Marcos says Philippines would be involved in any Taiwan conflict
Posted by Advanced-Net-8119@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 54 comments
Posted by Advanced-Net-8119@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 54 comments
haggerton@reddit
Some things aren't meant to be said even if you think it.
This guy is literally a dumbass.
Congratulations on the free and avoidable diplomatic row, and on the free and avoidable justification for Beijing's SCS pre-emptive military presence.
Valensre@reddit
As if Beijing hasn't been routinely encroaching on other nations territory in the South China Sea before he said it.
haggerton@reddit
As if he needs to voice it for Beijing to know he thinks it.
Saying the quiet part out loud just means he can't pretend he doesn't think it anymore.
Valensre@reddit
What, do you think the Chinese military is quickly changing all its battle plans right now to account for this lol? I assure you it's changed nothing.
Besides if it's another factor in potentially dissuading Beijing from invading a sovereign nation and killing tens of thousands of people why does it matter?
haggerton@reddit
Do you have, like, ANY reading comprehension whatsoever?
The ONLY thing that changed was diplomatic. Beijing doesn't act on what other leaders say. What they say only has diplomatic weight.
Lolwut.
Valensre@reddit
So nothing changed.
You disagree? Why can't China station troops there right now?
haggerton@reddit
Philippines' diplomatic maneuver space changed. They can no longer claim "waaaaa big bad GYNA is bullying us despite us not threatening them with anything" when they proclaim out loud that they will intervene against Beijing in a Chinese civil war.
Same reason Ukraine can't station troops in the Donetsk People's Republic?
ary31415@reddit
> when they proclaim out loud that they will intervene against Beijing in a Chinese civil war.
Luckily, that isn't what they said though..? Did you read the quote? It says "Except that if there is actual confrontation, if there is conflict, just looking at the map, you can tell that the northern Philippines, at the very least, is going to be part of that or will feel the effects."
He didn't elaborate on how they might be involved, and certainly did not say they were going to intervene. Just that they'd be impacted, which is obvious.
Uuuuuii@reddit
Our news environment makes a mountain out of every little molehill it sees
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
Taiwan is sovreign in a way that Luhansk PR isn't. No one's under any illusion that LPR and DPR don't just take orders from the Kremlin.
Valensre@reddit
Why not? Who would they be trying to convince otherwise? You? The CCP?
Which for all it intents and purposes has been a sovereign part of Russia for years now... correct?
In both instances I'm not talking about word games the international community is playing, I'm talking about the objective reality in the ground.
Do you disagree?
haggerton@reddit
Credibility matters in diplomacy, despite your best attempts to denigrate it.
So your stance is "Russia isn't occupying any Ukrainian land right now"?
Valensre@reddit
You thought they were otherwise credible when it came to their grievances with China?
Doubt.
That the objective reality is that the seperatist zones are, for all intents and purposes, part of Russia. Again do you disagree?
sigmaluckynine@reddit
I'd stop here man. You don't seem to understand what the person is saying or how foreign policy works
Valensre@reddit
I was attempting to dig out what they're not saying, since I'm 99% sure they're a pro-russian and CCP campist.
But go ahead and enlighten me, I'll hear you out.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
Not sure I'm getting that sense. Basically I think you guys are speaking past each other based on a fundamental issue around is China good or bad (it's neither).
The person was just saying that the Philippines lost the moral ground because for this whole time it can and was Chinese aggression on the border issues. Saying they're supporting Taiwan regardless of context positions their entire situation along the Mainland/Taiwan issue. I.e. no longer just a defensive position.
As for mainland just waltzing in and making comparisons to Russia/Ukraine is kind of weird. Russia/Ukraine is fighting a war because Russia tried that. A Taiwan/China war will be devastating to the US and honestly we're not equipped in the West to fight China at the moment. We'd lose.
Outside of the odd comparison you're bringing up nonsequitors that have nothing to do with the main topic
Valensre@reddit
That's not what was said in the article.
LPR/DPR and Taiwan are both territories that aren't internationally recognized as being sovereign entities (LPR/DPR as part of Russia) yet in every practical sense they are and that was my point.
