UPS flight 2976 CVR Spectrogram Reconstruction
Posted by AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 183 comments
Posted by AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 183 comments
flying_wrenches@reddit
This footage is morally questionable and the post has been removed under our no gore rule.
Any reposts will be given a ban.
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Ok_Geologist_448@reddit
Those of you complaining about the CVR Audio being released or AI enhanced, Every crash and incident has something to learn from. It has nothing to do with likes and "clout". It allows us to hear and see what happened.
CMDR_Winrar@reddit
You won't learn anything from listening to this. It's just morbid curiosity. Morally wrong for everyone who has contributed to the effort of reconstructing and releasing this.
Ataneruo@reddit
Hard disagree.
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
There’s a reason the NTSB doesn’t release this. And OP recreating it was absolutely about clout. Now people get to listen to their friend’s final seconds because some sick individual decided to plaster it over the internet
railker@reddit
ICAO Annex on Accident Investigations, "States shall take measures to ensure that audio content of cockpit voice recordings as well as image and audio content of airborne image recordings are not disclosed to the public."
We have the transcripts and the investigation's analysis of the recordings to learn from as we need to.
InteractiveCream@reddit
Are you even a pilot?
blueb0g@reddit
It absolutely is about clout. As darkly interesting as CVR recordings are, there is no education benefit for the public over the release of transcripts and the analysis of Investigators who have heard the recordings.
onil34@reddit
transcripts are enough
Careful_Board_9673@reddit
Redditors and YouTubers are not teaching anyone shit lmao
Medo73@reddit
There’s a difference between having it available for pilot training or safety training and making it freely accessible online for everyone
Samurlough@reddit
Man I sure hope that if I ever die in a plane crash my last moments don’t become some hobbyist’s pet project to distribute an AI version of my voice fighting for my life on the internet for likes and engagement.
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
this is not AI.
There are ways to enhance it with AI but this is not AI.
disgusting comment but I understand the concern with this.
Samurlough@reddit
lol my comment was “disgusting” yet it was your post taken down by moderators.
ApprehensiveFactor98@reddit
You missed the point. The use of AI isn't the problem. It's what YOU did. Recreating this audio was disgusting. The fact that you did what you did but called this comment disgusting is mind blowing. You have no self awareness and no shame. Your behavior is disgusting.
atcthrowaway452@reddit
The NTSB are the ones who released the spectrogram, not OP. Your anger seems a little misplaced here.
ApprehensiveFactor98@reddit
The spectrogram isn't the big problem. It's the recreation and posting of the audio. I'm also mad at the NTSB, but they didn't do something disgusting. OP did.
andrew17798@reddit
Intentional on the NTSB’s part or not, they truly couldn’t figure out that ringing sound so they had to conduct a spectrum analysis study.
And as a result, this is now public information and people have the use of free will to reconstruct, regardless of your opinions.
Samurlough@reddit
AI or not, you’re attempting to recreate the voice of pilots fighting for their lives.
Coaster_crush@reddit
The older I get the more I hate hearing/ seeing the CVR data. I don’t want to hear people’s last words as they face their fate.
Samurlough@reddit
Agreed.
spezbot69@reddit
Same.
_ferko@reddit
No AI needed for this.
Samurlough@reddit
Not yet. But someone will based off this.
The idea remains the same.
ApprehensiveFactor98@reddit
I'm not sure this should be posted.
ddadopt@reddit
Username checks out.
Nothing bad comes from releasing this data to the public. This is shit we all learn from. In this instance, it's a fantastic lesson in professionalism and CRM, even with (in hindsight) absolutely no hope, they stayed focused and professional and flew the aircraft for as long as they could.
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
No way you’re a pilot. There’s nothing to be gained from this that can’t be gained from a transcript
ddadopt@reddit
I haven’t been in the air in over fifteen years but I am indeed a certificated pilot (ASEL). Not that that matters in any way for the purposes of this discussion.
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
I’m not sure how you could possibly think there’s anything to be gained from this audio versus a transcript
ddadopt@reddit
I'll repeat myself from further downthread: "Lessons written in blood always have more impact when humanized rather than sterilized."
