Should we allow neighbours to add new driveway going on to our drive?

Posted by ASarcasticEngineer@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 68 comments

So we have a bit of an odd situation.

Our property is one of four fed by a private driveway. There's a set of garages on the drive with one garage per house. Then our own private driveway breaks off which is where we park.

We own the driveway outright and the neighbours have rights of access to get their car into the garage and then foot access to the rear of each of their properties. Meaning each neighbour can park only one car in their garage.

Due to the way the land was divided up over the years only one neighbour is obliged to pay "a fair proportion of upkeep" towards the shared part of the drive. Which means we pay 3/4 and they pay 1/4.

That same neighbour wants to tear down the boundary between their back garden and our driveway so that they can put their own private driveway in for 2-3 cars which would go onto the "shared" part of our driveway.

They've asked for permission and I offered agreement in return for splitting maintenance on the shared part 50/50 going forward. My reasoning being the other two neighbours can't physically expand beyond their current one car access. Whereas I and the neighbour wanting the drive would have access with 3-4 cars each.

I think this is reasonable but they're quite upset by the idea.

What would you do? And am I being unreasonable or overly generous with my offer?

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ASarcasticEngineer@reddit (OP)

This is the rough layout.

I own the "shared" drive outright and do not allow parking on it. I am responsible for maintaining it, however and whenever I see fit.

Each neighbour has an easement in place to allow them access but neighbours 3 and 4 access their properties by a private footpath so could never propose the same arrangement as neighbour 1.

It's not to scale but if neighbour 1 decided to pave their entire back garden they could probably fit 3 cars length ways and maybe four width ways.

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mrbill1234@reddit

Do they need any permission at all? I presume they own the wall they need to knock down for access and they'd still be sharing the drive the same way.

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ASarcasticEngineer@reddit (OP)

The wall is shared so they need permission to remove it.

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mrbullettuk@reddit

I dont understand why they need to knock down the wall from your diagram.

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ASarcasticEngineer@reddit (OP)

They only have foot access to their garden at the moment.

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Rob_bob91@reddit

How was the 3/4 - 1/4 “fair proportion of upkeep”established in the first place? 50/50 sounds reasonable to me but I guess your neighbour’s argument would be that they are not getting any extra benefit from the shared portion of the driveway so why should they pay any more for it’s upkeep?

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ASarcasticEngineer@reddit (OP)

So the land all four properties are built on was bought by a builder in the 50's. He built each of the four houses consecutively and sold them off as he completed them

Unfortunately the first two he sold didn't have any maintenance clauses in the easement.

The third one he built they added a "Fair proportion of maintenance" clause which the neighbour (quite fairly) interprets as each property pays 1/4. This leaves me picking up each of the other neighbours 1/4 unless they choose to contribute.

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Rob_bob91@reddit

In that case I think 50/50 is perfectly reasonable to request - indeed, I would say it should always have been 50/50

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mrbill1234@reddit

Aha - the infamous party wall act!

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Randomfinn@reddit

So the shared driveway will have more traffic, that sucks for you and the other two users of the private drive. There is no benefit to you so I would decline any further offers from the neighbour.

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GetNooted@reddit

How much does upkeep of the shared part actually cost?

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ASarcasticEngineer@reddit (OP)

Not a great deal really it's all block paved so an occasional jet wash and resand.

At some point it will need to be resurfaced though.

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Altruistic_Cress_700@reddit

Your proposal is totally reasonable.

The only thing is that YOU retain ownership, so maybe it should be something like 55,45 to reflect that they are, essentially, maintaining the value of an asset that's yours.

But much more than that, I'd say no, because you and they will, in principal, give equal wear and tear.

However I DO think you need a specialist lawyer involved because there need to be special clauses for damage beyond normal wear and tear (e.g if a removal van comes in and destroys the tarmac). That should be paid for by the house responsible.

So there are plenty of details also needed.

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fussyfella@reddit

Sounds like you are blackmailing them to me.

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Chunkweena@reddit

I think you mean extortion, not blackmail, but regardless he isn't doing anything of the sort.

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audigex@reddit

Your offer seems fair to me - half the maintenance for a comparable amount of usage to you

You own the drive, you don’t want the change

They do want the change, therefore it’s up to them to facilitate it

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GlitchingGecko@reddit

Sounds reasonable in theory, but I wouldn't do ANYTHING without consulting a lawyer.

