Failed ppl check ride, what next?

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fallingfaster345@reddit

May I ask why you chose not to use it? Especially considering you were on a checkride?

Moving forward, just use the checklists. If you don’t do something in your everyday practices, you’re unlikely to do it during a checking event.

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I’m embarrassed to say I did the same thing and also failed. I’ll add from my point and I’m assuming it’s probably similar with OP, he got to the point in training where he probably stopped used the checklist on preflight and his instructor let him get away with it or didn’t notice it. He developed a bad habit and he instinctively went to that bad habit on checkride day. He didn’t even realize his mistake.

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yowzer73@reddit

Normalization of deviance - it is really easy to slow walk yourself into bad habits. Checklists are one of the key ways we avoid that.

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Swvfd626@reddit

Did you just do your pre flight and not double check the checklist after or not have it on you?

I have never carried the checklist WITH me for preflight, just reference it after to make sure I did everything. When I was asked why, I said that I use a flow and the double check.

Even when I did my commercial sitting runup I asked if he wanted a say do list or if I can do a flow and double check DPEs exact words were "When you get to the airlines you will be expected to know flows, so if you have one then that's a great start"

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Significant-Isopod46@reddit

This is my thought. If I am physically pre-flighting with checklist in hand, I feel like I spend more time double checking the list than I do looking at the actual airplane. I prefer to do my walk around and then verify with the checklist afterwards, but curious about what others think or if this meets ACS standards…

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flyghu@reddit

What's next? Schedule another checkride and use your checklists.

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Squawk_0877@reddit

i used to memorize the whole preflight too, felt faster, felt like i knew the airplane better. what works without relearning from scratch, walkaround as a flow like you already do, then before you climb in run the checklist out loud at the plane and touch each item as you read it, flow for doing, checklist for verifying. satisfies the ACS and you keep the muscle memory youve already built.

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nothimwhy@reddit

Use your damn checklist like your life depends on it. Even if you do it from memory take it out and scan it at the same time.

If you don’t get your checklist discipline down now it’s gonna lead to more failures and if/when you get to a 121 you’ll get kicked out of training for something like that too.

Failing your PPL checkride isn’t a big deal, I failed mine and I’m flying 121 now. They never even really asked me about it except on applications.

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Flaky_Summer_9800@reddit

If it’s any reassurance I also did the same thing. That’s been like 5 years at this point and I still feel like a complete idiot for failing over that. It’s a reasonable fail though. Yeah it’s kinda embarrassing to have to tell an interviewer “yeah I failed this checkride because I forgot to use a checklist”. It is what it is though.

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not-a-troller@reddit

I wonder when the last time the DPE used a checklist for a preflight on a small single.
You can do the preflight without a checklist in hand. As long as all checklist items are covered and verified once complete. But you gotta play along. Hold onto that checklist while sumping fuel. Climbing on the strut to check fuel level. Even the Cessna handbook shows a flow for preflight. (At least the old ones did)

If I were watching, I’d make sure you covered everything and reviewed the checklist after to ensure all items were complete.

Probably a lot of you won’t agree.

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Spirit_of_No_Face@reddit

The DPE didn’t even subtly remind you or anything? Man… unless you really missed something critical, it feels to me that the DPE would’ve likely found another reason to fail you later on.

No checkride is perfect, and I’m pretty sure most people make a mistake here and there, they absolutely know perfection isn’t the standard… so unless you were displaying a consistent pattern of deviation outside the standard, I can’t see how this warrants a fail?

Okay if you failed to use your checklist on emergency procedures, fair… but on the ground preflighting? Common…

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Far_Technology7856@reddit

lol what? This definitely warrants an unsat

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chicagoderp@reddit

A check ride is the only test you’ve ever taken in your life where you can basically score a 99 and still fail. Don’t overthink it.

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Tough_Efficiency_719@reddit

But I’m genuinely rattled because I’ve never failed any kind of test or exam in my life.