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
Impact on who? The professionals in the industry who could have any potential benefit from this will get all of the information they need from a transcript. The only people who enjoy the shock value of the audio have nothing to learn from it.
ddadopt@reddit
You keep focusing on "shock value." I see professionals that follow their training to the end, even though the situation is hopeless; I see nothing "shocking" (and OP omitted the parts of the audio that would have been).
You're also focusing on people who have BTDT, who I agree will probably not learn much from this as they'd likely do the exact same in this situation. But we always have a next generation coming up, don't we? And those people can and should learn from incidents like this. And transcripts don't have the same gravity.
I understand that this will almost certainly be distressing for the families, friends, and colleagues of these pilots, but that doesn't mean there is no value to be found. I respect that you disagree with me here.
ApprehensiveFactor98@reddit
Which you can learn from the transcript. You gain nothing from hearing their voices.
ddadopt@reddit
Lessons written in blood always have more impact when humanized rather than sterilized.
ApprehensiveFactor98@reddit
And thats why the NTSB releases CVR audio, obviously. Also, there is NO lesson to learn here. You can appreciate the CRM. But you can learn NOTHING from this audio that you cant learn from a thousand transcripts OR CVR audio where the pilots didnt die.
Im not sure why you think ten seconds of good CRM in what was still a fatal crash is so valuable and can save lives one day. It cant.
But hey, Im sure youre right and every student pilot will have this played for them so they can learn CRM and they will all remember it as such a valuable lesson that saved their lives.
Silverwhite2@reddit
People become much more motivated to take action when they hear the fatal gunshots of the school shooter. Humans are not robots that work from abstracted facts. If you want a reaction, don’t hide painful things.
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
What action are you going to take after hearing this that the NTSB didn’t?
Imaginary-Spray3711@reddit
Just a minor correction, the NTSB does not release CVR audio recordings. They publish a transcript (sometimes edited) as past of the investigation record.
ApprehensiveFactor98@reddit
Yeah I was being sarcastic to demonstrate how ignorant the other guy was. They don't release the audio bc it's disrespectful and you can't learn anything that you didn't from the transcript.
Imaginary-Spray3711@reddit
Got it. Interestingly enough, most people are not aware of the fact the the owner of the aircraft legally owns the CVR recording, and its content. Air carriers don’t release CVR audio primarily due to union labor agreements.
antonio16309@reddit
I'm not sure the family of the few would agree, abd in this scenario with no public interest in hearing what happened, I personally would prioritize the preference of the families.
Silverwhite2@reddit
Shut up
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ApprehensiveFactor98@reddit
That attitude is why you're stuck in maintenance and will never fly.
Silverwhite2@reddit
What gives you the confidence to say anything like that about me?
latedescent@reddit
I think it’s important to note as well that this isn’t their actual voices since it’s a recreation
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
it is practically very close to their actual voices / recording.
no generative trickery going on.
latedescent@reddit
I fly at UPS and I knew the captain, this sounds nothing like him.
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
It's only as good as the recording, of course tones etc. may be distorted from either the recording side of the things or the processing.
Feel free to compare the second clip with MD-11 Engine Fire Alarm - YouTube side by side.
latedescent@reddit
Of course the fire alarm is going to sound the same, it’s already a digital voice, but passing this off as their actual voices for clicks is pretty shitty
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
The processing treats all frequencies the same, it's very close to the recording and I can make out the entirety of some words phonetic alphabet, I am not passing it off as something it is not because it is what was provided, faithfully, it is an accurate representation of the CVR.
GIVES-HONEST-ANSWER@reddit
The fact that you decided to do this, upload it, and are defending it _by claiming "it is practically very close to their actual voices" (have you heard their actual voices?) should be enshrined as a textbook case of "clueless and socially unaware Redditor".
Hope the news interviews go well, or whatever you were trying to achieve with this.
Imaginary-Spray3711@reddit
It is not.
Imaginary-Spray3711@reddit
This is NOT in any way an accurate representaion of the CVR. It is either manipulated or fake. Read the transcript.
MirceaPhoto690@reddit
"Rotate" "V2" .. "Oh shi oh shi oh shi..." God I can't... The terror they must've felt when the sound of the engine detaching rumbled..
