Stuck at 55
Posted by _scout_2019_@reddit | projectcar | View on Reddit | 45 comments
Alright I have a sbc powered 1964 triumph spitfire. When I'm going down the road the fastest I go is 55 with the motor full tilt. Chevy 350, 350 trans going to the stock rear end. I think my problem is the rear end gearing. Any other ideas and any ideas of what kind of gearing I should look for if I should swap the rear end?
Heavy-Focus-1964@reddit
what kind of transmission does it have?
here’s a fun party trick: jack up one rear wheel, put a chalk mark on your driveshaft, then turn the wheel one full revolution. watch how many times the driveshaft spins. then you’ll know your rear gear ratio
XZIVR@reddit
Don't you need both wheels turning? I thought there was something to do with the spider gears that caused that to give inaccurate readings. Maybe that's not the case with all diffs though, not sure.
ChemistAdventurous84@reddit
Yes, or divide/multiply by 2. For accuracy, I’d recommend more tire rotations. With one wheel on the floor, I taped a piece of string to my driveshaft and rotated the other wheel 20 rotations. I counted the wraps as I unwound the string and divided by ten. That gave me a ratio accurate to one decimal point.
ruddy3499@reddit
Th 350 is a 1:1 in third. What kind of driving are you looking for? How built up is the motor? A gear ratio around 2:70 would be conservative with 3:70 being on the wild side. With the power to weight on that setup I would be close to 3:1 for all around performance. Ford 8.8 rear diffs came in everything and have a ton of aftermarket support
DakarCarGunGuy@reddit
3.89 or 4.10 is what Google says US market had for rear end ratios. Swapping a 8.8 with a 3.08 or possibly an even better one from a Mustang would help. And possibly get an LSD in the process.
EEpromChip@reddit
That car is crazy narrow. Chances are it's gonna need to be narrowed to even fit between the quarters.
juwyro@reddit
I narrowed an 8.8 for my MGB. It's pretty to do yourself.
lhurkherone@reddit
Timothy Leary concurs.
texasroadkill@reddit
Post says 350/350. That's 350 SBC 350 turbo trans my man.
Heavy-Focus-1964@reddit
that always confuses me as a Fordtard
juwyro@reddit
The trans is going through all the gears?
_scout_2019_@reddit (OP)
Yeah I can feel it going through all three when idling down the road. Usual suspects on the trans like vacuum modulator and governor check out
juwyro@reddit
The speed is verified? Have a different trans with a different speedo gear will throw off the dash speedo.
I don't think the problem is in the diff. It's got to be something with the swap.
EEpromChip@reddit
Turns out it's only hitting second gear and maxing out...
Boilermakingdude@reddit
Something's fucky. Either the trans is slipping, or the speedo isnt accurate
_scout_2019_@reddit (OP)
Verified by GPS speed
Feeling-Being9038@reddit
Thinking this through, I wouldn’t blame the rear end first until the basics are proven. A stock early Spitfire rear is likely 4.11, which is short, but with a TH350 in 3rd gear, 55 mph should only be around 3,300–3,600 rpm depending on tire height and converter slip. Annoying, sure. An issue for a Chevy 350? No.
First thing I’d verify is whether the TH350 is actually making it into 3rd. If it’s stuck in 2nd, 55 mph becomes 5,000+ rpm, and suddenly the whole circus makes sense. Confirm GPS speed, actual tach RPM, tire diameter, real rear gear ratio, and what converter is in it.
To confirm the rear gear, don’t guess by year. Jack it up and count it. Put the trans in neutral, mark the driveshaft and a rear tire. If it’s an open diff, jack up one rear wheel and leave the other on the ground. Rotate the lifted tire two full turns while counting driveshaft rotations. A little over 4 turns is 4.11, just under 4 is 3.89, about 3.5 is 3.55, around 3.25 is 3.23/3.27, and about 3 is 3.08. If both rear wheels are up and both tires turn the same direction, rotate the tire one full turn and count the driveshaft directly. The open-diff trick is the key: one wheel up means two tire rotations, or the math gets drunk.
