New Microsoft Surface for Business PCs pair Panther Lake chips with as little as 8GB of RAM — 8GB 13-inch Surface Laptop goes light on memory but still starts at $1,299
Posted by -protonsandneutrons-@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 60 comments
For those that may claim Surface "is actually super popular with businesses, you just don't see it":
Surfaces just aren’t as popular as other computers. They have never managed to take more than 2.1% market share of PC shipments ... Microsoft declined to comment on whether it considers Surface successful. [source]
It brings multiple billions, but Surface likely costs an enormous amount of money. Years ago, Microsoft stopped reporting Surface revenue separately, much less a profit / operating income number for Surface in the history of the division.
//
I used to think Surface only existed to "push Windows OEMs to do better", but I'd say Windows OEMs are more responsive to Apple's MacBook designs than to Microsoft's Surface designs. Very, very few (see the market share) and likely desperate companies will be running to ask for a "volume discount" on $1300 8GB machines.
timerski@reddit
Keep in mind the memory is **shared** with the Qualcomm GPU! I thought it would have had dedicated memory pool (should have done my research)... I had blackouts on browsers with *some* tabs open with dual 1440p monitors. My 16GB memory is always fully used. Absolutely mental.
Exist50@reddit
That's literally any laptop with an iGPU. And these are the Intel ones, not Qualcomm.
Vaxtez@reddit
8GB is absurd for £1300.
On the Macbook Neo, I can get why it's 8GB, as the A18 Pro will only support that much, but on a Panther Lake CPU, 8GB is absurd.
LettuceElectronic995@reddit
A18 Pro will support more than that.
where are you coming with these conclusions from?
zenithtreader@reddit
No it won't. It is a smartphone SoC where DRams sit on top of the chip. All 18A pro devices so far have 8GB of rams only and I doubt Apple actually designed any extra physical connections for more.
Exist50@reddit
You don't need extra connections. The packages are standardized.
BossHogGA@reddit
Apple’s A18 Pro utilizes TSMC’s InFO-POP (Integrated Fan-Out Package on Package) technology, meaning that the DRAM sits on top of the die as part of the silicon. The technology giant re-purposed the same SoC and incorporated it into the MacBook Neo, which is why the latter is limited to 8GB of RAM.
Exist50@reddit
That's just wrong. As the term itself indicates, it's a PoP configuration. If Apple wanted to package more RAM with the A18, they absolutely could.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
"support": do we mean theoretically support or practically support?
When the A18 Pro was designed & DRAM contracts were signed, it was for 8GB RAM only. No A18 Pro device has 4GB or 6GB or 10GB or 12GB RAM.
Thus by Apple choosing the A18 Pro, they likely locked in 8GB DRAM contracts, too: all A18 Pros will be 8GB only. And I suspect Apple got a better deal than most, if not purely based on sheer volume (\~100 million dies).The Neo also uses binned A18 Pro dies, so that significantly reduces the already-cheap cost ($50?).
Now, whether that was a good choice compared to the A19 Pro (that only shipped with 12GB RAM) for the Neo, is a separate question.
77ilham77@reddit
What did you mean it "will" support?
UmaThurmish@reddit
the macbook neo is 500 dollars
Exist50@reddit
Only if you're a student/teacher.
loozerr@reddit
it is also manufactured and sold by the apple corporation
msthbe@reddit
8GB of RAM is criminal
UmaThurmish@reddit
8 GB for windows is unuseable. 16 GB is barely useable in my opinion when it comes to windows 11 . my windows 10 PC idles at like 10GB with nothing open and dropbox and a couple software running in the background. and it's LTSC without the extra crap. and my computer at work with 11 idles even higher
you're basically a browser and another software away from a near full memory
cadaada@reddit
Normal people can easily deal with 8gb
ThePresident44@reddit
Unused RAM is wasted RAM. Windows 11 can deal with 8GB just fine
work-school-account@reddit
Yeah I would say 8 GB is fine if you're basically just using it as a Chromebook or iPad. There was a sale on BAPCS a few days ago for cheap Ice Lake and Tiger Lake Surfaces with 8 GB RAM (IIRC $200 for the tablet or $300 for the tablet + keyboard cover) and I got one for my mom who just uses it for emails, coupon hunting, web forums like MissyUSA, and bootleg Korean dramas. Before I saw this I was thinking maybe an iPad or a MacBook Neo, which have 6 GB and 8 GB respectively.