And the N259UP's cvr audio recorded all 3 engines on fire (with one gone)... oh man...
MillionFoul@reddit
No it did not, those are samples from testing the aural warnings on another UPS aircraft for comparison to the accident flight.
Killentyme55@reddit
I was wondering where the "engine three fire" alert was coming from as that was the only engine not affected by the initial failure.
MirceaPhoto690@reddit
Thank you for clarifying me
Sudden_Napkin@reddit
I think I’m hearing “oh shit shit hold the nose hold the nose”
Imaginary-Spray3711@reddit
The engine fire warnings that are heard here are exemplars of the preflight fire test, not what actually occurred during the crash sequence. In the event of an actual fire warning on takeoff, the aural fire warning is inhibited until 400 feet. An engine fire warning during takeoff is indicated only be a master warning light on the glareshield and an illuminated red light in the fuel cutoff switch. The spectrograms were being used to attempt to identify a high pitched noise that occurred on the CVR. They were unable to identify the source.
MirceaPhoto690@reddit
totally forgot about that... I apologise for the misinformation
ContributionEasy6513@reddit
Very impressive work reconstructing the audio. Investigators are not going to make that mistake releasing this type of data again.
Not a fan of releasing CVR data, but those pilots remained calm, professional and committed to flying the aircraft against impossible odds.
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
I was considering not posting this, the final final moments weren't included (I wouldn't include the moment where they're crashing / suffering... that'd be very disrespectful to the victims.) & the pilots stayed really professional, pictures of the pilots & text don't really put us exactly right where we should be, only then combined with audio, video, you can really see and feel what happened and have it forged in your mind, what these exemplary pilots tried to do during a, basically, unrecoverable situation.
You may feel uncomfortable and unsettling, that's the point, we go what they went through in 3rd person, feel it, empathize it, learn from it, & remember them.
I also hope the NTSB realizes this is possible and doesn't post it in the future aswell.
I've asked many pilots this, also uncomfortable, question, despite 9000 armchair keyboard warriors saying otherwise they all mostly agree that they wouldn't mind it being televisioned..
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
If there was any value to be gained from releasing the audio the NTSB would do it. No real pilot is going to support you posting this. Hope you’re happy with the clout though while people have to listen to their friend’s final moments.
SalsaForte@reddit
This is a testament to their professionalism, their dedication and their heroism in a sense.
To me, it sounded like people who will fight until the end. Imo, this is important for the people/public to know that.
R.I.P.
Having said so, if these are kept private I would also accept that. Totally understandable.
Memory_Less@reddit
Such an excellent post in every level. Thank you, and RIP to the pilots and thoughts and prayers to the families, friends and colleagues who knew them. The ripples are large.
StellarWaffle@reddit
this is an incredibly eloquent response. you are a credit to our community
ContributionEasy6513@reddit
Thanks for the detailed reply, I agree with your position.
There are some similar CVR recordings which highlight the pilots doing all they could which can provide some closure to the victims. JAL123 comes to mind
Maybe1AmaR0b0t@reddit
Jesus that's one of the worst things I've ever heard. I don't know how crash investigators do it, listening to a CVR must be an absolute gut punch.
railker@reddit
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2nka1rc37g8
From one of the documentaries covering AF447, when they finally find and decode the CVR, investigators talking about listening to it for the first time, starts around 45:00 in.
IAmTheHype427@reddit
IIRC from the Mayday episode about Emery Worldwide 17, the generally accepted statistic is that pilots who are called in to review CVRs during these investigations (mostly to confirm identities) usually quit flying within about 2 years.
Maybe1AmaR0b0t@reddit
I can understand why.
Flyinghud@reddit
Jesus that’s fucking terrifying
aye246@reddit
It is chilling and tragic for sure; however once you’ve listened to the Western Airlines Mexico City crash CVR (also a DC-10, although not the aircraft’s fault), you either never want to listen to CVR audio again, or you can tolerate a lot of final pilot’s moment audio.
Petr0vitch@reddit
i looked it up and jesus that is horrifying
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
And it is not even including the last 8 seconds...
oranges1cle@reddit
Why not?
