Is it OK to refer to women as girls in the UK?
Posted by Fun-Injury9266@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 823 comments
I'm from overseas but sometimes have worked briefly in the UK. I find the casual reference to grown women as girls, as in "the girls who work in the accounting department" a bit jarring to my ears. Is this culturally OK in the UK? Would the women in the accounting department be OK if their manager referred to them this way?
Heck_@reddit
It’s absolutely 100% context-dependent, based on the women you’re referring to, the situation and your relationship with them. Anyone giving you a blanket yes/no is wrong 😅
Yeah, going on a “night out with the girls” is probably fine. It’s a reasonable assumption that you’re friends with them and have that kind of relationship where they’re comfortable with being referred to in that way in that situation.
Your example of going to see “the girls in accounting” is probably inappropriate, like you say. You’re in a professional environment, you may not have an informal relationship with them, they’re adults, and it could be reasonably inferred as being patronising.
Then again, some female friends may not like being referred to as “girls” and some colleagues may not mind being referred to as girls either.
No blanket answer. Just try to use your best judgement.
Thrasy3@reddit
For anyone who has seen “a touch of cloth” - it just reminds me of that detective always saying “the boys down the station…”.
PhotoProfessional669@reddit
You don't mean A Touch Of Frost, by any chance?
Thrasy3@reddit
Awww, I means nothing in the end, but I gave you an upvote - obviously the title is a reference, so it’s natural someone who hasn’t heard of it might say that.
Bambi_H@reddit
No! It's a play on the name, but you should watch it.
ItsDominare@reddit
Any idea if and where it can be streamed?
Bambi_H@reddit
I think it was Channel 4, so it might still be on there? It had John Hannah in it, iirc.
_cake_tease@reddit
Given what "touching cloth" is slang for I can imagine it's taking the piss a little.
Bambi_H@reddit
It absolutely is.
sock_cooker@reddit
Sounds like shit
Zeal0try@reddit
"You're coming apart at the seams, Cloth!"
SharkByte1993@reddit
I think even "the women / ladies in accounting" could be seen as sexist in a professional setting. But it of course still depends on how well you know said women, how well you know the person you're saying this to, and the situation etc etc
DopeAsDaPope@reddit
The context, as always in Britain, is whether or not someone who's had people fuss over every hurt feeling they've ever had in their life wants to get a stick up their arse about it
Which, inevitably with all things here, there eventually will be
CapitanAI@reddit
If you call someone a woman, its unlikely they'll complain and ask you to call them a girl. If you call someone a girl, they may well complain and ask you not to call them a child.
RebelliousEducation@reddit
With your pals sure. I hate it in the workplace though. I know that is a me-issue, and I wouldn't raise it at a grievance on it's own (in some contexts, with particular dynamics, I maybe would though), but I also choose not to use it myself.
Context, as always, plays an important part.
BlackJackKetchum@reddit
Context is everything.
Hour_Course_9876@reddit
Following a HR meeting I had to chair for one of my employees I agree.
It will be down to a level of comfort individuals feel and who is saying what. In his own words “I’ve used the term “luv” all my life, why does X (63F) get to use it with no repercussions when Y (27M) get brought into a HR meeting”.
The point might be where are we putting the line between subjective and objective and how to judge?
Mrslinkydragon@reddit
I get called luv by the receptionist at work, it did make me feel a little uneasy at first because i personally dont use the term, however, I understand its a term of endearment in the north of england. I wont be going to HR over it because its a non issue and im not a dick!
acidteddy@reddit
I’m sorry but this is crazy to me. Why on earth does getting called luv make you feel uneasy?!
No_Confidence_3264@reddit
Worked in a bar, the people that said it to me would be staring at my chest and hitting on me. I know it’s harmless for most people saying it but anyone I don’t have a good relationship calling me luv, darling, sweetheart, or anything like that I feel is passively aggressively talking down to me or makes me feel like I’m being eyed fucked
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
That feeling will ease off as you get older and you will see the word for what it is but I get that it’s the wondering eyes that are the problem so teamed with a friendly thanks love makes it automatically creepy. I feel for you.
Available-Prize-4057@reddit
No confidence says it all
acidteddy@reddit
Okay yeah fair enough! Sorry if it came off as insensitive, everyone I know calls each other love but I didn’t think of it that way.
franki-pinks@reddit
Agreed. How perfect must your life be that being called luv made you feel uneasy?
Mrslinkydragon@reddit
Oh dont worry, my life is a mess.
Mrslinkydragon@reddit
I dont know, just wasnt expecting it from someone i hardly knew at the time
franki-pinks@reddit
Why would it make you feel uneasy?
Mrslinkydragon@reddit
I dont know 🤷
Danie99@reddit
I'm northern and use love, but I also think time and place. I use it in the pub or around people I know casually, I would not call people at work love and nor have I heard any other northerner use love in the office.
