[-]

phiiota@reddit

Unless Trump goes over the Trump limit don’t think you should move because of politics since any country can change to far right or left (Germany AFD now even has more power then any other political party) with next election.

[-]

InterBeard@reddit

I do not think you understand how far away that is and how much damage has already been done. I will not be surprised at all if elections start being canceled. I really wish this community would so a little more empathy for the plight of Americans considering fleeing their own country.

[-]

SophieElectress@reddit

Your country is full of paranoid conspiracy theorists who've spent decades hoarding canned food and guns for the end of the world, on any post about people living in horrific conditions in North Korea or somewhere there's a good chance an American will jump in to tell everyone how it's just like the US under Trump, American leftists spend a baffling amount of energy on loud self-hatred to make sure everyone knows they're not one of Those Americans, as though anyone else gives a shit, Americans collectively seem to have very little clue about the rest of the world, a small number of Americans literally tried to claim refugee status after the last election FFS, and a subreddit titled 'US defaultism' exists for a reason.

I like Americans for the most part, but I do genuinely find it very difficult to tell from the outside if we're seeing a legitimate slide towards fascism or if you're just having collective main character syndrome yet again. And if that means the rest of us don't have enough 'empathy for your plight' then sorry, but consider that you guys also haven't helped matters by making every fucking thing that's ever happened about you.

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InterBeard@reddit

I am not a conspiracy theorist You can review my reddit post history if you like. It is not hyperbole to say that America is sliding toward fascism at an alarming rate. The checks and balances of power are failing. The executive branch has taken over the judicial branch. Every branch of the federal government is being broken to serve the express interest of the executive.

[-]

France_Agent_74@reddit

As an American living abroad, you’re not going to convince people who’ve never lived there. News in other countries talks about the US a lot but not in a detailed systemic way so a lot of people have heard about some of the more news grabbing headlines but lack depth of understanding because they don’t understand domestic US government systems, their relations to state and local government, along with cultural and social matters. I often watch the national news in my country and they dedicate a few minutes of every episode to the US but provide very little context. As a result, I have people in my host country who are educated, smart, nice people, try to discuss with me US politics but the conversations are very limited in scope because people just don’t know what they’re talking about and don’t know what they don’t know.

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SophieElectress@reddit

This is actually the kind of comment I do find more convincing, because it's clearly coming from someone who has a perspective outside of the US as well. It's not that I think Trump can't possibly be posing an unprecedented danger, it's just hard to tell when so many Americans seem to act like everything is an unprecedented issue and their problems are the most important in the world, without even being aware that they're doing it most of the time. How are the rest of us supposed to know when something is actually a big deal vs Americans just being like that, unless, as you say, we're really clued up on your government institutions and society, which most of us aren't?

I don't think this is a phenomenon that's unique to Americans, btw. Europeans also have some insufferable attitudes that weren't even visible to me until I moved away from Europe and saw them from the outside, because before that I'd completely internalised them and thought they were just objectively true. It's probably true of every culture.

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RaySalsero1165@reddit

You’re the typical German who wants to lecture the rest of the world on US and global politics. The fact that some ppl prepare is not only due to politics, it’s also due to climate conditions: hurricanes, tornadoes, snow storms, etc. Most Americans disagree w/ the current administration, the ones that agree are those who support racism regardless of the long term consequences. The economy is a mess, prices are sky high, crime is rampant in some cities, etc., but there are also great places to live and smart, caring ppl. Don’t blame every American for what’s going on in the US, the same way the rest of the world won’t blame your ppl for allowing a foreigner to take over the nation and commit unspeakable atrocities… The fact that you speak English and probably lived in the States doesn’t make you a US constitution or culture scholar, your opinion is just that, an opinion, perhaps a flawed one. Last point, if it wasn’t for the Americans you would be speaking Russian right now…By the way, I’m not American and live in your country, I don’t badmouth all Germans or your country, the only ones I criticize is those who think and act like you.

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SophieElectress@reddit

Did you actually read what I said, or did you just decide what you thought I'd said and respond to that?

I'm not German, I've never lived in the US or Germany, and I'm not blaming random American individuals for Trump. I honestly don't even care that much about Trump, except when he does stuff that affects my life directly, which is (thankfully) rare. I am blaming them, collectively, for the fact I don't know how seriously to take the threat he poses to their society, because they - the ones I see online, at least - act like every single thing that happens to them is the worst thing that's ever happened to anyone anywhere in the world, and something the rest of us need to be paying urgent attention to. So I have no idea how to tell whether they're actually right this time or just being dramatic again.

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RaySalsero1165@reddit

Perhaps it’s the worst that has happened to them, have you considered that? I take the threat seriously regardless of where I live and will take measures to protect my family… it doesn’t matter how the rest of the world feels about it… There are ignorant ppl in all nations, I agree that they can cause their country’s downfall by supporting the one individual actually causing it…

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Only-Ad72@reddit

The US has been fascist for decades and decades. You just didn't care before Trump. Biden literally committed a genocide, that's a bigger deal than "elections".

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InterBeard@reddit

You do not know what you are talking about

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Only-Ad72@reddit

I'm sure your pointless elections are worth more than hundreds of thousands of Gazan lives.

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InterBeard@reddit

You are either ignorant or a bot

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Only-Ad72@reddit

Prioritizing human lives in one's worldview is not "ignorant"

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CongruentDesigner@reddit

I really wish this community would show a little more empathy for the plight of Americans considering fleeing their own country.

I swear you people are afraid of your own shadow 🙄

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HtownGatsby@reddit

No he takes more power day by day. It’s not an over exaggeration. There are numerous immigrants from fascists countries that have already left because they’ve seen where this is headed and don’t want to be here for it. Most people are under reacting.

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CautiousDance188@reddit

Who?

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InterBeard@reddit

You are so lucky. I wish I was you.

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NotTheLastStraw@reddit

The most popular party in Germany right now is the AfD.

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Mysterious_Newt2696@reddit

Which almost seems strange to me because I’m currently trying to flee the uk to the us for the same reason but with the opposite wing

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oils-and-opioids@reddit

Please. Ukrainians are fleeing their country, real physical danger.

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

I understand that racism is up everywhere, but how bad is AFD actually? Is it really worse than racist Magas doing nazi marches? what are the implications for immigrants in Germany?