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
There was speech during the last 8 seconds.
howtorewriteaname@reddit
I'll bite: why didn't you upload it?
dacooljamaican@reddit
I would imagine it's because it contains the moments the pilots realize they are going to die, and what they say in those moments is IMO private.
JimTheJerseyGuy@reddit
Also, it's not going to hold any real value to the crash investigation. They were fucked the moment that engine cut loose and there wasn't anything they were going to be able to do to change that outcome. I can't even imagine the situation in the cockpit with three engine fire alarms going off at V1. Goddamn terrifying.
Im_Balto@reddit
There’s just not that much value in that information being public.
We know what went wrong. The NTSB has mountains of evidence to back up their conclusion without explicitly sharing this information
fredly594632@reddit
The NTSB most usually redacts that sort of thing put of respect for the pilot and families.
Asystole@reddit
OP's reconstruction is based on the released spectrogram which ends where it does.
ltjpunk387@reddit
At what point is the impact? This audio feels too long for what I recall of the flight, but I don't know the exact timeline. I assume this audio is all from the flight, and not after impact. I'm intrigued by the lack of pilot speech for a long period during the alarms and roughly silent periods. I would expect lots of dialogue in this situation.
atcthrowaway452@reddit
The audio here ends at the initial impact. The CVR continued for another 8 seconds, which wasn't relevant to the investigation and is probably too morbid to be released or to be made public.
NotMyRealUsername13@reddit
I think the end of it is actually after the crash.
Ruepic@reddit
It’s missing the last 8 seconds I’m pretty sure. Pilots were busy flying an out of control aircraft, they won’t say much unless it’s critical or final words basically…
AardQuenIgni@reddit
As the crash was happening someone gave a speech? How did they even have the time to think of anything to say. That's horrific.
Winston_Carbuncle@reddit
Not a speech. Words were spoken.
kingtacticool@reddit
Jesus
Asystole@reddit
I think it's less than that, right? Your reconstruction (impressive work btw) includes the start of the tritone warning at the very end. The transcript has the tritone at 17:13:27.2 and the end of recording at 17:13:31.8, so it's 4.6 seconds.
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
I timed it at [loud thumping sounds], it seems you might be more accurate, yes, that'd be correct
thisdan379@reddit
since this cvr recording could be reconstructed, I'm guessing other CVRs with their spectrograms published can be reconstructed as well?
railker@reddit
I've never seen a spectrogram released, think they only did it this time as they had an 'unidentified sound' and they were probably just intending on showing what they were seeing and investigating.
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
depends on their resolution, yes.
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yourlocalFSDO@reddit
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. There’s a reason the NTSB doesn’t release CVR recordings. This should at least be marked nsfw
RobotMaster1@reddit
I saw a post from Scott Manley saying releasing this image will allow someone to recreate the audio (which is, as we know, otherwise intentionally withheld) and here we are.
imaguitarhero24@reddit
Was there a stated reason they released this much?
Im_Balto@reddit
They had some specific details about the frequencies that come into the recorders at specific moments as the incident unfolded.
I imagine they included these spectrograms to illustrate those details
RobotMaster1@reddit
They had a very long hearing yesterday and this is from the accompanying report. It’s viewable on YT (9 hours!) if you want to really dive in. NTSB channel is worth subscribing to. Seems like they’re one of the better run federal agencies.
imaguitarhero24@reddit
Yeah there are some things that you definitely do want a government to take care of and the really important safety stuff they're pretty good with. The FDA, car safety regulations, FAA, OSHA. There are obviously issues with all of the above but we do pretty well in those areas all things considered and we'd be worse off without them.
Own-Tomato4335@reddit
Idk if it’s accurate but I read somewhere they released this as they’re trying to piece together when the bolts gave way and also what warnings arose from the second engine was damaged
kaiservonrisk@reddit
I thought CVR recordings weren’t released to the public anymore? Chilling audio
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
They aren't, this is work derived off of a 245kb spectrogram jpeg that was released.
It is missing phase information and is highly compressed so has gone through a lot of work.
kaiservonrisk@reddit
Oh I gotcha. I’m still surprised they released that much. It allows people to essentially reconstruct the CVR recording.
