will just cremate them without a service im unsure if you receive their ashes back or if they will just dispose of them a former neighbour who had a major fall out with his siblings was given a paupers funeral because they didnt want to be involved

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Pedantichrist@reddit

The parents’ estate pays for it. If that does not cover it, the state covers it.

You are never liable for the debts of anyone who dies, but their estate obviously is.

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Remarkable-Win4635@reddit

I get where you are coming from.

You don't have to have a ceremony, just send her off for cremation. Then when the ashes come back, find a location to dump her and get everyone together at said place for an hour and do it.

You don't need to speak, minimal effort, but saves your social standing if you need it.

If you don't care/need the social aspect, still get the cremation done and dump her somewhere you know she'd hate.

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DinkyPrincess@reddit

You’d get the bare minimum as paid for by the council or whatever.

I also wouldn’t be paying for mine. Saying that she’s probably been coerced into paying for one of those funeral plans anyway.

I wouldn’t be attending either way.

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cyberllama@reddit

I didn't go to my mother's funeral. If your family is anything like mine, turn your phone off on the day when it comes. Couple of drinks in them and the texts and calls started flooding in. I did respond to one to point out that they hadn't actually told me when the funeral was so how exactly they were expecting me to be there, I don't know. No joke, the response was that they didn't have my number.

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joshii87@reddit

My dad was strong-armed into going to his mother’s funeral (they’d fallen out years before but she was always generally favourable towards me even though I hadn’t really seen her for nearly 25 years). It was bittersweet and solved nothing. My dad’s twin brother is now some sort of bejewelled local drugs kingpin and most of the funeral party was made up of various tarts he’d been with over the years. My dad sheepishly moved to the sidelines after the first few rounds of Sweet Caroline and we made our excuses and left.

Sometimes ignorance really is bliss!

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DinkyPrincess@reddit

I mean. At least it’s a cool of a little surreal story.

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DinkyPrincess@reddit

Oh I had that with my dad.

They buried him in Italy as he moved back. I tried to contact them as I was meant to be executor of the will and he’d left me an incorrect number when he emigrated with 2 days notice.

My godmother gleefully told me his estate had been “used up” for hospital care but I was very welcome to contribute to the funeral. The one I knew nothing about. But apparently I was meant to be able to drop life and run there and just know where to go.

Rest assured I never spoke to them again.

Thankfully I don’t expect any family will call when she dies.

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barrynl@reddit

We fling them in the river . Then charge the estate claiming it was a lavish funeral with all the trimmings

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Devil_Eyez87@reddit

You can just get them cremated without ant ceremony or the whole funeral mess. As others have said even if you do nothing the local authority will charge you for it.

As I've told my own parents there will be no, carrying the coffin words in the cemetery, it will be a private cremation and a reception in a pub

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MrsSEM84@reddit

You can just refuse to take responsibility. If your parents leave any money or assets the cost can be reclaimed from that, if not their local council will pay.

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ledow@reddit

They will try to pressure you to be the executor / funeral arranger, and you can just continue to refuse. Then it gets sorted.

No debt from them can transfer to you unless you want it to. They can't make you have any part in it (but they will try).

Companies are often ARSEHOLES in this regard when someone dies, chasing people who want nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter.

Unless you choose to be the executor, someone else will have to do it, and there are professions that it falls back onto.

Unless you choose to arrange the funeral, someone else will have to do it, and there are professions that it falls back onto.

They'll take their cut (of course they will) but from the deceased's estate. You're under no obligation to do anything or pay anything.

Happens thousands of times a day, no doubt, whether the relatives are untraceable, unwilling or unable to deal with it.

The only question really is whether they have any estate worth leaving (i.e. a house which they've paid off etc.) which you might want a part of. Because the costs of such will come out of that. And the executor would still be required to look for you and try to give you what you're owed.

Pretty much, if you want, you can just carry on with your life, ignore them, and someone else will have to step in an do it.

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Scared-Engineer-8405@reddit

They can get a funeral policy and pay for the policy. It’s like insurance. That will deal with the costs at minimum and possibly other arrangements.

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VespaRed@reddit

Donate the body to a medical
College

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Curious_Substance236@reddit

Its not China. You aren't obliged to. And that's not a dig at you or China. But I'm China, you are legally obligated to support your elders. In the UK you are not, including in death.