You can rough-check the converter with a quick foot-brake stall test. Warm it up, hold the brakes hard in Drive on flat ground, stab the throttle just long enough to see where RPM stops climbing, then get out of it immediately. We’re talking 2–3 seconds, not roasting the transmission like county-fair meat. A tight street converter may show around 1,500–2,000 rpm. If it’s more like 2,800–3,500+, a loose/high-stall converter is adding to the problem.
If it really is a TH350, 4.11s, tiny tires, and no overdrive, then yes, it’s geared like a squirrel in a coffee can. The clean fix is an overdrive with lockup, like a 700R4/4L60. With the 4.11s, that puts 55 mph around 2,350 rpm locked and 70 mph around 3,000 rpm locked. A better cruiser would be 3.42–3.55 gears with overdrive, but I’d prove it has 3rd gear before tearing into the rear end.
virulentspore@reddit
This feels like a troll post.
BigEarMcGee@reddit
Plugged cat. I had the same issue on a 1985 P30 that had 350 with turbo400 cut the cat off and she went 80 no problem. Just a note I did not go that fast on normally because it had pizza cutter tires and no ABS soooo it did not like to stop quick.
swissarmychainsaw@reddit
This would go better if you gave us more information.
Off the top of my head:
Throttle not opening all the way.
Your transmission is not shifting out of first or second.
I doubt it's your rear end gear ratio that just doesn't make sense.
Is it revving really high at 55 mph?
LoudMouse327@reddit
Before thinking about gear ratios, we really need to know what RPM you are at at "full tilt"
Even a hydraulic fkat tappet cam with very weak springs, and a points ignition, also with weak springs, should be capable of 4,500rpm at least.
When I have customers bring me cars with similar problems, and they wont rev past a certain point, it is often just a throttle linkage issue. Before getting into real technical stuff, like gearing, you should make sure you're actually getting full throttle travel.
texan01@reddit
If it's got a 4.11 rear end, it could be just getting out of it's power band at 55. with that 1;1 top gear it's just wound tight. swap in an overdrive or re-gear it to something more sensible like a 3.23 or 3.08.
I've got a 77 Ranchero with a 3.90 and a stock 351w - by 60 it's revved out at 3 grand with 14" wheels, it can pull to 80 but it's absolutely a dog at anything above 50mph though. - like it's a hero to 40, and then falls flat on it's face to where even my GM minivan will catch, pass, and put bus lengths on it by the end of the quarter.
dsgoose@reddit
I have a stock '64 Spitfire. Its 4th gear is 1:1, and the tach reads about 3700 rpm at 60 mph. That's normal for these cars, but a small block Chevy at 3700 rpm is a different experience.
I'd look at a rear end swap. It's a good reason to get rid of the sketchy swing arm diff in favor of a straight axle.
Ok_Dog_4059@reddit
Gearing and even wheels and tires could help but I don't think gearing is your only problem. Just thinking through it not doing actual math I can't imagine why a V8 would only turn 55 mph and be rung out. Something more than just low gearing seems to be happening.
Big-Energy-3363@reddit
I surprised the stock rear end is still together!!
Feeling-Being9038@reddit
1964 Spitfire has a 4.11 rear end, and what you’re saying makes sense. Where did the motor and transmission come from, and what kind of stall speed is the converter?
To make this work you’re looking at 3.08 gears or numerically lower if you want to keep the TH350. It’s still going to rev high on the highway, but I’m assuming you aren’t going to be taking this for long highway cruises. 2.73s are the right fit, but it’s going to have a really lazy launch which isn’t the reason you put an sbc in a triumph.
Replacing the transmission with a 700r4 is the single part best answer, but the best all around solution is going to be a 700r4 and 3.55 or 3.42 gears.
