A Montenegrin & an Albanian painted fighting in a battle to the end

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Cudomudoviste@reddit

There is a problem here.

Unlike in other parts of Balkans, Montenegrins and Malisors, thaat is how Albanians bordering Montenegro call them self's, witch means people from the hills, They rarely ever got in conflict.

On the contrary, Marko Miljanov Popovic describes local costumes and codes to be similar even identical and cites numerous cases of mutual helps during wars with Turks.

Further more, when Skadar was taken, there was full respect for Albanian population. When Ulcin was under sidge, It fell with in one singel day becouse Albanians welcomed Montenegrins. Even today it is 80% Albanian population there. City is Montenegrin and they are all ok there. Have all the posible rights. Celebrate their flag day and all.

So this is has no context to it. What happened on Kosovo in 1915 to 1945 is something else. Karadjordjevic dynasty populated parts of that territory with Montenegrins loyal to Montenegrin Petrovic dynasty with double goal, Decrees the support for Petrovic dynasty by giving free land and houses on Kosovo , witch have been taken from native Albanians, and make them enemies instead of friends.

Rest is history,

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35BCx1405AD@reddit

Please say Shkodër. Or else it feels like a callback to original Chetnik plans for the country right after we got our independence. Maybe saying Skadar is automatic , which is not a problem, but when discussing this specific history, use the Albanian name.

And I don’t know what you mean with full respect because the 1912 massacres started there in Shkoder.

Again as for Ulqin, same thing.

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Cudomudoviste@reddit

i meant no disrespect , this is the way i call it. i Know Italian version also , Scutari. As far as i know there was no bad actions committed in 1912 war except against Turck's forces. And that was war. Not just that, over 20 Albanian flag carriers died in war on Montenegrin side.

Basically in the fog of war there can be isolated accidents and after heavy losses on booth side in that battle, it was to be expected even, but systematically, not at all. There where three sides in that conflict. After , Great Britan got involved, Blockaded port of Bar, and Montenegrins had to retreat from Skadar / Shkoder.

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35BCx1405AD@reddit

No, I’m talking about the purposeful invasion right after we had our rebellion against the Turks.

Right after that, Yugoslav, decided to go ahead and invade because they wanted ports. Because they considered us to be a bunch of Turkish monkeys.

This happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Albanians_in_the_Balkan_Wars.

This wasn’t a case of fog of war or anything like that. It was a deliberate attempt to genocide. With the serbs forgot, and their hour of insanity was that the north was home to many of our Catholics. Once they started burning down church after church after church, it started to become a problem the west couldn’t ignore.

The real problem is is that Yugoslavia never taught any of this, because why would they? First it only happened to fucking Albanians, and B) why make themselves look like insane psychopaths.

The division of half the country, the attempted genocide, and the Ranković era followed by how Milosovic ended things.

Can perfectly explain balkan politics to this day.

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amerikani@reddit

I would love to see a Montenegrin Kuci tribe member 23andMe

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riquelm@reddit

Too bad Ottomans incited us to fight one another...

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oKINGDANo@reddit

Read “High Albania” by Edith Durham. Before/during the Balkan wars, it was moreso King Nikola of Montenegro egging on the Albanian tribes to revolt against the Ottomans with the promise of financial and military support, only to turn on the tribesmen afterwards to grab land.

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toxic8R@reddit

You are referring to Durham who was heavily biased and are citing her as a credible source.

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oKINGDANo@reddit

Do you have an alternate third party primary source to compare to?

Durham was a writer, journalist, humanitarian, and wartime nurse before, during, and after the Balkan Wars. It’s like saying a similar person in Gaza is highly biased against Israel after witnessing terrible things done. Sure, but it doesn’t take away from their work.

Have you read High Albania (or her other works on the Balkans) and her accounting of what happened?

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obzovica@reddit

So was he successful in that, did Albanian tribes revolted against Ottomans successfuly?

