What's the hardest plane yall have ever learned to fly?
Posted by mtnflyer1@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 249 comments
Mine would either be the metro or EMB120. The 120's systems were a bitch but learning to fly the metro made me grow a third nutsack and lose all my hair.
qzy123@reddit
Cessna 172. Subsequent planes have had a shallower learning curve.
Right-Suggestion-667@reddit
This man freight dawged!
Metro was insane haha. Loved it until I flew the 1900 and realized metro was a pos š
carsgobeepbeep@reddit
For the completely uninformed - what's so unique about the Metroliner? Genuinely curious.
BenSenior@reddit
Been flying the metro 7 years, love it
SanAntonioSewerpipe@reddit
Stockholm syndrome
lfgbrd@reddit
You take that back.
MiniTab@reddit
Same! Loved my time in the switch bitch though.
WollyPollyOlly@reddit
1900 is a fun one
Darrell456@reddit
Ditto!
JPAV8R@reddit
The Lr-jet series and the Lear 60.
Early Lears are unforgiving as hell. Everything happens fast and unpredictable. 20,30 series like that then the 55 was just an under powered hunk of workload.
Then they made a 60. Little baby wheels that canāt stop for $hit and a delta wing as short as your little ole Grammy. 135 numbers without the brake mod were abysmal.. 135 numbers with it were god awful.
In private jet aviation a lot of deference is given to aircraft size. I say not so for the lears.
Find me a Lear jet pilot who has been flying it for 10 years without dying and youāve found me a great pilot. Thatās a guy who stays ahead of the bird because if you fall behind it the bird bites you hard.
Adlerson@reddit
Came here to mention the 60. First type I ever got, came from instructing in 172s and Seminoles. Good ol' drinking from a firehose. š Flew it for 20 years though, made me a better pilot for having to be so far ahead of the plane.
DearKick@reddit
Back in the day when flying with a new pilot in the lear 24 it was customary to pull the transponder cb when reaching altitude, because you know theyāll bust it by over a thousand feet.
Seriously though, the performance was unreal and people forget that when they came out, the extreme majority of transitioning pilots were coming from propeller aircraft. Many many a lear pilots died.
CA_LAO@reddit
That's a full on exaggeration - you just turned the Mode C off lol. Almost a checklist item when departing with a low altitude restriction!
DearKick@reddit
Absolutely, especially with an initial climb rate above 10,000 fpm
JPAV8R@reddit
Yeah either you were good or dead.
For a long period 2005-2015 they looked at lears as beginner aircraft because or their size.
The crash in TEB was a direct result of it
DearKick@reddit
Yep, one of my clients almost bought one of the last lear 24s maybe 6 months ago. I told him go for it, one of my favorites. Deal fell through but I felt like it was going to be the good old days for a while!
JPAV8R@reddit
I mean. I get why you wanted it but. Itās good to see the owner had enough reason to know itās not the plane for themā¦
Unless they owned a DeLoran
DearKick@reddit
It was a good airplane for the price, theyāre almost worthless these days and with no engine mspās you can run them extremely cheap. We manage another airplane for him so it would have been a second, so when it had an engine event the airplane would be parted out without worries.
UNDR08@reddit
The Lear 60 was a handful And I have no interest in ever going back to it. Honestly Iād rather work as greeter at Walmart before I fly one of those again.
JPAV8R@reddit
The 69 was so much.
Leaving Teterboro it was 2 clicks and an inch on the thrust levers to not overspeed the gear or bust the low level level off on the Rudy departure.
Everything on the 60 felt violent
lisper@reddit
C182RG. Sooooo nose heavy. Keeping that thing from porpoising is a serious upper-body workout.
N6065L@reddit
Some clicks of upward trim right before touchdown should help you there. Worked for me in the C206
lisper@reddit
Yeah, I tried that. Problem is that on a go-around you then have to do a one-handed push-up to avoid a power-on stall.
SSMDive@reddit
Opinion: You donāt HAVE to use full power for the initiation of a GA. You have to use enough to stop the landing, start climbing, and clear any obstacles. Ā
In the 208 (Supervan) I fly if you are trimmed for landing and give it the beans to GA you will be unable to stop the nose from rising to a critical AoA. So you add enough power to stop the landing, start a climbing and avoid any obstacles and then you trim out the elevator and then add all the available power. This takes just seconds to do. Ā Ā
You could also firewall it (TQ limit) and immediately start the down trim. Bonus if you have electric trim and you can do it while adding power.Ā
Kinda like how flaps can be a two part process. Power, some flaps, gear, the rest of the flaps. (Some aircraft are not going to climb with full flaps, so you have to get the flaps up to get a positive rate of climb before you bring the gear up).Ā
lisper@reddit
Or you could do what I did and start flying a Cirrus instead ;-)
Bob_Loblaw_Law_Bomb@reddit
Sopwith Camel. Too much power
p3p3l3pew@reddit
The metro liner landing required all hands and feet dancing at the same time. Quite a handful but really fun!
Peacewind152@reddit
I'm still a baby pilot at 500 hours, but so far the DHC-1 Chipmunk was quite the challenge. It was my first tailwheel aircraft. You really do need 3 hands to control the thing effectively whenever in contact with the planet.
