Delta App stage check question
Posted by Chemical_Nail8762@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 59 comments
Looking for some opinion of interpretation. In this question what would (exclude any individual training lessons) entail? A stage check that doesn’t have examining authority? Just curious what would be exempt. Thanks in advance.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
I genuinely can’t remember if I ever failed a stage check or not. It was 15 years ago and it didn’t fucking matter.
hanjaseightfive@reddit
That’s why you have a logbook bud 🤷♂️
If the hiring team is going to thumb through your logbook to see what’s actually in it, then you probably should as well.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
Obviously I could look it up, I would have to.
The hiring team never thumbed through my logbook.
hanjaseightfive@reddit
Which hiring team?
Compass, Flexjet, JSX, and Delta all did physical logbook reviews for our interview groups.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
Neither my major nor regional thumbed my logbook. Maybe a copy of the last page. I’m not sure what flipping through someone’s logbook would do, maybe a conversation starter? To evaluate your arithmetic skills?
MeatServo1@reddit
It matters now, and 141s produce, retain, and review their records.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
Which is unfair to all of us who went through when stage checks were either just a progress check or the warmup for the actual checkride.
141’s should now be working to remove all formal stage checks from their training programs.
MeatServo1@reddit
And unfair to all the people after you who never got the chance to not disclose stage checks. Everyone who didn’t get hired at the last stop in their professional journey before recruiters started asking about stage checks gets screwed.
Murky_Digger@reddit
Same here. I know I failed a stage check in 2004; was probably NDB related.
WFC
aviatorchick77@reddit
They’re asking if you have had any failures including checkrides, proficiency checks, or stage checks in a 141 program.
KBC@reddit
I’m curious to know how in your mind you were able to exclude part 61 failures.
DontAtMoi@reddit
Because part 61 stage checks aren’t real. An independent instructor can call anything a stage check. They can call every single flight you take a stage check if they want. It’s all made up.
KBC@reddit
Are you aware some of the biggest pilot mills are part 61? ATP, and Blue Line to name a few. Their stage checks are most certainly not just made up.
DontAtMoi@reddit
Just because they make you do them doesn’t mean it’s not made up by them. They are absolutely not required.
aviatorchick77@reddit
Obviously if you’re following a 141 training program which includes stage checks yet training under part 61, include any stage check fail.
capn_starsky@reddit
I went to a part 61 affiliated with a university, they did pre solo “stage checks.” They even wanted that listed at least as of 7 years ago.
DontAtMoi@reddit
Stage checks are completely made up in Part 61. You can horribly fail them and then still take your checkride or whatever else the check was “precluding” you from doing it.
I would personally not report these.
capn_starsky@reddit
I agree it is bullshit and left this one out. They looked at my logbooks, found that entry from 10 years previous and asked about it. Then followed up with “did you forget about this or purposely omit it from your application?”
MyPilotInterview@reddit
This is incorrect. They want to know about any phase or stage check, part 61 or 91. Also note, other FAA exams may show up on your PRD, so if you failed your A&P, we list that too.
I would not omit them.
Spirit_of_No_Face@reddit
Any formal documentation they can possible trace back to?
PrayForWaves117@reddit
Yea you bring your 141 records to the interview in case the question comes up.
Flaky_Summer_9800@reddit
I’m under the impression that 141 schools discard of your records after a year or two? How are you supposed to get them if the school doesn’t have them anymore. I assume your logbook would suffice as it’s got everything logged in it.
PrayForWaves117@reddit
You retrieve them yourself before or right after you graduate.
f1racer328@reddit
Pilot records database.
Calling the part 141 flight school.
Logbooks.
Calling old instructors/peers/whoeverelsetheymightknow.
I’m sure there’s more.
LikenSlayer@reddit
People with no checkride Failures have harder Interview technical questions. Because they wanna find out why. You actually that good or did you slip through the cracks.
I'm on the hiring board at my Legacy. We dig deeper to make sure what we are hiring, is what we're hiring.
Flat-Row7968@reddit
Am I crazy now for debating if I should lie about having a stage check failure or two so that this doesn’t happen 🤣
yeshmate@reddit
Don’t worry it’s not true. Source - do Interviews for a legacy.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
This guy has been known to embellish and outright make shit up in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if he's not even an interviewer.
LikenSlayer@reddit
Please elaborate on what you think I've made up. What reason would I have to make stuff up for individuals I'll never meet? I'm simply saying expect to get more technical questions, thats it.
Besides the one guy who thought I lied about my flairs, then I happen to meet him at his preferred location to prove him wrong.
yeshmate@reddit
What are you talking about?
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Not you, sorry. The downvoted root comment.
JohnKayne@reddit
Well maybe you didn’t fail anything formally but just be humble and talk about mistakes you’ve made honestly.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Well that's both ridiculous and likely false.
I have zero failures. I got asked exactly one question about it on my legacy interview.
rotardy@reddit
That’s dumb. So you seriously think a guy like me that’s been working as a professional pilot for 27 years might have somehow slipped through the cracks… for 27 years.