Well congratulations! You've just learned something. And this ought to be the biggest takeaway from this whole thing. Failing is learning. It's how we improve ourselves. The real shame isn't in failing for something as stupid as not using a checklist. It's in being so rattled by this one thing that you're considering giving up your entire future.

Guess what? Everybody fails. Most of us fail way more than we ever win. That's life, not an excuse to quit. Now go out there, checklist in hand ,and prove that you learned from this. And after your successful retake, go out into the world and fail some more. It will make you better.

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Krysocks@reddit

your instructor should've drilled into you how important checklist usage is ESPECIALLY for things you do every flight. we're human and can get complacent, but it is impossible to miss things if you're using a checklist properly

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ChestertonsFence1929@reddit

Agreed. The instructor should have been making sure the checklists were being used in three weeks leading up to the exam.

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TxAggieMike@reddit

DPE was very fair.

Any chance he was dropping a comment or two as you were walking g around that were really hints that something wasn’t correct?

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Necessary-Wall-2196@reddit

DPE was totally fair... we're provided checklists for a reason... ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have your checklist, even if it's on FF

The mantra 'Do and Verify' can only be accomplished WITH a checklist

I dont know how it will affect your career, probably not too badly

You move on by admitting the mistake (which you've already done), rescheduling, and doing it again (before 60 days is up), and having more than one copy of the checklist... one in your bag and one in your car

I HAVE to ask... what in the hell were you thinking to skip the checklist? That's the FIRST thing you get when you start training

OK, I'm done with the pseudo-bashing

Reschedule and do it again... If you're ready, you're ready

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4thebeachpirate@reddit

Put the story in your back pocket for an airline interview. If you never fail at something, you never learn anything!! Press on and when you are flying the line, this whole thing will be in your rear view. Best of luck,, signed, senior international captain with one of the 4 majors.

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ATrainDerailReturns@reddit

1) these people acting like the DPE was wilding and too harsh are straight wrong and clearly don’t understand the ACS well. There’s an entire section in Appendix 2 specifically about how they should grade and evaluate checklists usage!

“Use of Checklists Throughout the practical test, the applicant is evaluated on the use of an appropriate checklist. Assessing proper checklist use depends upon the specific Task. In all cases, the evaluator should determine whether the applicant demonstrates CRM, appropriately divides attention, and uses proper visual scanning. In some situations, reading the actual checklist may be impractical or unsafe. In such cases, the evaluator should assess the applicant's performance of published or recommended immediate action “memory” items along with their review of the appropriate checklist once conditions permit.”

During preflight on the ground engine off there is zero reason to argue the checklist is impractical or unsafe.

2) Id put some of this on your CFI he should absolutely not be allowing you to preflight without a checklist, that is a wildly poor habit for a student pilot that should never have been tolerated.

The whole thing screams invulnerability

3) one checkride failure is literally a non factor, this will not affect you in any way at all if you keep it to one check ride only

4) future checkrides I would read through the whole ACS and make notes so you aren’t surprised at all but what is fail worthy

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Hawker172D@reddit

Using a checklist is a basic requirement for safety. EVERYTHING should be done BY THE BOOK. Your departure from that in front of the examiner was frankly, I’ll just say not very smart and showed not high as you said but low standard. BY THE BOOK is the only way. ONLY.

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Winter_Estate6967@reddit

My friend I totally understand you and understand your pain. I get that you have been so successful your life and feel weird failing now. Similar shoes here!

I agree with what all other people say, but I would add that it is also important in this profession to be able to keep a positive state of mind even after a failure. Not only after a checkride failure but any other kind of mistake. I came to understand as well that at some point this profession pays the big bucks bc you should be able to have the strength to focus on keeping flying safe and focus on what matters, for your own safety and your passengers, regardless of mistakes you made.

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MEtoaviator@reddit

Pre-flight was not even a part of my checkride. I had it done and the examiner only asked if it was done. This is how you should do it for every one.

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R5Jockey@reddit

Same. My DPE told me to go outside and do my preflight while he took a break.