ApprehensiveFactor98@reddit
Honestly I think they figured no one would be creepy enough to do that, but hey.
antonio16309@reddit
Some people have no shame and think that just because they can do something, they should.
atbths@reddit
You clicked it.
Troj1030@reddit
Humans have always been curious.
gscalise@reddit
Is this your own work? I know it's relatively simple image+signal processing, but it's still very impressive.
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
Yes.
Calibrated & fine tuned with griffin-lim, tried pghi & sms too but they didn't yield good results.
Blue_Etalon@reddit
The NTSB released the spectrograms for some reason (I'd never seen this before). Over on Twitter, Scott Manley was speculating if someone could reconstruct the audio from those images. I guess the answer is yes.
I did not want to listen, but I couldn't not listen to it.
gscalise@reddit
The NTSB released the spectrograms as part of a study to identify a 6.25kHz ringing noise on the CVR that appears right after rotation, that the CVR group hadn't been able to identify.
Looking at the spectrograms helps to time-correlate the ringing with whatever else was occurring throughout the event.
Blue_Etalon@reddit
Yea, reconstructing the conversations is just so hard to listen to.
DiligentCredit9222@reddit
I believe he reconstructed then from the spectrogram.
wearsAtrenchcoat@reddit
They published the spectrogram of the CVR?
isn’t that the same as releasing the actual recording?
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
Not really, it's only the amplitude (missing the phase information) & is highly compressed (for audio).
InteractiveCream@reddit
Aaaaaaaaaand just like that the NTDB never realizes stuff like this again. What's the point of releasing data like this if you don't want people on the Internet to put it together?.
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
speculative: they might've anticipated this, hence the early cutoff, or it's just what they gave to the spectrogram analysts.
Alfalfa-Boring@reddit
Since CVR recordings aren't supposed to be released anymore, I'm guessing this is the last time ever they'll release a spectrogram.
How was there no one in the NTSB smart enough to figure out that people on the internet could reverse engineer it?
Jesus.
FenBlacach@reddit
Important Context:
Only the first spectrogram, with the "Rotate." "V2" is from the accident aircraft; the rest are from the reconstruction exemplar aircraft, N251UP.
WhalesForChina@reddit
Thank you. I didn’t think the plane had been in there air anywhere near long enough to hear the engine fire callouts.
goodmoto@reddit
Ah yeah, this is definitely important context. This should be pinned if true.
Which_Material_3100@reddit
God, that is terrifying.
YELLOW_TOAD@reddit
Eerie......
Imagine what we're NOT hearing.....
RIP
kingtacticool@reddit
OP stated that this does not contain the last eight seconds of the CVR. When the plane was on the ground there was still audio from the CVR
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
the last few seconds of the pilots aren't included, it wasn't just ground background noise.
kingtacticool@reddit
Oh ok. My bad. When I read your previous comment it seemed like you were saying there were voices in the last 8 second
GIVES-HONEST-ANSWER@reddit
Of all the hobbyist projects and things one could do, this is certainly one of them.
pizzlepullerofkberg@reddit
They lost all engines??? God help them.
MillionFoul@reddit
Please read the captions. Those are test recordings form another aircraft for comparison.
No-Audience-1969@reddit
Horrible
angelic_sun@reddit
fuck thats scary to hear, even the warning system slowly saying each engine number being on fire
MillionFoul@reddit
That is test audio from another aircraft for comaprison.
angelic_sun@reddit
i was mid editing my comment yeah fair, got it wrong, still chilling!
oranges1cle@reddit
I’m gutted. Absolutely dreadful.
Great CRM guys. Tried to fly it until the last second.
What does he say after “hold on hold on hold on. Right there. Pause pause. Trace it trace it(sp?), firewall it.”
Known-Diet-4170@reddit
freeze it freeze it*
meaning keep that attitude, this was a moment were the plane almost stabilized so the pm was probably telling the PF to maintain what he was doing in the hope that the plane would stay in the air, but alas it wasn't enough
austinredditaustin@reddit
PM=pilot monitoring PF=pilot flying
Signal_Ball4634@reddit
It's honestly heartbreaking hearing clearly good pilots in a situation they have no chance of saving
naturalhigh4@reddit
I believe on the transcripts they released they said "Freeze it"
Rook8811@reddit
Dude they sounded like a great group of guys so tragic;(((
Main_Violinist_3372@reddit
Man this is unsettling.