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Proud_Smell_4455@reddit

Reminds me of the time my dad died and my mother gave the funeral director my (12 years old at the time) card details instead of her own. My grandparents discovered this when they got a call from the funeral director asking for the money, which they ended up paying instead. And I discovered this when my grandparents told me about it years later.

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Giralia@reddit

You ask for a referral to adult social care. They will go through mums estate to see if she has enough to cover it. If not they will pay for basic funeral

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JustQuestioningCosas@reddit

Speak to your parents ahead of time and have them plan and pay for their funeral. Tell them if they don’t, you won’t be holding one for them so it’s really in their best interests. They can do a funeral plan.

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ecapapollag@reddit

That's a weird way of looking at it. They'll be dead, their best interests will no longer apply.

If the relationship is really bad, I'm not sure what benefit to either party would be served by discussing this ahead of time. OP doesn't want to pay, it doesn't help them. The parents would probably be very upset to hear their child doesn't want to be responsible for their funeral, it wouldn't help them.

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JustQuestioningCosas@reddit

Because if they want a funeral, they can plan and pay for one. It gives them an opportunity to have their last wishes if this is what they want. I don’t understand why that’s a weird way to look at it. Funerals are important to some, not to others. Clearly it’s something significant in OP’s family otherwise OP wouldn’t be asking. So why doesn’t OP talk to them about it and absolve themselves of the guilt?

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Games4Two@reddit

Tell them if they don’t, you won’t be holding one for them so it’s really in their best interests

I know what you mean, but is it really in their best interests? The way I see it is that my funeral is for whoever is left to care about me; ultimately, it makes no difference to me whatsoever as I'll be dead.

I think I'm in a minority, but I see funerals as an event for the living. I honestly don't mind what happens to my remains when I die.

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JustQuestioningCosas@reddit

It’s in their best interests if they want a funeral. It wouldn’t be in your best interests, but like you say, it would be in most people’s best interests.

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LordBoomDiddly@reddit

I don't get why you can't just bury some in the garden, it's good for nature.

Or the local woodland

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CatsChat@reddit

Her estate can pay. Or the council can do a pauper’s funeral if she has no money. No service etc, just cremation

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klutzosaurus-sex@reddit

I loved my dad very much, but I was broke and as a family we have always had a sort of when you’re gone what’s left is just a shell and it’s silly to spend a bunch of money on it attitude. So I donated his body - he was an organ donor and would have approved. They took what they could use and sent me back the cremated remains. I had a memorial at a redwood park. I think altogether I spent about $400. Someone might still be seeing the world through his eyes, which I love.

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elaine4queen@reddit

You can have a non attendance cremation which the hospital will arrange. I can’t remember what we paid but it’s something if you get the ashes. I don’t k know if there’s a charge if you don’t.

It didn’t make any sense to have a funeral for my dad but my brother wanted to get the ashes, and we sprinkled them in his garden.

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NatalieeWolf4511@reddit

You do not automatically have to take responsibility for this if you do not want to, literally anyone can contact the funeral directors and whoever does becomes the client at which point as far as I know they take responsibility but would usually like to have next of kin listed-this doesn’t really do anything so can be listed as your brother.

As others have said the council can arrange if nobody is willing but may recoup costs from the estate.

Other options-if your parents take out a funeral plan with co op if they pass after the first two years there is some kind of policy about next of kin not having to pay the rest

Direct cremation is considerably less costly and is exactly what it says on the tin- no funeral service they are just processed and cremated

Donate to science usually they will collect the person, use them for whatever purpose they require and then will usually offer cremation and return of remains all free of charge

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Illustrious-Bass9651@reddit

The council pays for a cremation. Just don’t expect English oak, something basic along the lines or cardboard. Any estate may be left to pay the charges.

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pocahontasjane@reddit

Funeral expenses are usually paid for by the deceased's estate. If they don't have anything then the council will pay for it if no living relatives will. They're not expensive so she'll more than likely have enough to cover the cost.

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Daveddozey@reddit

Crucially the cost comes off before any assets. Have £5k in the bank and £60k loans, funeral gets paid for, then the loans.