-FantasticAdventure-@reddit
I have Teams meetings and sign off with “love you byeeee”. But not with senior management obvs 🤣
Significant_Froyo899@reddit
Love you too ❤️
Hour_Course_9876@reddit
Is it only because of my perfect body and not my brain🤨 😘
Significant_Froyo899@reddit
😂 you do have lovely eyes
Hour_Course_9876@reddit
They are rather piercing green
Significant_Froyo899@reddit
Emeralds
CrabNebula_@reddit
Like and subscribe
coelakanth@reddit
All right geezer, hello mate I'm pleased to see you
CrabNebula_@reddit
Gimme little smile, little thumbs up
coelakanth@reddit
Nice little pat when me bum's up
BikerScowt@reddit
Tiny Tim?
PassiveTheme@reddit
I'm northern and used to use love a lot. I now live in Canada and know that it would cause confusion and could be taken the wrong way, so I no longer use it. But my (Canadian) girlfriend calls me "love" in texts and I always read it as an older northern woman talking to me, which I don't think is the intention.
lizboferrari@reddit
I imagine your Canadian girlfriend as Vera Duckworth 😂😂😂
PassiveTheme@reddit
That's pretty much how I read the texts haha
UIM-Zekel@reddit
I'm from n.ireland and live in south England, in a very well to do town I havnt quite acclimatised too yet. A lot of what feels normal to come from my mouth is either received fantastically or with an uncharacteristic amount of disgust..
I've been here for 9 years and I still can't tell what makes the difference, I'm sure it's endearment or insult on their part but it's just how I speak and the classes/environment/situation with every person has been ambiguous for me not to know what's going on tbh. Around close friends/colleagues it's easy, I'm just me and they get it. Once that branches beyond though..
hopefullyhelpfulplz@reddit
I worked in an office for a while, called others it and was called it. Never really thought twice about it, tbh, I use it all the time.
gingeandinterested@reddit
I had a colleague who used to call everyone on the phone ‘my love’ lol, she got some slack by some people but it was cute!
DucksBac@reddit
I used to work with someone who said luv in the office all the time and as one of very few women in that environment, I hated it. He was in every other way a good colleague.
KeaAware@reddit
I don't mind "luv", and I can even cope with "flower" and "petal" (though they do get an eyebrow). I draw the line at "lover", though!
Mrslinkydragon@reddit
Tbf the person who says it to me is lovely :3
HardlyAnyGravitas@reddit
Have you seen this:
https://youtu.be/Ebb272kjmWQ
Automatic-Pie-111@reddit
Appreciate you posting that, was quite emotional. Sir Ian isn't wrong, and at the end of the day it's only a word, I don't see why people would take it as offensive.
Hour_Course_9876@reddit
This actually brought a tear to my eye, thank you for that
Mrslinkydragon@reddit
:)
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
As long as you weren’t telling them what to do (and only asking politely), having a go at them, shouting at them or arguing then there shouldn’t have been a problem.
No_Ring_3348@reddit
"Would a reasonable person be offended?" is the legal line, a reasonable person being the median individual.
ExoticMangoz@reddit
Dreadful part of our laws tbh
ItsKingDx3@reddit
What is the alternative?
rectal_warrior@reddit
Fight to the death
Electrical-Strategy@reddit
Better than the mean individual.
Lynch888@reddit
So if you say something only 49 percent agree with you've crossed the legal line? I don't think that is accurate
Fuck_Up_5937@reddit
And as this example shows... the average person is filled with prejudice and bias
TheDark-Sceptre@reddit
Well does the median person find themselves on the Clapham omnibus. A 'reasonable person' doesnt necessarily mean the median individual, its not a quantifiable number where you take the 50th person out of 100.
Obvious-AI-Bot@reddit
My mum talks about "going out for a drink with the girls from her old job". She's 75, and the youngest of the "girls" is 56.
Yorks_Rider@reddit
I disagree that terms like “darling”, “love” or “sweetheart” could be used towards anyone. In the UK there are quite strong regional differences in the use of such terms and whether they may or may not be considers usual or cause offence.
CheaterMcCheat@reddit
I called a man dear today after taking his cannula out. I'm a man. It just slipped out.
Logicdon@reddit
'love' and 'cock or cocker' are one way terms.
If either term is aimed at a younger person than it's totally fine.
If a younger person says it to an older person it's very condescending.
Some people disagree, but fuck them they are cocks.
JensonInterceptor@reddit
I used to find "young man" particularly rude and patronising early in my career!
Hour_Course_9876@reddit
There’s no need to feel down, there’s a place you can go!
So sorry, the bad dad jokes in me had to come for this one!
JensonInterceptor@reddit
Haha!
Teacherymoment@reddit
Who is saying what and how they are saying it…
Thanks for the cup of tea luv
Pipe down luv
No_Atmosphere8146@reddit
In theory. In practice, anybody that has an actual issue with the word "girls" is definitely going to be hard work, constantly raising grievances over the most mundane shit.
jiggjuggj0gg@reddit
It’s fine colloquially, like “lunch with the girls” and “drinks with the boys”.
But it does get irritating when you’re 30+ being called ‘one of the girls in X department”, when nobody would ever refer to a male colleague as a ‘boy’.
yllecko@reddit
"when nobody would ever refer to a male colleague as a ‘boy’" just isn't true
teerbigear@reddit
I'm a man with a small team of, coincidentally, women. People will refer to them as "the girls". They are middle aged qualified professionals who also happen to be mothers, we really don't need to call them girls. Condescending.
