Do Westerners look down on you?
Posted by Content-Type-4295@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 236 comments
I sometimes notice a level of condescendence when interacting with people from West European countries (I'm Croatian). Like they seem genuinely surprised that I speak fluent English plus other languages, have a university degree and go to opera, for example. I feel like the idea of "poor and savage Balkans" is highly exaggerated in their heads. The Balkans are behind West Europe in a lot of things, but it almost feels like some people think we live in mud houses or something. A friend of mine was once asked if we have electricity here, not ironically. It really surprises me how ignorant some people can be while having access to travel and internet.
Did you have similar experiences where you are from?
iadaci@reddit
In our case it’s all Europeans not just the westerners. 💀
diegoestoyembarazada@reddit
PuzDefektas@reddit
nah, im from Serbia and people love Romanians
Mike_for_all@reddit
A sad reality
Electrical-Tie-9178@reddit
You have the most beautifuk women on the planet man, seriously.
iadaci@reddit
Far from it but each to his own taste I guess…
HorrorsPersistSoDoI@reddit
Sadly yes, and the sad thing is it's because of misinformation.
Germans, Austrians and the other "elites" think Bulgarians are some lowly thief nation, when that image was created solely by a certain ethnicity that lives among us.
And the funniest part is that the people from "those" elite countries are so brain-dead, that they really can't tell the difference between us Bulgarians, and the people from that certain ethnicity.
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
Ah, yes, blame it on the Roma. Cause those who understand the difference, surely have such a high opinion of Bulgaria and the Balkans in general....
Real_Branch53@reddit
I had a interaction with an american women in a plane in south america, when i told her i’m from Romania si looked surprised and tols me i don t look like a gypsy. I lost my words.. i had to spenf the rest of the time explaining to her that Romania is a country that has a big rroma community but we are not all rroma and that we have like normal houses and jobs 😅
Tableforoneperson@reddit
For American that is a pretty Advanced knowledge I have to admit
vbd71@reddit
Americans know how Roma look? I'm flattered.
Salt_Fennel8876@reddit
Well, people get confused by that name. You think it comes from the Roman Empire, while they associate it with the Roma. But you are neither one nor the other. Maybe you should have remained Wallachia.
43282348@reddit
Romanians are literally Romanized Paleo-Balkan people mixed with Slavs and Romanians are also not the only ethnic group like this in the Balkans (Aromanians, Istro-Romanians, Megleno-Romanians, etc). Also Wallachia is and always was an exonym (name given by other people), which "coincidentally" also has a lot to do with the Roman identity of Romanians.
People not being able to do a simple Google search before talking is exactly why it looks like there's so many uneducated people walking around.
Blue88_wxz@reddit
I think we were here before any Slavs or Gypsies. We still have Dacian words in our vocabulary that we use every day.
43282348@reddit
Yes, that's what "Romanized Paleo-Balkan people" means.
HelloThereItsMeAndMe@reddit
That perception exists everywhere. My polish mother also still thinks Romanians are Gypsies
iadaci@reddit
True, also Poles are the most hostile online. Just today I read a comment from Pole at one of Jinny’s Romania IRL videos she uploaded today. He was saying that during funerals we eat above graveyards and stab the corpse of the deceased or some shit, that’s what they learn in Poland… lmao
Rauliki0@reddit
I havent heard anything hostile about Romania in Poland for long time. And 'Choke me' should have won!
Great-Big-3101@reddit
That was most likely a Soviet bot whose aim is to sow discord between Eastern European nations who support Ukraine
StudySpecial@reddit
thank you for your service keeping the vampires contained!
Cultural_Chip_3274@reddit
I am surprised that she could even make the connection
GimmeFuel6@reddit
She was American, so.
iadaci@reddit
As a Romanian, Europeans are even worse than Americans when it comes to confusing Gypsies or Romanies (as the NGOs like to call them) with Romanians. Most Europeans gave no idea there are other ethnicities in Romania besides Gypsies.
cattbug@reddit
When I was a kid I thought only vampires lived in Romania, guess at least it saved me from believing this bullshit lol
ColorRaccoon@reddit
When I was a kid I thought this too, I really wanted to go to Transylvania and stay in a castle lol
Savings_Cause5234@reddit
I was in my late 20s when I discovered that gypsies and Romanians are not the same thing... granted I am not very smart, but at least and I am from Balkan, I should've known
iadaci@reddit
Nothing surprising there, you are in the tiny minority, most Europeans have no idea.
Entire_Pie_9463@reddit
You should told her, well you dont look fat either...
Real_Branch53@reddit
The lady was actually sweet and had no intent to make me feel in any way and she really wanted to learn about Romania after starting to explain
Commercial_Leek6987@reddit
hereforthebooooze@reddit
I’m surprised an American would even know enough about both Gypsies and Romania to associate them together. Neither topic is well known to the average American.
i-in-@reddit
amazing and deserved
angrybigogre@reddit
Went to a camping in Amsterdam almost 20 years ago. Went to check-in, smiled, made a few jokes, everybody laughs. They ask for the passport, I gave it to them and they say:"Sorry, no romanians allowed!". It was a first hand lesson to truly understand discrimination. Thank you very much, you dutch douche!
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
Can they legally do that??
angrybigogre@reddit
Well, I was tired and wanted a place to rest, not to have a debate about human rights. At the hotel we were welcomed.
SEND_ME_FAKE_NEWS@reddit
In Europe, definitely. In Canada, sometimes. In the US I'm just a generic white guy.
Brain32@reddit
Yup I feel more comfortable in the US than in western Europe...
Adogg03@reddit
We love yall :)
alkorisno@reddit
Real european values, racism :D
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
Americans would also be racist if they only learned about the full map of Europe in school.
New-Mastodon1307@reddit
Also it is often specifically Germanic and Anglo supremacy, they still love to claim heritage from ancient Rome and Greece though.
dallyan@reddit
Same.
Electrical-Tie-9178@reddit
This 💯
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
Yes in many ways that were alreadly mentioned here. I will add that it is bizare when they will try to date you, like seriously date you and pretend they respect you until one of their prejudices slips through the cracks involuntarily. Just ew. I don't date western men anymore.