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Proof-Order2666@reddit

Tell your mother straight to arrange a funeral as you want nothing to do with it £2000 for a basic

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Dissidant@reddit

You would hope if they have their faculties they at least have a pre-payment funeral setup or something like that.
Else as others have said unless there is an estate to draw from the council will do it (bare minimum)

They might well come to regret treating you that way, since when your health declines there are other considerations such as palliative, preferred place of care etc thats not on you though

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epicpownage1234@reddit

Yeah my parents sucked, I moved out at 15. Addiction, abuse etc. I'm now my mothers POA and fathers lasting POA and responsible for their funerals even if I don't see all that much of them today. It's brought me peace. Either knowing they eventually respected/trusted me enough out of the siblings and for me to just have knowledge I still did the right thing regardless. I'd personally recommend reconsidering it. It's not like you'll be POA, it's just arranging a funeral. If you can close the chapter on your own terms doing the right thing it might give you some more peace. That's just my perspective.

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BaseballParking9182@reddit

It sounds like they took advantage of you at 15 and they're still doing it.

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epicpownage1234@reddit

I have 3 siblings, I just decided to take it on. My mother has dementia and my father nearly died from sepsis so lasting POA is precautionary on his side. I'm Christian and dedicate my life to my siblings and their children, part of why I haven't decided to have children myself. I love the family I'm close with and it brings me happiness knowing I can overcome those experiences and still do the right thing, I can promise you that my mother with dementia is not taking advantage of me.

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WiganGirl-2523@reddit

It sounds like you have found peace in your decision.

Good luck to you.

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NeilSilva93@reddit

Sounds like you're doing it out of some sort of weird guilt or debt to them rather than "doing the right thing". If they were shit to you you don't owe them anything.

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Wires1996@reddit

They will do a poorpers funeral. They will put them in the ground but if someone buys the plot they will dump the coffin on top. Thats what happened to my great uncle

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notaspecificthing@reddit

When my birth mother dies I don't even plan on going to her funeral. My nan has organised her burial ahead of time because she knows no one else will do it for my birth mother

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noir_lord@reddit

Same with my father, for all I knew he's already dead.

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deceptive-uk@reddit

You can just do an unattended cremation and have a memorial, if you dont want to go the funeral route.

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JohnCasey3306@reddit

Nobody has to have a funeral.

They'll just get cremated and the local authority will try to recoup the cost of that (at a ridiculously inflated level) from anything of value they owned when the estate is liquidated.

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Friendly_External345@reddit

Look at doing the right thing your your parent by way of burying her an act of forgiveness for her failings. Sometimes doing the right thing doesn't feel very nice and there's no immediate pay off, but when we do we get the rewards in the right season.

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thejadedfalcon@reddit

And for some, sending the body off to be used for testing explosives is an act of catharsis. What's your point?

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SeaIntelligent4504@reddit

I think the "right thing" is so different for different families, that there is no right thing to do in these circumstances.

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shegaveitallaway@reddit

I'm in a loosely similar situation but with my children's father (never married). He is from another country and his only relatives there are his older sister and brother who will likely die before him. He has nobody here.

He owns the house which we live in which I'd always assumed would go to our kids. Does this mean when he dies, if I didn't pay the costs, they'd force the sale of the house to cover the expenses? Even if the kids were under 18?

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WiganGirl-2523@reddit

It seems unlikely that they would make kids homeless to recover a coupla thousand but what do I know? And what about you? Have you a claim to the property? You might want to get legal advice.

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JoPOWz@reddit

Just to add that your only obligation is "legal disposal of the body" - burial, cremation or the mysteriously titled "any other means". You aren't obligated to have any type of service, you can simply organise something like a direct cremation, which is substantially cheaper and would ensure any legal obligation is met without relying on an authority-funded version (which I suspect would be funded from her estate).

Probably a better question for the r/LegalAdviceUK subreddit if you want specifics.

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Mrs_B-@reddit

We paid for a parent's funeral, but due to family issues her remains were never collected. The Funeral Directors took care of it discreetly.

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opopkl@reddit

Burial at sea is an option.

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HumourNoire@reddit

"Wheeeeee!"

Sorry, the image was inescapable. Standing on the deck, holding the launch rope, watching a final perfect arc of projectile motion as the shroud flaps behind it.

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opopkl@reddit

Or launched into space.

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WiganGirl-2523@reddit

Is there a will? If so, who is named as executor? POA?

If these documents exist, and you are named, then tell your parents to change them. They can name your brother or the man in the moon, but you don't want any involvement.

"...it will fall on me.."

Only if you let it. They can't make you.