Appropriate-Row4534@reddit
Guessing your small team of middle aged woman all follow you on reddit. Context, and context only, can make the term, Girls, condescending.
This is possibly more a reflection on yourself
teerbigear@reddit
Wut
I'm familiar with the context, I'm there.
Or maybe this is a reflection on yourself hmmm? Think about it?! [taps head]
Cakeo@reddit
Do they care? If not, why do you?
teerbigear@reddit
One does, one doesn't, don't know about the third.
But I see how other people, including leadership, react to it. They devalue them, which is what inevitably happens when you describe people in terms that lessen them. They're just "the girls in accounts" (not accounts but whatever)
Cakeo@reddit
It's really up to the person though, not you or anyone else. Would be nice if people stopped trying to make everyone's mind up for them.
teerbigear@reddit
Well I'm going to struggle to say "you can call this one girls but not all of them" aren't I?
But anyway, this idea is a real hobby horse for some people, and it really is bollocks.
If you see people being sexist, or racist, or whatever, you are allowed to be offended by that, to find it unpleasant, without being the specific victim. I think you probably should.
Hypothetical. If you and your friend ordered Chinese food, and after they put the phone down they pulled the corners of their eyes and did a racist "Chinese" voice, would you think that was okay? Or is it only Chinese people who are allowed to not like it?
(No doubt if you are ethnically Chinese you can replace this with something equivalent!)
ghoof@reddit
Hypothetically I would be fine with that.
acosed@reddit
hypothetically you should take a long look in the mirror and have a good think about the kind of person you are
likeafuckingninja@reddit
With respect.
I'm a woman in a professional male dominated field who often gets 'girled'
I DO have a problem with it in certain contexts and from certain people and no it's not that easy to just speak up about it because those men are still above me, still powerful, still a problem if I become 'problematic' and , whilst it bothers me, I have bigger fish to fry.
So actually I appreciate people like u/teerbigear thinking about it and potentially bringing it up or at least making a personal effort to not add to the problem.
Especially if they're in a position to see how it might make upper management undervalue or devalue a worker that the worker themselves may not even be aware of.
Sexism (or racism etc) isnt dealt with by the sole victim of it taking a stand. It's dealt by everyone around them and potential other victims considering theirs and others actions and words even if it's not directed at them.
He doesn't need to go charging in on their behalf demanding everyone police their language. But he can certainly not use the phrase himself and if he can see it being used to devalue or minimise work done by those women he can voice that specific concern as it comes up.
teerbigear@reddit
Thanks. It really is nothing, mostly just trying not to be a dick myself (it being described positively reminds of the time I walked down a market near where we live with our newborn son strapped to me and a woman came up to me a gushed about how wonderful it was that I was doing it - it was funny getting home and asking my wife if anyone ever said anything like that to her!).
Thank you for your advice too. I haven't made a big fuss (although I would have done if my team wanted me to) but one peer, probably a bit more senior than me really, "girled" them more than others whilst being a bit, er, old fashioned in other ways, so on another occasion I had a bit of a casual moan to him about other people doing it. And he has mostly stopped.
losgidi@reddit
For the reason he stated above
East-Delivery9834@reddit
Ah
In the building industry we use the term boys. If looking for something you mosty get "ask them boys over there".. Some of these boys are possibly 60
cyberllama@reddit
I'm 49 and have no problem being called "one of the girls" in any context. It's common for the men to be called "the boys" or "the lads" as well. Could be that it's region-specific or industry-specific.
Where I do take offence is where the context is it being used to undermine me or another woman directly, e.g. "I'm not taking orders from a (slip of a) girl" - heard both of those directed at me. Just a girl, only a girl and my all-time personal favourite - being told I'm still a girl because you aren't a real woman until you've had kids.
anabsentfriend@reddit
I agree, context is everything. Peers referring to each other as 'the girls/boys' is fine as long as it's used in equal measure. But a senior manager calling a staff member a girl, really isn't - these are the people who are unlikely to call a man doing the same role a boy.
mittenkrusty@reddit
My senior managers who are women call male colleages boys,
Closest I get with colleages is if I am unsure use lady/ladies but even that can offend some people.
Women feels too formal.
anabsentfriend@reddit
Context is very much everything. I personally don't think managers should be referring to their staff with childish terms.
I work in a legal professional environment. I can only imagine the tumbleweed moment that would occur if anyone called the barristers girls or boys.
Bombstar10@reddit
In formal environments at work we tend to defer to using gentleman or gentlewoman/lady over man or woman still.
I can’t imagine I’d use boy or girl at work though. Friends, sure. You might hear bloke, mate, chap (used gender neutrally nowadays), or guy/gal, though. At least where I’m at.
I did once hear an American colleague use ‘bro-ette’ recently which was a chuckle.
ForeignAd9383@reddit
I would love to be refered to as one of the girls but then I am a transvestite
enygma999@reddit
That last one can f right off. Having kids doesn't have any relation to whether you're a "real" anything, including "parent".