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sailoorscout1986@reddit

Have you ever heard of Germany before?

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deep-sea-balloon@reddit

🤣

[-]

AyraLightbringer@reddit

As a White American you'll be fine. Anti-immigrant sentiments in Germany are mostly restricted to Muslims and PoC. AFD does not hold much political power (they are not part of any federal or state government), though they are very popular.

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ponpiriri@reddit

OP isn't white American and Americans don't get much of a pass in Germany

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das_stadtplan@reddit

If OP can potentially be read as being from Spain / Portugal / Southern Italy / Greek / even Turkey, they'll be read as white (=European roots) in Germany. The distinction between Hispanic and white is particular to the US.

OP will have however have to learn German, I'd say at least to a B2 if not C1 level.

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

I'm Hispanic

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AyraLightbringer@reddit

You'll likely be put in the Spanish/Italian (i.e. White) box then.

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bespoketranche1@reddit

I’m sorry but how are they different from racists marching in Germany?

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proof_required@reddit

Things like this happen

German police said on Monday that a group of school children had to cut short a math camp in the eastern state of Brandenburg after being racially insulted and threatened.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-school-group-leaves-camp-after-racist-insults/a-65555487

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Lidowoahohohoh@reddit

Magas doing Nazi marches? What the hell are you talking about? I was at a combo “No Kings/Free Palestine“ rally (really it’s was No Kings but all these protest seem to be circling each other now ) and I can’t tell you how many people were there were chanting anti-Israel, anti-Jew BS and holding Save Maduro signage. Was the last protest I went to because, sorry, the left is celebrating fascism in a heavy-handed way. They’ll throw the fascism label, but can’t define it and refuse to believe that they’re celebrating oppressive regimes that are actually fascist. But you’ll be fine in Germany because if you believe it’s the right carrying on the plight of the Nazis, you’re in for a rude awakening when you meet all the Jew haters in Germany. Have fun!

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RevelryByNight@reddit

How much time have you spent there? Of my 5 American friends that moved there, only 1 is happy. Don’t underestimate the culture shock, especially if you don’t speak the language.

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

Moving will always come with sacrifices I feel. Are they planning in moving back though? I would think the pros would outweight the cons

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MeggatronNB1@reddit

Dude, trust me when I say, what is happening now will pass. There is a new president every 4 years. USA is still the best country.

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RevelryByNight@reddit

1 is actively trying to move back, 2 already did, 1 is stuck and hates it.

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

That's crazy! I would never imagine it was that bad (for a lack of a better phrase)

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SweetFormer3544@reddit

The most popular political party in Germany is the AfD which is as right wing as Maga. The quality of life has severely decreased in the last 15-20 years to the point that there will be a huge economic crisis in 2-3 years when people can no longer cope with the food prices, rising rents, energy costs and increased unemployment.

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Educational_Gas_92@reddit

I won't talk about politics, but there is another issue that might trigger financial trouble. France is also not doing well financially it seems...can the Eurozone survive a financially struggling France and an also financially weak Germany?

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SweetFormer3544@reddit

Both France and Germany will bring the eurozone down but I also think that it might get propped up by countries like Poland and Spain but we're in for a horrible next few years that will be worse than the great depression.

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nah-nah-nanaha@reddit

Yeah, the rise of the AfD has really changed things. Xenophobia and racism are spreading like crazy. My daughter's husband was born and raised in Germany to a German mom but he had a Persian name from the other side of the family. The racism was so bad that he legally changed his name to a German name to stop the bullying. Even Germans are being targeted if they're deemed as 'not German enough.'

My daughter is a naturalized German citizen and she speaks fluent German. She has studied and worked in Germany for over 10 years. She frequently gets clients refusing to work with her because they can tell she's foreign due to her accent. They clearly state that they'll only deal with Germans.

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SweetFormer3544@reddit

I can relate to what you’re saying and it’s unfortunate that it’s like this but I also don’t think it has ever changed, they were more discrete about it after 1945 until 2015. It’s one of the few countries that still categorise their own citizens by blood, citizenship path, birth, etc… They don’t see Germans as equal and as you mentioned, they will even discriminate against Germans who are German by blood because they don’t have the right “German” mentality.

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Wunid@reddit

In fact, the opposite is true. Most countries in the Old World grant citizenship on the basis of descent rather than place of birth. Citizenship granted on the basis of place of birth is the norm in the New World, i.e. the former colonies. This is not exactly unique to Germany. In fact, German citizenship is one of the easiest to obtain in Europe.

I’m talking about the law, not xenophobia or racism, because I suspect that in Germany or Europe these issues are more prevalent than in the US, given the ethnic and national composition of society.

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Reasonable-Ease9554@reddit

Man i really wonder where you all are in Germany - my whole family is and still leaves in the deep east Germany and it’s nothing like that. Even my very brown husband likes it in east Germany. I would have thought the east is the worst but man what you guys describe sounds nuts.

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SophieElectress@reddit

I would think the pros would outweight the cons.

On what basis do you think that?

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Sure_Grapefruit5820@reddit

I was waiting for a list of the Pros.

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dunimal@reddit

Kit Kat Club Berghain Really good UG techno Arts

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

No, I'm asking. If they stay there I would assume it's because of that, otherwise they would move back

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RevelryByNight@reddit

It costs a fuckton to move internationally. And then there kids and divorce and extended family and and and… “just moving” isn’t as easy for everyone as it may be for you

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probablyaythrowaway@reddit

Yeah the German culture shock is real.
I’m from the UK but spent a lot of time in Germany before I moved there and I still got hit with big culture shocks and frustrations.

It is a nice place to live if you can get over those though. But they are big hurdles.

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romance_and_puzzles@reddit

Germany is a big country. There’s a big difference whether you’d be moving to Cologne or Dresden.

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

He's from Augsburg, Bavaria

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FlippinHeckles@reddit

Germany offers strong systemic support for a healthy lifestyle through universal healthcare, better work-life balance, and a food environment that encourages less processed options. The USA offers higher potential earnings and a massive wellness industry, but this is offset by much higher healthcare costs, weaker social safety nets, and systemic lifestyle risks like higher obesity rates and a higher reliance on ultra-processed foods.

Southern Germany (Bavaria) has a higher cost of living than northern Germany.

But that is a purely pragmatic way of looking at it.

Settling in a another country is never easy. It takes awhile before you start seeing the benefits. There are risks.