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titsuphuh@reddit

This is the only correct answer

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rydolf_shabe@reddit

Im guessing the Albanian is the one on the right, but he seems to be wearing southern clothes. tf was he doing up north, or what was the Montenegrin doing down south. I need lore on this

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Kitsooos@reddit

That's your main issue here ? Wtf are the Arabs doing in the background ???

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Warm-Abrocoma3306@reddit

those are Albanians from Kosova in background maybe dukagjini region im not sure

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Kitsooos@reddit

Ah yeah. It's that that burial cloth that they wore on their heads right ? 3-4 meters long ?

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Warm-Abrocoma3306@reddit

yeah

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IllyrianSteel@reddit

I thought it was that epic duel between Serbian Prince Marko turned bounty hunter, and fierce Albanian bandit Musa Kesedžija (who has three hearts and in the third heart a mad snake sleeps)

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Substratas@reddit

Northern Albanians used to wear fustanella too, including those in Kosovo.

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hubbabubbameqershi@reddit

It was normal in Shkodër to wear fustanella in high end families

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Barbak86@reddit

My great grandfather had a fustanellë, and he lived in Kosovo (Gjakova).

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bleta_punetore@reddit

Shkodra has a version of folk costume with a long fustanella

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Fustanella sesht eksluzive e jugut ,ka pas dhe ne veri ,kam pash piktura te vjetra nga Shkodra qe ishin tgjith me fustanell.

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Albanian-shz@reddit (OP)

A lot of northerners also wore fustanellas, this is a painting from 1880 called Settling a Frontier Dispute" (also known as "Duel Between an Albanian and a Montenegrin"), created in 1880 by the Anglo-American illustrator,

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kyiv_star@reddit

not sure whos who here as that red cap is kinda uncommon if its albanian (qeleshe is traditionally white), where as the macedonian typical cap afaik is more squared

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Kitsooos@reddit

I don't see a fez. Looks like a tseber to me.

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Barbak86@reddit

Not in Shkodra. The people in the city had an allaturka fez and had the long fustanellas.

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Albanian-shz@reddit (OP)

This is a coloured version of the painting

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Barbak86@reddit

No it's not. The Albanian guy has a typical Shkodra attire, which includes the red fez

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Live-Method-219@reddit

Montenegrin is on the left for sure (based on the colors)

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prolapseenthusiat@reddit

Then it could also be a hercegovac. They have also the same colours. But the original is a colourless drawing.

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Live-Method-219@reddit

Yeah, that Dinaric region

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prolapseenthusiat@reddit

I mean even in my neighbouring villages they had that blue red colour (Hinterland Split).

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Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit

Montenegrin on the left.

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Adept-One-4632@reddit

When a rock at the border is claimed by two countries:

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DocOstbahn@reddit

neither an expert in melee combat, nor in gravitational pull or center of gravity and balancing, but, err, these two guys are both about to have a conversation with a guy THAT SPEAKS IN CAPITAL LETTERS

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PrestigiousBird2404@reddit

So just a regular tuesday in the balkans then?

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kodial79@reddit

This is not a fight! The montenegrin was merely sleepwalking. Don't you see that he has his eyes closed? His Albanian friend, catches him and stops him before he sleepwalks off the cliff.

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Fine-Ear-8103@reddit

Beautiful, “brother vs brother” would make a better title.

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Substratas@reddit

Very beautiful but very sad.

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krisvelde@reddit

Author?

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Deep-Ad4183@reddit

Who is who?

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Barbak86@reddit

Left Montenegrin, right Albanian. Background on the right, also Albanians.

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Deep-Ad4183@reddit

I thought Albanians could be recognized by their fez

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Barbak86@reddit

The dude in the right is a recognizable Albanian as well, because of the fustanella. The dude is wearing the traditional 19th century attire of Shkodra.

The guys in the background are mountaineers, from the border areas of Kosovo and Montenegro. They have a traditional Albanian Plis (Pilos in Greek, I think) but it's wrapped with the white cloth.