GAU8Avenger@reddit
G200 was such a piece. It had a standup cabin, but they added 15k to the gross weight and didn't do much to the wing, so you were seeing 737 speeds on approach. It also had boots instead of a hot wing which wasn't too bad but that was my first boot experience in actual icing. Because the wings were so small there was a large fuel tank behind the aft lav, in addition to four or 6 other tanks (I forget how many) scattered in the wings and fuselage. The rudder wasn't hydraulic but used bleed air boost (I think?) which was weird as shit. The brakes also never grabbed evenly so before you know it you'd be off centerline and had to be ready to correct. At max weight it couldn't do a transcon out of TEB because of one of the climb segments so you often had to fuel stop halfway through. I was glad to get off that plane after a few months
SSMDive@reddit
Pitts. Bought the plane before I had ever landed an S2. Had about 200 hours in a 7ECA and everyone said the S1S was my next step up.Ā
About three hours into training in the front seat of an S2A and I felt I had made a HUGE mistake and that Iāll never be able to land a Pitts. The issue is you simply cannot see in front of you. The engine blocks your forward view. So you have to look out the sides, but the S2 in the front seat and the S1 the wings are directly below you, so you can see out the sides very much either. You get a little triangle of sight above the lower wing and to the side of the cowl.Ā
About hour 4 or 5 I pause on the flare and the CFI who is one of the best CFIās I have ever met calmly asks āWhatās wrong?ā I tell him I canāt see the runway and he replies āIs it to the left of you?ā No. āIs it to the right of you?ā No. āThen you are over it.ā At that second we touched down and I realized Iām never going to see what I want so quit trying. Just take what you can get and build the environment in my head and continue. āLanding using the forceā.Ā
After that, it was pretty easy and in less than another hour I was ready to solo. Ā
Still that first TO without adult supervision to help me was something. And that S1S with the same HP as the S2A and without the extra weight was amazing!Ā
amatt12@reddit
Q400, loved it, but aspects of that aircraft were insane i.e. 2 degrees between approach attitude and tail strike.
The systems were also atrocious and spectacularly unreliable.
fgflyer@reddit
I need not break out the Q400 copypasta, then. š
Psc0905@reddit
Congratulations on picking a great big fucking turd to fly! Make no mistake, the Q400 is just a god awful airplane. I think what I hate most about it is the air conditioning - When the bleeds aren't sending smoke from burning oil into the cabin (this is an alarmingly regular occurrence), the ACMs simply do a terrible job regulating the temperature in automatic mode, and if you put them in manual, moving the knob the width of a hair will roast you or freeze you. Every time you change power settings down in the 10-40% torque range the bleeds change from 2.2 - 2.7 - 3.0 making the airflow erratic and noisy and very distracting and very very fucking irritating. Also, if you shut the airplane down without the pack knobs in the 12 o'clock position, wherever you left them will become the new "12 o'clock" next time you turn them on. Obviously this is a huge fucking annoyance and it usually requires you to completely shut off the packs to reset the ECS, which unless you want to lose pressurization, you had better do on the ground and if you forget, have fun being either freezing or sweltering for the whole flight. My second least favorite part of this POS is the brakes... Holy. Shit. Stopping this airplane is frustrating at best from the cockpit, and downright traumatizing as a passenger. Don't make the mistake of assuming that like other airplanes, when you apply a normal amount of pressure to the tops of the pedals, something will happen. This is not the case. Instead, you will have to use almost the ENTIRE WEIGHT OF YOUR BODY on the pedals, and then wait several seconds, and then you will feel yourself slowing. This, of course, is just to slow down from a normal 15-20kt taxi, so plan ahead when you're taxiing. In order to slow down on landing, you will need to apply the brakes immediately; whatever you do, don't wait until you need them because they need to heat up in order to do anything (I am aware that this is the case with most airplanes with carbon brakes, but the q400's brakes are an EXTRA special case). So after applying a significant amount of pressure, that you are hoping isn't enough to lock them up, you will wait several seconds and feel no deceleration due to the brakes. You will then apply a tiny bit more pressure, only to find that that was WAY TOO MUCH AND NOW THEY ARE GRABBING ASYMMETRICALLY AND YOU ARE LURCHING BACK AND FORTH AND EVERYONE IN THE BACK IS PULLING THEIR CRUSHED FACES OUT OF THE SEATBACKS IN FRONT OF THEM AND LOOKING AROUND AT THE OTHERS, SILENTLY BUT FRANTICALLY EXCHANGING "oh my god holy shitfuck is this normal or are we mere seconds away from perishing in a smoldering heap?" GLANCES and then it's finally over and you can breathe again. After a few months on the airplane I realized that I had no idea how to give a braking action report anymore because it is literally "poor" every single time a Q400 lands, so now I just say fair every time I'm asked because that's the most conservative thing to do and it's probably actually at least fair to every other transport category aircraft that has ever been produced. The logic in the cockpit layout is really shitty too... I'm sure you've noticed that there is only ONE set of controls for TWO MFD's. Who the fuck thought of that, huh? Granted, most of the time there's no need to have the doors page and the fuel page up simultaneously, and it's a damn good thing because YOU FUCKING CAN'T unless you cycle through the pages in just the right way (think solving a rubix cube) because the DIPSHIT that designed this airplane was a lazy fucking cunt and only put one set of buttons on the pedestal. And what other airplane makes you specifically ask it to level off at the altitude you spun into the window? WHY THE FUCK ELSE DID I PUT THAT ALTITUDE THERE IF IT WASN'T BECAUSE I WANTED TO STOP THERE? There is NO reason for the ALT SEL button but at least if you're not a moron it's not a big deal. Oh and did you know that there isn't actually a yaw damper on this airplane? I know there is a button on the FGC to engage it but did you know that it's not actually connected to anything? Just kidding. I have been told that there is in fact a yaw damper on the Q400 and you can't use the autopilot if it doesn't work, but you