The main issue is $1300 for 8 GB memory.
70_n_13@reddit
fully agreed except idle ram usage is not really indicative of anything. It only matters when your apps actually run out of available physical memory and start using swap.
yes 8gb is criminal in this age but calling it unsable and 16 barely unusable is crazy. 8gb is perfectly fine for even multiple tabs web browsing and office apps. Obviously its gonna be slower since it cant preload/keep more stuff in the memory.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
8GB is fine even on Windows. I've shared this video many times, but people refuse to actually watch the latency differences between 8GB vs 16GB. 8GB is enough for the overwhelming majority of users.
PCWorld Latency Perception Comparison | Is 8GB Enough For Windows Laptops?
Don't take my word for it. Watch the video.
//
The real criminal behavior is that price tag: at $1300, it is absolutely not fine and it is highway robbery.
loozerr@reddit
Ironic how it could make for a pretty good Linux laptop.
SelectTotal6609@reddit
HOW IS APPLE CHEAPER WTF??
F9-0021@reddit
Vertical integration. They can use cheap leftovers from their phones to power inexpensive laptops. We'll see what happens when they run out of leftover memory, but it should still be significantly cheaper due to not having a middleman taking their own profit.
IBM296@reddit
Apple has been on a roll since September. Making awesome products at great pricing. iPhone 17 is a better phone than S26 Plus while being $300 cheaper.
MacBook Neo at $600 is better than most $1100 windows laptops.
Part of me thinks Apple is doing it deliberately this year (keeping prices lower when its competitors are raising prices) in order to gain more market share.
i5-2520M@reddit
Why are you comparing the base model to the Plus?
IBM296@reddit
Because S26 base model can't even be compared to the iPhone 17. It's so pathetic. It's just an S25 with a newer processor.
i5-2520M@reddit
Very hard to add substantial upgrades like 120hz if you have already had it for half a decade.
But please tell me what was the big update from the iPhone 16 -> 17 that makes it a paradigm shift. To me the 17 seems like the 16 with a new processor and 120hz.
IBM296@reddit
Oh where do I stop:
1) Double the base storage (256 GB from 128)
2) Bigger and brighter display (going from 1000 to 1600 nits HBM and from 2000 to 3000 nits peak brightness)
3) Bigger battery
4) Added Anti-reflective display coating
5) Upgraded from 12 MP to 18 MP ultrawide selfie camera
6) Upgraded from Ceramic Shield 1 to Ceramic Shield 2
*In addition to the already which you mentioned, 120Hz and newer processor (all for the same price of iPhone 16, $799).
The iPhone 17 is a much better phone than iPhone 16. The same can't be said for the S26 compared to S25.
i5-2520M@reddit
S26 is aroud 150$ cheaper here for the same storage, so why would I care about the base storage upgrade.
I like how Apple can drag it's ass on an obvious upgrade like 120hz then get credit for it half a decade later. Very cool.
Am I talking to the marketing department right now
IBM296@reddit
Dunno where you live. Here S26 is the same price of $799.
Lol you wouldn't be saying that if there were any meaningful upgrades to the S26 from S25. It's just the same phone with a newer processor.
The iPhone 17 has many meaningful upgrades from the iPhone 16.
shadowtheimpure@reddit
Because it's an iPhone in a laptop chassis, essentially.
IBM296@reddit
So the new Surface isn't Copilot+ certified lol?
xb9j@reddit
Copilot-
UpsetKoalaBear@reddit
They’re not launching the 8GB variant yet, that is coming later this year. The models launched today are 16GB.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they announce a “simplification” of their copilot+ branding and drop the requirements to 8GB in that period.
TitleEfficient3207@reddit
Why would I not just buy a macbook neo at this point....
shadowtheimpure@reddit
Some apps that people in the Windows ecosystem rely on probably won't run on an iPhone processor.
F9-0021@reddit
Wine and x86 to ARM translation still works, right? There's no fundamental difference between the A series phone processors and the M series Mac processors. One is just scaled up to be more powerful.
