Como se debe frenar un carro estándar?
Posted by Inercial1@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 123 comments
Hace poco mi novia me dijo que estaba frenando mal mi camioneta.
Lo que yo hago es:
- Clutch
- Frenar
Pero mi novia me dice que eso esta mal, que en todos lados enseñan que se debe frenar:
- Presionar un poco el freno
- Meter clutch
- Frenar
Me enseño muchos vídeos donde enseñan lo mismo pero se me hace raro e innecesario presionar el freno al principio. En alguno de esos vídeos comentan que es para evitar dañar el motor.
Que opinan ustedes?
HenryLoggins@reddit
Break then clutch when needed, allowing you to use engine braking, putting less wear ant tear on your brake pads and rotors. Down shifting to slow down also.
Euphoric_Local3265@reddit
This is poor advice I see on this sub. Downshifting to slow your car shifts wear from the pads and rotors (cheap and easy to replace) to the clutch and gearbox (not cheap or easy to replace). Mountain grades are an entirely different story.
Max_Downforce@reddit
If done properly, downshifting has a negligible effect on the clutch. The torque going through the gearbox, when engine braking, is equal to slight acceleration going forwards. Practically no wear at all.
Euphoric_Local3265@reddit
I’m sure you can do it with minimal wear but it takes skill and you’re still actuating your clutch unnecessarily (in my opinion). I just dont really understand the logic of transferring wear from your brakes to your drivetrain. A brake job is literally $50 if you do it yourself. I have a friend who is so nuts about saving his brakes that he parks his car in gear and doesn’t set the parking brake to save the wear. First time he let me drive it I got in, pressed the clutch to crank the engine up and the car started rolling away!!! I almost hit the car in front of me. I think it’s better to just use your frigging brakes.
Max_Downforce@reddit
Yeah, it takes skill. First of all, find me rotor for one of my cars for $50. Not chinesium or some off brand. 2nd, it's not about saving money on brakes. It's about always being in gear. It's just proper driving technique. Having said that, engine braking saves fuel. Both my cars use 91 minimum and are thirsty. Lastly, most of the clutch wear occurs when starting to drive from a standstill.
Euphoric_Local3265@reddit
Not sure what you drive but $100 for a set of rotors will get you a pretty nice pair on a normal vehicle.
Max_Downforce@reddit
2010 Sti and '04 M3.
OperationAsshat@reddit
If downshifting wears your clutch and gearbox anything more than a negligible amount then you need to fix your clutch usage. Engine braking is normal as is downshifting to continue engine braking. It does not wear anything unless you are doing it poorly.
Euphoric_Local3265@reddit
Sure but what is the point
CameronsTheName@reddit
My car has 500,000 on the original clutch and I use engine braking to downshift all the time. I only replaced my original brake pads at about 420k.
action_max@reddit
Your original brake pads lasted 420k miles? What car are you driving?
CameronsTheName@reddit
1.9TDI Volkswagen Polo.
I only touch my brakes about 10 times during my drive. The rest is letting the car slow down via air resistance and engine braking as much as possible.
action_max@reddit
That's incredible, well done... great engine in that car too. I had an Audi A6 with the PD130 engine and sold it with over 250k miles on the clock.
Own-Oil-7548@reddit
Been engine breaking all my life ,just on 50 years of driving. I usually have a car for a few years , longest was 12 years with an Audi A4 but I've never had clutch / gearbox trouble using said method
Ok-Huckleberry1970@reddit
Brakes and rotors are cheaper than gas so avoid using engine to brake
Javi_DR1@reddit
What? Engine braking doesn't use gas. It only uses the internal friction of the engine/transmision.
pockets3d@reddit
It's compressing air that is making the resistance.
Javi_DR1@reddit
Isn't that a jake brake? Like, that's the real definition of engine brake, but when non truckers say it they usually mean engine friction braking.
Or am I misunderstanding something? (not main language)
Ok-Huckleberry1970@reddit
Jake brakes do cut fuel completely. On gas engines fuel is still being consumed. Othetwise gas cars would be silent going down hill while engine braking
Only_Information7895@reddit
They go silent, just that sucking in air at 3000 RPM and valves banging isn't exactly quiet.
Did you stood next to a big electric compressor? It doesn't use any gas (as it is electric), but you need ear protection for the bigger ones as they are anything but quiet. Engines have more silencing, but still loud.
Ok-Huckleberry1970@reddit
There is definitely a sound difference between a cylinder combusting vs one that is just pumping air
Only_Information7895@reddit
Yeas there is a noise difference. Go downhill (or even on a flat roads, with decent speed so it doesn't drop the RPM too fast) and let off the gas. It makes a wrrrr noise. Now step on it. Now it makes a BRRRR noise while basically at the same RPM.