sure could have fooled me because it doesn't do a FUCKING thing. You're gonna love swinging the tail back and forth trying to keep the brick centered Every. Single. Time. you change power or pitch. Most people just fly around uncoordinated and some people use differential power to keep it coordinated so they don't have to touch the EXTREMELY sensitive rudder pedals/trim, but your airline may not like that because supposedly splitting the power like that wreaks havoc on the ANVS and makes it fail a lot faster. This thing is awful in turbulence. And guess what? Since you can't go above FL250, you are gonna feel all of it hahahaha. And don't even think about asking how the ride ahead is, because nobody else is flying at your altitude! Don't keep your feet on the floor when it gets bumpy because as soon as you hit a nasty one they will fly up and you will bust the fuck out of your shins on the sharp lower edge of the panel. The corners of the pedestal are sharp too, so especially watch out for your knee by the FMS because that fucking hurts too if you bump it. Guess what else? Probably the very same STUPID DIPSHIT that designed the rest of the cockpit thought it'd be really smart to house the windshield wipers horizontally, instead of vertically like every other fucking airplane. So now, thanks to that ASSCLOWN, you get to hear every single knot of wind over the wiper blades and this airplane is loud as shit to begin with (admit it: you thought the Q stood for quiet didn't you. It's ok, I thought so too. It actually stands for "quite motherfucking loud still despite what we've told you so bring a good headset bitch"). Luckily, you can park them vertically with the wiper control but this is officially "frowned upon" at my airline so some crews may not feel "comfortable" doing it. I feel much more uncomfortable listening to the torrent of wind hitting the blades than breaking a silly rule that nobody will ever find out about, but some people are different. Oh, and the clamshell door. Nothing quite like sitting around not getting paid for 10 minutes after you hand out the paperwork because you're waiting for the rampers to move the jet bridge so you can close the door. On the other hand, if you want to make up that 10 minutes and more, just start the APU with the batteries off. Then you can sit for 20min- a half hour with the door closed waiting for the loads to come down to .10. Want to cancel a flight and go home? Spin the baro knob all the way down as far as it will go. That will break the CPC for some reason and make it show "FAULT." That's a gamble though because you don't want them to just end up deferring the CPC and making you do it yourself in manual mode because that's a great big nuisance. Good luck and enjoy missing commute after commute because these things are held together by spit!
oioioifuckingoi@reddit
I will never not stop to read this quality posting and give it the upvote it deserves. I salute the OP for their contribution to Reddit aviation lore.
catsby90bbn@reddit
I was only familiar with the crj200 copy pasta; but this is nothing short of amazing
flyfallridesail417@reddit
No lies were told. Q400 is also my answerā¦and I flew MD88s, and Navajos single pilot in hard IFR w/ no autopilot or GPS.
vARROWHEAD@reddit
The author commented above you
Silly_Rub_6304@reddit
Is that the one with every braking action report being "poor" because the brakes suck so much?
Bluzzard@reddit
How do you flare with 2 degrees?
amatt12@reddit
You donāt, you add power and hope for the best.
gromm93@reddit
And here, I heard that was the -8.
Exos9@reddit
The thing with the Q400 is, no matter how hard you study to learn it, you forget everything when you get in the sim and whack your head on the HUD casing, giving yourself a concussion at the same time
Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit
Sounds like an epic way for work mans comp!!!!
amatt12@reddit
Ours didnāt even have two FMCs never mind a HUD
IthacanPenny@reddit
Itās bananas that sky king barrel rolled oneā¦
jetdriver13@reddit
Q400 is a long boi
stygarfield@reddit
Gets a shortcut on the star with a new-ish captain.
'hey boss, want to throw it in VS first?'
'nah we good '
'mmmkay'
FMS computes we need like 8000fpm down to make the next restriction and stuffs the nose down.
/Aft FA starts to float/
amatt12@reddit
What about ALTSEL who on earth designed that system?!
p1dfw@reddit
C-17. Backside flying is a non-intuitive, weird concept.
korb1ndallas@reddit
What is backside flying?
p1dfw@reddit
āThe C-17 operates on the "backside" of the power curve (or region of reversed command) during slow-speed flight and final approach. In this regime, pitch controls the aircraft's airspeed, while engine thrust dictates your rate of descent or altitude, requiring pilots to add power to arrest a sink rate.ā
Easier to c/p than type it all out. š
_VNAV_PTH_@reddit
Basically the same as most pistons
sunfishtommy@reddit
Yea even transport category airliners can act like this.
If you start to get the sink on short final, pulling harder is not going to help if you don't also give it some power.
p1dfw@reddit
Couldnāt tell ya. š¤·š»āāļø
LateralThinkerer@reddit
https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aerodynamics/the-aerodynamics-of-slow-flight/
sashin_gopaul@reddit
Flying on the wrong side of the power curve.
hdecece@reddit
I'm guessing they mean backside of the powe curve. Region of reversed command.
mkosmo@reddit
What's different about being on the backside when flying the C17?
Qbert2030@reddit
Holly badass-ery aura
flylowslow@reddit
SAAB SF340
PunkerTFC@reddit
Twin Seabee
Angel_sexytropics@reddit
the plane of life
Such_Ad6350@reddit
The hardest plane/maneuver I have flown was⦠wheel landing a champ. Wtf I could never get it right. Something about the gear?
This includes all of my piston flying, glider flying, IFR, etc. I donāt know what my problem was with the champ.
l8nightbusdrivr@reddit
The C-130E/H. Even though we had a flight engineer, the pilots were expected to have deep knowledge of the complicated systems. Also, we had about 85 pages of emergency procedures in the -1 and were expected to be able to regurgitate them at the deep familiarity level during an EPE. Add to that all the tactical stuff we had to knowā¦like air drop, assault airstrip ops, low level day/night/nvg, etc. It was a multiple year uphill climb.
Ok-Refrigerator-9278@reddit
C130 is SO MUCH shit to know. Spoiled being a J model but damn. Other heavy bubbas don't have to know jack shit comparatively
l8nightbusdrivr@reddit
I also flew the C-130J. I was not a huge fan of it. Too much unnecessary technology trying to replace too many necessary crew members.
