Team survival indicators
Posted by gobluedev@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 17 comments
For those who have been on possibly dying teams and/or failed projects what were the biggest indicators you noticed?
Current team leadership is trying to recruit me to stay. I put our survival at 5-10%. I’m just trying to gauge if that 5-10% is correct and be able to judge not riding the ship down.
ironichaos@reddit
No backfills when managers leaves.
Leadership spends more time planning and trying to figure out a direction than actually delivering features. This is the main one imo because there just isn’t anything to do to save the product but leadership doesn’t want to lose their job so they just keep trying to reorg or propose projects that everyone knows will fail.
gobluedev@reddit (OP)
So our manager hasn’t left but the devs we have lost haven’t been replaced. But that 2nd point really resonates with me. Literally what we’re working through right now is a team reorg.
rayfrankenstein@reddit
If I had to pick one thing, it’s leadership not recognizing you already have an uphill battle, and doing things to make the uphill battle even more uphill than it already was. Often increasing scope when they should be cutting it.
A change in the projects fate often requires a change of leadership. And the new leaders often do not want to take on a damned project.
ChickenSaladHoagie@reddit
I had a slightly more extreme version of this - where the subsidiary of the larger company I was at was slipping. In that case it was simply a factor of changing demand leading to less interest in our product.
The clearest sign was the attitude of higher ups to the endeavor. A sudden switch from heavy involvement to very little involvement felt like the moment management realized we weren't bouncing back and decided to focus energy elsewhere.
I had worked in the team long enough and had enough established rapport with management to speak with them about the situation, and request a switch to a different subsidiary of the parent company. That said, I was lucky - and this doesn't always work out.
YahenP@reddit
This is usually noticeable from the very first days of a project, sometimes even before the project even starts. This is quite common. I'd say that in some cases (depending on your specialization), this can be the dominant option.
Just work as long as you're getting paid. Set a date in your head when you'll start looking for a new job, and as soon as that date arrives, look for a new job. The future of the project or the company isn't your concern.
Melodic_Crow_3409@reddit
What I noticed is that there appeared to be no forward momentum. The project seemed stuck. No one wants to listen to warnings.
Then, you see management start leaving.
gobluedev@reddit (OP)
So lack of features getting implemented or technical debt piling up?
Melodic_Crow_3409@reddit
More lack of features being implemented.
No-Economics-8239@reddit
Over my career, the key attributes that mark a successful team have been clear priorities, deliverable goals, and a unified voice. If you are getting multiple demands on your time and attention from different sources, that usually means your team is important to at least some members of the business. But if your team leadership can't manage those different voices to keep you focused on one priority at a time that you can actually deliver, then it doesn't matter because you spend too much time spinning your wheels. And while it's good to have a diversity of ideas on the time that are willing to challenge one another, if they can't figure out how to cooperate and compromise and choose the best idea or at least a viable idea, then the internal friction on the team will eventually cause something to explode. This won't necessarily kill the team, but if enough key people leave, it could.
Projects die all the time. Priorities and available information and the market and clients can change all the time. Good companies pay attention to such things and adjust accordingly.
What odds? How are you calculating them? What problem are you trying to solve? If you have leadership setting unrealistic or nonviable goals or timelines, those are red flags, especially if they aren't listening or trusting the voices telling them otherwise. And if the company is otherwise fine, what difference does a team make?
gobluedev@reddit (OP)
What a great answer. For me it’s more of a gut feeling about watching the trends of this team and forecasting where I think we’re headed. So that 5-10% is my gut feeling. We did barely make the cut during this most recent cutback/layoff. So I know the clock is ticking.
I’ll be honest I probably have caused some friction on the team since we have so much technical debt that’s piled up. The team leadership is so risk averse that they never wanted to tackle it. So what we have is a giant tech debt snowball that’s really stopped us in our tracks at times.
MathematicianFit891@reddit
Assuming you mean the company as a whole is sound. I’ve seen many failed projects, some running the course of years. Usually it’s an internal tool or system that people or forced to use, yet there are excellent alternatives available from outside sources. Eventually management figures out it’s cheap and better to shut down the internal effort.
gobluedev@reddit (OP)
Yes it’s a large company that isn’t going around. It’s more of a product that has failed and been unable to sell.
MathematicianFit891@reddit
One case in particular, for the entire time the internal product was in our workflow, we were crippled and everyone knew it. Fixes and upgrades came out slowly, but never changed the fact that it was a terrible product. Sounds like your situation is not an internal but a customer-facing product. In that case there’s really one main red flag. Constant updates from marketing/sales about the “pipeline” and spreadsheet presentations showing with various probabilities when the money will be rolling in. Landing minuscule deals which provide 1% or so of the revenue required for solvency.
SheriffRoscoe@reddit
>Current team leadership is trying to recruit me to stay.
That's the leading indicator of fuckedness, right there.
gobluedev@reddit (OP)
Man you’re so right. I think the part that I’m struggling with is the guilt. Where if it was a clean break “cya” it would be easier.
korpy_vapr@reddit
Biggest tell is management leaving but by then it’s already too late.
PM stop showing up to meetings is also a tell.
Trust your gut if the vibes are off switch jobs or at least switch teams
startupwith_jonathan@reddit
abandon ship, vibe code with greta, lol