These things can get messy.

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CaptMelonfish@reddit

This. Get it all in writing and legal.

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pakcross@reddit

Also, if you go ahead with it get a decent land surveyor to make a decent plan of the properties.

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BillWilberforce@reddit

If they don't want to pay the maintenance now. Guess what they'll be like when it's time to put their hand in their pocket. Not to mention if they sell the housea and the new neighbour doesn't agree to it.

Personally, I'd also have an agreement on when the current dirce would need repairs or replacement, one small pothole is ok but not 2..... As well as an agreement about how to find a repairer/installer and in what time frame. So that it doesn't get dragged out for 20 years. As the other neighbour says that it's fine, then says that it isn't fine but says that every quote is extortionate. Followed by maybe after Christmas/Easter/the Summer.

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fussyfella@reddit

It's not whether they want to pay the maintenance now, their agreement says they pay 1/4.

The most important part though, is to understand the state of agreement, and as you rightly say that means speaking to a lawyer.

This is why so often properties in the UK (and for once that does include Scotland) can be tough to sell when access rights rely on other people's say so.

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Icy_Attention3413@reddit

You’ve made a fair offer and they admitted to it rejected it. That is now the end of the matter, particularly since they aim to enrich themselves at your expense.

If you do proceed, then make sure you use a lawyer and they pay the bill for it. I would suggest they also have to pay an amount every year that goes into a pot for when the driveway needs resurfacing.

You also need to make sure that the builder, if there ever is one, does exactly what is permitted nothing more.

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ASarcasticEngineer@reddit (OP)

You have a good point.

I hadn't considered that once they have access they can expand it to whatever they want.

At current they can get a medium car into the garage.

Once the drive is in and access established they could extend it to drive a tank up the drive if they so wished!

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fernofry@reddit

I think you need a contract drawn up personally. This is going to impact the lifetime of the property. If they don't agree, it's your right to refuse.

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squirellputkin@reddit

Something to be mindful is if access to undertake this work is across the driveway ensuring any damage caused (or increase in wear) is factored in. Sounds like major work with skips Lorrie’s etc which is well above a vehicle and pedestrians going across it.

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ASarcasticEngineer@reddit (OP)

This is a good point, I'll add this to the terms!

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Too-Late-For-A-Name@reddit

This could affect you own property resale and value, personally I avoid any property with a shared driveway or right of passage.

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GrownDandilion@reddit

Your offer seems fair but you also own the drive outright i would have maybe countered with a 70/30 split as it remains your drive or offered to buy half the drive from you and agreed to a 50/50 maintenance cost on going. However as things stand seems like you wont get what you want so might be easier to leave things as they are.

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ASarcasticEngineer@reddit (OP)

I think this is their stance.

Both that it's not their land and that they don't want to pay for the wear the other two neighbours add to the shared access by parking in their garages.

But from my perspective owning the land is of no real benefit as I can't do anything with it other than maintain it as an access road. The only marginal benefit is that only I decide when and if to do maintenance.

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GrownDandilion@reddit

Then definitely leave things as they are. To do anything else is going to upset the status quo and end in a head ache. Out of intrest though is there nothing that can be done to force the issue with the other neighbours to get them to pay for the access ?

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ASarcasticEngineer@reddit (OP)

Unfortunately not.

The land was bought by a builder in the 50's who built each of the four houses. Unfortunately when he sold the first two he didn't consider the maintenance of the shared part of the drive.

We could ask them nicely but they've no obligation to contribute.

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GrownDandilion@reddit

That sucks sorry about that

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FornyHucker22@reddit

Sounds like the new deal is they pay 60% and you pay 40% for the audacity of refusing such a fair offer.

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yes1402@reddit

New deal, you pay for 100 percent maintenance. Deal or no deal 🤝😉

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Scuba_Ted@reddit

I’m struggling to understand I’m sorry, can you put a diagram on the post?

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HeartbreakRemission@reddit

They’ve added a diagram to one of their comments now 🥰

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Chicken_shish@reddit

You've made a generous offer which they've turned down.

My next offer would be "no".

Going from 1 parking space to 3 will have a material impact on their house value.

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Winston_Carbuncle@reddit

Going from 1 parking space to 3 will have a material impact on their house value.

Why would that, in isolation, be a reason to reject this proposal?