I could actually fly it better with the HUD up after an entire career on the E/H.
Ok-Refrigerator-9278@reddit
All our legacy guys fought the HUD at first, haha
l8nightbusdrivr@reddit
Funny thing is, now that Iām on the 57/67 type, I could characterize it with a LOTR reference. āMy precious!ā
The 57/67 needs a HUD. Iāll never be convinced the C-130J does.
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
C-17 guys think they do, it's hilarious.
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
Flew C-130E/H for like 10 years, that airplane would kill you in a hurry if you didn't know what you were doing. Best years/flying of my life though.
becuziwasinverted@reddit
What are some really interesting ways it could kill you that would seem silly to non C130 drivers
l8nightbusdrivr@reddit
The five most dangerous things on a C-130ā¦.
1. Prop 1
2. Prop 2
3. Prop 3
4. Prop 4
5. Bleed air
The prop and reduction gearbox would kill you quickly and with prejudice if you didnāt have the right answer or took too long to think.
The bleed air system had several ways to run away with itself, and not all of them were detectable before they were dire situations. It could literally melt its own wing spar in half.
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
Same reason the everyone else is saying the metroliners will kill you. Super torquey, roll you over under Vmca props, super complicated systems, 6 people on a crew (2 pilots, egineer and nav, 2 loads) means your CRM and checklists must be pristine so everyone can be on the same sheet of music. I think we were allowed to get as close as 500 feet on NVGs to other planes in a 4 ship, I've been out of it for close to 4 years now, there was just a lot to know.
becuziwasinverted@reddit
After you left, did your regain the brain capacity that was taken up by C130 procedures ?
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
Not really, got a new job at a new airline and went to the C-17 at the same time, 777 school in a month at the airline and not getting any younger. The learning and keep up is constant, though I've been told the transition from 737 to 777 easy considering a Boeing is a Boeing and I've already done "long haul" and oceanic with USAF, so nothing new there.
mountainbrew46@reddit
Similar experience in the C-5 regarding the relationship with systems and the flight engineer. We have to have an in-depth knowledge of systems but it still feels like a drop in the bucket compared to what theyāre expected to know.
Replace all your tactical knowledge with intertheater knowledge like oceanic procedures, etc. Not that theyāre particularly difficult⦠theyāre just as routine for airline bois but having to have that knowledge and airmanship as a 600 hour aircraft commander is daunting.
Also operating a massive airplane at some random class D airport with a little national guard base attached⦠that presents challenges too.
becuziwasinverted@reddit
You ever fly that bad boy to Airshow London ?
mountainbrew46@reddit
Not personally but we have flown in for that airshow, yeah
becuziwasinverted@reddit
Oh yeah! Iāve seen yas! I just figured with so few airframes, there must be a good chance you actually flew that exact bird!
How long do you think sheāll keep flying ? Nothing has that hauling capability so probably pretty long eh ?
HotRecommendation283@reddit
Herc pilots are awesome, such a neat bird
l8nightbusdrivr@reddit
We are all deaf af. Even with David Clarks or a skid lid on my entire career, I canāt hear worth a damn anymore.
But I kick ass at V1 cuts.
Ok-Refrigerator-9278@reddit
WHAT DID YOU SAY
EagleWings19@reddit
V-22. The whole airplane helicopter and in between thing all being controlled by my thumb was a wild ride for the first few flights
ImpossibleLadder3059@reddit
I'm kinda jealous... I've only ever flown easy aircraft...
mrdickhead@reddit
Anyone else wondering what made him grow a second nutsack?
LikenSlayer@reddit
F35B hands down.
Because of lift fan limitations and engine blade fatigue. Along with the horrible software architecture that leads to lots of failures.
stud100spray@reddit
This is crazy and to me because the only word Iād use to describe flying the C would be āeasyāā¦
Obviously a different ball game flying around the boat and actually fighting the jet, but cross country? Short of the avionics being worse than a Garmin in a Cessna, the jet flies itself haha
Now, flying standby instrument approaches in the Goshawk, that was humblingā¦
becuziwasinverted@reddit
Shitload of types - what was your career path ?
LikenSlayer@reddit
Platoon Leader class, most types for forced on me. Didn't really get to select. Besides G550, flew that for my buddy that owned his own company.
My desired track in military was jets. So I was stoked when I found out. I didn't want turbopop š got out, went airlines (still).
Total_Midwit_Death@reddit
I had an opportunity to fly the harrier sim while I was working at a mag... hovering is even harder than it looks!
syntheticFLOPS@reddit
Flying that thing in VTOL mode around the boat had to be so cool. Scary. But cool.
LikenSlayer@reddit
Yes to both. Landing on a moving target thats constantly moving into the wind takes great practice. Didn't really have a choice in which one I was gonna fly. Seeing how the Bravo was assigned to Marine Corps. Wouldn't have been my 1st choice š¤£
Kemerd@reddit
Well shoot, Iām sure doing short field in GA is a cake walk because of that! Lol
Kemerd@reddit
Iām no military pilot but just looking at all those buttons gives me ~~anxiety~~ stress (sorry I forgot that word is banned by FAA)
LikenSlayer@reddit
Not that many. Seeing how they merged them all into the 20inch panel. But you dam sure better know your systems
goodtimtim@reddit
thereās a sr-71 pilot lurking here somewhere, too modest to comment
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
Thus far, the Lake flying boat.Ā
Pusher top mounted prop means adding power and the nose goes down, pull power and nose goes up.Ā
Plus, you know, it's a boat that flies.Ā
jemenake@reddit
I thought that was a fun aspect of the Lake. Right after I got my ASES from Sheble, I booked a checkout in the Lake specifically because I wanted to try an amphib and I knew the top-mounted prop was going to be a fun effect. The controls on the roof were also a hoot.