RandomUser5453@reddit
What west European country?
They literally interact with people who don’t have hot water in their houses (a lot of Filipinos) and from people with the countries are still having public campaigns for funding even though their countries are not in a war zone or went through any disasters. (in the uk are a few funding campaigns for different African countries)
Also at one of the churches with the locals it was an Ethiopian guy that was brought there to talk about what they’ve done there,how they help the community this while we’re showing photos and videos of the schools and programs they built. This guy has been one of the children that was helped by them from when he was a child.
Bobinho4@reddit
had that experience with austrians, dutch and germans and no where else in the world
PuzDefektas@reddit
had that experience also with Scandinavians but they are more subtle about it. They pretend they like you but you can feel they look down on you... Later on one of them confirmed that they think that they are above everyone
New-Mastodon1307@reddit
Real they also look down on us Finns and of course Southern Europeans while still appropriating greco-roman culture.
Educational_Aerie129@reddit
Yup, this.
New-Mastodon1307@reddit
At least I wish they were openly racist no they hide behind pc culture like the cowards they are
phantoms1n@reddit
Dutch people are the biggest assholes on the planet. I've lived in Canada since 9 years old originally from Mostar, BiH everyone assumes I'm just a generic Canadian guy, but in Netherlands I just felt people are insufferable and have some kind of superiority complex lol
-Against-All-Gods-@reddit
The little respect I had for them I lost during the Great Height Meltdown of 2017 when apparently every single Dutch person on the internet simultaneously had a hissy fit when it turned out people from the Dinarides are taller than them, "the tallest nation on the Earth". No, that doesn't count, it's Balkans, they lied, the measurements weren't scientifically sound, selection bias.
Imagine being 190 cm tall on average and still having complexes.
Bobinho4@reddit
this is hilarious
phantoms1n@reddit
Bunch of pussies.
ChrisRedfield696969@reddit
Not Kind of they actually do
fesagolub@reddit
Ma ko ih jebe.
HorrorsPersistSoDoI@reddit
they actually do
Odd_Anybody3472@reddit
I have a friend who was working in Slovenia, and after work he and his buddies are having a stroll through town. He farted 🤣 and the old lady who happened to be on the window said "again those damn Bosnians" and closed the window in disgust I would say (we are from Croatia btw). So I would guess not only by that, heard more instances of some things happening, that our western neighbours Slovenians look a bit down on us, considering themselves not part of Balkans but middle Europeans....when in fact they have a lot of balkan mentality and behaviour. Just my guess.
Proper-Essay-3341@reddit
It's a mix of denial and inferiority complex with Slovenians. The sooner they realize they are mix of both the better. Could say the same about some Croats.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
How exactly are Slovenians mix of Balkan and Central Europe? Culturally? Genetically?
Judging from your English you are probably a Balkan immigrant living in Germany or Austria? Why don’t you live in Balkan if you like it so much?
Why is for some Balkan people such an issue if Slovenians have their own identity? Are you so insecure and full of inferiority complexes?
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
Babes, stop lurking here. Also, you do not have your own identity. You just did a full copy-paste from Austria. You are possibly the only country out of all the Slavic countries that has completely lost (and does not even know how to recognize) traditional Slavic way of singing.
Odd_Anybody3472@reddit
Well true about some of us in Croatia....
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
Let me illuminate you further. They even have a derogatory name - čefur- for all the exyu people. They do not care, we are all scum to them.
inferno66666@reddit
A lot of immigrants from the former Yugoslavia live here who have been living in Slovenia for 30 or 40 years, yet they still haven't learned the language or assimilated. This gets on a lot of people's nerves, and they derogatorily call them 'Bosanci' (Bosnians), regardless of which country they actually come from. I am not trying to make excuses for her, but I'm just explaining her motives. If she had known you were tourists, it probably wouldn't have triggered that reaction.
Puzzleheaded_War3991@reddit
I see couple wrong things here, first of all 40 years ago this people were not immigrants they lived in their country Yugoslavia regardless of where they were born within. Second of all " if she knew you were tourists " ....bro....she is a hater no matter the situation here ...
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Even 40 years ago they were immigrants. They spoke a different language and had different ethic background. Yugoslavia was an artificial unity.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
What exactly is balkan mentality and behavior?
Nazgul_1994@reddit
After moving to Germany, I have realized that germans know geography just as much as the americans. I mean i understand not knowing all the countries in Africa or those small island countries in Pacific, but not knowing countries in Europe, your own continent, was really eye opening for me. It doesnt bother me that they dont know, but it does bother me when they dont listen and mix up my country with some other one starting with the same latter that is totally in different continent. Like why even bother asking me to explain, when you cant even concentrate for 30 seconds to hear me out. So lately I don't even bother explaining. When they assume some random country where i come from, i just say yes i am.
Monterenbas@reddit
Maybe you guys should regroup and create a federation or something, would be easier if we only had one country to learn.
Nazgul_1994@reddit
I guess that's the solution. Hopefully nothing bad happens......
Th3Dark0ccult@reddit
Yes. But not just them. Poles for example also look down on us, but with them it's kinda 50/50. Some will think you're sub-human, others will think you're a fellow slav.
Firm_Bowler228@reddit
At least Westerners defend each other when sb from Eastern Europe/Balkan/North Africa etc, makes fun of one of them, meanwhile Balkaners try so hard to impress them giving them all the power and admitting they are better than us.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
no,
not in my experience.
but then, I have never set foot in countries where I've been told the xenophobia against southern EU people is worst. (Nordics, Netherlands).
in England, meanwhile, most of my friends, & relations, were English, & in fact I even "made" more Cypriot friends than Greek ones. (it may come across like I dislike Cyprus but I don't, overall).
the only meaningful interactions w/ Balkan people (not counting Turks, obviously) I've had abroad was, in first years, a Slovenian guy who LOVED Greece. (back then I genuinely COULD NOT tell Slovenia/Slovakia apart, in fact I had no idea what the Balkans were apart from "the countries to our North" & before Reddit I had no idea there were Greeks who considered Greece Balkan, lol).
there's a couple of instances, that actually pissed me off, but overall... no.