Ok-Explanation1990@reddit
I dunno. In my workplace, the women refer to us as "the boys". I'm 50 years old. I don't think anyone minds.
teerbigear@reddit
You do appreciate that the reason nobody minds is because they don't feel at risk of sexism, whilst many women do right?
geeered@reddit
That sounds like a sexist assumption to make, to be honest.
teerbigear@reddit
You think it's sexist to suggest that women are much more at risk of sexism than men in the workplace?
kickyraider@reddit
Yes
geeered@reddit
It's sexist to suggest that someone doesn't feel something because of their sex. Men can and absolutely do feel at risk of sexism too.
teerbigear@reddit
Of course they do, but not the one I responded to. And, typically, fewer men do, because sexism is more often against women in the workplace.
geeered@reddit
Ah, my apologies; I didn't realise you were good friends with the person you replied to and their 3 colleagues, so you could speak for them.
Ahem
teerbigear@reddit
This is some proper all lives matter vibes. Grow up.
geeered@reddit
The European Institute for Gender Equality 'is some proper all lives matter vibes' for you?
Everyone's equal, but some are more equal than others, for you too, I guess.
WeeklyPermission239@reddit
Honestly wouldn't bother replying to that person further, they don't know what they don't know. Blissful ignorance.
GoWumboMode@reddit
your point is extremely basic and easy to understand, dont waste your time arguing with someone who's missing the point purposefully
mittenkrusty@reddit
How do you define that?
For example most offices/call centres etc I know are far more likely to hire women, that is to me sexism, as are other industries, and that is down to gendered stereotypes however this is not seen as sexism towards women as it's a positive to them.
Where do you draw the line? What I am getting at is people only see certain things and it doesn't help that the media is also guilty of this.
teerbigear@reddit
I'm certainly not denying the existence of misandry. I'm saying that the chances are this man in an all male team who doesn't mind generalisations about his gender probably doesn't experience it, whilst the women who don't want to be called "girls" probably do.
mittenkrusty@reddit
I work in an office, the majority of staff including management are women and they call male colleagues boys, or men and women "guys" if they are being more formal.
The men in the office don't care really, and both sides have mentioned the girls and boys going on a night out.
So to me I see it as people may be thinking of something that may not be there, and when it may occur they then think that's the norm rather than the exception.
No-Relation1122@reddit
When you get called a silly little boy as a grown man for daring to have an opinion the way women get called silly little girls, then it's equal. Silly little girl is thrown around often and so so patronising.
Ok-Explanation1990@reddit
The assumptions you make about me based on my age and gender aside - yes, I do realise. But when I say "no-one minds" I mean the wooden too - who we sometimes refer to as "the girls". But we all get along equally as part of a team and sometimes socialise outside of work too, and I don't think there's a problem.
Cakeo@reddit
Sounds like youre trying to make it something it isn't.
ShoTime369@reddit
Are the women your boss?
Ok-Explanation1990@reddit
No they aren't. We are same grade.
RagingMassif@reddit
The boys in the trading room rings a bell. The lads from No. 10 was said by Carl Turner MP today.
Sinarum@reddit
The boy in men never really disappears. Deep down we’re still the same boy we were many years ago
Equal_Theory_6925@reddit
Men are referred to as boys all the time, honestly it's not really that big a deal is it
Sharp-Ad-3253@reddit
Wrong. Men often described as ‘lads’ or ‘guys’
WeDoingThisAgainRWe@reddit
Happens all the time places I’ve worked. Boys, lads etc.
Theratchetnclank@reddit
They will say one of the lads in X though
No_Atmosphere8146@reddit
I don't believe a man would object, much less raise a complaint, or even notice for that matter.
jiggjuggj0gg@reddit
Ok? We’re not talking about men, we’re talking about women, who have historically faced much more sexism in the workplace.
If people don’t want to be called something, don’t call them that, it’s really not difficult.
Ok-Explanation1990@reddit
Actually this thread is in response to someone claiming that no-one would ever refer to male colleagues as "boys". So we are taking about men, in this particular bit of the discussion.
jiggjuggj0gg@reddit
My comment, where I am talking about why women often find it inappropriate to be called a 'girl' in the workplace...?
Ok-Explanation1990@reddit
That's the one. The one in which you make the false asassumption that men in a workplace would never be referred to as boys, which people are correcting you on.
teerbigear@reddit
If they were referred to as a girl?
Vegetable_Leg_7034@reddit
I worked in warehousing, driving and labwork across multiple industries, and if someone asked for help that another department, mostly staffed by males, 'get the boys in the warehouse to look at that..' would be fine.. you're not going to expect 'get the the two young fellas and the older guy to look at that.'
As a group, in a work environment, 'girls' and 'boys' that describe the majority gender is fine here. You would look mental trying to explain how that even offended you.
Now, when talking about an individual, that is a different matter.. for example, someone asks who to speak to, but it's not in your department, but you do know who it is, then you would direct them to the woman named 'xxx' or the gentleman 'xxx' in the relevent department.