Ok-Huckleberry1970@reddit
I have a slightly newer and slightly older vehicle one makes a fuel crackling noise when going down hill thus using fuel and the other one doesnt which is the newer vehicle
Only_Information7895@reddit
Well the older one (not sure how old) but if carbureted then it obviously doesn't have this feature. If mechanically injected or really old (like before 2000 old) then it also might not have that feature.
Most modern cars, even budget cars which people usually drive have that feature, just like your newer car.
Ok-Huckleberry1970@reddit
Its an 08 escalade and it does that. But anyways op never mentioned vehicle age lol
reddits_in_hidden@reddit
Thats not just a little, but damn near entirely incorrect lol not only do modern cars also cut fuel, but increased rpm of the engine regardless of fuel or not, the rotating components make noise, the transmission makes noise, FRICTION makes noise. The only scenario in which the car wouldnt cut fuel entirely is with mechanical injection like older diesels and carbureted cars
Jakomako@reddit
With normal engine braking, the valves operate as per usual. (Suck:intake open Squeeze: valves closed. Bang: valves closed. Blow:exhaust open.) so, for for the first and last two strokes, you’re just letting the air flow and for the middle two, you’re compressing the air and then allowing it to push the cylinder back down. You’re turning a lot of energy into heat with that one compression stroke and not getting much of it back on the decompression stroke.
With Jake brakes, the valves are closed on compression, then they open at top dead center, releasing the hot compressed air instead of allowing it to push the cylinder back down.
So both methods reduce speed by compressing air, but Jake brakes just get a lot more advantage out of it.
DFLDrew@reddit
Close enough. It’s the friction of sucking through an almost entirely closed throttle.
Fuzzy_Yossarian@reddit
I engine braked for years. I wore out my clutch before my brakes. Brakes are cheaper to wear out so engine braking doesn't save me money.
Max_Downforce@reddit
If that's the case, then you're not using your clutch properly.
Javi_DR1@reddit
How? Did you use the clutch as brake? I usually do it because it's smoother but I don't think I'm wearing the clutch more than it would otherwise. I do try to revmatch as good as I can, and not let the engine drop to idle and then release clutch
1995LexusLS400@reddit
Engine braking doesn’t use fuel at all.
SpringNo1275@reddit
RPMs are key. If the revs are up, so is fuel consumption
Crowlady77@reddit
If you’re putting fuel in the engine it’s not braking
FullofLovingSpite@reddit
What's the difference between that and a Jake brake?
I drive a stick, so I'm curious about this stuff. I never thought past using the engine so I could lay off the brakes.
Crowlady77@reddit
It’s the same concept, you’re just using an engine that can also output power.
FullofLovingSpite@reddit
So is fuel flowing at all? I think that's the part I'm confused about.
Crowlady77@reddit
Why would you be injecting fuel if you actually do not want a combustion?
FullofLovingSpite@reddit
Well, I wouldn't be doing anything but removing my foot from the gas. Even though I've never built an engine, I know it will be turning. My question about the Jake brakes alluded to my confusion, because when I do it there is no fucking sound from the fucking engine as it fires fucking air.
Jackass.
Crowlady77@reddit
Because your foot is not actually on the "gas" it's on the throttle, which controls air, and in regular engine braking you're not actually pumping much air into the engine. So both the expansion and compression strokes slow the vehicle but not to the same extent as the compression stroke of a diesel brake. (of course modern cars have electronic throttle and your foot doesn't directly control it but same idea).
Sea-Foundation-449@reddit
Engine braking consumes exactly zero fuel. The drivetrain is effectively reversed, and the wheels’ momentum turn the engine
SpringNo1275@reddit
If the engine is running then it is consuming fuel. The higher the revs the higher the consumption. And nothing is reversed if you're still moving forward. And even if it were reversed it's still consuming fuel because it's still running
agingcausescancer@reddit
The engine isn’t running if the car is living and you take your foot off the gas. Gas is completely cut off in the engine breaking situation.
Sea-Foundation-449@reddit
*and the car is in gear
agingcausescancer@reddit
Yes. The idea that putting into neutral saves gas is wrong for that reason.
Sea-Foundation-449@reddit
If the fuel injectors aren’t spraying any fuel, what is the mechanism by which you think the engine is consuming fuel?
RunninOnMT@reddit
You’re thinking of idling. Not engine braking. If you were burning fuel, the engine would want to spin faster not slower.