I guess I wouldnāt regard it as āhardā because I knew that behavior was inherent in the design. I knew it was going to pitch down during power up, so Iād just add back pressure as Iād add power (just like one adjusts elevator when adjusting flaps). Iād call an aircraft ādifficultā if it tended to do truly unexpected things or was always trying to get away from you.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
I agree, I didnāt struggle with it at all but out of all the aircraft Iāve flown thus far (16), excluding the two helis, it took was the hardest in requiring your utmost attention. Which included: differential turning, retract, water rudder, water landing, high speed water step taxis, ceiling controls, and the pusher pylon prop.
A fun fun plane.
UmbraNocti@reddit
Which makes it 2/3 of the things cheaper to rent than buy... Yet I still want one one day...
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
I personally really dislike that old idiom. Good luck trying to rent a seaplane haha!
jmonty42@reddit
BEFA in the Seattle area has one to rent. I just joined last year, now I've got to get my ASES rating at Kenmore!
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
That is pretty awesome! There was one in San Diego with the big rental fleet until shortly after it was brought in. Somebody sank it in the lake and that was that.
UmbraNocti@reddit
well as you see from my profile picture I don't exactly follow that idiom myself. Wish you could rent a seaplane though. A guy near me does seaplane training and tours with an icon A5. That's about the closest thing in my parts.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
Ha! Love it. Fair windsĀ
GuaranteeUnhappy3342@reddit
Yeahā¦I used one for the complex part of the CFI ride. Ā The Fed called for a go-around on very short finial. Ā Almost 50 years later I still donāt understand how we (I) avoided hitting the runway with the nose wheel. Ā The Fed and I agreed not to that again. Ā I did pass! Ā Onlookers were very impressed! Ā
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
Ha! Epic checkride plane option.Ā
You can imagine how people can get in trouble low on the water and the nose pitches down.... š«
SerDuckOfPNW@reddit
Many years ago I thought about buying one of these. Such a cool looking plane.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
Have you seen the gooey duck project up there in the pnw. I'm probably spelling that wrong but my text-to-speech is translating it as such.Ā
It's basically a composite hull version of a Grumman twin engine and they named it after pnw waterfowl name the gooey duck
Perfect_Big_5907@reddit
The death tube !
Archon_POM@reddit
Metro?
radioref@reddit
San Antonio Sewer Pipe!
Perfect_Big_5907@reddit
oh yeah forget that
Khantahr@reddit
Whistling Shitcan of Death!
offgrid-wfh955@reddit
Thatās a new one š
CommuterType@reddit
L-1011
PlaneShenaniganz@reddit
Why?
hartzonfire@reddit
Wow
anon__a__mouse__@reddit
flex
riptrixie@reddit
C172m š only plane I have ever flown so far so technically counts as the hardest
PlaneShenaniganz@reddit
Itās an entirely different kind of flying, altogether!
icanfly_impilot@reddit
The hardest time I had learning an aircraft was the E-145. Not because it was a particularly difficult aircraft (I eventually knew that thing inside and out), but because it was my first transport category aircraft with a significant burden placed on distance learning, then in person learning with a brand new, fairly incompetent ground instructor, in the pre-aqp 121 environment and a training Centre known for failing students on gotchas and minutiae.
The 737 is a more complex aircraft but has been easier to learn due to a better training environment.
Bluzzard@reddit
GoJet?
w8w8@reddit
737 so easy to learn that even Nathan Fielder did it
andrewrbat@reddit
Same. I went through with aqp and training still sucked. It was mostly sim instructors that never flew the 145, or ones who flew it for another airline years ago. Many gave conflicting advice.
Mech_145@reddit
As a mechanic we had the same experience with the 145. instructor, manuals, mechanics from other airlines, the actual aircraft. It would be four different stories.
JewofTVC1986@reddit
This guy is a member of the Fraternal Order of the Eagle
ImAFlyingGorilla@reddit
One of us! One of us!
icanfly_impilot@reddit
Iāve survived the ABCs
Kst8av8tr@reddit
Same
JewofTVC1986@reddit
Same
Goop290@reddit
I dont get this and would like to because there is s FoE building a block away from my house. I cannot figure out what it is besides a pay to enter bar.
andrewrbat@reddit
Lol same.
XCSkies@reddit
Emb-120 ended my flying career before it started. Geared it up at the gate without ever getting into the cockpit.
Ok_Big_3300@reddit
What does āgeared it up at the gateā mean ? Maybe im tired and reading it wrong š¤£
XCSkies@reddit
There is no squat switch.
rckid13@reddit
Were you the PSP mechanic? That one is still sitting on the ramp as a fire trainer
SerDuckOfPNW@reddit
Ever tried a 227-Heavy?
Everything about Metros and Merlins is difficult, but the 227 Heavy is a special kind of shitty
Right-Suggestion-667@reddit
Hahahah the heavy vs light that refreshed a memory in my brain š the 16000 fully loaded and having to use the awi oof
SerDuckOfPNW@reddit
Yeah, as long as it worked
fgflyer@reddit
Cessna 421. That plane is single-handedly the most complex GA aircraft I have ever flown (albeit not by myself). And this is coming from someone who owns and flies a Cessna 340A. There are so many systems to manage, some very temperamental geared turbocharged engines, unforgiving engine-out behavior, crazy high maintenance costs, and a lot of little idiosyncrasies in general. That plane has to be flown exactly by the book, especially if you want the engines to reach anywhere near TBO. But itās a good plane as far as handling qualities go.
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Jealous of your 340A. That was going to be my answer since I've never flown a 421. We had the wonky five-tank configuration combined with a shitty panel... It was busy.