Arsewhistle@reddit
Nah, that happens all the time
Demostravius4@reddit
Yeah, it can be a bit of a boys club sometimes
Juicylucyfullofpoocy@reddit
Our IT boys are called IT boys every time anyone refers to them. They don’t find it irritating - it wouldn’t feel right calling them IT men/man.
mittenkrusty@reddit
My work calls them the IT guys, there is some women there but they don't seem to mind.
Daveddozey@reddit
Better to use a non gender specific term. Crowd perhaps?
Youbunchoftwats@reddit
Or monkeys. I’m one of the IT monkeys.
cyberllama@reddit
IT gimps
Youbunchoftwats@reddit
That works 👍
-FantasticAdventure-@reddit
IT they/them
TheScrobber@reddit
I mean, thousands do...
Tony-The-Heat@reddit
Considering the oft used name for a male heavy leadership team or a male heavy top end of an industry is a "boys club" or an "old boys club" I'm not sure I agree that nobody would refer to male colleagues as boys.
Anecdotally I would say one of the boys in x department. We used the have a finance team of two men and a woman, the men were always the finance boys.
UKNightWatch@reddit
Gotta just correct you! No malice intended. When working in a toy shop [some years ago and for many years] I was often referred to as 'boy'. It is double standards to not accept females being called 'girls' but think it is OK to refer to men as 'boys'. I have had mates who got called 'boy' at work ask not to be referred to that way just to be told they are over reacting or they need to 'man up'. Sexism works both ways but you would not think it did in todays heavily biased world [western culture].
Critterer@reddit
Thats not true. Men get called boys ALL THE TIME.
We just generally dont get irritated.
HatOfFlavour@reddit
one of the girls in accounting
one of the lads in processing
No_Willingness_4733@reddit
It's all about context. If your mother is having a lunch with girls or your friend organizing a girl's lunch then that's totally fine.
If your male manager talks about males as 'men' and females as 'girls', that's not acceptable.
No_Atmosphere8146@reddit
Sounds more like actively looking for offence tbh. A female manager referring to "women" and "boys" wouldn't even be noticed by anybody.
No_Willingness_4733@reddit
1) This doesn't happen, the word boys is not used often to describe adults, as opposed to girls 2) I'd actually find it weird, if someone in a formal position was talking about his subordinates as 'boys'
Btw not every negative feeling necessarily have to be an "offence"
Sutraner@reddit
You lot carry on saying this but ignoring the dozens of commenters saying it's very common.
Which it is. I hear it all the time, and you definitely hear it commonly in less formal industries.
Except it's not weird and nobody cares.
anabsentfriend@reddit
It would definitely be noticed in my organisation.
Own-Jeweler3169@reddit
This is true. But plainly as OP described, I do not believe is derogatory or sexist. In my workplace women have no issue being referred to as ladies. People just love to be offended about anything and everything nowadays.
cloud__19@reddit
I feel like there's a lot of men on this thread deciding what women are allowed to not be happy about.
Sutraner@reddit
There's a lot of women in this thread denying what happens to men
cloud__19@reddit
Well I'm not one of them so I'm not sure why you're telling me.
Sutraner@reddit
Oh, you're the only one allowed to strawman, I get it
cloud__19@reddit
I'm not. I'm responding to a comment and you've come in with a complete non seqitir that doesn't relate to anything I've said. Go and grind your axe somewhere relevant.
milrose404@reddit
OP didn’t mention being referred to as ladies?
The_Mayor_Involved@reddit
It was an example
kissingkiwis@reddit
Of what? Two different words with different connotations?
The_Mayor_Involved@reddit
Of how context is important
Own-Jeweler3169@reddit
You are correct, I was mixed up with another comment thread within, in fact he referred to 'girls'.
Concept still applies.
Novel-Case6821@reddit
But... if the women in your work did want to be referred to as women then you'd do that of course. If no one is offended and the term isn't generally offensive then it's all good. If someone is offended and you're a reasonable person then you tailor your language to suit.
Own-Jeweler3169@reddit
Absolutely, hence my comment about context being relevant. It's just very very unusual that someone would be offended by this, hence why in another comment i advised it's best to er on the side of caution, and use completely professional (?) language.
Novel-Case6821@reddit
Agreed.
Side note - I really feel for anyone learning English as a second language, it's the most convoluted nightmare ever. I'll take complex German compound nouns over trying to explain English colloquialisms.
CosiDuci@reddit
I moved to Leeds last September, yesterday was the first time a „luv“ casually escaped my lips. It was directed at the DPD delivery guy who called me „dahlin“ or sth like that and felt very appropriate.
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
Amen. I volunteer teach English as a Second Language.
Own-Jeweler3169@reddit
Haha ikr, I learnt a bit of German at GCSE and I've always felt empathy to people trying to learn english, 1 word can have many many different formal and informal meanings, plus a slightly different pronunciation can have a completely different meaning.
Thank god I was born British, if not purely for being fluent in English!
thekiltcommander@reddit
We call them birds.
Realistic-River-1941@reddit
I'm reading a book from the 1920s where birds means men. It is very confusing.
cari-strat@reddit
Well it's better than clunge....