Outside-Reference277@reddit
Tell me you know nothing about ICE, without telling me you know nothing about ICE.
Boostie204@reddit
Why are you guys just straight up so incorrect
fertile_gnome@reddit
No.
You have forgotten the throttle body and the air mass. A decelerating engine with the throttle closed is pulling a tiny mass of air into each cylinder even at ten thousand rpm because the only air that can get in is coming through the idle circuit. The fuel used is always going to be proportional to the air mass. If very little air is coming in, then very little fuel is being mixed with it.
afraidofthe-dark@reddit
That’s not true, the tires are spinning the engine when downshifting, not combustion
djsimp123@reddit
Blipping uses gas but very little
1995LexusLS400@reddit
Injectors get switched off when you’re not on the gas pedal. If you’re on the gas pedal, you’re not engine braking.
Ok-Huckleberry1970@reddit
At all? Zero fuel?
1995LexusLS400@reddit
If it’s electronic fuel injection, yes.
OperationAsshat@reddit
You use more fuel in neutral keeping the motor idling than you do under engine braking. ECU stops sending fuel in those conditions, where it has to send fuel to keep it idling. It's a common misconception from when carbs were more standard, but one that needs to stop gettino spread around by people who don't know any better.
reddits_in_hidden@reddit
On modern electronic injection, that is correct! The vehicle can tell when youre engine braking and will cut off the injectors during it. Now on OLDER mechanical fuel delivery like mechanical injection diesels and carbureted stuff, yes it still burns fuel, buuuuut its semi dependent on your throttle position, if your foots off the throttle then then itll only really draw as much fuel as it would as if it were just idling
Few-Education-5613@reddit
Lmao this guy has a worse education than me
agingcausescancer@reddit
Engine braking doesn’t use fuel at all
Few-Education-5613@reddit
No shit
Ok-Huckleberry1970@reddit
I stand corrected modern cars do offer a deceleration fuel cut off programming. I stand corrected.
Kseries2497@reddit
Almost any fuel injected engine will cut the fuel off when engine is above idle speed with the throttle closed. If you push the clutch in, it will use however much gas it uses to idle.
fertile_gnome@reddit
You fundamentally misunderstand how internal combustion engines work when the throttle plate is closed. Even with an old school carburetor, a decelerating motor with the throttle closed uses maybe a tiny bit more gas than an engine at idle. With fuel injection, even less.
Crowlady77@reddit
How…do you think engine braking works?
LameBMX@reddit
the engine doesn't use fuel to brake. it will squirt less juice since it wont need as much fuel as it does to idle since the vehicle is spinning the engine. at idle it requires combustion to keep the engine spinning.
rudbri93@reddit
They typically turn off the fuel injectors when engine braking
manny-calavera69@reddit
Hay 4 formas de frenar: - Usando la caja de cambios. - Las pastillas y discos de freno. - El freno de mano. - El muro.
En ese orden.
hoeseateggs@reddit
Why would you press the utch first before breaking? That's literally dangerous and doesn't make any sense in any way. Pls change your behavior before you kill someone.
Own-Oil-7548@reddit
I use my gears and engine braking in conjunction with gentle on/off with the brake pedal
jibaro1953@reddit
Enhine braking is needed on hills to keep the brake fluid from boiling.
Excessive downshifting when approaching a stop sign will increase wear and tear on your drive train.
By all means step on the brakes to slow down before pushing in the clutch.
If you're in third gear, you can keep the clutch engaged until you get quite close. You will have done engine braking for sure, but gently
nopester24@reddit
Only press the clutch if you're coming to a complete stop or shifting gears.
A quick tap on the brakes doesn't need the clutch at all
When you're stopping.l, you can brake first and then downshift accordingly. But clutching first before you brake is fine too.
But putting it in neutral and coasting to a stop is never acceptable
Sketch2029@reddit
Putting it in neutral and coasting to a stop is fine. It's a little less fuel efficient, but that's not exactly the end of the world.
Everything else you said is 100% correct though.
Pizza-Pirate-6829@reddit
I scrolled way too far to find this. I thought this was the standard way to drive a manual unless you are on ice or extreme conditions Manual driver for 18 years here.
NoChef7826@reddit
Depends on what I'm slowing down for, and what I'm going to do next, each situation is different.
South_Ad_2109@reddit
Your girlfriend told you how to brake your truck.
frenchsquared@reddit
Everyone use to say usw clutch to prolong brakes. Brake pads are $35. A clutch is $1500. Use clutch when needed with trailer or down hills but around town use brakes.
It’s your truck. Neither is wrong just decide where you want to spend money. Im happy to do my own pads every few years and get 350k out of a clutch.