That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. Based on your flair I suspect we work for the same legacy. Please don’t fuck over any good people coming to the interview.
LikenSlayer@reddit
27 years ago was when you were being interviewed for the legacy your at now. Is different than being interviewed after having 27 years.
rotardy@reddit
I was interviewed at my legacy job four years ago with 23 years of experience. Four prior airlines. Two 135 carriers and a handful of other adventures.
Tasty_Impression_959@reddit
Any question that leaves the reader hoping to understand its granularity needs rewriting.
milnerq@reddit
That’s why some 141 schools won’t mark the stage check as a failure. It gets marked incomplete. It only gets moved to failed if they incomplete it after 3 attempts.
WDE117@reddit
Failures happen. That’s a normal part of this field and one that can be massaged into a net positive for your overall body of work. You know what can’t be massaged into a positive? Being deliberately misleading and hiding the truth.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
True but how can you massage anything if they decide to filter out the apps of everyone who admits a failure
WDE117@reddit
Filtering out failures by default would incentivize not telling the truth, then they’re finding out about a struggler during training. I’m not saying it’s not a risk to tell the truth about failures, but it’s a bigger risk IMO to incur an integrity issue.
They’re not offering a CJO to a logbook or a training jacket, they’re offering it to a person. Do you want the fly with the guy who can articulate the important lessons from a failure or a guy who lies about an immaculate record?
FWIW, I’m applying that standard to my own Delta app.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
You’re exactly right, it would incentivize lieing so that’s who they will get. The ones who legit never had a failure, and the ones who lied about it. While screening out those who answered honestly.
And I wouldn’t expect any correlation between someone with a stage check failure during their first few hundred hours to someone who might struggle at the airlines. Sometimes a little struggling in training produces the best pilots because they end up with a fuller education and learn to self correct.
A prolonged pattern of failures is a problem and that’s what they should be concerned with.
Busy-Agent-8380@reddit
I listed stage check failures and all but I had interviewers say nobody cares about that crap. So definitely put them all
MadeForThisOnePostt@reddit
For professional curiosity, if they said “ Nobody cares about that crap “ then what do they care about ? Actual failures or what ?
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Actual FAA fails and 135 / 121 fails. Investigations and actions by the FAA against the pilot. 709s. Criminal history. Patterns of reckless behavior. Those are things they care about.
carsgobeepbeep@reddit
Whether you'll admit it, or are willing to lie about it.
soittfire88@reddit
So if youve literally never failed anything in this career they assume youre a liar?
carsgobeepbeep@reddit
No no, what I'm saying is if you DID fail your pre-solo stage check during PPL or something similarly innocuous, it's 99.9% likely to generate a "no worries thanks for telling us" response...
However, lying and pretending you didn't, A) they will absolutely find out and B) they will literally pull you out of the simulator mid-session and send you packing when they do.
Longjumping-Escape15@reddit
If it says unsatisfactory in your logbook then you need to mention it. The question is pretty clear.
slacker130@reddit
Is there a paper trail?
From what I’ve seen, owning a failure and using it as a growth moment is a better alternative than hiding something and hoping it doesn’t pop up.
But also, I don’t know what the heck I’m talking about either.
jet-setting@reddit
It will be in the logbook if the stage check unsats were recorded correctly.
Ok_Excitement725@reddit
Always assume there is a paper trail of everything.
Hiding something they want to know about and being caught out on it would almost always equal immediate cancelation of an interview, rescindment of a CJO or likely a pull from class, if you got that far. Doesn't happen a lot but people have been marched out of indoc at DL/UA/AA and probably the regionals too in the not too distant past for things that showed up later on which were hidden or lied about. Sometimes background checks don't get completed til you are sitting in the classroom.
mobius270@reddit
I listed all 7 of my 141 failures there, even broke out the two orals I failed separately. That sounds like a lot to some people, but that is out of 28 total events. I was a 20/21 year old kid whose dad had just died when I received most of those failures. I wasn't the same person or pilot 5 years later. Never failed anything in the 121 world and even made it through a tough ACMI widebody course.
Delta still never called. Their loss.
Pilot0160@reddit
It’s exactly what it says. Any checkride or phase/stage check or proficiency or line check. Any checking event
capn_starsky@reddit
I agree with this and want to emphasize that they emphasized the word “ANY.”
PILOT9000@reddit
I don’t understand your question. The application is black and white in what it’s looking for.
ExecutivePhoenix@reddit
If you busted a stage 2 instrument check during a 141 program, then your answer is yes. Delta really values honesty. It will not hurt you. But they will show you the door if they find out you were dishonest, and trust me, they WILL know.
ChiefDaddyJ@reddit
I listed my stage check busts on there that were part 141 with no examining authority. Figured better safe than sorry, the recruiters on facebook posted a while ago that they were having issues with people hiding stuff on this question and losing their CJO
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Looking for some opinion of interpretation. In this question what would (exclude any individual training lessons) entail? A stage check that doesn’t have examining authority? Just curious what would be exempt. Thanks in advance.
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