(& I personally don't care if people call me "lazy" cause... I am? lol, & I always be "snide" back).
Big_Delay_3458@reddit
Wow you just did the exact thing. Turkey is Balkan, Mediterranean, Caucasian, Anatolian, West Asian, European. It’s a transcontinental country. You don’t get to dictate what it is or isn’t.
Appropriate-Dance244@reddit
Why not counting turks, obviously? Cus your interactions with them was bad or something else?
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
no,
cause Turkey is obviously not Balkan, (& literally no one outside this sub considers Turkey Balkan, it's crazy that people can't even concede a basic thing, like this).
in fact, my (& my fam's) interactions w/ Turks, on a personal level, have been broadly good.
but, they've all been "surface level" interactions.
I know full well if I discuss things that matter, it's probably going to "get ugly"
so, obviously, on that basis, I could NEVER "associate" w/ them. (unless they're one of the rare ones that reject Turkic nationalism, & support my positions on things).
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
And Slovenia is obviously Balkan even tho it doesn’t have Balkan culture, genetics, geographical location or history?
Appropriate-Dance244@reddit
I don’t understand what you mean?
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
I thought it was weird how this person said that Turkey is OBVIOUSLY not Balkan (I would say it’s debatable). But Slovenia somehow is? Even tho it lacks Balkan culture, genetics, history and is geographically located in Central Europe.
Appropriate-Dance244@reddit
Oh okay thank you for answering! I agree with you as a turk on the topic where turkey is not balkan but, personally it has some similarities as someone who is from izmir (smyrna). I can relate more to this sub than i relate with the turkish people from the east. Since it’s a big country and there are a lot of differences between eastern and the western side of the country.
I was just curious, because the tension between greeks and turkish ppl i saw is mostly online (not including the governments tho) and rarely real life scenarios. I didnt had any bad interactions with greek ppl when i was living in Uk (they were my friends) or with my friends who travelled to Greece for a vacation. I asked you that question bc I was curious what kind of issues you might have encountered.
It doesn’t have to “get ugly” when both sides are respectful when voicing their opinions. Again, thank you for answering me have a good day!
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
There are even some Slovenians who consider Slovenia Balkan even tho it isn’t. Funny right
WorldlinessRadiant77@reddit
Are you by chance from the islands or Peloponnes?
Northern Greece can be hardcore Balkan.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
"Dodecanese" yes.
ProfessionalCress113@reddit
I'm an Australian, and for what its worth, Ive never known an Aussie to look down on Balkaners. (To be honest, most of us wouldn't have an opinion about you at all.)
Big_Delay_3458@reddit
Yeah I think UK and other commonwealth countries are a lot better than mainland European ones at this. Even comparing the way UK and France treat their ex colonies. UK is terrible but France is a lot worse. Or like British museum vs louvre. Terrible vs inner chambers of hell.
fesagolub@reddit
I couldn’t give a damn what they think. I don’t allow them to define “Europeanness”, class, culture, or any relevant standard in my life. People who relatively recently ran slave ships, executed intercontinental genocidal regimes, and economic subversion don’t get to define humanity in my book.
Content-Type-4295@reddit (OP)
Well said!
fesagolub@reddit
We, individually, aren’t behind any of them. Give them the rough hand life dealt us and they’d melt like slanina in the sun. Our hearts and grit and made of steel - they’re softer than pudding. It’s no comparison.
senond@reddit
So...complaining about people feeling superior and then a second later you do the same exact thing lol.
Humans in a nutshell I guess
aargent88@reddit
When my grand grand mother sheltered Italians in WW2 said "I have never met such soft people before".
senond@reddit
People who relatively recently ran slave ships...
None of these people are alive wtf are you talking about.
ObeseWanker1812@reddit
Well said brate
dallyan@reddit
Preach.
JeanDusapin@reddit
A turk saying preach to this 💀 girl you fall in the same category
dallyan@reddit
I know. That’s why I don’t go around acting better than anyone else due to my own country’s atrocious past.
JeanDusapin@reddit
You don't. Your countrymen certainly do though. Turk nationalists are pretty infamous on the internet lol
RedditStrider@reddit
Its almost as if turks are not a hive-mind and its idiotic to bring but "b-but what about nationalists!" to a person that clearly isnt one.
Crazy, I know.
dallyan@reddit
Yeah, I know. I don’t comment on threads like this based on what they think. I can only represent my own thoughts. 🤷🏻♀️
bongiovist@reddit
acshually, we have tried nicely buy they never learn, so whenever they ask if we have camels i tell them i am the famous camel rider in istanbul(camels are not natural to anatolia)
Big_Delay_3458@reddit
Camels are not only found in Arabian desert, there’s also central Asian camels so it’s part of Turkic culture. Yoruks still use camels. I was also very surprised when I learned about this. Turkey in general is hard to understand because as a single country we probably have as many diverse climates as the entire -made up- European continent. My own country continues to surprise me.
oerwtas@reddit
I think Sarıkeçili Yörüks still have camels.
Ornery-Garlic-8218@reddit
We still have camel festivals, for now at least
BlueOrangeJuice_@reddit
B-b-b-but turks muslim desert camel people?😢
Alingex997@reddit
Oh yes. (Serbian)
They are like... whaaaaat you speak English so well? You don't even have an accent??? You speak German and French too? Did you go to some western schooooooooool? Are you guys Russians? You all came from Siberia right? You live in yurts?
A few of them asked me some ten years ago if there is still war here and how are we managing. Like wtf people?
And on top of that, when they come to Belgrade, Novi Sad or Niš, they go: Whaaaat it's a city???? It has history???
Fuck you all, honestly.
Incvbvs666@reddit
The amount of people who come to Serbia shocked that it's a normal country with normal people and normal cities and not some war-torn hellhole is almost comical.
Humble-Bear@reddit
It is definitely not a normal country with normal people and normal cities.