RestaurantSad4115@reddit
Was looking for this⦠the 421 is a bitch to slowdown when they keep you high. The amount of times youāre in trail of a 737 or 320 and you have to slow down because your cooking behind them is crazy. We had 8 pilots flying 4 different 421s and even if everyone flys it by the book there are still differences person to person. Itās not a matter of if youāre going to have engine issues and or a cracked case itās a matter of when. Miss flying it tho
fgflyer@reddit
The one I flew with a handful of times had the speedbrake STC, which was an absolute godsend in the descent. My 340A doesnāt have that and itās a bitch to slow down⦠I could have it installed for 25 grand including labor, but why would I do that when I could put that money towards other more necessary things šš
equal2infinity@reddit
How do you like the 340? Is it a mx hog?
fgflyer@reddit
It is, for sure. Staying on top of maintenance and all of the recurrent ADs can be a pain. But itās a great aircraft to fly and a fantastic traveling machine. 200+ knots TAS, pressurized, in the flight levels is always nice.
CaptainMcTiti@reddit
I second the 421! I have two type ratings and flown several GA airplanes, and the 421 can be a HANDFUL.
Wallphotography@reddit
Pa28. Because I had no idea what the fuck I was doing
rckid13@reddit
I found going from the PA28 to the Seminole harder because I still had no idea what I was doing but now I had two engines and everything went faster.
rlbmxer27@reddit
Brasilia systems sucked!!
rckid13@reddit
I especially liked the day of systems where they told us that both low oil pressure and high oil pressure would cause a prop overspeed because the prop governor works by having oil opposing oil. No matter which way the oil goes wrong it overspeeds. Then they say don't worry the manual feather should reverse that, but here are a bunch of historic crashes where that also failed and people died.
Mountain-Cut-7708@reddit
Pre-mod Mod Modified Post-mod
Something about degrees of blade angle for auto-feather, manual feather, electric feather, and prop hub over-speed protections. And donāt forget to pre-flight and post-flight the flight-idle-stop solenoid circuit breaker, else you šµ
Slightly_Moist_Toast@reddit
172ā¦..K model /s
But the way some 172S model students act when you show them anything not fuel injected or carb heat is quite hilarious lol
StormyWeather15@reddit
Wait.. whatās the specialness about a K model?
Slightly_Moist_Toast@reddit
Just the model I have experience with and transitioning students from our S model to the K was always funny
ckhaulaway@reddit
T-38c talon. Old and twitchy with a super high final speed. Formation landings were super satisfying once you got the hang of it though.
Laxboarderchill@reddit
I raise you A-model
ckhaulaway@reddit
And you will hear absolutely no arguments from me sir, but is it harder than landing the Dragon Lady?
Laxboarderchill@reddit
Haha, theyāre each challenging in their own ways! Itās like asking whatās more difficultā¦.a missile or a kite
korb1ndallas@reddit
Got my multi in a King Air C90. I was so far behind the airplane on my first takeoff, I forgot to retract the gear around the pattern. The speeds, the systems, the procedures, it was an entirely different type of flying, altogether.
FrequentFlyer96@reddit
Yeah I feel this. I went from G1000 Archers to a C90 steam gauge panel. Not a particularly difficulty aircraft but holy shit it took a few lessons ha
korb1ndallas@reddit
This was the mid 90s, so the Mooney M20J i got my instrument and commercial in was all steam gauge. The King Air, with the exception of the EHSI was all steam gauge as well.
Pilot0160@reddit
It was an entirely different type of flying
cronus89@reddit
It was an entirely different type of flying
cottonheadedninnymug@reddit
It was an entirely different type of flying
FlyByPC@reddit
It was an entirely different type of flying!
Mao_Kwikowski@reddit
U-2
sir_crapalot@reddit
And an Expanse fan at that! Respect.
Laxboarderchill@reddit
Mid 3rd rewatch!
Conscious-Source-438@reddit
This man does sci-fi right
NefariousnessHefty71@reddit
Any advice for a wannabe U-2 guy (assuming it is still around in 3 years)?
becuziwasinverted@reddit
The opposite advice of every other type
Do NOT stay hydrated
Laxboarderchill@reddit
No lies detected
Laxboarderchill@reddit
Lmao, we always meet on posts like OPās
Mao_Kwikowski@reddit
š«”āļø
Rickenbacker69@reddit
Hey, I fly motor gliders too! š
RevMagnum@reddit
Wohoo, we have a winner!
People hastily scrollin' down the types gonna go; wait what?! :D
rmy26@reddit
Wait.... You started with two nutsacks?
mtnflyer1@reddit (OP)
Nope
GuaranteeUnhappy3342@reddit
I flew Metro II years before the 120. Ā I thought it needed more wing and more HP. Ā Kind of fun to fly but such things as accelerateā¦SLOW was scary. Ā Going off the end of the runway at 35 mph! Ā Did like the way the Metro gave you reverse compared to the PT-6.
I didnāt think the 120 was all that bad. Ā But Iād flown the Metro, Bandit and Shorts 360 before it. Ā To be honest it was the first thing I flew that had an auto pilot. Ā I mean that was cool!! Ā However I came to think that the Brasilia wanted to kill me more than most other things I had flown.
ywgflyer@reddit
I suspect we probably worked at the same place. Green tail, lots of Metros, company shares a name with a certain highway that encircles a city in Canada?
The "Metro II" part sort of clued me in, I have something like 3000 hours in that fine piece of engineering.
_Bemis@reddit
T-45
azbrewcrew@reddit
The Ocho
Public-Reaction732@reddit
Learned DC-8 FE systems by studying emergencies first and the studying backwards. 747 as FE was a no brainer new hire barfest.
J33v35@reddit
It was an unpressurized twin turboprop and that's all I will say about that.
ThunderboltDM@reddit
š Metroliner was an odd-duck for sure. Anyone that flew them Single Pilot has my sincere respect. A lot to manage up front.