Your partner’s wish to be closer to his parents is understandable. I have been away from my main family and I have missed many significant family moments. Including the death of my father. I went back for the funeral.

When your family starts to disappear what doesn’t disappear is the memories. My memories go with me wherever I am. I have no regrets of not going back home to my parents to live. I hold my family in my heart and location doesn’t change it.

I have my own immediate family to think about and I would not uproot them without it being an absolute together decision with benefits for all.

You moving would only be for your partners benefit.

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Available_Ask3289@reddit

Germany doesn’t have universal healthcare.

It has a compulsory insurance system. You either insure through a statutory health insurer or a private health insurer. Both you have to pay premiums for.

Universal healthcare is what countries like the UK, Australia and Italy have. Everyone is insured no matter what. In Germany, many people are uninsured despite it being compulsory.

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rroastbeast@reddit

Here’s a fact check for ya:
“The comment leans on a technicality (funding structure) to argue Germany lacks "universal" care, but in practice, the outcome is the same: near-total coverage. The UK’s NHS is tax-funded; Germany’s SHI is payroll-tax-funded. Both are universal in effect.
TL;DR: The comment is pedantic and factually shaky. Germany’s system is universal in coverage, just not in funding model. The uninsured rate is negligible.”

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oils-and-opioids@reddit

Not that it's as bad as America, but Germany's "strong social safety net", is in decline.

The German chancellor is trying to weaken people's ability to get welfare, trying to force longer work weeks, complaining about paid sick time, bumping up the cost of having a spouse on your health insurance plan, planning to have people pay out the ass for pension for current old people while demanding they save up for themselves.

All the while, politicians get paid high wages with private healthcare and private pensions.

The Germany of 2026 and beyond is a much bleaker place to live.

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lesllle@reddit

I've heard that Bavaria is more racist against non-white skin than other regions. You will struggle with not knowing the language and may be unemployable. I would not do this. Just plan that you can do longer visits and keep an emergency fund for last minute flights.

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Rough-Neighborhood18@reddit

I believe there are some U.S. military bases/presence in Bulgaria. If you could find a job in the Government your salary/quality of life would be better.

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FoxHolllow@reddit

If you want to be able to communicate in english and find latino friends, it's much better to live in Munich. It's pricier, but more opportunity, more english speakers, more spanish speakers, more culture, and just a better quality of life. The only pro of Augsburg imo would be the price of homes and more opportunities to immerse yourself in the german language. You can even find a place in Northwest or West outskirts of Munich to make it easier for your husband to reach his parents. It's a short train ride even from the main station.

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lovepeacefakepiano@reddit

I feel that would translate to a great quality of life in terms of cost of living and proximity to nature but you’re likely to encounter insularity/xenophobia/racism. I’m from a different area of Germany and was a bit horrified when I lived in Munich for a while.

If you really are considering it I would also suggest your husband look for a job FIRST. Don’t move without something lined up.

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reschcrypt@reddit

Name and shame! You prolly got hateful comments/behaviour from a certain group, whose numbers exponentially grew since 2015.

Sadly, there‘s a reason why AfD is growing. And no, it‘s not just racism but the ignorance of many people categorizing e.g. saying anything against migrants is racism.

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Drunkensailor1985@reddit

Bavaria is by far the best state and place in germany to life in

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InterferenceStudio@reddit

Economically - Germany is now in the worst state in over 30 years - so I wouldn't recommend it. He should think about parents after he left.

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lesllle@reddit

Don't do this. Figure out a different way for him to see his parents more. Unless you are going to move and be unemployable (no language, region that prefers white skin) and become the care taker of his parents. Sounds like a recipe for a lost future.

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OgasMaitai@reddit

Dont move somewhere you don't speak the language, you shouldnt even need to ask this.

What do you think you will do there? You will not have a job, you will be a third class citizen.

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RaySalsero1165@reddit

I’m Puerto Rican, have lived on and off in Germany for 25 yrs, married to an Italian. The language won’t be a show stopper, my German is very limited (I speak English at work) and I get by just fine, besides, my wife moved here as a child and speaks it fluently. I owned a home here before, sold it b/c my job forced me to move to the States, been back for two yrs and haven’t been able to find a home that fits our needs (has to be a bungalow) and finding a suitable plot to build a house has been a huge challenge. Renting won’t be difficult, buying or building are different stories. My advice, be truly cognizant of all the changes you’ll have to work through before you commit… I’ve truly enjoyed my life here but we’re looking at retiring in Spain, a lot less complications, could’ve bought a brand new home last wk that will be finished in Sep…

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dontbanemeplease@reddit

Moving to Germany is cool, if you come from a third world country .

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FreeFortuna@reddit

We'll be basically starting from scratch. I also don't speak fluent German, and my job is administrative which will make it very hard for me to find anything

These are strong reasons not to do it, if you don’t have a compelling reason to. Starting over is rough, even harder if you’re not fluent in the local language, even harder if you’re not confident you can get a job. And for what payoff? You already have “a really nice comfortable life.”

But you could keep working on a “maybe” plan. Keep working on your German, and try to move pieces into place so that a move wouldn’t be so logistically difficult. That way, if your partner’s parents start having health problems or your comfortable US life falls apart under the regime, then you’d have more ducks in a row for the move. Worst-case scenario then would be that you don’t move after putting considerable effort into becoming fluent in German. That’s definitely not a bad thing; at the very least, your partner might enjoy it.

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phwark@reddit

They have a compelling reason: his parents are getting old.

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brdt27@reddit

I think I could find a lot of friends in the Turkish community since they seem to be closer to the Latino culture.

While the analogy of Turks:Germany as Latinos:USA might be correct, you will not have a lot in common otherwise.

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dunimal@reddit

Likely nothing as a group, potentially forever interpersonal things in common would be just as likely as it would be with other Germans, especially since you are married to one, OP.

As a US expat (to SEA, not EU/Germany) I feel like you have an incredibly naive outlook on every aspect of this potential move, at least with your present approach.

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Anxious-Slip-4701@reddit

This made my eyes widen and my brain just spin. Has OP ever even been around Turks in Germany?

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SingingSunshine1@reddit

Germany does not seem to be doing well economically. Read up on that.
I would stay in the USA for as long as possible.