It isn't an outwardly apocalyptic hellhole and active warzone, technically, but that's as good as it gets.
Everything in Serbia is more backwards and worse than in the west.
Incvbvs666@reddit
Really, tell me some of these things that are 'worse than the west.' Most people in Serbia have absolutely no idea what it's like in the west nowadays.
Humble-Bear@reddit
Corruption is at extreme levels. The president is involved in criminal enterprises all across serbia, there was recently a murder involving his directly appointed police chief at a restaurant that involved rival mafia groups.
Serbia resembles more Panama or some narco-state in Latin America than its Western European peers, or even regionally compared to other Balkan countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Slovenia, Croatia.
Institutions don't work across the board. The judiciary is a joke and extremely corrupt by SNS members.
1 out of 10 people in serbia do not have teeth. https://n1info.rs/magazin/zdravlje/doktori-protiv-korpucije-700000-gradjana-srbije-nema-nijedan-zub/
People with paid for diplomas are running rampant across the country.
Need I go on? I can.
Incvbvs666@reddit
Corruption is not at extreme levels, not anything more worse than neighboring country. If you think it is, just try doing a bunch of 'under the radar' things that were extremely possible just a generation ago.
Mafia very much exists in well-developed countries as well. Where do you think the word 'mafia' comes from? You know how much hold, for example, the Yakuza have over Japanese society?
You say 'institutions do not work'... well then, do you have an ID card, driver's licence, do you get property taxes, are there teachers in schools and doctors in state hospitals? Or for that matter how safe do you feel walking the streets of Belgrade? I can assure you many foreigners will answer: 'Safer than many parts of the west!' Institutions of Serbia very much work. Do they work AS WELL as in the west? It's debatable, though I'd find plenty of examples where they even outperform their western counterparts. But this whole 'institutions do not work' crap really gets tiring.
And the 1 in 10 people don't have teeth? One of those 'scare stats' that means nothing. Rates across the world fluctuate and include many factors. Yes, a lower percentage of old people in rich countries have no teeth... 10-20% instead of 40%... and live perfectly normal lives. Sometimes it's better for old people to take out all the teeth and use dentures than for a handful of mishapen teeth useless for chewing to remain. This is typical N1 crap, pulling out stats without any context to allegedly show that Serbia is a terrible or primitive place to live.
And don't get me started on 'Russian propaganda' which is absolutely 'terrible' unlike western propaganda which is perfectly OK. Yes, the west is so 'free' and 'objective' when it comes to Serbia. You don't care about a truly healthy media space where you can source multiple news outlets and compare... you just want your biases and political opinions to be confirmed.
Humble-Bear@reddit
Absolutely false.
You are in delusion if you think the situation in Serbia is the same like around.
You are living in delusion and likely an SNS supporter, a caci. I have nothing to discuss with ignorant people like you, just to chastise you for holding serbia back and propagating its downfall.
FuzzyAmbassador663@reddit
Also almost no one respects even those tiny amounts of laws they have, starting from animal welfare trough traffic, worker rights and so on.. I was born in Serbia (although not Serbian) and after living 15 years in Denmark and the Netherlands I think I can come up with countless things what's worse there. Well literally anything you want to compare is 10 fold worse. BUT, I have to say that some places there can give you possibilities that you won't have anywhere in the west, except if you are a millionaire.
Accomplished-Web-743@reddit
I'm from Greece, working in Germany. I still remember a German girl some years ago, that after a long conversation, told me "please don't take this the wrong way, but when you told me you're from Greece I did not expect that you'd be so smart and educated".
I think she genuinely meant it as a compliment.
Big_Delay_3458@reddit
I live in the US and Americans don’t really care. I think they are actually the least racist out of all the western nations-or maybe just like in general in the world. I know if I lived in Europe I’d be constantly arguing with people cause I will not tolerate any micro aggression.
vbd71@reddit
In Europe I speak like "Ooga booga" to confirm the stereotypes, and my skin color also helps. And I always inform them that I'm from Balkans.
NoSync22@reddit
“Westerners” doesn’t mean much - somebody from Graz or Gorizia will have had a lot more direct interactions with Balkaners than somebody from Belgium or Denmark.
I can speak with first hand knowledge regarding Italy: there were indeed quite some prejudices which formed in the 90s and persisted until 15/20y ago, although not about all countries in the area, but I’d say they pretty much went extinct as contacts went on to become more and more intense.
As many in this thread pointed out, I can confirm I had a few recent exchanges with Dutch who still hold weird views, though.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
And don’t forget Slovenia. Big Balkan diaspora there!
EnvironmentalPack759@reddit
I heard somewhere like 95%+ people there are Balkan, crazy how quickly nations culture can die
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Yea that’s definitely not true but yes, it will most likely happen because many Slovenians don’t care at all about Slovenian culture and immigrants don’t care either. I mean why would they, according to many of them their culture is superior and many Yugonostalgic-Slovenian-culture-hating Slovenians would agree. It’s a shame.
Vivid-Cry5245@reddit
In Europe, definitely. And I won’t even get you started on France 💀
When I started dating my (Croatian) boyfriend, I had to educate my parents, who had a very NEGATIVE view of people from the Balkans. To them, that part of Europe was like a zoo, with people who were all gangsters and... all that sort of crap. They were very condescending towards him!
Almost 2 years later, a complete 180-degree turn: from “Why do you want to go to the Balkans, it’s DANGEROUS” to “Woah, the people are really nice, we SUPPORT you moving to Croatia with him!” lol
Stiffler13@reddit
Croatia and Slovenia are most civilized Balkan countries...
EnvironmentalPack759@reddit
Croatia and Slovenia are on the same level of "civilized" as any other ex-yu country. More gays and money doesn't equalize more civilized.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Not sure why you mentioned Slovenia? This is about BalkanZ
Observe_Report_@reddit
The irony is I’ve often felt condescension from Croatians towards me, and I’m Albanian-American.
gnarled_quercus@reddit
I do.
