I Didn't Want to Make This Video - Humanity has “lost the fight against climate change”.
Posted by redinator@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 86 comments
WTF_is_this___@reddit
To lose a fight one would have to actually fight. We capitulated because short term profits for the richest people on earth are more important or something.
mjk05d@reddit
No, we capitulated because most people flipped their shit over the prospect of having to sacrifice our quality of life, even a little bit, even temporarily.
Watch, I'll get you to do it:
Would you go vegan?
DukeRedWulf@reddit
If you watched the video you'd've learned that this idea that it's down to individuals is rubbish. The term "carbon footprint" was literally Big Oil PR spin to smoke-screen to distract the public into thinking this was an individual, rather than systemic problem.
Big Oil doesn't want people considering that 1/3rd of all emissions (1967 to 2017) were from just 20 giant fossil fuel companies and only 27% of electricity is used domestically.
Re: going vegan, if you want to make that happen, then campaign against gov't subsidies for the meat & milk industry, and in favour of gov't subsidies for milk & meat-like veg-based substitutes that are just as tasty, nutrtious and convenient to prep as tinned meat or fish, or cheese. Remember to do that from the POV that millions of poor people only have access to a microwave and/or a kettle to "cook" with.
Poor people cannot & will not pay 3x to 10x the price for vegan proteins, which is roughly the price differential where I'm at in the UK.
KindWolverine3925@reddit
Vegan food is vegetables dude it is automatically cheaper. Tvp tofu, seitan. All cheaper than any animal protein u will buy at the market.
DukeRedWulf@reddit
".. All cheaper than any animal protein u will buy at the market..."
That is incorrect! Per gram of protein content, the cheapest tofu* available in the supermarkets that I can walk to in my town, (and still be able to carry that load of shopping back home on foot, because: NO CAR!) is more expensive than the cheapest cheese or canned skipjack tuna chunks, which are both just over 25% protein by weight, and currently cost about £6.50 per kg..
Dairy (or fish) plus wheat or oats is nutritionally complete in amino acids (cheap bread, pasta, or cereal), so there's various full meal options from those combos..
If you don't regularly stand in the supermarket reading the nutrition labels to compare the cost of protein in different foods every time there's a price change, then you're not the level of long-term poor that I'm talking about.
[*TVP is not available at the supermarkets in range, and seitan is just very salty concentrated gluten, it's not cheap at all here, and it has the same amino acid profile as bread - given that cheap bread is already a mainstay, anymore gluten and I'd be on the sh!tter all day, every day!]
Buildingadesert11@reddit
Holy wall of excuses. How much protein do you think you need? For men it’s like 60g RDA. Easily doable without even using tofu. 2 slices of a decent bread is like 12g. Nuts and nut butters. Legumes. Sprouts. I often hit 100g protein, without tofu, without even trying.
DukeRedWulf@reddit
Holy patronising remarks! Do you understand that different people are different sizes, have different body composition, levels of activity, ability to digest, assimilate nutrients, and to maintain muscle mass!? .. No, your "one size fits all" RDA of 60g doesn't cut it!
The cheapest wholemeal loaf of bread around here only provides 4g of protein per slice, NOT 6g, so you're out by 50% there, which is not a small error, when bread accounts for the bulk of 2 meals a day!
Also, "sprouts" cost a bloody fortune round here for what they are, just the fact you've suggested that, and referred to nuts and nut butters plural indicates you're not in the bottom economic bracket I'm talking about.
Also, I already covered legumes, so you must've stopped reading halfway.
I eat what I need to eat, within a VERY tight budget, relying on what is cheapest within WALKING distance LOCALLY to maintain my health & the functional strength I need to live & do my job(s) without the use of any vehicle to fetch and carry.. I've learned how much protein I need to put into my body over the decades to keep it healthy & functioning, thanks very much!
AGAIN: "everybody go vegan" is a SYSTEMIC issue, trying to blame individuals while vegan food is high priced, a faff to prep, and poorly available will always fail, no matter how much you condescend to millions of poor people..
Every_Car2984@reddit
I think this is a good example to use; the other one I’ve seen people get riled up about is swap their car for a bicycle or public transport.
DukeRedWulf@reddit
If you want that to happen, campaign for gov't subsidies to: provide safe bike lanes and provide good public transport that's cheap enough for everyone to use it as a default.
These are all systemic issues, that have to be fixed collectively. The whole "individuals can stop climate change" is a con that the fossil fuel industry and their puppet politicians have pushed for decades, because it lets Big Oil off the hook!