GuaranteeUnhappy3342@reddit
You get a very sincere āAMEN BROTHER!ā here!
SerDuckOfPNW@reddit
I mentioned before, but Iāll say it againā¦the 227 heavy was a special kind of shitty.
I worked for a DoD courier operating 226, 227, and 227H. Leaky, noisy, sewer tubes!
pooter6969@reddit
The B-1. Flies like a dream but the systems were a nightmare. 4 engines, 4 primary hydraulic systems, 2 APUs, 8 fuel tanks, 5,000 lbs of defensive avionics hardware, 3 internal weapons bays, terrain following systems, the IBM computer from the space shuttle, and 100% manually swept wings that change both your CG and center of lift in the processā¦
People complain about maintenance troubleshooting timelines and I just chuckle to myself..
aFineMoose@reddit
Found Bush Hawk. Easy enough in the air. Kinda twitchy, but nothing crazy. Getting it off the water is a whole thing, though. Gross weight on a hot day? I had two miles of water and still almost hit trees.
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
Metro..it had no autopilot or flight director!! When I went to the majors Captains would say how come you fly instruments so wellā¦lol
Cadet_Cape@reddit
Turbo Commander was tricky to land at first, until I figured out the power brake/NWS on the toes. Taxied around for an hour and almost went off the runway on landing #2 otherwise a breeze and joy to fly imo.
Citation sov is easy to fly but I still can't figure out the landings. It's just too damn squishy. It never hits hard but I'm finding the trailing link to act more like a pogo stick than anything. Probably doesn't help that I've flown it only 4 hours in the last 3 months either.
usmcmech@reddit
Pitts S-1C
Nothing can really prepare you for how twitchy this thing can be on landing. It's single seat so training in the S2 only gives you a taste before you fly yours solo.
SpaceDave83@reddit
I got a healthy bit of time and training in a 2 seat Pitts S2B. Then I bought a single seat S1S. I was humbled.
Foxtech-Dynamix@reddit
Metroliner all the way. I love my 227s, but man can they bite.
Av8Surf@reddit
Learjet 25D. Unforgiving high performance jet. Altitude bust waiting to happen. Old school autopilot. Little automation. Critical wing. Climbs 5000 feet a minute. The 25 had pure jet engines. Would gusle gas down low. Fuel management was always on your mind. Never get slow in a Learjet or you were a lawn dart.
Desperate_Exercise13@reddit
B727 FE. Old school oral and checkride. Flows that are longer than a CVS receipt.
NecessaryLight2815@reddit
I flew to San Antonio Seer pipe and yes it was a wreck, but honestly the A350 was like learning to fly a space ship. Overwhelming, especially for a Boeing girl. Made it though.
minfremi@reddit
DC-3 and B-25 were a bitch to taxi.
TheBurningTankman@reddit
As a still low time pilot probably the Ercoupe?
The feeling of having no rudder pedals is more unsettling then liberating to me as im not sure how much I trust the 70yo calibration to not fail midair
Whoopity_Longjohn@reddit
first transport type always the toughest for me it was the dash 8-300. Moving up from there to the 737 and 757/767 was easier with the whole multi crew concept.
Nmiro1@reddit
The metro, or the SAAB 340. That thing has a weird mix of ancient and modern systems.
FO wants to know his ground speed? Too bad, thatās captain level info only.
The weather radar is just there for looks.
None of the seats have any padding left, so after a 10hr day on min rest, your ass is as dead and youāve given yourself testicular torsion from bouncing around on your nuts all day.
And about 10 other idiosyncrasies that make the airplane⦠unique.
Pilot0160@reddit
King Air 200. I went to that after flying the E175 then Lineage 1000, A320/321, and Citation Latitude/Sovereign. What do you mean I have to manually control all of this sh*t? Lmao
Carre_Munuts@reddit
X-26 glider because it doesnāt have an engine
EliteEthos@reddit
You had two nutsacks before?
What makes the metro a bitch?
TraxenT-TR@reddit
Its more so the situations the metro puts you in. Got people doing hardcore mountainous, icing conditions, IMC, in the dark, freight runs- in a 6 pack twin turbine no autopilot death machine.
CaptKittyHawk@reddit
Dang no AP, did it at least hand fly nicely?
spike808@reddit
Current no AP metroliner pilot, no.
hitchhiketoantarctic@reddit
I dunnoā¦. Coming from a CASA 212, the metro flew like it was on rails!
Donāt get me wrong I still hated the metro, but that had nothing to do with how it flew.
CaptKittyHawk@reddit
...May God have mercy on your soul!
spike808@reddit
Thanks, I did 7.3 hours in the thing yesterday. I'm still recovering.
EliteEthos@reddit
Gotcha. Iāve heard they are run hard in cargo ops⦠sounds miserable.
taft@reddit
see the key lime flight 970. what a friggin beast though.
Longjumping_Panda531@reddit
T-38 by far
Full_Wind_1966@reddit
Honestly the caravan. Plane was easy enough to fly but with how shit the instruments in it are, those shit weather days really sucked. Every day was a nightmare in that pos
Professional_Low_646@reddit
Ok, this might be rather mild, but the DA-42. Could be someone at the place I chartered messed up the control wiring, but Iāve never flown an aircraft with such twitchy controls. Why can you deflect the stick 3 inches left and right when half an inch already puts you in a steep turn? Itās just a pain to fly by hand, plus the usual abysmal performance of twins in that size range - ugh. I actually had to adjust the fuel quantity once for a 1000m paved runway at 300ft MSL because it was hot. With two people on board. Just about the only things it has going for it is the G1000 and how relatively cheap it is because of the Diesel engines.
HorkBajirGafrash@reddit
What. The Da42 is one of the most responsive planes I ever flew. Someone must have messed up indeed. Aileron control was smooth as silk.