Also, can someone explain to me why was the spectrogram released?
Sorry_Structure_4356@reddit
Why was there a engine 2 fire warning? Engine 1 and 3 make sense but not engine number 2
Mesoscale92@reddit
I think debris from engine 1 hit engine 2. Not sure about 3 though.
SnooCamera@reddit
1 left, 2 right, 3 tail. The MD-11 keeps the DC-10 numbering.
Mesoscale92@reddit
TIL.
SnooCamera@reddit
Strike that.
Imaginary-Spray3711@reddit
I’m sorry but that is incorrect. The tail engine is the number 2 engine.
SnooCamera@reddit
I think you are right. This strongly implies it when it comes to ground handling.
His_Name_Is_Twitler@reddit
Why is it when I look it up I’m seeing #2 is the tail?
unpluggedcord@reddit
okay cool, but nobody is answerng why all 3 were on fire when it was reported only 2 caught fire.
SFcouple55@reddit
The three separate fire warnings after the first reconstructed spectrogram recording were taken during a test to ascertain the unknown sound frequency picked up by the CVR in the actual crash. The first spectrogram you hear is the reconstruction from the CVR of the accident. Take a look at the report.
unpluggedcord@reddit
thank you.
MillionFoul@reddit
Those are sample recordings the NTSB took in another aircraft, the accident aircraft did not receive any fire warnings.
AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
Please read the captions!
unpluggedcord@reddit
What captions?
NuclearDC10@reddit
Because no one here has the answer?
MillionFoul@reddit
There is so far no evidence of ingestion damage to the #2 engine, which remained at above 100% N1/N2 speed until shortly before impact (excepting two blips where it decelerated by \~10% and then recovered).
Shaowcube@reddit
Engine 2 is the one in the back
SnooCamera@reddit
1 left, 2 right, 3 tail. The MD-11 keeps the DC-10 numbering.
Pragmatist_Hammer@reddit
Why do you keep posting this false information, 2 is the tail. A simple Google gives you a bunch of articles, including MD ones, indicating 2 is the tail. I don't know the policy for linking to URLs but, well, go ahead, Google it.
His_Name_Is_Twitler@reddit
Why is it when I look it up I’m seeing #2 is the tail?
Imaginary-Spray3711@reddit
Incorrect. The #2 engine is the tail mounted engine.
unpluggedcord@reddit
Since someone else answered me and not you, its becuse that is a sample recording.
SFcouple55@reddit
The three separate fire warnings after the first reconstructed spectrogram recording were taken during a test to ascertain the origin of the unknown sound frequency picked up by the CVR in the actual crash. The first spectrogram you hear is the reconstruction from the CVR of the accident. Take a look at the report.
ktchv@reddit
the first spectrogram is the only one from the accident flight. the rest of them are exemplars of engine failure/stick shaker for reference
MillionFoul@reddit
Those are sample recordings from another MD-11F in the UPS fleet, the accident aircraft did not receive any fire warnings, though the tri-tone warning was heard.
Imaginary-Spray3711@reddit
What you are hearing is the fire warning test, not the actual crash sequence.
Lazy-Training5303@reddit
Wait am I being thick or does the description specifically mention it being the engine fire test's recording? Same goes for the stick shaker.
Temporary-Algae-6698@reddit
Absolutely terrifying
mb194dc@reddit
Not listening to that...
Full-sendy@reddit
Just boarded my flight, should not have listened to that
mbrz2477@reddit
I am intentionally not going to listen to this.
No-Brilliant9659@reddit
Damn this is creepy
skyliners_a340@reddit
Man, this is unsettling.
dangledingle@reddit
Nightmare stuff. RIP.
Imaginary-Spray3711@reddit
It is saying “engine one fire..”. Not “into one fire”. Etc.
Acrobatic-Post9811@reddit
Chilling. Good lord, I can't imagine.
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AlexandraMaryWindsor@reddit (OP)
OG derived work from https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB?ID=20370713&FileExtension=pdf&FileName=12B-DCA26MA024_CVR_SpectrumStudy-Rel.pdf