I would suggest that the real problems will arise while they are still alive. As their health declines they will turn to you. Be prepared.

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FederalAd329@reddit

Donate to science

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Itsamefranknfurter@reddit

My mum has stated she wants cremating and scattered on the beach. My gran when she died she wanted cremating in a "cardboard coffin on a bonfire"

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jasilucy@reddit

The funeral costs come out of your parents estate, like all debts they owe are all settled before any money is given to next of kin.

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Mental_Body_5496@reddit

Who is listed as executors in their will?

Thats their job really.

I would start putting together a box of family memories now for safe keeping when you visit .

Then just decline any involvement.

Could will provide a basic cremation if there isnt any money in her estate.

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Second_Guess_25@reddit

Here in Scotland I think it's called a 'Health' funeral. The council covers the cost of a basic funeral, family aren't allowed to attend and if it's a burial - the body gets placed into a designated (and unmarked) mass grave.

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KhaelonVoss@reddit

I did give a factual, legal view, but really, I think you're best just going to a funeral director and telling them of the situation and saying that you want minimal input.

But funerals aren't for the deceased. How can they be? They're dead. They are for those that remain. Not doing a suitable funeral would be to snub anyone who remains. Including, perhaps your brother. And he may be the person who could arrange this.

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KhaelonVoss@reddit

In this case, the local authority (or sometimes the NHS trust if the person died in hospital) has a legal duty to arrange a basic funeral under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984. Previous legislation existed in previous years. For example, the Poor Law of 1601 which formalised the Church's responsibility (now LA/NHS). We have never left people just sat on their sofas once passed.

It's often called a “public health funeral” or, ages ago, a “pauper’s funeral”.

The cost of a Public health funeral would be about £1,000 to £2,500. This would be recovered by the LA/NHS. An executor who distributes money to beneficiaries before paying debts can become personally liable.

Scottish terminology differs slightly, but the principles are similar.

Because funeral expenses are a priority debt, banks will usually release money directly from the deceased’s account to pay funeral costs even before probate is granted. That applies both to regular funeral directors (they did this in the case of my Dad, which saved us having to pay upfront). Often council funerals are the same.

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Chordsy@reddit

You don't have to have a funeral at all, you can just pay for a direct cremation which is around £1k.

Then it's up to the people who cared about the people to organise a funeral/memorial service. Doesn't have to be your responsibility.

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Positive-Mud-11@reddit

You don’t have to have a funeral. My dad has arranged for his body to be collected and cremated when he dies.

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Beautiful_Path_3519@reddit

Did this for a relative. Ask the funeral director for a price for "straight to crem". Very quick visit to their office to sign the paperwork. Body is transported to council crematorium, you are not told what time the cremation will be (normally it's out of hours).FD phones you when the ashes are ready to collect from their office.

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Ambitious-Elk-3350@reddit

I cut mine off a few years back. The state take care of it. Paupers grave or something.

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NooOfTheNah@reddit

Any chance they will be open to setting up a prepaid funeral plan?

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CopperRockQueen@reddit

Usually the deceased's estate pays for it if they have sufficient funds. If not, then there is a funeral fund which can be applied for if either deceased or funeral arranger are on benefits. Otherwise the funeral would be funded by NHS if they died in hospital or public health if they died in the community. So it's your call if you want to take the responsibility or add to the current burdens on the taxpayer.

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quite_acceptable_man@reddit

A funeral isn't actually necessary, you can have a 'direct cremation', or 'unattended funeral' which is basically where the body is delivered direct to the crematorium in a plain van - the plain ones you see sometimes with 'private ambulance' written on the side in plain letters.

No hearse, no mourners, no service, no coffin going through curtains, no nothing. Literally just delivered to the back door of the crematorium, the cremation carried out and the ashes returned.

Of course you will get other family members telling you that you should organise a proper funeral - at which point you ask them how much they're prepared to pay for it...

I'm quite familiar with this because a relative had one, and my Dad wants one as well.

He's had to organise funerals for older relatives, and he finds the funeral industry very predatory.

He's even told me to shop around and get quotes!

Not sure i will be 100% in the right frame of mind for that, but I know where he's coming from.

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Georgeshair@reddit

If you don't want to organise a funeral, there's an option called direct cremation. This is basically an unattended cremation without a funeral service.