No_Atmosphere8146@reddit
The Gash Pit (ie HR Dept)
PublixEnemynumberone@reddit
That’s OK - as long as you’re in Liverpool…
Own-Jeweler3169@reddit
Lol, the vast majority of people are pretty easy about informality amongst friends/colleagues, but I guess the point is it only takes 1 person to be offended before policy comes in to ban any and all informalities.
I guess it depends on what kind of place you work at, but in a typical office, I've been raised to be very careful about what you say within, as it can land you into all sorts of unintended trouble. Ridiculous really, but that's my point, everyone is offended about everything, there's a clear distinction between what's right and wrong, and from Op's description, I don't see the wrong. If someone said 'speak to the boys in my department', I'm not gonna start having a fit and making grievances, and claiming a year off for my mental health...
But alas we are on reddit, and the snowflakes will always be there to downvote! Fuck em tbh.
glasgowgeg@reddit
That's not what OP is asking about.
franki-pinks@reddit
My husband is 44 and is going fishing with “the boys” tomorrow. Should I be worried?
notactuallyabrownman@reddit
I hope it was a male sibling for maximum comedy value.
paolog@reddit
It's only sexism if it is intended to demean or if one sex is treated unfairly. Neither of these apply.
DoorFinch@reddit
Someone can do it entirely oblivious to the attitude it betrays, without any conscious intent to demean.
Maleficent-Drive4056@reddit
I respectfully disagree. Intention isn’t necessary. Negligently diminishing someone because of their sex is also sexism (albeit accidental).
mittenkrusty@reddit
Had something similar a few years back, the women be they 18 or 60 in my office call the men "boys" and the men be they 18 or 60 call the women "girls" and both genders also use the word "guys"
I have seen a 18 year old girl call a guy in his 50's a boy, and the older women staff when referring to the guys say something like "you are still a boy" as a compliment.
But I was called sexist outside of work when I referred to a 18 year old I knew who was acting immature (who wasn't there or known to the people I was with, it was a discussion about people being silly) I said "A 18 year old girl I knew" and was instantly stopped and told how toxic I am and the word girl is only for under 16's, anyone above that is a woman and I was a typical man for not understanding and they found it ok to insult me, some women I had known a few years basically stopped talking to me when I said I didn't understand why they were getting so upset over it and tried giving my reasons.
gothicthistle@reddit
When I was in retail one regular called myself and my colleagues 'the morning girls', we didn't mind because he was always so kind and clearly meant it affectionately
Revolutionary_West56@reddit
Do they also complain when ‘guys’ is used as a gender neutral term for everyone 🙄
Opening-Concert-8016@reddit
I think context would be important. You'd say the boys down in the warehouse, or the boys in IT, or the boys in HR (if it was an all male HR team). You might also say lads instead of boys which is less age related I suppose.
Probably comes down to the individual.
Saying the women in HR would be jarring to a lot of people in the UK but also I think that would be an initial reaction whereas when you think about it, you're probably quite right, and it isn't the right term to use.
Lanky-Big4705@reddit
'The women in HR' implies their gender is a defining and noteworthy attribute of the HR team. 'The girls in HR' sounds more affectionate and more acceptably neutral assuming you have a friendly relationship with them. Of course some women will object to being called girls which I can understand. There are other nuances and this is one where you'll probably only understand as a native I'm afraid.
Opening-Concert-8016@reddit
I think after reading the question and then reflecting on it I'd now probably say the ladies in HR, rather then the girls in HR. But that's only because it's now been pointed out to me.
I wouldn't have thought about it in my own. Very true if a lot of things in our society.
When I was at school 20 years ago, you'd often do something or say something to someone (like telling another lad you thought his new coat was cool) and the response would be "gaaayyyy".
In my later teen years someone pointed out that it's quite offensive. But because it was the default of everyone around me I just hadn't realised. Took a different point of view to change my point of view. Similar to this Reddit post.
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
Yes unless you are being rude or shouting at them.
MacaroonSad8860@reddit
I also hear “the boy” a lot in the UK. As in, “I gave the boy a tip” referring to a grown man. So yes.
KEW95@reddit
It’s usually only about very young men, not adult men over 25. “Girl” is often used to infantilise women, though.
fezzuk@reddit
Abosultly not, in warehouses, construction any manual labour work they are refered to as "the boys" all the time.
When many are in their 50s/60s.
KEW95@reddit
“Usually”, not always.
fezzuk@reddit
Sure.
MacaroonSad8860@reddit
My British partner says “the boy” to refer to just about every male service worker (no, he’s not posh fwiw).
Lordaucklandx@reddit
Don’t come at the girlbosses like that
KEW95@reddit
That’s typically used by women for women. It’s usually disliked when used by men for women because it can be patronising.
Lordaucklandx@reddit
Is it, as a woman myself I mostly just dislike it entirely when used by any gender.
KEW95@reddit
That’s personal preference, though. I’m not keen for myself either, but I can understand that some women do like it.