HenryLoggins@reddit
You’re not using the clutch as a brake pad, you’re using the engine breaking to slow the vehicle.
frenchsquared@reddit
Yep… no wear at all. Lol. Your money, do as wish.
OperationAsshat@reddit
I've never had to replace a clutch due to wear despite doing this for decades on the same car. When I did replace the clutch it was because I already had the motor out for a teardown and it cost a whopping $110 to add to the order.
Actually hilarious because the stock clutch was just fine. If you are having issues with a clutch it's way more likely to be a driver issue.
Euphoric_Local3265@reddit
You’re using and wearing your clutch every time you downshift while engine braking.
OperationAsshat@reddit
Then you are doing it wrong. Clutch wear is a non-issue and engine braking doesn't make any negligible difference if you are shifting properly.
If you are coinstantly over-reving and riding the clutch, sure, but nobody driving properly is making any real difference in the lifespan of the clutch by downshifting. The entire point is to match gearbox and motor speeds, which means the clutch gets less wear than you ever see getting moving.
BuddyBoombox@reddit
You are even saving a little bit of gas since modern ECUs cut the injectors during engine braking conditions.
GreenHairyMartian@reddit
The clutch doesn't wear when you have it engaged.
Sure, the throw out bearing might wear a little, but really, those rarely go before the clutch wears out.
Xur_C@reddit
Clutch does not wear from hitting the brakes first, wear only occurs while the clutch is engaging/disengaging.
Ok-Huckleberry1970@reddit
Yo por lo personal freno y pongo el carro en neutral. Si ocupo meter cambio pues lo meto
Inercial1@reddit (OP)
Es mismo hago yo. No es que deje el clutch puesto, solo pongo neutral y precioso el freno asta la velocidad que necesite.
VeryStableGenius66@reddit
Keep it in gear until you reach your desired speed, then shift into the appropriate gear when you're ready to accelerate again. As long as the car is moving and you're not on the accelerator, you'll be fine, and maintain better control of the car.
StrikeTall4136@reddit
From a user manual perspective you should not use the engine to brake. This verbiage is to protect your engine from people who will decelerate from 100mph by throwing it in 1st and dumping the clutch.
If you are a reasonably competent driver there’s no reason why you couldn’t decelerate with engine braking or even engine brake and brakes.
Your gf is textbook correct.
VeryStableGenius66@reddit
Engine braking doesn't mean you're downshifting to stop. You just leave the car in whatever hear it's in until you're at a near stop.
VeryStableGenius66@reddit
You leave the car in the gear you're in and press the brake pedal. As long as the car is moving, it will not stall, and you get the benefit of engine braking. Right before you come to a stop is when you press the clutch pedal and put it in neutral (assuming you're at a red light.) If it's a stop sign you can just leave the clutch pressed in and put the car into first gear when you come to a stop.
Don't downshift to stop as that's a great way to burn through clutches. Don't put it in neutral while you're braking either because it burns gas as opposed to engine braking, which uses no fuel.
Crewstage8387@reddit
How long have you driven a manual and how long has she driven a manual
TraumaBondage@reddit
If I'm coming to a stop, I shift to neutral. Otherwise, I try to stay in the gear that will keep me going.
Ok_Two_2604@reddit
My friend builds and repairs a lot of local race cars. He says brakes are cheaper than transmissions. He is clutch then brake guy when he races.
Street? Doesn’t matter. Like the feel of braking with the motor still connected and will heel toe when not in traffic, but just bc I like it. I’ve never actually seen throw out bearings ruined by people using the clutch while braking. As far as I’m concerned, that and also holding the clutch at stops ruining throw outs is an old wives’ tale.
Hersbird@reddit
I wait to clutch until rpm drops to 1000 or less.
Max_Downforce@reddit
Brake until you need to downshift. Learn heel and toe, to be able to downshift and brake simultaneously. In an emergency brake situation, brake as hard as possible and depress the clutch pedal.
amibeingtrolled@reddit
Decelerate in your current gear with engine braking. When you get down to 1k rpm press the clutch and brake at the same time to stop. You can brake earlier it you need to stop quicker. It saves the brakes, clutch, and fuel.
Wassup4836@reddit
Sounds like she’s trying to start an argument over absolutely nothing.
Lawjik3737@reddit
Depends I usually engine brake, then use the brake, then clutch to neutral when I'm about to come to a complete stop. I usually always want to be in gear as long as possible incase I get hit, the car stall and won't roll since its still in gear or accelerate to avoid an accident. I see a lot of people go to neutral and coast a long distance before to a complete stop. To me is dangerous because you cannot accelerate quickly and if you get hit, you will keep rolling.