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MrPloppyHead@reddit

I think it’s paid by their estate. So if they have money in the estate use that. It’s not your money it’s theirs.

Trying to keep their money but not pay for their funeral from the estate would be a bit weird. I.e. I don’t like my parents so fuck their funeral but I am happy to take their money.

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SpamJavelin00@reddit

I’m looking forward to this situation also . I am one of 5 children & have often squarely shown I am not in the clique nor even considered part of the family - but I bet they ask me to pay toward abusive alcoholic mothers funeral !! I’ll remind them that I remain squarely outside the ‘circle ‘ & they wanted favour & control… they have it , which includes funeral payments !! I’ll wish them luck and block their numbers Touche !! . 😂😂😂👌👌👌

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74jax@reddit

You don't have to. I know so many people who haven't had funerals since covid. It is not a necessity.

A burial, or cremation if s all that is needed. You don't need to announce it, attend etc.

The Estate Executor will sort the payment via the Estate funds.

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Scrappys_Gal@reddit

You don't have to have a funeral.

My partner's dad died last year, he (the dad) didn't care about having a funeral and it would have only had a handful of people in attendance, so we just didn't have one. He was cremated through co-op and we collected his ashes in a tub, no urn or anything.

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BabyBackStribz@reddit

You may consider this extreme but I saw a man in a similar situation. He had them cremated and sold the ashes on an oddity selling facebook page for 5 dollars a small vial and 10 dollars for the vial of ashes and the story of why they were a dirt bag/why he was selling their ashes. Recouped the money lost on cremation and made some money. Surprisingly there are a lot of people in the market for human ashes.

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_rayquaza_@reddit

Public health funeral, also known as a paupers funeral. My relative who was an awful person had one. The ashes came back in a plastic caddy (a bit like the food waste recycling caddies). The money comes from the estate if there is any, and there's no service.

My mum has a prepaid funeral plan and those are becoming more popular. Sets out exactly what she wants and is already paid for (she loves telling me about her funeral plans and has done for many years, she's an odd lady). Depends on the person deciding to buy a plan though.

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PrincessPK475@reddit

Being no contact with my own for many years I totally get it.... So while this sounds harsh they are gone and this is now pragmatics to make the situation as least painful as possible. Their funeral, their problem, if they want something other than a biodegradable box then it's on them to sort their shit out and not burden you with it.

An actual loving parent would already have this covered and will have thought about it without you having to ask the questions, just saying....

There are insurance's specifically to cover funeral costs.... You can suggest they take one out for themselves so their costs are covered, if not I'm not sure if you can take one out on their behalf, speak to an advisor.

It's like a tenner a month and often doesn't need medical history because it's for a small set sum for a specific purpose.

Then simply don't claim the body and when the council call you or track you down inform them they were covered and give them the insurance dets or point them to a person who would have those details or do nothing and let them take it from any estate they had that you've probs been disinherited from anyway.

Job done.... Byeeeee.

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Yikes44@reddit

I'm not sure if anyone else has said this already but you can opt for a direct cremation and no actual funeral service at all. That's probably the cheapest option unless you want to have absolutley nothing to do with it.

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ShortDevelopment905@reddit

If there's an estate you'll be harassed until it comes in.

My Dad's small pension took eight months to pay out, and I was harassed by the coroner for it while I had just got done being homeless and was getting back on my feet.

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OkIncrease6030@reddit

Just get them cremated and have a private party/ceremony to commemorate them, either at home or somewhere meaningful to them. That’s what we did with our dad, with whom both my sibling and I had a complex, not very friendly relationship.

It cost around £1000 total. We did have a bit of a funeral-type thing even though we didn’t like him much. He was our father, after all, and he was an interesting person who wasn’t ALL bad: maybe around 75%. 😅 Also, we didn’t want to disrespect his entire family by not doing right by him. Funerals are for the living.

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jimicus@reddit

You don’t pay for it anyway.

Your mum’s estate pays for it.

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TheSecretIsMarmite@reddit

Funeral costs come out of the estate, they are not paid for by you. If your parent cannot afford it then your parents district council will hold a public health funeral.

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ChadHanna@reddit

As an executor I requested a cremation at the convenience of funeral director and crematorium. No attendance necessary. It is the responsibility of whoever is executor of the will or administrator of the estate.

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BigDumbGreenMong@reddit

I have a very similar relationship with my mother - so I sympathize with your situation.