Homeless-Joe@reddit
Not everyone capitulated. Eco warriors (labeled as terrorists) were very real. They just lost is all.
AntiBoATX@reddit
They’re not all out of the fight, I don’t think. Nor have they all been made yet
CaiusRemus@reddit
I mean some people did fight. I have met a few felon valve turners. I think if you’re willing to trash your life for a symbolic protest, you get a fighter badge.
Living-Excuse1370@reddit
We never even fucking tried. Over the years environmental issues got reported on less and less, and when there are articles they're stupidly ambiguous. No politician in the Western World has made the slightest effort to bring in legislation to the top polluters. The government and elites sold out our world and we are still letting them do it without lifting our heads from our phones. We cannot live without water, shade. Start loving nature again people! We're fucked without it. Wake up! Fuck the system!
Average_Satan@reddit
And the use of AI makes the climate change worse each second.
"If you're not using AI you're falling behind" is just propaganda from big tech. DON'T FALL FOR IT!
Don't use AI. Use your brain.
Epsilon_Meletis@reddit
This phrasing is all wrong, and always has been. The fight was never against climate change. Nature is not our enemy, and we should take care to not fall into a habit of seeing it that way.
The fight was against ourselves. And I struggle to call it "losing" when someone refuses to fight, or in some cases even admit that there is a fight.
We were always going to lose in some way. Our civilisation's way of life, built upon exploiting our environment, was never going to last indefinitely.
We had the chance to facilitate our way of life in a manner that would be less detrimental to future generations than what was proposed.
And we not only failed, we refused to make a meaningful effort. We didn't just lose the war, we outright refused to fight.
And make no mistake, this was just a fight. The war will be going on. We still could make a positive difference, we could make life for our descendants better - not as ideal as what could have been, that ship has sailed, but still better than what can be.
We could have done it if we had wanted to.
We still could do it if we wanted to.
Spoiler: We don't want to.
KlikketyKat@reddit
I think it's a case of "We don't want to unless everyone else has to as well."
Every_Car2984@reddit
Or better yet, “I’ll do it if you do it first”.
Shppo@reddit
yeah I'd instantly sacrifice a lot if i knew it wasn't forever nothing
Previous-Pomelo-7721@reddit
I am actually really worried about how humanity will act when faced with hunger, cannibalism will happen. I moved far enough north that I can venture out into the vast empty Saskatchewan wilderness and die alone, away from the insanity. That is actually my real plan. What a depressing reality.
SavageMell@reddit
Represent!!
SavageMell@reddit
I mean yeah. I'm one of the more remote living, hippies on reddit (wifi via satellite is readily available now compared to 15 years ago) and I just keep moving more remote every 10 or so years.
Next stop is Canadian Territories which contrary to popular belief the cities are still well below Arctic circle. I'm in my 50s and planning it as my end cycle for 60-80. And yes I fully take on the risks of dying in my home due to remote conditions.
My daughter is in Norway so more than safe for the coming times and my son works for the Army largely in remote areas.
scoobydobydobydo@reddit
I don’t think this is true since we have much more powerful technologies now and it’s not clear whether the fight is lost until the last minute.
Ill-Stable4266@reddit
Some climate activists where I live have stopped to fight and instead are working on hiwbto build solidarity for collapse. Heartbreaking, really. But also realistic.
Siglet84@reddit
That’s my biggest complaint with deniers. Even if it is fake, does it hurt you to pollute less and use less. Then there’s the “it’s just a natural earth cycle”. Ok cool, mass extinctions happened then, so maybe you want to prepare as much as possible.
GlockAF@reddit
They are…by living such wasteful and unhealthy lives that they’ll either be dead from coronary artery disease or cancer by the time the worst effects come to pass..
Gonna be some epic loot drops though…
Shppo@reddit
i need more inventory space
Cystonectae@reddit
In my mind, it's very similar to Issac Asimov's Foundation series where they aren't exactly going to prevent the shit from hitting the fan, but they are going to try to limit how long the dark ages will be afterwards. Climate change is going to hit the fan, but efforts to mitigate now are going to (hopefully) lead to the shitty times not lasting as long.
Pristinefix@reddit
Thats like building solidarity for a 100 foot wave thats 50 metres off shore while you are tanning
llandar@reddit
No, it’s like building mutual aid networks to support your vulnerable neighbors when we are all living through food shortages, the absence of emergency response, and the collapse of healthcare.