2wheelzrollin@reddit
Doesn't really matter
Samsonlp@reddit
Breaking first:
If something dangerous happens, you need to hit the brake the clutch does not stop the car.
Hitting the brake cuts fuel to the engine, so you protect the engine from going from load to no load.
Good habits to be in.
Bad habit, hitting the clutch in an emergency, panicking and not even having your foot on the brake yet the forgetting to brake because your animal mind is overwhelmed.
iamr3d88@reddit
Usually clutch, blip, downshift a gear or 2, clutch out, then ease onto the brake until revs get to around idle, then clutch in and continue to brake.
Works great if the light turns early too, since you are already in a lower gear and probably ready to take off again. Saves a bit of brake pad and gas letting the engine pull you down, and doesnt wear down the clutch if you get the blip right.
mancho98@reddit
Always break first
TheWhogg@reddit
Sometimes break first.
Evening-Tomatillo-47@reddit
Never break first, as that's what will happen if you don't brake
BuddyBoombox@reddit
Why?
Jakomako@reddit
When you’re not pushing the gas pedal and you’re in gear and you’re not using the clutch, you are using zero gas. If you push in the clutch, you start using fuel again just to keep the engine running at idle.
atkinsonda1@reddit
With the break
snipsuper415@reddit
Sounds like you're not engine breaking. If you're not engine breaking you're wasting more break pads than you need too.
You need to downshift to the proper gear to match the speed as you slow down. If you keep the clutch pushed in,it's like breaking in neutral. So if you ever get hit and get knocked out, your car will roll instead stop from the engine break.
icanfly2026@reddit
Depends on the car
TheWhogg@reddit
Her technique is correct for most stops. If you need to brake, you brake. Then worry about gears after the imminent danger of Epsteining yourself has passed. That’s they they teach it. Maybe also to disengage the cruise.
But yours is fine if there’s a reason for it. There are many times I would change gears before, or instead of, braking.
When I owned a manual, I would 99% brake 1% engine brake. I had ceramic pads that were 80% when I sold the car 13 years later. I would use a couple of gears to maintain minimum engine speed, minimising clutch wear. But there were still times I went with a downshift first for a longer coast.
No one is “wrong” if the car is being used sensitively.
bfjt4yt877rjrh4yry@reddit
Heel and toe while you do donuts in reverse and scream Taylor Swift songs at your rearview mirror.
This-Permission-2618@reddit
brakes take a small amount of time to replace completely. clutch is a whole mission.
ColinOnReddit@reddit
Shift to neutral, break. If it's not an old-as-hell truck with disk breaks.
Xur_C@reddit
They teach brake first because that’s what actually stops the car.
As far as the two options go though; it doesn’t matter both are fine for the vehicle.
twoheadedhorseman@reddit
Si el carro está frenando No hay manera incorrecta Al menos que el motor esté a punto de apagarse. Yo a veces freno si me voy a quedar en la misma velocidad y no cambio velocidades ni aprieto el clutch. Si voy a llegar a cero lo que hago es presionar el clutch y meter el carro a neutral después freno hasta parar. Supuestamente se debe mantener el carro en una velocidad por si los frenos dejan de funcionar pero no creo que es necesario
JosephPapparelli@reddit
I’m glad my girlfriend doesn’t have to show me how to drive my truck. :)
Inercial1@reddit (OP)
Okay, this made me laugh.
afraidofthe-dark@reddit
Brake, clutch. The engine won’t stall if the wheels are still turning. Clutch, Downshift, Brake, clutch is best
Cool-Negotiation7662@reddit
You are both right. Engine braking has a place. Clutches are expensive compared to brakes. Passenger comfort is important.
Gorillafeathers@reddit
You shouldn't engine break regularly. Your pads & rotors are the wear items. They're consumables meaning that they are meant to be replaced. Your engine doesn't need the extra strain every time you need to slow down. Now in performance driving or long downhill stretches, it's entirely appropiate to use the engine to brake. Also diesel trucks often include an engine brake setup. But for everyday normal driving, I was taught not to do that.
LameBMX@reddit
millions of miles in stick shift vehicles.. it makes no difference. it no where near the strain of accelerating. as a matter of fact, its less strain than idling the engine, as there is no explosion due to deceleration fuel cut off. compressing air is less harsh than compressing air and then blowing it up.
Watery_Octopus@reddit
As long as you slow down and stop and you don't lug or stall the car, it doesn't matter.
TapeDaddy@reddit
As long as you’re not stalling it doesn’t really matter.