Is there any pistols that have a fixed barrel and use the chamber as the short recoil mechanism?
Posted by Darth_Klaus501@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 26 comments
Its hard to explain the principle, but the idea is in a browning tilting action, the barrel is the short recoil mechanism. But what if you used the chamber itself as the action. Or around the chamber. And I am not talking about roller delayed, but that is a similar concept. What I am talking about is more akin to radial delay, but in a pistol. A pistol that might fit the bill is the Remington R51. I am not fully aware of why the gun was truly unreliable. Was the design bad? Or was it just very poor quality control or trying to simply make it too cheaply. It used what's called a hesitation-locked action. Remington used it before a long time ago. And before you say who cares? Tilting actions work just fine. I know, but I love fixed barrel 9mm pistols. They're just so cool and they circumvent some issues that tilting barrel guns have like adding compensators, suppressors, etc. And what's nice about this design is that its mechanical and not gas operated like many fixed barrel 9mm pistols. If I am not explaining myself well, let me know. Thank you for your time and I look forward to y'alls responses.
HCompton79@reddit
Part of what you're describing would be the floating chamber actuation method developed by David Marshall Williams, used in the Colt Ace pistol and some shotguns like the Winchester 50 and 58
Clapbakatyerblakcat@reddit
The Desert Eagle is a pistol shaped AR 18.
Darth_Klaus501@reddit (OP)
yep, it basically is. I am just trying to avoid a gas system or gas delated design. The desert eagle pretty much is a handheld rifle. It has a full rotating bolt and everything.
Clapbakatyerblakcat@reddit
HK P9S
Clapbakatyerblakcat@reddit
Delete the gas tube and swap the AR style bolt with the CMMG Radial Delayed blowback?
sadoproject@reddit
Several guns have non-Browning style delay. The Luger had a linkage type delay on a fixed barrel. Things like the Smith and Wesson M&P 5.7 (a personal favorite) and the Beretta PX4 use a radial/rotational delay on non-tilting barrels.
You are correct in that it does negate the need for a Nielsen device/piston/booster for suppression.
KaijuTia@reddit
The luger’s barrel isn’t fixed, though. It recoils ever so slightly before the toggle’s knee joint breaks upward.
sadoproject@reddit
Yes I know, I had one. It seems OP is more interested in non-tilting than he is properly fixed, so it's worth a mention.
Darth_Klaus501@reddit (OP)
I prefer fixed as well. Its in the title
rextrem@reddit
Something that I haven't understood for a long time is that recoil operation is basically barrel weight delayed blowback.
Of course it's not blowback as the bolt is locked into something, yet everything starts moving as soon the cartridge is fired (unlike gas operation where the bullet needs to reach the gas block).
Now locking the bolt into the chamber leads to a huge issue : mass, there's no way a moving chamber (incased at the base of the barrel) will be heavy enough to create a good delaying.
The only gun of my knowing that has a moving chamber is the russian PSS, and it's for extraction purposes.
GodHatesColdplay@reddit
Not pistols, but Winchester model 50 and 58 shotguns are short-recoil actions with chambers that move and are separate from the barrel. Very curious design
Darth_Klaus501@reddit (OP)
that does sound interesting. Its amazing how many things have been tried in gun design and have been forgotten or put aside for one reason or another.
Cowpuncher84@reddit
Look at a Benelli B76 series. They have a fixed barrel and a inertia lock.
Darth_Klaus501@reddit (OP)
That might fit the bill. I have heard of those and have a hard time understanding how they work. I know Ian described it as almost magical
Cowpuncher84@reddit
I have one and taking it apart and looking at it you wouldn't think it works but it does. Feels like a full size pistol that shoots .32acp's.
rextrem@reddit
The recoil the gun experiences when the bullet flies away (pressure force and departure momentum) are sufficient to move the slide (lighter than the whole gun, lower inertia), which unlocks the inner bolt (tilting lug), allowing for the full travel of both slide and bolt.
The difference with the Pedersen Remington pistol is that it has a free space ahead of the bolt loking, which allows uponf firing for the bolt and slide to bolster inertia, the bolt stops on its locking, the slide keeps going backwards, unlocks the bolt which enables complete cycling.
redly@reddit
Colr Ace 22 conversion for .45 ACP
https://youtu.be/ik_7pOgH3kE?si=M3c0M0BR6o1NG_Rm&t=264
Darth_Klaus501@reddit (OP)
Is hesitation-lock short recoil or delayed blowback? Because it seems to function like short recoil and have a locked breech which is different than delayed blowback which simply delays blowback in some form and is generally a good bit dirtier as well. The breechblock seems to supplant the barrel as the short recoil interface to the slide.
GamesFranco2819@reddit
Maybe the Steyr GB
Darth_Klaus501@reddit (OP)
I have one, its gas delayed
GamesFranco2819@reddit
Got too focused on fixed barrel, didnt see your other requirements. Sorry about that
Darth_Klaus501@reddit (OP)
its okay
Edwardteech@reddit
Berreta m9?
Darth_Klaus501@reddit (OP)
No, the barrel is not fixed. But it does not tilt. It goes straight back a little bit and its breechblock operated. Its still a form of conventional short recoil.
Conserp@reddit
PSS silenced pistol uses such a system
AutoModerator@reddit
Understand the rules
Check the sidebar. It's full of resources to help you.
Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate.
No Spam. No Memes.
No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.