This isn’t going to be a light switch flip; it’s going to be long and protracted and extremely painful for people. Why not help where you can?
Pristinefix@reddit
Absolutely do that, its the best thing you can do. Its the equivalent of making sure you say 'i love you' right before the plane crashes
uber_sweets@reddit
It's been obvious for years. The Dark Mountain Project was ahead of their time.
EnvyofWindandRain@reddit
While I don't agree with everything of Paul Kingsnorth's work, Dark Mountain Project was completely on point. I do recommend his current book 'Against the Machine'. Dougald Hine the other co-founder on Dark Mountain is still entirely on point.
BoneHugsHominy@reddit
It was lost the moment Conservative politicians made the calculation that Westerners wouldn't accept the lower standard of living necessary to mitigate the damage while new technologies were developed, so they decided to call it a hoax and siphon off the wealth of the USA and hope to use that money to survive somewhere comfortable.
Cystonectae@reddit
I have a lot of hope for humanity, in that we can adapt and use technology to make it through this. It won't be fun, but I highly doubt it will make our species go extinct. What really hurts me to my core is the loss of other species and ecosystems, the mass extinction on the horizon. Life on earth is pretty much guaranteed to be unique in the universe, in the sense that no where else will life have evolved in the exact same way as it has here on earth. I view extinctions on earth as specifically extinctions in the universe as a whole, that is that it is a loss of what is literally the rarest resource out there. Just poof. Gone.
It's not great thinking that future generations of humans won't ever get to know about stuff like scuba diving in today's coral reefs, or seeing a swarm of butterflies, or a warm night filled with fireflies and the sound of frogs croaking.... outside of old videos and pictures. The worst party is that people are still saying that such a huge loss for humanity and life in the universe is worth it if they can still drive their trucks, go on cruises, and live their lives guilt-free and filled with excesses and luxuries.
fjf1085@reddit
This is definitely full of incorrect information. He talks about SSP3-7.0 being where we’re headed which recent information does show at all. We’re more on track for SSP2-4.5 though a little lower than that.
redinator@reddit (OP)
its three months old, the trajectory was only updated ast week, I think. I've seen some evidence lately to say that the radiative forcing is increasing not inline with the models, on track with SSP8.5 . Also frankly, they have form for being overly conservative in their estimations.
fjf1085@reddit
I don’t know I think 8.5 was never particularly plausible. We’d have had to burn more coal than exists if I remember correctly and I wish they’d have stopped using it sooner. Look I’m not downplaying climate change. The one I think it’s closer, SSP2, to still has a range of like 2.7C to 3.9C though recent studies I’ve seen have shown warming is more likely to be 2.6C when you take into account actually implemented policies not pledges or anything. 2.6C is still catastrophic but not the 5C or more 8.5 was predicting. I’m 40 and I remember being in college getting my environmental science degree and being told the expected climate change was 4-6C.
The point I’m trying to make is I think we’ve moved the needle, unfortunately it’s not nearly enough. I don’t think we’ll go extinct like people were predicting 20 years ago but our civilization is still in dire straights at even 2.6C of warming. Maybe this is the wrong sub for this but to me it makes more sense to try and be more realistic with predictions.
Though you’re right radiative forcing we’re seeing might actually be an understatement. I think things will become clearer over the next couple years where we’re tracking. I just think it’s probably closer to SSP2 right now than anything, though that could change. Had Trump not been reelected it might have tracked lower sooner but I think that ship has sailed despite rapid renewable and EV adoption, it would have to be way faster than this. So yeah. I guess we’ll see where we end up I just don’t think it’s currently tracking to be *quite* as catastrophic as the video makes it out to be.
fjf1085@reddit
I don’t know I think 8.5 was never particularly plausible. We’d have had to burn more coal than exists if I remember correctly. Look I’m not downplaying climate change. The one I think it’s closer to still has a range of like 2.7C to 3.9C though recent studies I’ve seen have shown it’s more likely to be 2.6C when you take into account actually implemented policies not pledges or anything. 2.6C is still catastrophic but not the 5C or more 8.5 was predicting. I’m 40 and I remember being in college getting my environmental science degree and being told the expected climate change was 4-6C.
The point I’m trying to make is I think we’ve moved the needle, unfortunately it’s not nearly enough. I don’t think we’ll go extinct like people were predicting 20 years ago but our civilization is still in dire straights at even 2.6C of warming. Maybe this is the wrong sub for this but to me it makes more sense to try and be more realistic with predictions.