(Slovenian)
Proper-Essay-3341@reddit
Lmao, mf thinks he is a Westerner.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Slovenia is not western but it isn’t balkan either.
Critical-Copy1455@reddit
It wasn't so bad. I was once educated about ironing boards but that was almost 20 yrs ago. I was told by an American that why l do not look Asian? (Croatia, Korea that was probably confusing). But then, when l was angry, l threatened them with me being from Balkans and they believed it...
sakurakuran93@reddit
Like I said i worked in the police and this is what I saw working there. I am not talking about people who are not in law enforcement.
I just explained how racism works in the police. The general public doesn’t think Greece is an Eastern European country and they do not categorize us in the same way.
And yes, I have moved to the Baltics. The UK has gone a bit downhill
AirWolf231@reddit
For Croatia not much at all, we get the "Europen" treatment with 90+ % of Westerners. And the ones that give me shit are usually not smart enough so they are easy to deal with.
But I have seen other Balkan people get treated like shit.
sakurakuran93@reddit
I worked in law enforcement in the UK. The term “Eastern European” is not used in a positive way. They perceive us not only as third world countries in Europe but also as very savage people - like we are notorious of drunk fighting each other in the streets instead of calling the police for everything. And many other things.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
who in the UK considers Greece "Eastern European" lol.
obviously I didn't work in ur field, so can't speak on that, but I was in England during the "worst" of Brexit campaign/aftermath, & the term Eastern European was always "targeted" Romanians, Polish, Bulgarians
in fact, I had English people (including of ethnic background) casually shit on Eastern Europe in discussions w/ me...
sakurakuran93@reddit
A lot of people I worked with do. We are an Eastern European country and in the Balkans after all, just not ex USSR. Oh, and Polish were always referred to as Polish. They were a category of their own, same as Lithuanians.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
that's debatable, (unless u haven't set foot in an island... lol) but I'm talking perspective here, & this definitely isn't the perspective of Greece in the UK.
likewise, "Polish were always referred to as Polish. They were a category of their own, same as Lithuanians"
u must have been settled in a different UK to me cause, again, the (unjustified) xenophobia Eastern Europeans faced, particularly "targeted" Polish, Romanians, Lithuanians. (it was all over the media, papers, politicians, public discrimination, etc).
I see u left the UK for another country tho, guess it didn't work out for u.
angrybigogre@reddit
"drunk fighting each other in the streets" - as a characteristic for Eastern Europeans coming from British people is somehow... ironic
Significant-Ad-7182@reddit
That is ironic knowing how drunk Brits are especially when they come here.
kexibis@reddit
Absolutely not from Canada, US looks down to anyone anyway
Accomplished_Word429@reddit
germans with good education tend to be condescending without even knowing or intention to be so. wouldnt surprise me if it's like this in other western countries as well, it comes from a feeling like they come from this high castle of morals and critical thinking. there's certainly a form of overconfidence that comes with very good education. best thing is if they are a liberal minded person as well, since they are so strongly voiced against racism and yet they are being racist without even realising. they do tend to acknowledge their mistake if you point it out to them and you can see in their faces that they feel uncomfortable, so it's fine with me, really. It's always a chance to expand or correct small things in their worldview or blindspots in education after all.
Low_Interest_5073@reddit
You will never be like them, you will be a second-class citizen. Europeans will not accept you, Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians, even Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians.
They will always look down on you.
They will attempt ethnic cleansing to destroy you again at the first opportunity.
You are not like them. Turks only see you as equal and fair, like themselves.
Even if you fight amongst yourselves, they try to appease everyone.
For Europe, you will remain a third-world country.
Humble-Bear@reddit
Stereotypes exist for a reason.
Yes, the initial thought process is what you said. I have to prove the stereotypes wrong.
Whole_Check_3038@reddit
As a Greek no not at all. The only thing you may encounter with some poor westerners is the Greek crisis thing that we are lazy or something, but generally nothing
Educational_Aerie129@reddit
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-migrants-migration-discrimination-racism-labor-shortage-economy/a-73092293
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
same.
the "worst" for me was a cab driver, who I got in a (political) argument w/ and, at some point, he goes... "u don't do pork in Greece, right"
I was like ??
& said (w/ a "smirk") "I thought Greece was Muslim"
(suffice to say, I didn't tip, lol).
Whole_Check_3038@reddit
probably he is still in the ottoman empire era :)
StamatisTzantopoulos@reddit
I was selling Christmas trees in Paris and had misunderstood an old lady with an incomprehensible accent (she wanted a small tree delivered way out of Paris which was not possible). So she started going full racist on me as expected, like 'it's not my fault that you didn't understand', 'you bloody foreigners' etc. At some point she asks me 'Where are you from?' I kinda panicked cause I didn't want her to badmouth my country (I am Greek) but eventually retorted 'from Turkey'! Very proud of that moment.
Vivid-Cry5245@reddit
Damn, I’m sorry. People in Paris can be very stupid...
Admirable_Mud_470@reddit
Yes, one of my relatives were told they should stayed behind the iron curtain. What is normal in Hungarian society is seen as “backwards” by some ppl here. They think they are developed and enlightened, but they really just eat bad food, have a weak culture and have enslaved minds.
Ordinary-Active-7048@reddit
No, I'm blonde with blue eyes and pale skin and I've been treated very well.
Admirable_Mud_470@reddit
What’s your background though?
Nodevski@reddit
Dutchman here. I travelled 20 yrs in Eastern Europe. In Holland people generally know nothing about EE except for the negative news articles. When I say I often visit Macedonia they have actually never heard of it. My experience is that youngsters are very well educated and liberal. But the older generation is often stuck in traditional values, religion and nationalism and all that.
Admirable_Mud_470@reddit
Why “stuck”, I’m young and educated, but have traditional/religious not liberal values.
K-Hunter-@reddit
Bigotry and a sense of superiority are just part of the western european culture.