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

Ehhh that's not what I'm reading at all

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CongruentDesigner@reddit

Go to search box for this sub and simply type in "Germany".

Read the experiences. You'll quickly be convinced to stay where you are

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B3stThereEverWas@reddit

lol I just did that and...you weren't wrong. I didn't read a single good thing in the countless threads on expat life in Germany

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HB97082@reddit

Ok, that’s a major exaggeration. I don’t think OP should move to Germany after reading their personal info, but plenty of people move to Germany and see it as an upgrade. But if you have to love the German culture. It’s a specific culture, it’s not outright superior.

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SetEnvironmental9368@reddit

OP shouldn't over because they're completely clueless. They don't know the first thing about German culture, German language, or German labor laws. Hell, they even think that the Turks are the Latinos of Europe. 🤣🤣🤣

Pure ignorance. They should stay in the US, because Germany will spit them out like a piece of gum.

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CongruentDesigner@reddit

And it's not just reddit brain either

Expats in Germany Are among the Unhappiest & Loneliest Worldwide

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BakaTensai@reddit

Go to the German jobs subreddit, from what they are saying it’s a desolate beak wasteland - but a lot of those kind of subs on Reddit are overdramatic

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Reasonable-Ease9554@reddit

Very much so, I’m a German in the US with all My family still in Germany. And we got to Germany a lot and moving back to Europe. But damn what you read on Reddit is wild comparison to what friends/family experience. Of course the job market is rough, bureaucracy sucks the life out of you but sometimes they also just whine because they don’t know what they have. That’s coming from someone making a lot of money in the US. The US is great, if everything goes right but it can change on a dime. 2 of my neighbors were later off during paternity leave and my friend during her maternity leave.. welcome to the US. It’s hard to compare even at times, my Herman friend moved with her black husband to Germany 2 years ago. He also complains about the wages he is getting paid but had less racism experiences there than here in even the DC area. Everyone’s experience is different.. but I get it, not many happy ppl are on Reddit. I personally was just looking for crazy rental experiences lol

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BakaTensai@reddit

I have some German friends in the US and while they want to move back, they have said multiple times how low the salaries are (biotech) so I think they will just stay in the US until they retire. I was just in Berlin and while it felt a little depressing for some reason (probably the cold weather) I think it was a nice city. I have dreams of moving to Europe but idk if it is feasible.

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Humble-Ad541@reddit

Is this a joke? Im an Amarican that lives in Germany and absolutely loves it here but the economy is totally fucked. High unemployment, low wages compared to US, high inflation ect ect. Its only going to get worse as the demographic bomb goes off over the next 10 years. If my income did not come from a US sourse i could not survive here.

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oils-and-opioids@reddit

Go to r/Germany and read some of the cheery posts about people struggling to get the Ausländerbehörde to answer them after a year of waiting or to desperately find a job with anything under C1 German. Or their companies doing mass layoffs while they're in the 2 year expected wait for a citizenship answer, which then means their application will be denied.

I'm sure they'll all tell you the economy is doing fantastic

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komradebae@reddit

I’m also a non-white American who moved here in 2023. Things have changed a lot even in just that short time. German economy entered a recession, anti immigrant sentiment is high with AfD on the rise, also possible war on the horizon…

Now is probably the worst time to move here in over 20 years unless you already have personal ties to the country or a secure job lined up. And even then—like, I know that if I lose my current job, my time here is up.

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Jolly_Conflict@reddit

You came here to ask for advice on if it would be worth the move and people are giving you their experiences. You should be prepared for a mixture of yes and no 🤷🏽‍♀️

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crossing10@reddit

No it’s not

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deadlynothing@reddit

The fact that you think the Turkish community in Germany is anything like latin American community in USA is reason enough for you to not make your move to Germany while your life in the USA is already good (by your own admittance).

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loreal315@reddit

What does this mean?

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Chemical-Practice908@reddit

You’ll never know

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no_copypasta@reddit

Germany is on a downward trajectory I would not do it

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-Copenhagen@reddit

As opposed to the US which has become great again recently?

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deep-sea-balloon@reddit

They're both having issues🤷🏾‍♀️ one does not cancel out the other. And as a foreigner anywhere, you're likely to get the brunt of the locals anger (unless you're wealthy, that might help)

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no_copypasta@reddit

Paying 40/50% taxes is a scam, while there is lots of immigrants or non working people profiting from welfare

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Beneficial_Mix_6205@reddit

don’t do it. you’ll be broke and unhappy.

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deep-sea-balloon@reddit

And possibly stuck 😬

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deep-sea-balloon@reddit

I considered a move to Germany and had job interviews in different locations in the country (I'm already in the EU). In the end, I decided it wasn't for me after the near constant racism I experienced on just those short visits.

I'll just stay where I am in the EU and/or move back to the US one day. Better the devil you know and I already spent nearly ten years understanding "the devil" in the current country. I felt Germany would be worse.

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Forward-Smile-5531@reddit

I've immigrated to several countries as an adult. For reference I am a white American as is my husband.

I am not exaggerating when I say the worst move we made was to Germany. And we are in Augsburg. The housing market is crazy. Finding something to rent took 8 months and was far more expensive than we anticipated.

Germans are not friendly. They are nice. But friendly isn't their culture. I don't know my neighbors names. Finding people to do things with has only been with other immigrants.

Learning German is hard, but there are classes to take . For us we've learned other languages so this was a challenge we already knew to expect. However what we didn't expect was the culture of Germany has no patience with people learning.

We are very much alone here. Nature is beautiful and I love the trails. The festivals are fun, but again people keep to themselves. Food in my opinion is only ok, everything is bland.

If you don't have a job lined up it will be very difficult. I have several friends who are struggling to find anything.

We will not be staying. We are finishing the school year for my child. We have it a good long try. But it isn't worth it for us. I don't appreciate the culture even when I have had the explanation of why things are done the way they are. I grew up fully American it just clashes with this closed off culture.

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Phronesis2000@reddit

Great comment, and I identify with most of it. I think before moving here (or Scandinavia or the Netherlands) people really underestimate the cultural difference between Anglo and Germanic cultures.

Germans are not interested in spontaneity, random new friends or banter. Generally they have a very small group of friends and family they have socialised with their entire lives and aren't really interested in adding new people to their circle.

This means that most anglos stick to anglo circles which, as well as making language-learning hard, makes you think 'Why am I living here?'.