Though you’re right radiative forcing we’re seeing might actually be an understatement. I think things will become clearer over the next couple years where we’re tracking. I just think it’s probably closer to SSP2 right now than anything. Had Trump not been reelected it might have tracked lower sooner but I think that ship has sailed despite rapid renewable and EV adoption, it would have to be way faster than this. So yeah. I guess we’ll see.
ParisShades@reddit
I clocked this a few years ago.
Vegetaman916@reddit
I, too, "clocked" this a few years ago.
No one listens.
TernarySquare0123@reddit
rip u\/mBdowd
Bandits101@reddit
Sure, I WAS “pissed off” but I’ve long moved on from that stage. A greater knowledge of Earth’s systems brings a deepening dread and an elimination of hope.
The problem is that was/it’s mistakenly assumed that limiting emissions would halt and reduce warming. That’s what scientists told us, it’s what was screamed at every climate change IPCC warning.
The IPCC wasn’t wrong but not making it absolutely clear that curbing emissions now, would not stop climate change in the future. That caused our thinking that it was a problem for the future, that WOULD be solved.
So here we are with a Net Zero dream, Wind turbines, solar panels and EV’s enabling BAU. Good times now but with all concern but NO responsibility for the future. The can gets kicked but the road is a dead end.
I’ve reached acceptance, I don’t lament what “could have been” because it really was impossible. Even if a traveller from the future came back and warned us, nothing would change.
Fearless-Try-261@reddit
Incredibly sensationalist intro, seems typical of YouTubers nowadays.. "I expect humans to go extinct by 2100" has no foundation in reality.
That said it's a decent intro summary of where we are today. The "you'll be pissed off" and "feel free to rage" tidbit reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/0O95kvMKPeQ
Obvious-Function-919@reddit
Same, I just hope for a few more snowy winters thats what makes me happy.
bizh_gki@reddit
Toward the end of it, turning the pressure on the individual to make eco-conscious choices to inspire community and ultimately pressure governments into changing policies is incredibly naive and insulting at this point. In the USA, police have become militarized, mass surveillance is real, and expecting action from government to disrupt organized action is to be expected. This is known to be so as many groups have been organizing for decades this way and have experienced the same result. Sitting high and mighty on a philosophy of reduce, reuse, recycle is just acting like consequences will never reach you as being socially conscious has no ultimate impact. People are exhausted after decades of making demands to have all these efforts deconstructed.
The only way to change behavior is to increase consequence. People consume less when the price is increased and people will fight you to avoid paying their fair share. This includes governments and organizations; they will fight those that rise to demand they pay their fair share. They are reading these comment threads searching for credible threats. The idea of coming together to reduce carbon emissions is a fever dream, perhaps pun intended.
I didn’t like this video.
Hayes4prez@reddit
IRockIntoMordor@reddit
Empty-Equipment9273@reddit
Only 2 more years left
New-Doctor9300@reddit
Prevention is impossible. Mitigation is the best case scenario.
Magnesium4YourHead@reddit
Me, preventing more humans with my tubal ligation...
Luda-baba@reddit
What fight?
uber_sweets@reddit
washes yogurt pot more aggressively
NyriasNeo@reddit
"Humanity has “lost the fight against climate change”."
Nope. This is under the erroneous assumption that humanity fought against climate change. The fact that "drill baby drill" won is pretty succinct evidence that humanity, at least a strong sub-population, did not give enough of a sh*t to fight, if they even believe it.
lavapig_love@reddit
There are 12 comments under this post but I'm not seeing any of them. OP, please provide a Submission Statement.
TheIrishWanderer@reddit
I think Reddit is messed up. I've been having similar issues with comments all morning.
-sussy-wussy-@reddit
Is it, though? It's always like that when shadowbanned users try to comment somewhere. They themselves aren't notified and can still see their own comments, but they won't once they log out or change accounts.
djspacebunny@reddit
For a few minutes a bit ago, comments wouldn't load at all.
-sussy-wussy-@reddit
A fight? We've been fighting it? It seems so half-arsed to me, all of it. It's directly at odds with what the owner class and the political elites want, and not just in the Capitalist West.
There's an absolutely insane degree of inertia in these things, and the constant proposals of surveillance are tightening the slip knot in our collective necks.