TitleEfficient3207@reddit
Okay, agreed. But Microsoft surface is absolutely not the play here. Not for 1300
shadowtheimpure@reddit
Definitely agree with you there. Just saying why some folks would need x86.
TitleEfficient3207@reddit
Funny enough, I was a day 2 adopter of the Neo, I returned it because I couldnt jive with the transition from Fedora lol
So preaching to the choir on this one.
F9-0021@reddit
Windows uses 8GB by itself. That's a $1300 paperweight unless you put a more optimized OS on it.
NeroClaudius199907@reddit
Windows uses \~2.5gb
nanjinfeng@reddit
Pretty overpriced for just 8GB RAM, even with the new Panther Lake chip. Hard to justify this pricing for business use.
igorce007@reddit
And then they come again and ask us why we don’t use Windows…
Floturcocantsee@reddit
Looks like great value to me! Why spend $600 on a Macbook Neo with it's all aluminum chassis, HiDPI screen, and snappy processor; when instead, you can pay Microsoft $1,300 for a laptop with the same 8GB of ram, worse processor, and the famous surface reliability/build quality we've all come to love! I'd say you're getting scammed if you buy the Neo at this point, it's clear that MS is providing a better product here!
Chipaton@reddit
I will say that my Surface Pro 8 probably has the highest build quality of any device I've owned. Not sure about the Laptops personally, but generally I think the Surface line is an excellent piece of hardware, just increasingly overpriced. I was able to get an open box one for about half off otherwise I wouldn't have.
cronies4life@reddit
surface is a tablet
SunfireGaren@reddit
So a laptop with a touchscreen that will only be lightly used.
dparks1234@reddit
For twice as much as a MacBook
PlaDook@reddit
This is about the surface laptop
01celica@reddit
yeah 8gb for $1300 is wild. my work laptop cost half that and came with 16gb, so i don't really get the surface pricing strategy.
huanhuan17@reddit
Strong chip performance paired with low memory feels mismatched. Time and Technology are moving forward
R-ten-K@reddit
MS never really intended to capture a dominant share of the PC market. Las thing they want is to alienate their OEMs by cannibalizing any volume away from them.
ISurface largely exists as a boutique flagship product meant to reshape consumer perception of the Windows ecosystem, particularly around lifestyle branding. For a long time, Windows laptops didn't have a particularly positive perception.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
Largely if we ignore the Surface RT, Surface Go, Surface Laptop Go, Surface Laptop SE, lines etc.
Microsoft created an entire version of Windows to get Surface to compete with Chromebooks in education:
Windows 11 SE & Microsoft Surface Laptop SE for Education
mourningwitch@reddit
Watching Windows OEMs right now is like watching a train crash in slow motion lol. 8GB of RAM at that price is absurd. Especially coming after the Neo.
If you want even more of a laugh, go check out Dell's pricing on their new business models. $2,819 for the "Dell Pro 7 Series 14" with an i7, 16GB ram, 256gb storage, and a garbage-tier display. They charge $600 more to go up to 32GB RAM.
shadowtheimpure@reddit
Unfortunately, that's what 16GB of DDR5 goes for these days.
timfountain4444@reddit
Our company policy is all new Dell laptops (we only buy Dell) come with 32G as standard. 8G is just so short sighted. It's a Netbook for 2026.... It would be somewhat OK to sell a surface with 8GB if it could be easily upgraded, but Surface laptops are notoriously hard to impossible to upgrade, even for simple wear items like SSD's....
rebelSun25@reddit
I can imagine that 8gb working overtime like an ant pushing a boulder uphill... For all of it's life. That Windows will just get more bloated as yime goes on.
Apple pushed the mantra of "OSX runs well on 8gb" for a long time because of their unified mem design.
This will not age well on surface tho
Slasher1738@reddit
I think MS missed the memo with this one
AutoModerator@reddit
Hello -protonsandneutrons-! Please double check that this submission is original reporting and is not an unverified rumor or repost that does not rise to the standards of /r/hardware. If this link is reporting on the work of another site/source or is an unverified rumor, please delete this submission. If this warning is in error, please report this comment and we will remove it.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.