Irrelevant and 'nothing to do with the main topic'.
Black_Prince9000@reddit
Wait is Taiwan not a nation
haggerton@reddit
It's not even a nation according to itself, which is why "separatism from China" is a political topic there.
catcatcatcatcat1234@reddit
It is a nation according to itself, just "the Republic of China" and not "the Republic of greater Taiwan and lesser fujian"
It already sees itself separate from the PRC, as it is since there was a civil war and the PRC could not take parts of fujian and all of Taiwan. The three main camps of regular people are 1. Status quo: stay the ROC despite its historical repression and occupation of the island during the white terror and martial law. This is the only realistic option for most people despite many hokkien and haka Taiwanese having negative feelings towards the ROC. 2. Foster closer ties with China, but don't fully join them as the PRC may wish. This is the position of mainstream KMT supporters (many people vote KMT for domestic reasons so support more so the status quo.) 3. Reaffirm sovereignty either by becoming a Taiwanese state or a now officially smaller ROC officially separated (already officially unofficially smaller and separated but confirming that officially and "giving up" being part of mainland China would cause a war.) This is kind of supported by some DPP supporters but seen as unrealistic by most. Most DPP supporters want a stronger sense of sovereignty while staying in the bounds of the status quo. No one wants war, and if Taiwan exercises its right to self determination, China would react militarily and it would be disastrous for both countries.
barc0debaby@reddit
China doesn't need to invade, Filipinos already do a great job of killing tens of thousands of their countrymen on their own.
Valensre@reddit
I'm referring to Taiwan but okay.
Trollimperator@reddit
I feel like the quite part is, that you just need to bribe Trump and the USA wont do shit to help Taiwan. Just like with Ukraine after his election.
blackbartimus@reddit
Forget bribing anyone, it was already ultra clear even when Biden was at the wheel America is only committed to fighting to the last Ukrainian/Taiwanese. US support in these proxy conflicts is always just a means of trying to use other countries to grind down against their real existential fears China/Russia.
Any Taiwanese person expecting America to step up is kidding themselves and even the KMT officials seem pretty self aware of it these days.
brrbles@reddit
Lol, it's literally a Marcos-Duterte government.
5mao@reddit
This is the kind of dumb shit you often heard the Arabs talk about Iran before they got their ass handed to them. Constantly whining about how Iran is being aggressive and a threat to the region and then chicken shitting their way out of the war once they realize the US is worthless in a confrontation. By hyping up the threat Iran poses they actually enable Iran to block the straight of Hormuz. The same thing will happen where US vassal states once the going gets tough. It's like these morons haven't realized that the US can't even defeat Iran.
Valensre@reddit
So these 'US vassal states' like Vietnam should be servile to China instead?
5mao@reddit
Wtf are you even talking about lol? Vietnam is fighting to not be a US vassal state. Vietnam has been China leaning for years now. Get updated.
Valensre@reddit
Are you not 'updated' to Vietnam and the Philippines both disputing China's territorial claims in the South China Sea?
I mean, I assumed that you meant any of the ASEAN members going against China's territorial claims are 'US vassal states'. Am incorrect? How do you pick which ones are 'US vassal states' ?
defenestrate_urself@reddit
All the countries in the area have disputes over the SCS (and not just with China) but there is dialogue and an understanding to contain SCS issues and not let it jepordise cooperation. That's why Vietnam and China still have strong diplomatic relationship. VN and CHN still hold joint naval excercises despite the SCS claims.
https://en.baochinhphu.vn/viet-nam-china-hold-40th-joint-patrol-and-training-exercise-in-tonkin-gulf-111260319155125377.htm
The only odd one out is Phillipines because of their strong US leaning and willingness to engage themselves in the US-China cold war.
AWildNome@reddit
The only country that China actively gets into SCS conflicts with is the Philippines, and that’s due to the strong US presence within that country. Vietnam’s building their own islands in the SCS and China doesn’t care.
SendCatsNoDogs@reddit
Everyone in the area disputes each others claims in South China Sea.