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KulshanStudios@reddit

Yeah, I've found it considerably easier to socialize and make friends here in Georgia🇬🇪 than I did in Germany during my visits, or even Sweden, of which I am a citizen

Although last time I was in Sweden, with my Georgian GF, we accidentally made friends with a random neighbor in my village, completely spontaneously

But he had just come back from working IN GEORGIA building H&M stores

So he brought back Georgia with him lol

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deep-sea-balloon@reddit

That's interesting. ive never been to Georgia but all of the Georgian people I've met in France have been friendly and open to speak, over and beyond the locals.

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Forward-Smile-5531@reddit

The cultures I've lived in are vastly different from my American upbringing. And yet far easier to immigrate into. And far easier to make a social life.

Even when one plans to have cultural differences, Germany still is more difficult than you can plan for.

There is a reason Germany is ranked so low for immigration satisfaction.

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Helpful_Solid1823@reddit

We live in Bavaria (Munich) and my American partner and me are thinking of doing the opposite really. It will be easier for me to find jobs in English than it is for him here in German. There are many talks by politicians about reducing or even eliminating many benefits that make Germany more attractive for living compared to USA (Elterngeld, spouse splitting, free childcare etc) so it really makes me wonder if it makes sense staying here. Apartments are the same prices or more compared to USA and salaries are significantly lower. Extreme right has the strong support at the moment and it just keeps getting higher. Also, taxes are insane (not only salary tax but also inheritance tax, owning a property including the one outside of Germany, ETFs etc).

On the other hand, living in Europe is really nice, there is lots of culture, beautiful and diverse nature as well as very safe and nice environment for rising a family.

If you have a place to live and don’t have to pay rent and have at least one good salary, it might be a nice change. But I wouldn’t move without it at the moment considering economy and politics in Germany atm. Also make sure that you figure out the tax situation and your property before moving here and becoming German tax resident.

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EchoAris@reddit

Yes this. Currently thinking about moving back to the US as well. Munich is draining financially and things are changing.

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Helpful_Solid1823@reddit

Yeah, and they are changing fast. It’s a very difficult decision tho since both countries are in a strange phase (to say at least) and it doesn’t look like things will get better anytime soon.

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EchoAris@reddit

Having lived in both Germany and the US and being a recruiter I’ll give you the following advice.

Don’t do it. It’s extremely difficult to find an administrative role if you don’t speak German. It depends on where you’re going but if the answer isn’t Berlin, then the chances are really bad and you will definitely be making a lot less money.

As you mentioned, housing prices are extremely pricey in Germany right now as well. And I’d argue you’d be mostly relying on your husbands income for a while but it also depends on what he does for a living, it might be hard for him to find a job right away as well.

If you’re having a comfortable life in the US, and you’re saving a good chunk. Don’t do it is my opinion. If you’re doing it for his aging parents, then maybe, but be realistic about the downgrade in pay you’ll have. And don’t underestimate how hard it is to really make friends in Germany (especially if you don’t speak proper German but even without).

Just out of curiosity, where in Germany would you be moving to?

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MangoesInDisguise@reddit

Don't go. It's a miserable country and you'll be miserable. This is coming from a German who is very happy to have left that country behind. My friends who are still there are almost all depressed. It's going to be worse as a foreigner who doesn't speak the language. You'll be lonely and miserable.

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Rough-Neighborhood18@reddit

Listen to them.

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Rough-Neighborhood18@reddit

Also the Turks wont like you

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Rough-Neighborhood18@reddit

Coming from a Military member in Germany, be ready for the dullness of life & a huge culture shock. Germans do like the latino culture depending on where you move to. The U.S. Military communities ( Stuttgart, Weisbaden, Spang, KMC, etc ) would keep you close to “home” while also being able to fully dive into German culture. Housing is high in those communities/big cities, pay is terribly low in Germany. If you can have U.S. Remote work, or work as a federal contractor of GS employee, your quality of life will be a lot better.

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Short-Jellyfish4389@reddit

It's unlikely that u will not enjoy it.

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sebadc@reddit

Stay put as long as you don't speak German and have a job lined up.

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leonardcohenisgod@reddit

No.

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FoggyPeaks@reddit

Would not need a good idea. Can they come to US? Have you ever done the math on regular travel?

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Ok_Confidence9828@reddit

What is it like for an American to retire in Freiburg Germany

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Daidrion@reddit

However, I'm not sure if we'll be able to achieve the same quality of life.

No, of course not. If you're having a good stable life in the US, it's a makes no sense to move to Germany.

I think I could find a lot of friends in the Turkish community since they seem to be closer to the Latino culture.

Oh wow.

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Apotropaic-Pineapple@reddit

Even if you knew German, the salaries are abysmal relative to the cost of living while income tax is high. Capital gains is around 26%, which is a lot especially when you're selling a few stocks every year. Getting ahead financially isn't really expected for most people because the sense is that you depend on the state and welfare system, and then eventually get your pension.

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Sad_Invite_5228@reddit

Better to stay and work on improving your own country, especially with such comfortable living situation

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napalmtree13@reddit

In all honesty, you likely will struggle quite a bit to find a job. For admin work you will almost certainly need native-level fluency and even if you achieve it…most companies who look at your resume will not see it as good enough. Their ideal candidate is a native German speaker who is fluent in at least English.

If you’re comfortable in the U.S. I’d stay there. The only real advantage here is healthcare. You won’t go bankrupt here if either of you ever gets sick, there’s no copays and medications are a lot cheaper. If you already have excellent health insurance and can reasonably assume it will stay that way, then stay there.

I’m a lot happier in Germany, but my circumstances are different than yours. For me, American life was not great and I wasn’t comfortable.

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beekeeny@reddit

LHard to say with the information you shared. Which city do you live in in the US? And in which industry are both of you working?

Since he’s German, he might find a job relatively easily, depending on his industry. For you, however, finding a job will generally not be as easy, and in some industries, it could be nearly impossible.

So the real question is: how would your life compare to your current life if he ends up being the primary breadwinner for a while?

How much can you make selling your house. Housing should be cheaper in Augsburg in comparison. The saving could help supporting your daily expenses for a while until you learn German and find a job.

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OldWhereas7439@reddit

Absolutely not - are you crazy?