81Horse@reddit
The correct answer is the Jetstream 31, no yaw damp and no autopilot -- and twitchy AF.
3Green1974@reddit
The G550 has been the most challenging for me. Iād been flying bombardier products for about 9 years and had about 4000 hours in Challengers. The switchology was so completely different. Gulfstreamās idea of a dark cockpit is more of concept than a practice. I love it now, but at the time, and I hate to say this, Bombardier switchology just made more sense. It still does on the 604/605 and older Globals. Iām not sure about the newer planes though.
flyby2412@reddit
BE99. First time Iāve ever consistently bald spotted tires before. Then I learned to stop using the damn brakes
flyby2412@reddit
Ameriflight?
armspawn@reddit
AV-8B and itās not even remotely close.
ImAFlyingGorilla@reddit
Airplanes shouldnāt hover. š¤£
Fast-Government-4366@reddit
Iām not doing anything cool like that, but tailwheel was a bitch. Feel like I couldnāt do the basics lol
CaliAv8rix@reddit
Glad it wasn't just me. I was prepared for take offs and landings to take a little time to get used to, but I wasn't expecting a simple coordinated turn to take as much effort as it did.
spudsaredabomb@reddit
1600 and counting on the Metro, only got about 600 or so single pilot freight hours before people quitting demanded my multi crew return sacrifice. Rewarding when youāre getting it right and itāll kick you where the sun donāt shine when you get it wrong.
AWACS_Bandog@reddit
7AC... Turns out I like having more than the minimum of gauges and going off more than 'Vibes based' flying. Also having actual brakes is nice... Not those notational 'Will they wont they' that the Champ has.
I mean once I got over that, its a great ~~kite~~ airplane. just coming from anything to a step above what the Wright Flyer was is... Different
ndrulez15@reddit
T38. My brain at the time was not used to the speed at which things needed to happen. Very hard to land.
vanillanuttapped@reddit
Your first "real" airplane where you have to sit through a multi day systems course is the hardest. Mostly because nothing has prepared you for it up to that point. After you've done one type rating (or the equivalent) you figure out the method and realize all of these courses are about 20 percent too long.
CryOfTheWind@reddit
My first time doing an Airbus course instead of in house company training for the H145 was more like 50% too long. No reason to be there for over a month ish.
Sure it has way more systems on the computer side than I'd flown before but most of those were pretty simple to learn and added no new memory items. After a few approaches in the sim you can see how the thing was designed to be easy single pilot IFR and since we only use two crew it's even simpler.
To be fair my company did give me a ton of material to study ahead of time so much of the classes were relearning things we'd already studied but even coming in cold it was too long. Half the time on class room days we were out of material by 3pm and out early.
DearKick@reddit
Ive been in oodles of jet types now and various helicopters etc. etc. nothing to this day feels anything as tought as the OG Challenger 600s. They are just a handful.
sweptplanform@reddit
Is it the systems or just the handling that makes them so tough?
DearKick@reddit
The systems are over engineered, it was the first corporate AC airplane so not everything was figured out, and everything is all manual, but if you are good with early jet systems its alright.
Mostly I meant the handling, the fly by valve design is extremely tough to work in wind, and if you overwork it you can start to lose hydraulic authority and then you dont have very much to do, it flies and feels bigger than a 737 which is just tough for itās size class. The later 601ās and 604 onwards solved a lot of the issues and flew a lot better.
nstr55@reddit
Twin Otter at STOL speeds. Throttles on the overhead, NWS on the column, huge rudder, super sensitive especially with crosswinds. Airplane is a beast, but will break your heart quickly if not super careful.
SATSewerTube@reddit
Metroliner fo sho
BarrelDivesNSplitJs@reddit
I gotta second the Bro! I was coming from the 1900, and it was quite a transition. It was fun and rewarding though.
1039198468@reddit
Stearman on pavement.
TheAnonymousPilot@reddit
Summoning all the 135 cargo pilots in 3... 2... 1...
SavingsPirate4495@reddit
C401
Not so much the actual flying aspect, but instead, staying on top of all the systems.
C401's are equipped with Continental TSIO-520-E turbocharged engines. ANY airplane with turbocharged engines is a mild pain to fly IMO, as the engines require CONSTANT monitoring. Mainly, you must make sure you don't shock-cool the engines when descending. It takes prior planning to perform a power-on "cruise descent" and you "should" avoid descents that require the ol' "chop it and drop it" technique.
You do that, and you're just gonna increase the odds of cracked cylinder heads due to super cooling. Chu-CHING!!! $$$
The 401A I flew had JPI engine monitors installed and they were GREAT!! A necessary tool in ANY turbo-charged aircraft, IMHO.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
Commercial in a Navion will make you wonder why so many people these days struggle with power off 180s in 172s.Ā Ā
segelflugzeugdriver@reddit
I haven't found a hard piston single to fly yet, but my first solo landing in a Pitts I couldn't whistle my mouth was so dry
slacker130@reddit
MC-130H. Looks like a Herk, but it ends there.
Vladeath@reddit
AN-3
Geo87US@reddit
Obligatory Dash 8 rant
DASH 8 Copypasta
Darrell456@reddit
Metro for sure. Most fun Iāve ever had though. Single pilot cargo pilots uniteā
jman014@reddit
yer ma
nah honestly just a C-172; its been a challenge to learn bc juggling life and flying is tough.
Iām obvi a lot better at hour 55 but in general its been a rough and challenging road
Metallifan33@reddit
Beech 1900-D. It was lots of fun tho.
Bindolaf@reddit
The Concorde.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Mine would either be the metro or EMB120. The 120's systems were a bitch but learning to fly the metro made me grow a third nutsack and lose all my hair.
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