Jaded_Reading3872@reddit
The irony coming from a Turk
herhangibirperson@reddit
The only irony here is Balkaners claiming how you are "looked down upon" when you treat Turkish people ten times worse
You have it absolutely fine. Stop complaining and sit down
xlondelax@reddit
I think this is a part of European culture, not just of West. French look down on British, British look down on French. Europeans look down on Roma, Roma look down on Europeans. Ex-Yugo might not look down on West Europeans on general, but they do look down on some aspect od certain West European country' aspects.
I also believe that applies also for African, Arab and Asian countries.
jinawee@reddit
Do Turks not feel superior than Kurds (Dağ Türkleri)?
TechnicianTimely2879@reddit
Western Turks usually see easterners as “less developed” so you could say that (of course not everyone). Atatürk didn’t westernize Turkey because Turks were superior, he did that because the west was superior in every way.
figflashed@reddit
He did it because he knew if you guys didn’t modernize you would disappear.
jinawee@reddit
Yeah, I meant because he saw the West superior, he tried to adopt many aspects of their culture. He's views on religion were like France's, not like China or African tribes.
SonilaZ@reddit
In US no, they just lump all Balkans with other European countries so they don’t treat us any differently. At least in my experience, US is so big that people might have different experiences based on the region they live in.
ObeseWanker1812@reddit
I mean... In some ways yeah. I was born and live in a western country, but my family are from Croatia and Bosnia. People always ask me where I am from, and also sees me in a different light, due till my appearance (I am literally white, but not white enough?). They also presume I know nothing about their culture, and are also shocked when I at times know more than them. In elementary school they assigned me to guidance meetings/classes, even though my grades were well beyond the average...
Simphorosa@reddit
This is a silent racism that nobody really talks about.
ObeseWanker1812@reddit
exactly - My friends are really great though, and they were always clueless on why people viewed me in a different light..
Simphorosa@reddit
Westerners also tend to make fun of Croatian war of idenpendence, Bosnian war and war in Kosovo. They think it's funny...
StamatisTzantopoulos@reddit
So do you have electricity?
Capricornnetwork05@reddit
Yeah to westerns we’re just lower class europeans…
Boeing367-80@reddit
It is said that you're not truly Viennese unless your grandma was from Bohemia (i.e. Czech).
My guess is that sometime in the future, a similar thing will be said in parts of western Europe except that grandma will be Balkan. There are a shitload of Balkan migrants in western Europe. 100 years from now their descendants will be regarded as solid western European citizens who will shit on some other migrant.
Previous_Aardvark141@reddit
100 years from now? Bro its already happening. Sweden Democrats (right wing nationalist/populists) are very popular with the Balkan diaspora. Especially among those of Serbian descent.
And, in Sweden at least, 2nd or 3rd generations of Balkan migrants are mostly indistinguishable from most Swedes until they mention their heritage.
Savasana1984@reddit
That’s true, been living around the Brit isles for a decade now, there’s a sh*t tone of us scattered all around here and rarely heard anyone condescending.
MinaretofJam@reddit
Yup. It’s always the way with people. Archaeologist here and an old saw about human behaviour, true across time and cultures is “when two groups of humans meet they always engage in a combination of the three Fs: feasting, fighting, and fucking.’ Already loads of mixed Brit-Polish marriages and their kids are Brits. Lots of Balkan’s peoples in Oz and their kids and grandchildren are true blue Aussie. We’re all mongrels and much more closely related in time and space than we realise.
FrothyEspresso@reddit
I’ve never had issues.
The only people here that even know what Yugoslavia was are former troops that served there and when they find out I’m Serbian they sort of freeze for a second and then chill out and tell me how they were in X town in Bosnia or Y town in Croatia, they love the food, etc.
tayshiapauljones@reddit
I’m a westerner who lives in the Balkans & from my observations Westerners look down on the Balkans a lot :(
Lopsided_Summer_5536@reddit
Some, but mostly I think it's just a problem stemming from a lack of education/experience, and personality type, not necessarily any ill intention. Some people are more open to and curious about other nationalities and places, while others prefer to stick to what is familiar to them.
My impression is that some central europeans are more prone to look down upon us, by how offended they are when someone calls them eastern europeans.
pasobordo@reddit
Zizek
ChrisRedfield696969@reddit
Ofc they do
Early-Show2886@reddit
Yes, they do. Even my mother, although German (but of German descent from the Balkans, a Danube Swabian), was always considered not really German by the native Germans. And then there's me, with my exotic looks thanks to my Turkish father, who came from eastern thrace-turkey but traces back to the flooded island of Ada Kaleh in Romania (they were particularly exotic, due to centuries of inbreeding).
euxenios-svartahaf@reddit
As a Turk yes definitely. Westoids are really really makes me and many Turks tired. Their unimaginable orientalism will leave your mouth open, leaking saliva. Also some Eastern Europeans who think they are Western or something do the same, as well as ''sir we are secular my mom has blond hair I study in Kahramanmaras university ahh I'm European'' Turks too. (I have no beef with secularism, I support it)
-TaylorDurden-@reddit
Yeah, the same way Croatians look at, say, Bosnians and Bulgarians.
symbionet@reddit
In what European country does everyone think that the rest of Europe is perfectly cultured in a balanced way?
Loopbloc@reddit
Not really, but I arrived before all people came. Pioneer in the civilized west from the wild east!
Wunid@reddit
All Slavs are a bit of a wild bunch. Although in Western Europe they’re still viewed more favourably than Bengalis, Pakistanis, Indians (perhaps with the exception of the UK, where some people prefer Indians), Arabs, Africans or Turks.
K2YU@reddit
Peesonally just a few times, although this happened to me more often online than in real life, but i feel that being arrogant towards people like us seems to be quite common.
Sure_Dust_5625@reddit
As a Czech, I feel it too. Honestly I think its more about the Iron Curtain divide rather than Balcan only.
PisicaIntergalactica@reddit
Simply talking about appearances, I like to take care of myself, go well dressed anywhere, I am educated and I am a respectful person. No one ever treated me badly on the first approach.
On the other hand when they find out I am Romanian, sometimes I see that they get somehow disappointed because I do not match what they imagine a Romanian to look like and behave. If it’s people from South America or Asia, totally different type of interaction, we immediately connect.