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housewithablouse@reddit

Maybe let's adjust the picture painted of the political situation a bit: As in most other Western countries, the far right is on the rise and this is noticably influencing society. However, there are no militias in the streets detaining people with brute force, no chaotic mass layoffs, the judicial system is largely uneffected, and I'd say the political culture is less extreme overall. The question is of course how this translates to your actual experience in everyday lifr, provided you don't put too much weight on what you hear from politicians on the news. As a native German, I'd say that Germans communicate less expressive and extreme compared to Americans. That means that it is less likely to witness any outbursts or just crazy talk, but Germans on average will also be less politically correct and consciously friendly. This leads to the common perception of Germans to be unfriendly and reserved. It's also definitely true that there is more casual implicit racism, i.e. people won't use racial slurs or exclude you but you might more often feel treated slightly differently. I personally know many Americans who don't regret having relocated to Germany, some for decades, but this is obviously survivor's bias. What I'm trying to say is: there are definitely reasons to move here, but it's certainly not for everyone.

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SeanBourne@reddit

From pretty much every standpoint, I'd say no. It'll kill your career, you'll feel isolated as Germany is notoriously tough to integrate into (and yes, racism will be a thing), your ability to save will go down , etc., etc.

Conversely, while "things are getting worse" in the US... it's not like they are better in Germany. The AfD is very much on the rise, and Germany's demographic picture coupled with their sky high energy costs have put their economy in a decline that they don't have a great pathway out of. (Fertility rates are low AND they don't integrate immigrants well... and that's when they even want immigrants - so demography is going to stay fucked. They don't want nuclear nor fossil fuels as they are net zero idealists... but Germany isn't a great place for solar or wind - so the energy situation is going to stay fucked for a while at least).

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Molo3000@reddit

Here in Berlin not speaking German isn't that big a deal and there's an international community that is somewhat aware of racism. Still, in Germany you will make more racist experiences than in the US.

Life here isn't better or worse. But it's different. Working hours in Germany are among the lowest in the world, overtime isn't a thing, and it's easy to go part time. Income per hour worked in PPP is the same as the US, and here it's easy to cut down on work hours and go part-time and you'll still have a good life quality because of the public infrastructure. So you get more quality time with friends and damily. Culture, also English-speaking is good here in Berlin, there's theatre, stand-up, bar quizzes, drag shows etc. in English every day. Travelling within Europe is fun and way cheaper than in the states and you've get an easy time travelling a lot, 30 days a year, more if you go for a part-time job. In Berlin material things aren't as important as status symbols, most people I know here don't own a car.

But you gotta be into city life, here ppl life in smaller apartments close to where life happens, in the city, not in houses in the suburbs.

For smaller towns in Germany moving here is definitely a whole lot more of commitment.

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Phronesis2000@reddit

Income per hour worked in PPP is the same as the US

Not at OP's US income point, which is obviously high if they save 18k per year.

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housewithablouse@reddit

Agreed, it's way harder to earn an actual upper middle class income, which would be close to 100K by now. I generally think that OP should not estimate the challenge to integrate into the German labor market on thw level they need to to maintaim their standard of living.

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Phronesis2000@reddit

Yeah, that's the key thing. While salaries, overall, aren't bad in Germany, they are relatively very flat. Being a qualified office drone doesn't mean that much of an salary premium over a minimum wage bakery worker.

It is really difficult to earn more than 100k here unless you (a) work for an international company (as I do) (b) work in German in a highly regulated field (eg law or tax) (c) work as a senior SWE with managerial responsibilities.

Americans often don't understand the difference with pensions and investment vehicles: There is nothing like the 401k here, so you can't just take a massive chunk of your gross income, and throw it into mutual funds/ETFs (Rurup is an insurance product, not an investment vehicle, with all capital going direct to the provider).

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Available_Ask3289@reddit

I’ll put it bluntly, no.

It would be a catastrophic decision to give up a good, comfortable life where you can save that amount of money to move to Germany where the government will bleed you dry down to the last pfennig. Rents are hideously expensive, health insurance is getting more expensive and the two of you will have to provide your own statutory insurance if you’re even eligible. If not, private which will be really expensive.

If you’re already living a comfortable life with a fair whack of money set aside each year, stay away from Germany and just visit more often rather than moving.

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ChetoChompipe@reddit

I’ve been in Germany for 15 years. If I could move to the USA I would do it in a heartbeat. Sure no country is perfect and each have their own set of problems, but in Germany you will save less and you won’t be able to live such a good life like the one you are living now. Germany is good if you are poor or starting from the bottom. If your life is already good in the USA don’t make the mistake to throw everything away. It is different if your life is not good then it is somewhat reasonable.

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ConsiderationSad6271@reddit

Just start setting things up there. Buy a cheap home and renovate. Make frequent trips.

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Competitive_Knee9890@reddit

Hell no, stay away, you’re saving, you’re in a much more free culture, housing is terrible in the EU, culture in Germany is the opposite of customer centric as well. And the morons recently shut down nuclear plants

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dallyan@reddit

Do you have a career you care about? I would not do it.

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ponpiriri@reddit

You won't be able to achieve the same quality of life. You should also look up everything happening right now in the EU because it's the same as what's happening in the US and Japan.

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NotTheLastStraw@reddit

I have friends that want to move to Japan so badly and I’m like, have you seen what Takaichi has been doing recently?

I feel like Japan has the best PR team in the world that works to hide the problems in Japan

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Significant_Menu_313@reddit

Well, well. This is me 20 years ago. We really thought about moving to Germany to be there for his aging parents. They just passed away this Christmas within weeks of each other, so it would have been decades before we could move back to the US. It isn't terribly easy to live there for longer than a few months without a work visa, a bunch of legal consults, a bunch of money spent. My sister in law is an attorney for the German government and I do speak German and it is helpful for sure. But it is not a simple thing to be an expat, regardless. If you are even considering moving there, improve your German - it makes life so much easier. Fortunately, Germans are pretty well-versed in English, especially those under the age of 35.

About the "being brown" - as in the US, it depends where you are. When my husband and I are in his old college town, among his very liberal friends, there is absolutely no hint of outward racism from anyone. However, in some parts of Germany, that is not the case. You will have to feel it out yourself. And Turkish Germans will not see you as a fellow POC. Absolutely not. The Turks we know are very insular even after 80 years of heavy immigration.