When my stepdad died a while ago, I learned that reasonable funeral costs can be paid out of the deceased's estate, so it doesn't cost you anything. The executor will need to manage that.

My stepdad died in debt. He was in a care home, and the social security payment for the care home fees had been paid into his account just before he died, so hadn't yet been paid to the home - and we were told that money could be used to pay for funeral costs because that takes priority over repaying any debts.

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Sinclair1982@reddit

My Uncle made it clear that he wanted no funeral or wake, whilst waiting for Cancer to take him. Upon his passing, he was cremated and his Ashes returned to my Aunt.

Thats it. Done.

My Aunt declined decided to have a Celebration of my Uncles life, but made it clear it was separate to my Uncles passing and something she wanted to do.

Several of my relatives have now changed their funeral plans to be similar - no funeral, no fuss and no large expense.

I've also made it clear that this is what I wish to happen when I pass.

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PinItYouFairy@reddit

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UniqueTart6744@reddit

My mother-in-law died during COVID so we couldn’t have a funeral. We arranged a direct cremation instead, and didn’t have to deal with anything, they took care of it all, including scattering her ashes. It still cost about £1000 but that’s so much less than a funeral would have.

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ASpookyBitch@reddit

I have wondered the same thing regarding a family member that I have cut all contact with. I was worried it would be a cost that I got lumbered with at … some point…

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Jay_CD@reddit

This may have been covered in their wills. It might be that your parents have already paid for something so maybe you need to have that conversation with them, if not their wishes on what to do with their remains should be set out in the will.

I assume that your parents will leave something in their estate - that should cover the funeral expenses. There's no need to spend a fortune on the funeral itself if you so choose, you can even skip pretty much everything if you like - all you need to do is pay for the cremation or whatever they want.

If not then the local authority will pick up the tab.

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DaveChild@reddit

their wishes on what to do with their remains should be set out in the will.

But it's worth noting those wishes are not legally binding. They're a wishlist. The executor(s) decide how to dispose of the remains within the law, but are not obligated to follow what's in the will.

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CrabbyGremlin@reddit

It’s not a given that local authority will pay for it. I learned this when my dad died. He didn’t have enough in his account to pay for it, I was very unwell at the time and out of work, my sibling was distanced from my father but not entirely estranged. They did some kind of investigation and came to the conclusion that due to her still having some contact we wouldn’t be entitled to any financial help. Some other local authorities may be more giving, but they will endeavour to recoup costs from an immediate relative in most cases unless you can prove you either simply don’t have the money or are no contact with your parent.

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colt-45-659@reddit

Yes I believe what they'd call a pauper's funeral if nothing is organised.

Depending on what happens with your mother's estate when she passes, the bank would release money from it to pay for a funeral if a standard funeral were to go ahead. Not entirely sure how it'd work if no official arrangements. Hope that is helpful.

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CoconutBandita@reddit

It would usually fall to the executors to ensure everything is carried out according to the will.

If you're an executor, you might have an obligation to do this, though I imagine you can resign your duties.

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SnooHabits8484@reddit

You can’t demand a particular type of funeral in your will. Dead hand rule.

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Resali@reddit

This is correct. In England & Wales, any funeral wishes in your Will are just that - wishes which are not legally binding.

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Fantastic_Picture384@reddit

Maybe there is still time to repair the damage in the relationship.

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dinkidoo7693@reddit

My best mates mother was a vile abusive drunk. She was awful to all her kids and chose to put them in the foster care system where the eldest 2 were separated and moved to other areas. She had no money or property and my friend hadn’t seen her in nearly 20 years (her mum refused to see any of them) so they refused to pay for a funeral. The council did a no service cremation. As far as I’m aware nobody picked the ashes up.

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Strangely__Brown@reddit

Councils provide pauper funerals for those who lack the ability to pay.

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Significant-Yak-2373@reddit

If they have no property or anything to sell then you just tell them you have e no money and the council will do a cardboard box cremation.

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HumourNoire@reddit

Just to point it out, funerals are for the living, not the dead.

If you had one good memory on a holiday somewhere, go there, play some music she hated, let off some fireworks.

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Icy_Bit_403@reddit

There are benefits available for funeral costs - you didn't mention if you are on low income, and I think you mean more about the fact she's not been a mother to you. I think it will be a legal issue of what you can get away with. depending on where someone dies it might be very simple.