Dwynsilver@reddit
Pretty safe bet to avoid bringing your overseas conventions into the UK culture. Your ways are not the UK ways. As others have mentioned listen for context cues. If no one looks offended don't let it bother you. The ladies in the UK are quick to upbraid you if they are bothered.
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
Where I come from it's best not to call grown women in the workplace girls. A technician in a hospital is probably not going to call a female surgeon a girl to her face in the workplace in front of others. The reverse might not be true, but women generally consider it inappropriate, infantilizing when uttered by men in the workplace. Judging by the other posts here, particularly from women in the workplace, it's not so different in the UK. So I'm not understanding your counsel to "avoid bringing" my feelings about women being called girls in the workplace. I feel what I feel, as do many UK women feel in the workplace.
Dwynsilver@reddit
But you aren't where you come from, though. Women, in the UK, often refer to themselves as 'girls' when they are talking about meeting up somewhere. Doesn't matter what age they are. And it crosses generations. Doesn't seem to bother my relations any and the family has been part of the UK for 1000 years.
TheParanoidUnicorn@reddit
Opinions vary, is the actual answer.
I know women in their 50s & 60s who refer to themselves as 'girls' and I know some in their 20s & 30s who'd be very offended.
I think it's on the way out. But I believe there was also a bit of a 90s reclaiming of the word, so where you hit generationally probably affects how you feel about it.
I wouldn't say it personally, but I try not to get offended when other's do.
ButterscotchDeep6187@reddit
Depends on the context. I think it’s fine to say “the girls” if you include yourself among “the girls”.
But a male manager a few years older than me referred to me and a colleague as “the girls” to a client, and it felt incredibly jarring.
I would call the same colleague one of “the girls” as we are friends.
DaYungWulf@reddit
I had an older male manager call me and my colleague (both 20 year old women) ‘good girls’ after we did an assignment for him.
We then went to the bathroom and tried our best not to gag. It doesn’t help that by that point, we’d have only known him for less than a year, and we certainly were NOT in a relationship close enough to make it a casual interaction either.
This is a perfect example of when it is extremely inappropriate and downright creepy to call a woman a girl.
ButterscotchDeep6187@reddit
That is AWFUL.
audigex@reddit
I think one place it's always jarring is when someone senior uses it to refer to people junior to them
That's not the only place it's inappropriate, but it's one of the most clear examples because it feels patronising
OurSeepyD@reddit
I may be out of touch but I would potentially say girls without thinking about it, I've always seen it as similar to "guys". I would NEVER go up to women in the team and say "hello girls", but I feel like I would say something like: "a couple of guys/girls in the team thought this".
I would never intentionally mean it in a derogatory way, and I even think "women" might sound jarring, formal, and potentially like you're referring to older women.
I'm happy to be told I'm wrong, I generally just say guys when talking about any group of any gender.
miffedmonster@reddit
This is how I see it:
"I spoke to the X in HR"
Weirdo (just don't)- good lady, gentlewoman, madame, female // fellow-me-lad, fine fellow, liege
Formal (sounds older with more emphasis on gender) - lady // gentleman
Average (neutral, acceptable in pretty much all scenarios) - woman // man, guy, bloke
Informal (not acceptable in a work scenario or where the person is less than a friend to you) - lass, girl, chapette, guy, dude // lad, boy, dude, chap
Insulting - little girl, girlie, broad, babe, skirt, bint, typist, sec, bird, lady accountant (or other job title), mum (unless she is literally a child's mum and is currently with her child) // prat, muppet, sod, boyo and other generic insults
I'd say the reason "girls" is less formal than "guys" is because it makes the woman sound like a child. It is more comparable to "boys", which tends to be a more friends-only word.
I also am not a fan of "guys" as a group term because it's almost always used like the French "ils" - where even 1 man turns the whole group masculine. I don't think I've ever heard anyone naturally use "guys" for a group of just women.
OurSeepyD@reddit
I actually do it all the time. Emails or messages are often "hey guys", even if all women, and even "those guys over there". I would probably say "those women over there" if I thought it was really worth removing all ambiguity.
It's interesting, and this may just be me, but if someone says "girl", I typically think "their age or younger" relative to who says it. If someone says "boy", I think male child, under 18.
I think the reason for this is that we have three main words for males: man, guy, and boy, and only two words for females: woman and girl. Obviously we have the others you mentioned, but they sound either regional (lass) or slangy (chap).
miffedmonster@reddit
If you ask a straight man how many guys they've kissed, 99% of them will say none (and 1% will have "experimented").
The group usage of guys is masculine or, at best, gender neutral. It centres men as default and women as other. Kinda like how we'd say football as men's or maybe mixed football, but women's football for the women's game. People don't say men's football because that's redundant - it's implied to be men's unless specified not to be. I don't think I'm explaining this great cos I'm tired, but I think that kinda makes sense? You get the same thing the other way round too btw, like male nurses or dads being the primary parent. It's really bad in the ballroom dancing world, where men and women can dance together, 2 women can dance together but will score lower, but 2 men I don't think would even be allowed to dance together (in mainstream competitions). Haha I'm irritating myself just trying to think of examples!
toggles03@reddit
I’m not sure that logic works. If you ask a straight man how many girls he’s kissed, he might say six but that doesn’t mean he’s literally kissed six female minors.