In the end we decided to spend a month there every year instead of full on moving.

Best of luck with your decision making. Happy to answer any questions.

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Mysterious_Newt2696@reddit

Currently Europe is politically and financially a no go zone

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jumpingjedflash@reddit

US couple (52m/50f) in Bavaria 1 year so far.

We LOVE community, green space, traditions, events, lifestyle, food safety, healthcare, public services, and beer!

We are learning German. Our portfolio is largely diversified into Asia and Europe. Quality of life is better.

MAGA family and friends disparage our decision while we mourn for the loss of US credibility, affordability, safety, education, healthcare and housing.

1 factor was the FDA restricting a treatment and health insurance denials of prescribed care. #LuigiWasWithMe

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MosterHoster@reddit

Nice. There are so many reasons to love it in Germany. I have always enjoyed visiting. I wonder if the Germans though, as you brought up the loss of US credibility, do they mourn the loss of Nordsream and pin the blame (rightly in my opinion) on USA or do they overlook that? Are they realistic on benefits of trade with Russia or do most people parrot the 'putin is evil' narrative?

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Informal-Prize6501@reddit

Yes. It's certainly worth it if you want to be miserable. On the other hand, you won't have to deal with a crazy orange "president".

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ecom_architect@reddit

It really depends on the place you choose to live and where you'll gonna work. In a big city of the western part of germany you will probably see a decent income (high taxes) and less racism than you'll problably encounter in the US. I used to live in germany for about 4 years, I'm swiss and know the language, but even though it was hard to connect. I was in a very small city.

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HB97082@reddit

Yes, they will experience less racism in Germany… because it will all be behind their back and in a language they don’t understand, lol

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Super-Visit-114@reddit

There is literally nothing you will gain in terms of emotional connection, social life, and cultural traits by moving to Germany. Those aspects are downgrade for most of the people in the world unless they are German or grow up in similar culture (like Nordic).

The only advantages are basically working conditions and unemployment benefits, some average pay, some relative political stability, proximity to other eu countries for traveling.

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bespoketranche1@reddit

I almost want OP to experience the outdated bureaucracy. Go bang your head against the wall at the post office. That, alone, has driven expats far more prepared mad.

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YetAnotherGuy2@reddit

I'm not going to sugar cost e it: it's a massive change in trajectory of your life. If you manage it, it's fantastic but the process is looking and hard.

It is a complete reset, you have to start at the bottom of the food chain. The days where you moved with the company are (almost) over.

Additionally, German (like just of continental Europe) mentality is noticeably different from US mindset - you'll have to deal with those differences including the lack of friends. It's takes time to connect with people here because they don't really let others in, let alone that it is hard to connect to others the older you get.

Germany has no history of dealing with foreigners, unlike the old colonial powers so overall awareness of the PoC experience is generally much lower than in other countries. There will be a lot of off color remarks and people will not understand why you might feel offended. Your view of the Turkish experience isn't bad - I've always seen similarities between Latino or Black subcultures and the Turkish one, although that is slowly dropping off as the era of "Gastarbeiter" has been over for a while. In fact a larger portion of foreigners are EU citizens nowadays.

As American you always get a not of a pass because they won't assume you're in Germany for financial reasons - like most other Western European countries. At the same time you have to answer for ever bullshit thing that happens in the US.

However you decide: this is a long term thing. Of you manage to get over the first 10 years, things can be really nice. Less commercial and a different place of life which can be very rewarding.

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Competitive-Leg-962@reddit

There is zero overlap between Turkish and Latino culture; and most Turks and other MENA folks in Germany are low income and often have family ties to some illegal activities. It's part of the society I would actively avoid.

Something you need to understand about Germany or Europe in general is that higher taxes and lower income don't translate to lower quality of life. Check your purchase power in the US after taxes, health insurance, co-pays and all other deductions that are all inclusive in Germany. A lower savings rate doesn't necessarily mean lower quality.

Housing is getting quite expensive indeed, you will hardly find a house under $400k unless it's in a terrible condition or very undesirable region. Germany is also very densely populated, so you can't just move "into the countryside" since that's at most 30 min from the nearest city, prices hardly differ.

Lastly, check the region: Southern Germany is the most expensive part of the country, but also has highest salaries; but some areas are still very unaffordable. Personally I would also suggest not to go to any of the largest cities, or you risk being stuck in an expat bubble and will never properly integrate; so avoid Frankfurt, Berlin, Hamburg, Munich.

Rather aim for a smaller city in a border region in West Germany (Aachen, Münster, maybe Saarbrücken).

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Soccergirl1979@reddit

Nope. Stay here. Germany is not going to be nice for you given the factors you listed above.

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_Jope_@reddit

Honestly, youre underestimating the difficulties. The economy is shit right now, there's no job, and companies are mostly prioritizing German natives. I've been looking for a job for months now, and my German is fluent. I'm not saving any money, my partner is and that can cause resentment. It's hard to see your own people at home thriving and you well, not If you don't speak any German you'll be a bit lonely tbh. You might hbg out with other immigrants but I find those friendships hard bc most tend to leave at some point =( The Turkish also mostly keep to themselves here, as they usually keep speaking Turkish, have big families (generalizing obviously here) and are religious

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Mysterious_Dance5461@reddit

Dont do it

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Content-Shower5754@reddit

Are you able to rent your house out here? You would have income from it, depending on if you have a loan on your home.

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Party_Nothing_7605@reddit

Based on your situation I’d say no. You have it pretty good right now. Starting over sucks especially if you think it would be hard for your skills to transfer.

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keinjp@reddit

Rising crime rates, cultural rudeness, won't own your home. Doesn't sound great?

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oils-and-opioids@reddit

I also don't speak fluent German

Do you speak any German?

how is the housing, job market and savings situation currently

shit. I've seen listings for houses that will be demolished in ten years still go for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
super shit, especially if you're not a native speaking German. Unemployment is over 6%

https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Wirtschaft/Konjunkturindikatoren/Arbeitsmarkt/arb210a.html

penalises you unless you're already rich as hell.

I think I could find a lot of friends in the Turkish community since they seem to be closer to the Latino culture.

I'm curious as to the thinking here. Of my friends in Germany with Mexican American backgrounds none of them have found strong links to the local Turkish community.

my job is administrative which will make it very hard for me to find anything (I think).