If you're on speaking terms at all could you encourage them to consider naming a company as their executor of their wills, if they have them?

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Sprog3015@reddit

Work at a crematorium and cemetery. As others have said, the council will pay for it and claim back from parents estate. We call them environmentals. There will be a designated funeral director in your local area that'll have the contract from the council. So your parents would pretty much follow the same pathway as any other deceased.

The funeral would either be a no service burial or no service cremation. Either way the cemetery or crematorium will need to hold details of your parents final resting place. Either the grave location or where they are scattered.

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FreeBogwoppits@reddit

The local council will do it all. You don't even have to register the death, they'll do that as well if need be. Council funded funerals are basic, but there'll be a proper funeral service and cremation. Mourners won't know it's a council arrangement. The council will try to recover the cost from the deceased's estate.

(I am also the daughter of a vile mother. Fortunately for me, mine pre-arranged and pre-paid her funeral. Unfortunately for her, the provider (Co-op) did the very least they could do. )

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pinkdaisylemon@reddit

So if the council do it do they still give you the ashes if you want them?

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Sea-Upstairs-2837@reddit

seems like that’s to co-op way. they don’t seem to have improved since that huge news expose on them years ago that showed them stacked up and improperly storing bodies, etc.

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Active-Hotel1719@reddit

Have you checked if anything is already in place? A lot of people have funeral plans already sorted do you know if it will definatly be your responsibility?

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NaturalCollection488@reddit

As the eldest sibling you will probably be asked to arrange/informed of your mother’s death first.

But you have no legal obligation to do anything. Do not assume responsibility for anything - speak to CAB for some advise to avoid getting yourself caught up in any of her affairs and entangled.

We were looking into this type of stuff when a family member of mine was about to pass. The council who owned her property were being complete turds and trying to make us financially liable for her house with all the shite in as we didn’t clear it fully. We just did not have the funds. She had no estate either.

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BG3restart@reddit

The best thing would be to encourage your parents to pay for a direct cremation ahead of time. Then all that needs to happen is for someone to notify the provider that they've died and they'll arrange to collect the body and dispose of it. If they die in hospital and the hospital know the arrangements, they'll make the call to the cremation provider.

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Sea-Upstairs-2837@reddit

you can donate her body to science.

once the death certificate etc is all sorted you can refuse a funeral and local council will deal with the body.

literally if i were you just pop into a local funeral home, ask for a 5 minute appointment to talk about options for an ailing parent, and ask them straight up, “mum was abusive and neglectful, i have no intention to give her a funeral, what’s my options?”

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Original_Document748@reddit

I mean theres no legal obligation there for you to arrange her funeral etc it would fall to your brother to do it

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

No it wouldn’t. Nobody is ever obliged to pay for a funeral

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caniuserealname@reddit

No-one living at least.

Funeral costs are given the highest priority with regards to the distribution of the deceased estate, before repayment of debts even, so if there's any money in the estate it goes to the funeral first.

Only if there's no money in the estate and no living family or friends willing to pay will the council shoulder the costs for a public health funeral.

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Creative-Resist-8560@reddit

Honestly your post sounds less about funerals specifically and more about the emotional burden of being expected to carry responsibility for someone who hurt you. Practical arrangements after death are one thing. Feeling obligated to perform grief, duty, or devotion you do not genuinely feel is another. People with loving parents often struggle to understand that difference.

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Early-Sir-518@reddit

My step brother brother and I are roughly estranged from my dad /his mum. His grandparent passed away a couple of months ago and there was no funeral as the family is so broken. They just paid for disposal.

Alternatively your parents may have q funeral care life insurance policy or otherwise.

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Pegasus2022@reddit

When my dad died my brother and myself wanted a pauper funeral for him, but his brother stepped in and paid for one.

We didn’t want to waste our money on him

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smoulderstoat@reddit

If nobody is willing or able to arrange a funeral the local authority is obliged to do so under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984. They can recover the cost from the deceased's estate, though the effort they put into that will depend on how much they think the person is worth.

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Suspicious-B33@reddit

You are not obligated, and if no-one pays there is a Public Health Funeral. You will likely have to fill in a Next of Kin Consent and Agreement form or equivalent expressing your wishes and stating you don't want involvement. If there are assets, they have various ways they as allowed to claim the funds back out of the estate, but you personally are not obliged to pay.

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