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mattcannon2@reddit

The second one - trying to have their cake and eat it too

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Greatgrowler@reddit

If they are upset by your terms then I think you know the answer. The pair of you will be getting equal benefit of your driveway so I think if the shared upkeep is your only condition then they should accept it. Perhaps you may be able to give them specific permission so that it doesn’t create an easement and then if they didn’t contribute you could restrict access. I think r/legaluk may be a better place to ask this.

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Esexboy101101@reddit

In addition to the previous comments it sounds to me that you will be leaving yourself open to possible increase in maintenence/repair costs due to increased 'traffic'.

Speak to a Solicitor. Ask the neighbour for the contact details for their Solicitor.

... Or even better say NO and end the dialogue.

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D0wnb0at@reddit

Feels fair to me. If they wanna use it, they have to help maintain it. In theory it’s your land, and you could put a gate up just after the garages to stop anyone driving further than the garages.

What’s the maintenance payments look like tho? Is it just like weeding and upkeep or what?

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rynchenzo@reddit

You are being generous by even considering it. If they won't split the costs of maintenance then it'll be a no from me.

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Dapper-Lab-9285@reddit

Be very careful with boundaries. If they build a driveway on your property it will be a nightmare for you if you ever want to sell.

Either sell them a strip of land for their driveway, with them covering your solicitors fees, and the 50/50 on maintenance if they won't agree then say no.

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19Pip87@reddit

Personally I’d just say no now. You’ve been more than reasonable and generous and they are being arsey about it and nothing has even been done yet!

Plus, if I understand correctly at present you have each neighbour having a garage so a maximum of 4 cars. They are all parked away in their garages so you aren’t directly looking at the neighbours cars which is nice for curb appeal for all of you as well as having an ease of access in terms of being able to get cars in and out of the shared drive.

If you allow this to go ahead then potentially you are going to have your two neighbours cars in their garages, but then with you and the neighbour go to having potentially 3/4 cars each therefore you’ve gone from 4 cars to potentially 10 all using a shared drive.

I can see why they want to increase their parking as it will increase their property value but on the same level for the two houses that can’t expand then I don’t feel it’s fair to them.

So yeah, I’d tell em to do one.

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Milam1996@reddit

I wouldn’t have offered anything in the first place but the fact they’ve refused I’d now absolutely refuse anything in the future. What a set of greedy twats.

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petiweb5@reddit

What maintenance fee are we talking about?

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scorzon@reddit

Next offer is "they can have what they want but this time they pay 3/4 and you pay 1/4 upkeep" and make it clear one more refusal from them and negotiations are over and their plan doesn't happen.

They sound like entitled knobheads.

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SkengmanFy@reddit

Honestly, after their initial bad reaction, I'd give them absolutely nothing.

Keeping things as they are now is a headache for them, not you. Changing things could end up a giant headache for you, while adding nothing of value to you.

You gave them an incredibly generous offer and they weren't even remotely grateful. Once you let them do this, I wouldnt be surprised if the nobheaddery from them continues/escalates.

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OrganicPoet1823@reddit

Very reasonable, I would suggest you need a lawyer for this and they pay all legal fees too

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Vladamir_pootinn@reddit

Give em an inch and they’ll take a mile…

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BronnOP@reddit

Your request sounds perfectly reasonable and honestly sounds like he’s getting the better deal if anything.

What he gets *may* increase property prices or at the very least help it sell faster.

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JonMMM70@reddit

Define talk to a lawyer see how it impacts when you come to sell

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kapeman_@reddit

Or if they sell and the new owners don't know/don't care about any prior agreements and abuse the setup.

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OrangeOfRetreat@reddit

As others have said, a diagram would help. Anything relating to easements and land you need serious professional advice.

Anything involving land can have unintended consequences.

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Competitive_Test6697@reddit

I think it's getting into murky waters and id just say no and leave it at that. Especially if either sells in future.

They are already being difficult. Bet they'll change the plans and do something ridiculous part-way thru.

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WeDoingThisAgainRWe@reddit

I’d wonder or worry that any builder queries about what can be done where turn into, yeah do it there my neighbour is fine with stuff wherever. Including OP’s own land.

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NoodleDoodlesocks@reddit

Sounds more than reasonable. If they agree to it, make sure the agreement is in writing.

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Confudled_Contractor@reddit

No, they have to Right of Access and this will create one.

This requires an Easement to be added to your/their deeds.

I’d be asking for more than the upkeep plus legal fees for redrafting the docs.

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