Growing up I lived instances of exclusion and systematic xenophobia, now that I am an adult I specifically became very picky with the people I surround myself with. I will never in my life allow mediocre ignorants to even try this shit with me again.
To answer your question, yes, a lot of people from Western and Northern Europe are xenophobic and have a superiority complex. But also some of my best friends are from here and they are amazing people. I also had very negative experiences in the Balkans and Romania. So I guess…we are not safe from criticism either.
Crypzzz@reddit
HAHAHAHAHA
In all seriousness, not really. No one is looking down on anyone. The ones who are not retarded know that we all share the same baseline in one way or another
JorjaNya@reddit
Yes.
PuzDefektas@reddit
Whike they had human zoos in 1950s we were accepting African students and gave them education. So yeah, i don't give a fuck what those racist genocidal cunts think.
mistahbleedinhart@reddit
Turk here! No, never. I grew up in a tourist spot and even foreigners married to Turks w Turkish kids always have that underlying ravism to the way they interact w u but I'm kinda blond and blue eyed so I definitely do not bear the brunt of it, stay safe out there! <3
tommyno5@reddit
On ocassion it happens, fortunately I don't care much about "western" people opinions
Open-Investigator-52@reddit
In general they will never treat you as their equal. I work with a lot of nationalities and the western European ones usually act like they are better than you and know everything there is to know, Canadians are similar. People from Spain and Italy are pretty chill and Scandinavians are way more rude than people think.
peach_tea_220@reddit
Yes in Sweden, the worst part was that it was also other immigrants doing it. Like wtf
xolov@reddit
A lot of Swedes still believe in old myths and stereotypes even about their neighbouring countries Finland and Norway and have this somewhat condescending view, so I'm not surprised at all that a person from the Balkans will feel this on an even harder level.
Puzzleheaded_Use4735@reddit
As a tourist at least, having traveled for months through Europe, mostly western Europe, never had such interactions, to my surprise, even when I told people I'm romanian, even heard nice things about Romania.
Pie_collector@reddit
Same! The only weird interactions I had were online and mostly on discord servers
Gate2178@reddit
as a Croat, i’ve experienced only that with the Dutch/Flemish people. I work in a multinational company. From my experience, I divide Europe at north and south. Generally, I get along easily with southerners but with northerners is usually harder. Poles and Germans are quite distant and cold but never have felt any discrimination. On the other hand, many Dutch people have that superiority complex on which I am ignorant and the dutch i have met certainly got bad experiences interacting with me. Also so many Dutchies are such liars because of their complexes. I am not better. I am trying to avoid to have prejudice based on the nationality but I cannot help with Dutch and Indians.
Sc0tts_tot@reddit
That's our own fault. Reddit is filled with stupid, poor balkaners/slavs posts, mostly coming from balkaners themselves.
bongiovist@reddit
stop that bullshit now pls. that propaganda like every Austrian Mozart, every German Schopenhauer, every Dutch is Van Gogh illusion has been failed several times. If i would spit every single time i met those dumb as fuck people it would be Mediterranean.
alpidzonka@reddit
Lived in the UK as a child and didn't feel that sentiment. Currently working with Germans as an adult and I do. They're extremely annoying.
sassycattocorn@reddit
Well, I'm from Romania and that's enough said.
Alone_Ad2750@reddit
Most Western Europeans don’t go to the Opera. Not sure if they can deal with this information at all.
WorldlinessRadiant77@reddit
I’ve had them occasionally, but the comments of Czechs and Poles are a lot more outlandish. Like a Polish friend of mine though literally all buildings here are commie blocks.
In reality, while those countries are obviously richer than Bulgaria, the living standards are a lot closer to ours than to Switzerland or Norway.
janesmex@reddit
I have been abroad as a tourist and didn’t experience that. Online I have heard some stereotypes, but also some positive things as well, so I wouldn’t generalise.
SpyrosGatsouli@reddit
Yes. I've lived In several other European countries and I faced this issue a lot even though I speak several languages fluently, have university degrees and go to the opera, as you say. There is such of an ingrained superiority complex in many countries. Balkaners (or "Jugos" as some call people from ex-Yugoslavian countries) exist to be their servants and are very strongly look down upon. If you are better than them in some way they get extremely uncomfortable.
TheFilipLav@reddit
I didnt expect that theyll do that to Greeks as well.
janesmex@reddit
There are some stereotypes , especially during crisis about corruption and laziness etc even though some of the things the other person said are exaggerations, I’ve never heard anyone that said that during summer we are their servants and waiters lol and I don’t like this victim mentality either.
SpyrosGatsouli@reddit
We have a slightly different type of condescension. We are the poor EU relatives. They make fun of our corruption and useless governments and accuse us of being lazy. We are their waiters and servants when they vacation in Greece in the summer. I was abroad during the Greek debt crisis in 2015. That was NOT fun.
icancount192@reddit
I was in Istanbul during the crisis in 2011.
We wanted to get from Taksim to the airport early in the morning and we had only euros left, no liras. The subway accepted only liras and not credit cards back then.
So we said what the hell, let's find a taxi.
So we're right next to the subway and we ask a group of 5 guys speaking Dutch, one of them obviously a Turk, where the taxi plaza is to get to the airport.
The Turk is confused - why do you want to get to the airport by taxi? The subway is right there. He asks us where we are from, we say Greeks and we explain that we don't have liras.
He puts his hand in the pocket and tries to buy us tickets. We refuse and thank him and explain that we don't want to and it's ok. He insists but we refuse again.
One of the Dutch guys then says "You have taken billions, what's 2 euros more"
So for the next five minutes I'm angrily explaining the situation to this mfer, how the "loans" worked where do they go, what does the situation look like in Greece, etc.
The Turk is trying to calm the situation, and the Dutch moron after understanding this is not a stupid De Telegraaf article just says "it was a joke".
That was my first of 3 very bad interactions with Dutch people during the Greek crisis. And I won't forget it, and I will always be suspicious of the Dutch.
Comprehensive_Ad3399@reddit
In my experience Dutch are literally the worst when it comes to being condescending.