Valensre@reddit
Correct, it's a pretty complicated situation instead of 'US vassal states vs China'..
Czart@reddit
Bro slinging talking points from the 70s. Go back to jerkin it to some underage gacha characters.
Hot-Train7201@reddit
Chinese vassal = good, strong independent state
US vassal = bad, weak, servile state
K31KT3@reddit
Lmao they advocating the puss strategy
Shake your fist at China and dare them. They’ve been claiming Taiwan for 80 years and ain’t don’t shit.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Oh no, the Chinese will have a justification to do checks notes what they've already been doing. Whatever will we do?
This is some mind bogglingly naive pearl clutching.
June1994@reddit
What are they doing? Precisely?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Building and maintaining a 'pre-emptive South China Sea military presence'? The quote should have made that obvious
ary31415@reddit
Having a south china sea military presence and creating diplomatic conflict with the Philippines?
Stuff like this that happens semi-regularly already.
June1994@reddit
The only difference is that China is bigger and has a bigger military. The region is disputed.
So what sin is China committing here? Do you think that they should simply let Philippinnes do whatever they want in a territory that’s internationally recognized as disputed?
ary31415@reddit
I'm not interested in getting into a conversation about the disputed territory itself because it's super not relevant.
The original comment said Marcos shouldn't have made this statement because it would create a "diplomatic row" and would give China "justification for a preemptive south china sea military presence".
The response was that that is already the case, so this statement didn't change anything.
Based on your comment it sounds like you agree that China already has a military presence in the South China Sea, and since you say the territory is disputed, you already agree that there are diplomatic issues between China and the Philippines. So I'm not sure why you're arguing here.
June1994@reddit
Both countries maintain a military presence in the area and the situation is more or less stable, albeit deteriorating slowly for the Philippines.
Im simply wondering what u/TraditionalGap1 thinks the actual situation is and why provoking the Chinese makes little difference.
ary31415@reddit
I'm curious why you consider this a provocation to Beijing. The quote says:
"Except that if there is actual confrontation, if there is conflict, just looking at the map, you can tell that the northern Philippines, at the very least, is going to be part of that or will feel the effects."
He didn't elaborate on how they might be involved, and certainly did not say they were going to intervene. Just that they'd be impacted, which is obvious.
SamuelClemmens@reddit
China is literally occupying their territory right now and laying claim to more.
"We will not wait for you to pick us off one by one" does need to be said.
ary31415@reddit
> “Except that if there is actual confrontation, if there is conflict, just looking at the map, you can tell that the northern Philippines, at the very least, is going to be part of that or will feel the effects,” he said.
> He didn’t elaborate on how the Philippines, a US treaty ally, would be involved or how it would be affected.
Did you even read the article? He didn't say the Philippines was going to be a belligerent necessarily, just that it would obviously impact them.
OverpricedBagel@reddit
The war for Taiwan has to be within 1-2 years if more than one country has now dropped strategic ambiguity. They don’t care about inciting China anymore because the same political fallout is looming either way.
YouScratchingMyBalls@reddit
They don't have any treaty obligations to the ROC if I remember correctly. The Philippine military is not in a capacity to intervene, either, even if it tried to.
Snoo_66994@reddit
PH has US bases, so they'll be joining that whether they like it or not, unless they got another pro-China president.
5mao@reddit
They're going to end up like UAE and all the gulf state countries whining about why China/Iran is bombing them when they house US bases and use their territory to attack China.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit (OP)
In any case where this might happen, we would be attacking the chinese mianland in defense of Taiwan
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit (OP)
*just for clarification, i mean like bombing in stuff. No way are we gonna invade china by land
Linny911@reddit
They should all join in then or get picked apart individually later on.
Don't fall for the best fake smiles that eternal peace is within reach if only the CCP could take Taiwan. That's just one of the things the CCP says for the chuckles of seeing whether someone's dumb enough to believe it, and then play victim/guilttrip when they don't.
The same way eternal peace and prosperity didn't happen if only the CCP could latch onto the West, that also isn't happening.
phedinhinleninpark@reddit
As if a single Filipino would have a choice in the matter anyway, lol