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KehreAzerith@reddit

1: one fail? basically zero 2: checklist usage is critical for fulfilling risk management areas, DPEs have to fail you if you don't use it 3: use your checklist

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JimTheJerseyGuy@reddit

As they should.

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rilessrh@reddit

I cannot imagine not using a checklist. I feel totally confident I could pre-flight without one but I use it because I know I’m probably stupid enough to skip something important. Also it’s in the ACS lol they have to fail you for that.

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Im_an_airplane_idiot@reddit

How did you get to your check ride without having this burned into your process?

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Huge_Analysis_1298@reddit

Is this the pre flight walk around or all the before start checks kinda thing?

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KJ3040@reddit

Virtually no one will ever ask or care about a failed initial PPL checkride.
It’s a valid fail, lame, but valid. There is no reason not to refer to a checklist especially on a checkride.
Correct the error and continue striving for excellence and cooperate to graduate in the future.

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Ok_Bottle_7568@reddit

It seems like you got everything down just redo it and use the checklist man

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sniper4273@reddit

1: How much will this impact my career?

If this is your only check ride fail from here on out, not much. You may miss out on extremely competitive things, but 1 fail is fine.

2: Was my dpe fair?

PA.II.A.S1 Inspect the airplane with reference to an appropriate checklist.

By the letter of the ACS, yes. ~~Practically? Meh~~

3: How do I move on?

By scheduling and passing your re-check when you feel comfortable and confident you'll pass everything else. Don't rush it, failing it back to back would look more suspect.

Signed: Failed my PPL flight twice back to back. Currently a regional airline FO.

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LockheedTriStar@reddit

PA.II.A.S1 (reference to checklist) is a skill under the preflight task in the ACS. It’s a valid failure. Now is it annoying? I’d think so, I know a few DPEs that would probably give you the opportunity to use the checklist and move on without much thought. It’s bad practice as a PPL student to be preflighting without reference to a checklist. It won’t really affect your career unless you make failing a habit. Your CFI should’ve called this out and they failed you by not affirming (what should be) basic skills. Keep your head up and you’ll be fine. Good luck.

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IzoAzlion@reddit

You fail for not having a checklist when you're looking over the plane? What?

1 - It wont, no one will ever ask or give a shit

2 - Er, it depends if you were negligent and missed key items?

3 - Book your test and don't forget your checklist, be ultra-anal about the details.

A checklist is a list you check afterwards, its not a to-do list. If you're covering the items yourself and not missing major things, which, in any 172 or similar is really "does it have fuel, oil and do the control surfaces work"...

Worry less, be better and once you're through it move on to the next thing, after a few celebratory beers.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

TLDR at bottom

I went into my ppl checkride extremely confident prepared to crush it.

The oral went as planned. I answered nearly every question correctly and I’m quickly able to find the source material for the ones I dont know. At this point I have given the dpe 0 reasons to doubt my abilities.
Even so much so, that the dpe has completely warmed up to me and even begins to make some jokes.

I do the preflight from memory and unfortunately I fail the checkride right then and there for not preflighting with a checklist. (Facepalm)

I have high standards for myself and I dont have any excuse for failing they way I did. Its been pretty hard to get myself back in the right headspace and I’m even having doubts with continuing with flight training. I know a failed checkride inst the end of the world, but it will be extremely embarrassing to ever have to explain why I failed this checkride. Plus, im going into a field where attention to detail is so crucial. Maybe I have already developed complacency and laziness habits that show I’m not cut out for this line of work.

Look, I know most immediate reactions are to say that I’m beating myself up too hard for a trivial mistake. But I’m genuinely rattled because I’ve never failed any kind of test or exam in my life. Plus, I didn’t even get to start the flight portion. so I could very well fail something there if I don’t improve my mindset when I take the retest.

TLDR: failed checkride for preflighting without referencing a checklist

How much will this impact my career?
Was my dpe fair?
How do I move on?

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