Dense-Muffin-3809@reddit
People are still in denial cause they expected to be saved like in their favorite Hollywood movie.
They can’t imagine a bad ending. That’s probably why we never took it seriously in the first place.
RandomBoomer@reddit
There is no "we" in human affairs. There's no one person or group in charge, who can direct our culture, society, infrastructure, and technologies in a specific direction with a common purpose.
So of course "we" didn't win.
Bill_Troamill@reddit
Ce message vous est donné par les énergies fossiles ! Abandonnez donc tout espoir, cédez au nihilisme, arrêtez de lutter vous avez perdu ! Merci pour votre attention !
gobi_1@reddit
Les personnes douées de raison arrivent à cette conclusion, pas besoin d'en faire un message des industries pétrolières.
redinator@reddit (OP)
great, another bot spazzing out and peaking french
CheerleaderOnDrugs@reddit
translation:
Seems collapse appropriate to moi.
Druu-@reddit
We really did have it all, didn’t we?
The3rdGodKing@reddit
If you are new here, just stick to collapse science than these types of videos. Most people are not stressing about it, and you can't control it by yourself. Better to stay positive.
Squawking_Macaw@reddit
There was a fight?
Dazzling_Dig4416@reddit
Humanity lost the fight against humanity.
We have Great Filtered ourselves.
WildFlemima@reddit
If you live in an area that is projected to hit fatal wet bulb temperatures, leave now. This summer will kill you. Leave however you can, in whatever way you can. Illegally if you have to. Get your plan z ready in case you can't leave.
If you are thinking about having kids, don't. The medical system will go soonish, decent care is already showing signs of absence. Pregnant people and babies need that medical system. You don't want to watch your kids die to fatal wet bulb. Even if you live somewhere that won't hit fatal wet bulb, there will be climate refugees and food shortage.
If you already have kids, start teaching them useful practical skills about potable water, local edible plants, local animals, how to passively cool a home or shelter. Learn useful practical skills yourself. If someone gave you a sheep, could you turn that sheep into food and clothing? Do you know first aid and cpr? Do you know how to make water potable?
If you are thinking about adopting a long lived pet, don't, unless it's a senior animal. Vet supply lines will collapse along with the human medical system.
Whocares1846@reddit
The "fight" isn't over, in the sense that it's now changed - it's now about building resilience for what is to come; setting up communities and systems that can rise out of the ashes, that can adapt to the new world.
The next 100 years will be interesting for sure. I'm confident humanity will endure, though civilization as we know it.. well. It certainly won't be the same.
I'm only going to be able to experience 40-50 of those next years (if I'm very lucky and insulin shortages don't cut off my life. If civilization totally collapses I've got a few years at best.) So I hope I can work on making the next generation a generation that can cope with change and have resilience and adaptability.
chesterforbes@reddit
On the plus side, a bunch of billionaires are richer than they’ve ever been
nullzeroerror@reddit
Yeah but the Dow hit 50,000 or something
Craigboy23@reddit
I don't get the point of these kinds of titles. If we've already lost, I won't spend 30 minutes watching a video about it since it's already too late.
eliquy@reddit
We're all going to die.
Like and subscribe!
Craigboy23@reddit
Perfect!
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
Is this the video with the wrong Carl Sagan quote...?
Oh yes, it is.
lavapig_love@reddit
Wrong quote?
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
Yeah I was talking about this with a friend the last time this was posted, and I even left a comment about this earlier.
It's only the first part of the quote that's actually from Carl Sagan.
The part that goes:
is not from Sagan. This is from an old article in the Salt Lake City Weekly, where a few better known collapse content creators were interviewed, and one of them referenced this famous Sagan quote, then added his own thoughts to it.
Here's the article: https://www.cityweekly.net/news/times-up-17298723
And here's the quote block which I assume the creator of this video mistakenly attributed to Sagan:
Eager_PurpleOverdose@reddit
I remember this already being posted here
StatementBot@reddit
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bunkdiggidy@reddit
You can't fight a war on two fronts; it was either this or Drugs. And we- wait, Drugs won too, shit...
old-legs-623@reddit
Humanity has lost the fight against the exhaust coming from its car ...
redinator@reddit (OP)
SS this post is relevant to /r/collapse because the poster talks about how we have lost the fight against climate change and are now very likely facing climate collapse
redinator@reddit (OP)
SS : this is relevant to collapse because it talks about the posters oppinion that we have lost the fight on climate change and are now facing likely climate collapse