Given the lack of German and the economic situation, you'll probably find nothing relevant, but with enough German courses you can get an Ausbildung most likely.

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Tardislass@reddit

Have you read up about what is happening in Germany? AfD is the most popular political party now and Merz and Co are doing their best to elevate them. Also jobs and economy are stagnant especially among IT and car manufacturing. And anti immigration idiots are getting bolder. As a brown person you may be subject to some of it especially among the young and drunk which can be jarring.

Honestly sounds like you have a good deal in US and could travel to Germany yearly to see parents.

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allergicturtle@reddit

You will never achieve the lifestyle you have in the US or the financial freedom there. I have lived for 7 years in Berlin and 2 years in Munich. Wages are low already and there is a serious recession. You will be lonely and there is racism. BUT if you come for a few years you can enjoy Europe and move back.

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monicalewinsky8@reddit

I love love love Germany. You have family and community, I would go if his income can sustain you. Everything else is figuroutable, but please don’t underestimate the toll an international move can have on a relationship.

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Puzzled_Movie4743@reddit

I won’t recommend but you do you.

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Puzzleheaded-Team894@reddit

Just know that:

- if Americans don’t welcome immigrants then they shouldn’t immigrate elsewhere either!
- if Americans come here than the situation will also worsen in here. What’s happening in the US right didn’t happen on its own!

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Awkward_News8770@reddit

If the fascist authoritarian administration continues unchecked in America, soon your extra money will be eaten up by hyperinflation and whatever other thievery they have planned (mandatory conversion to digital currency, potential digital control of our personal bank accounts, etc.). Bootlicker Kevin Warsh just replaced our fed chair (who was acting independently as it should be) - and he will quickly reshape policy so that the regime has MORE control of our money, not less. Just look to history how this proceeds - they are following the nazi playbook to the letter. Read about how the fascists stole from these countries and citizens to gain ultimate control in Russia, Germany's Hitler era, Mussolini, Orban in Hungary.

In your shoes, I would most certainly begin the process of traveling to Germany a couple times before fall with the goal of possibly relocating and see how it resonates. I think anyone leaving the country should do so before 2027.

All Americans are in danger and it will get worse over time if nothing stops them. If you think I'm being hyperbolic, just listen to a podcast with Ruth Ben-Giat or Timothy Snyder - both are experts on authoritarian regimes in history. Both have said we are in a tenuous position right now, but authoritarianism has already taken hold.

Travel to Germany and look more closely at buying/renting there, what the social imoacts (leaving friends, chosen family in the US) and economic costs (jobs, monthly cost of living) will be. Take steps to preserve and shore up your wealth for the time being. The more specific information you have, the more you will see the right path emerge.

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Cas_Dehook@reddit

Rent a year. I like Germany, but it has to be your cup of tea. Between regions and cities there can be huge cultural differences as well. So definitely don’t just move to Germany without getting a good feel for that.

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NoMansCat@reddit

Don't.
You have good positions, are well off, and in the overall have a nice life.
You will move to an EU country, and racism will be as much present here than in the US, in a totally different way.
But in the daily life, you will feel it, especially if you are not able to secure a well-paying job because it's not very different from the US:
People are really valued by how much money they make. It's more sneaky than in the US, but it doesn't make it less of a reality.

There is a lot of communitarianism in the EU as well, not only based on the skin color, but also on the language, religion, and overall culture.

If you don't talk a very fluent level in German, as far as I know, something like at least C1, you won't be able to socialize that much and make friends. It's not specific to Germany, it will be the same in France.
You will stay isolated, limited to socializing only with expats.
You won't be able even to comfort yourself with money. The wages are a lot lower in the EU. The only good side is the price (near free) of the healthcare if you are working..

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Gods_ShadowMTG@reddit

No, not really.

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

Why not?

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antizana@reddit

Because you’d be starting at basically minimum wage / minimum level if you don’t speak German and don’t have a lot of higher qualifications. Germany is a country where you can talk to people in English and practically 95% of your live living there happens in German, both work and socially. If your language ability isn’t up to that, it’s going to be hard going for you. Society really functions in German and a simple administrative job would be unachievable for you. You don’t say if you have kids but even as a SAHM navigating Kita and other parents… it’s a lot. Expect to start at the bottom, unless your partner has really fancy credentials, and even then expect to start several rungs Lower compared to the US

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

Thanks for the explanation. No I don't have kids. But yeah, starting from the bottom sounds dreading

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lluluna@reddit

If you've had a pretty good life in your home country and moved to a new one, EXPECT and BE MENTALLY PREPARED for a dip in everything before you can feel good about your life again, especially after the honeymoon phase.

No one can tell you if it's worth it because this depends entirely on your goals in life, your personality, your personal circumstances and even some luck.

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invisiblegreene@reddit

Can you travel back and forth more regularly? With the language barrier I think Germany would be a very tough adjustment for you, and finding community takes a lot of time and investment.

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Deval_Dragon@reddit

How’s your German?

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DukeTanne@reddit

Caring for parents is important. But even if you don’t one may still feel helpless and frustrated from a distance. One way or another, there’s always a cost. I’m being direct.

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hyterus@reddit

Watch this YouTube video

https://youtu.be/4WoHfXx58po

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PopNo5397@reddit (OP)

Thanks, let me watch it

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freedomisgreat4@reddit

The USA has the following recent changes: epa stripped, osha stripped, legal system w judges who don’t enforce the constitution, no real reporting of the news etc. I’d strongly suggest Germany.

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Fondacey@reddit

Do you think it's worth it?

How much is it worth to your partner to be closer to aging parents? If the financial trade off means you come out a bit behind if you don't is that an answer that your partner agrees is most important for both of you?

I cannot presume to know the dynamic between you and your partner. But if it's a financial decision first and a family decision a distant second, then I would not move since there is always a significant cost to move abroad, adding the currency fluctuation risk, it would not make sense to move.

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RidetheSchlange@reddit

How will you get a visa?

" I think I could find a lot of friends in the Turkish community since they seem to be closer to the Latino culture."

Jesus fucking christ. This is wild on so many grounds, from the assumptive one to the holy shit one to the Latino thing. This is peak America. You want a lesson on Turkish culture in Germany? Look up "The Grey Wolves" or "Bozkurts" because that is what influences Turkish culture in Germany, along with Erdogan's take on Islamic conservativism and militancy.