SpyrosGatsouli@reddit
Oh come on, they weren't being rude, they were just being honest and direct. /s
icancount192@reddit
Oof yes exactly, "honest and direct" is what they say they are and are very proud for being assholes.
sendvic_sa_senfom@reddit
Usually i look down at them.
fatgirlcuddler@reddit
Maybe, I don't really care, I'm here to ensure drug addiction rates are as high as possible
Eurydica@reddit
Yes. Therefore I stopped being polite and nice and I just match their expectations.
Szannok@reddit
First week at a corporate job, the assistant manager asks me "So, you are a white Romanian?". I ask her what does she mean: "Oh, there is like... black Romanians and white Romanians, right? Your skin looks more white, so I assumed."
A lot of Dutch people are also amazed Romania is not in Africa??
I got rejected from a (big corporate) job once because Romania is apparently not in the EU and they don't want to sponsor my visa :)))
I got lots of stories about Dutchies being ignorant lol there aren't even the best
addqdgg@reddit
I can't speak for anyone else. I personally see the whole eastern block, where I'd include former jugoslavia, as victims of communism and the countries as less developed than the western block. With former jugoslavia there is also the 90's wars, which I still remember, and the refugees from that time. And what came to be known as "juggemaffian" in Sweden, career criminals in a mafia like structure. What I have is prejudice, like... Most of balkans is run down, because that's the last we saw of it on TV (except perhaps sports or some holiday programme). There is rampant corruption (Vucic for example), hustler culture and it's generally run-down. I know these are prejudices and most likely not true or have good explanations. When I've gone to Greece streets have looked run down, but that's partly due to the heat? I also noticed a lot of half-finished construction projects, that could, of course, just be temporary but still felt weird.
The standard of living is probably slightly lower than in west but so what? I believe all the balkan countries has a very good education system and that any prejudice will be gone in a generation or two. You do have weak plumbing though, that is a fact (at least Greece).
Sorry if I upset you! I do want to visit most of the balkan countries.
Traditional_Bus_4830@reddit
My children are 16. Children often have no filter.
It happened on many occasions that a child from their school or friend group would say “ My family, father, grandmother doesn’t like Eastern Europeans”. This is meant to be “You are my best friend but I have been warned by my family that you are not to be trusted, you are different, you are beneath me. I still like you but i am surprised that I like you.”
alecpu@reddit
Yeah, I often visit the Scandinavian countries, because of relatives there and I know decent swedish.
One day I talked to some people, I don't remember even why, but I told them that I'm Bulgarian and they looked at me so weird and confused. Made some comment how I don't look Bulgarian
BeeSweet4835@reddit
The worst country for anti Balkan racism is Australia. Eric Bana refers to it too.
bluexxbird@reddit
The Dutch often thought my husband is from Afghanistan
NoCredit3354@reddit
Croatia is basically a first world country at this point.
phantoms1n@reddit
Huge LOL
Far_Surprise2971@reddit
lol
EuroLegend23@reddit
They are ignorant for sure, but there is no one better on the planet at making themselves look bad than Balkaners
PhenixspeedHR@reddit
My mother Had I friend from Germany that show us hao phone looks Like and I can tell you is was funny as hell
Savings_Cause5234@reddit
Of course they do, thats why you have to look down on them as well... this is the way Europe has operated for thousands of years
Far_Surprise2971@reddit
abosolutely, migrant workers and diaspora in general n western europe are collectivly seen as "yugos" without any consideration or interest in nuances of culture. to them, we are just an amalgamation of some savages from the balkans
BlackWicking@reddit
Never, travelled thru Europe, Asia and Africa. Never in 20 years. Except, the Pari people.
Accomplished_You5321@reddit
My city in America had alot of balkan refugees. Some of them were gypsies. Gypsies caused problems in the early years so all bosnians were and still are gypsies. Number one thing American says to me is "you don't look bosnian" and "you aren't like the rest of them" and "why do you all drive bmws" and "why do you all steel copper." The funny thing is most of these people never met a bosnian or gypsy it's just what they have heard about "us." I've given up at this point explaining different people, cultures, languages, etc... I'm white in their eyes until they see my name or I tell them myself I'm not born in America. Then it's game over. I hate living here sometimes. Trump made everything worse. When they find out I'm Muslim it gets even funnier. I have to explain that I don't drive bmw, I don't steal copper, and I have to explain sharia law now and why I'm not going to force it on anyone.
Bardosaurus@reddit
Yes. Very much.
TheFilipLav@reddit
Probably, they seem to have a very bad opinion on Serbia, can’t blame them when they’ve probably only heard of bad things. When I tell them where I am from they’re like “Ooh…” and the topic switched to something else. Sometimes they say something along the lines of “Your English is very good…(for a Serb)”
CasperGwamm@reddit
The dumb ones for sure.
7amdrei7@reddit
Make sure you don't confuse it with the much more prevalent looking down on the working class in general. /s
nomemory@reddit
Yes.
In my experience working abroad I was experience various forms of "racistish" behavior, even from immigrants coming from worse countries than the ones in our beloved Balkans, like North Africans making comments of how bad are the Balkan countries and we come to steal their jobs.
I am not sure if that's their level of politeness or it's the fact that living in a "multicultural" country/city can alter your personality, given the precarious people roaming your streets.
Luckily, as a Balkaner I don't cry in a corner so I have answered to all the offenses with offense. It was me and a greek (named after the god of war) who had to visit HR because we made demeaning comments about people not washing their hands after shittying their spicy curry chicken and then handshaking people who had higher hygiene standards.
bato_one@reddit
No they don’t and if they do I probably didn’t notice them cuz I’m too busy looking down on them as a superior balkanoid human specimen that I am.
Sad_Attorney_6323@reddit
As a western european, i wasnt aware of this feeling that you can have. And i had the impression that young people in eastern Europe has a better english than in the west.
Desperate_Role_3940@reddit
I look down on them because they look gay
kodial79@reddit
Online they totally do. Irl I don't have much reason to interact with them.