You could also look to Gear Vendors who make an overdrive unit for the TH350, it would still be pretty spicy and pricey, while the stall speed of the converter is a big part of the story that’s missing.
evildaddy911@reddit
350 3rd gear is 1:1. Stock rear end for your year should be 4.11, but can vary down to 3.63 depending on year and country. Stock tires were 155/80r13, 22.8" diameter. Based on those, at 55mph you should be turning just shy of 3400rpm. I'd say it's most likely your transmission. You're able to get up to around 5500-6k engine rpm right? And you're actually shifting into 3rd?
Moreburrtitos22@reddit
I was getting the same calcs. Something’s not lining up because even the most restrictive gearing gets him to 80mph by 4500 rpms at top gear. Closer to 90mph
Special-Truth-1576@reddit
What if his gauge is off too, two problems
placebodyhere@reddit
Follow up question what are you running for ignition? Are you hitting the "redline" before then?
UnicornOnTheIntrenet@reddit
I would look for an 8.8 from an aerostar van or something relatively narrow, have the long side axle tube shortened for your spitfire.
Piratexp@reddit
Everyone talking about your transmission or gear ratio has some good points, but have you checked that you’re actually able to get wide open throttle?
BeyondBeginning2358@reddit
Stock rear ratio on those cars was pretty high to compensate for the stock motors lack of power.
2008WR450F@reddit
Somebody tell Sammy Hagar that it is actually possible to drive 55.
Softpretzelsandrose@reddit
Respectfully, given how wild the car looks that’s a kind of hilarious problem to have
(I think you’re right about the gearing)
Extention_110@reddit
Bet that thing could pull a mountain off its roots though lmao
Former_Mud9569@reddit
If you're maxed out at 55 mph it probably isn't the gearing. Even if you had a very deep rear gear like a 4.56. Third gear should be 1:1, so with a 23" tire you'd be cruising at 75 mph at 5000 RPM.
Either your transmission is slipping (likely) or your motor isn't revving to it's full capabilities (less likely).
friskyspatula@reddit
I did some estimate calculations using this website:
http://wallaceracing.com/calc-gear-tire-rpm-mph.php
Your top speed of 55mph with factory diameter tires of 25.4 in. assuming a 1:1 trans ratio (which is what a T350 should be) and a motor RPM of 5000. The gear ratio would be 6.54 which is an exceptionally deep rear-end ratio. That would be low for rock-crawlers.
From what I can find the factory triumph ratio should be 3.7 or 4.11.
I would bet either your transmission is garbage, it is very low on fluid, or you have a very high stall converter in it. Or, your engine has an RPM limiter that is keeping it very low.
You can find your approximate rear-end ratio by jacking the car up and counting how many times the driveshaft rotates compared to 1 rotation of the tire.
Best of luck.
Moreburrtitos22@reddit
Even if you have stock 4.1 rear end gearing, at 6,000 rpm’s at top gear you should be hitting roughly 95mph even in high resistance you should be above 80mph. I’d take this to a trans shop. Something ain’t adding up.
OhioCentrist@reddit
Speedo needle is malfunctioning, give it a good whack…
Confident-Benefit600@reddit
Does this thing have a tach? What’s RPM?
Gubbtratt1@reddit
Use this 4lo.com gear ratio calculator , plug in the tyre diameter in inches, diff ratio, redline rpm, top gear ratio, and put the transfer ratio as 1. If the mph comes out at 55, then gearing is your problem. Leave diff ratio empty, put your desired top speed as mph and it will tell you what diff ratio you'll need.
SuperSandwichGoku@reddit
Well you need to figure out what gears you have now before picking a different gearset lol. That would also tell you if it makes sense for you to be stuck at 55mph or if something else is slipping somewhere.
If you don’t have any documentation for the rear end, spin the driveshaft by hand and count the rotations of the tire to approximate. That, with your transmission gear ratios, redline rpm, and tire size, will tell you your gear limited top speed.
whipsnappy@reddit
The final drive ratio is a combination of the gearing of the transmission, the gearing of the rear end, and the size of the tires. A larger diameter tire in the rear end would give you a better top speed also. There's math to figure this out
F1rst_Time@reddit
First make sure your clutch is not slipping. If it’s not it’s probably a gearing problem like you stated, what differential does it have?