OurSeepyD@reddit
I cant explain why, but contextually I just think your examples are different. Again, I might be in the minority (and therefore "descriptively" wrong), but "those guys" and "how many guys" just sound completely different to me.
I guess to illustrate this, if someone said: - "how many guys work in your office?", you wouldn't count women at all. Guys really feels like the focus of the question and emphasises gender. - "those guys", on the other hand, can include women - as you've said, it's commonly used for mixed groups.
As for defaultism, I get your point, but this happens with other things too. In French, straight ahead is "tout droit", i.e. straight right. We say "gauche" for things that are crude or awkward. Sinister means threatening, and left-handed. I personally think we should just separate the etymology from the evolved usage, and if we want a female inspired word for a mixed group, I'm cool with it.
ellenchamps@reddit
lady
OurSeepyD@reddit
M'lady 🎩
audigex@reddit
The difference is that it’s a manager who should be much more careful with their phrasing, that was my point - it’s the seniority over the people being referred to
ButterscotchDeep6187@reddit
I agree. In my case also the fact it was the word used to refer to us in front of a client, felt like a bit of an erosion of our credibility. Us “girls” might not have been the most senior people on the call, but we’re in our early 30s and plenty experienced/competent.
OurSeepyD@reddit
I'd agree in that context yup
Significant-Oil-8793@reddit
G is the new N word
West-Season-2713@reddit
It’s definitely a diminutive, which is cute if you’re friends and demeaning if you’re a colleague.
OwlAviator@reddit
I'd agree with this. There's a female manager at my work who referred to me and a colleague as 'girls', I really didn't like it as she's much older so it just felt patronising. But if she'd said 'us girls' to refer to us and herself, that would have been fine! I think you should only use 'girls' for children, or if you yourself are counted in the 'girls'.
mmmkarmabacon@reddit
Depends who you are in relation to them. I am a 36 year old woman, I have a group of friends who I affectionately refer to as 'the boys'. They are all at least slightly older than me, and a couple of them are actually women, but the core group are men.
If I had a similar group of friends who were mostly female, it would be 'the girls'. I wouldn't use that in a work capacity, unless we were also friends and I was counting myself among them.
If someone in a position of power used it then it could feel derogatory. Best avoided.
DaYungWulf@reddit
I think the context (both the situation and the relationship involved) is what decides if it’s acceptable or offensive.
If it’s playful, casual and between people who know each other, calling grown women ‘girls’ or grown men ‘boys’ is generally light hearted.
But if it’s a serious or professional environment and you don’t really know each other, it can be seen as patronising, dismissive and disrespectful. Especially if the person saying it is in a higher position of power within the workplace.
For example, if an older male boss refers to a younger female employee, who is relatively new or they just don’t know each other well outside of a professional environment, as a girl in a work meeting, that would likely be seen as rude from her view. Swap the genders and it’s still the same situation.
If it’s a casual environment and you know each other well enough to trust that there are no ulterior motives, calling someone a girl in a playful way, is fine.
RobertTheSpruce@reddit
Generally yes.
lindsaychild@reddit
Girls is becoming sexist, women is a bit too formal, Ladies is becoming the mid point.
vientianna@reddit
Context.
It’s fine for me to say I’m going out on the town with the girls
It’s not fine for my dad to repeatedly call his mid-30s qualified dentist “the young girl who does my teeth”.
Fine in social context not fine in a professional one
OnTheLeft@reddit
I think it is?
sunofdork@reddit
I would agree with you generally, my grandparents in their 60s-80s would also say “the young lad who does my teeth” but that commenter knows their dad and how it sounds from his mouth. don’t think it’s a blanket thing.
pintsized_baepsae@reddit
But isn't lad still somewhat different to girl?
Sure, they're both casual, but you can't just replace it with boy... Which is the actual equivalent to girl.
sunofdork@reddit
They would say lass rather than girl, to be fair.
laoxue@reddit
Absolutely the same in my case. Even I would talk about the new lad/lass at work despite them being in their early 30s. Works much better than boy/girl.
Sutraner@reddit
Lass literally means girl
laoxue@reddit
But we don’t always speak literally, do we? If I were speaking about a young girl/boy. I’d say wee laddie or wee lassie - or larl lad or larl lass depending on which side of the border I’m on. These are clear and distinct differences that would be understood by the people I’m conversing with.
Sutraner@reddit
But you wouldn't call a woman in her 50s lass either because it means a young female adult.
It's literally just as diminutive as girl
laoxue@reddit
And again, we do not always use language in a literal way! In a previous job, my boss - a woman in her 50s - took me to meet the “new lass” on reception in the hotel - a woman in her 60s. For the next few weeks, she was the new lass. That’s how she even described herself. This was just how we addressed each other and this was a place that was split about equally between men and women and employed people of all ages.
Sutraner@reddit
Which is exactly how you'd use girl
pintsized_baepsae@reddit
Yeah, that's pretty different. :D
I wish it'd catch on outside Scotland/i assume (parts of) the North of England too, maybe? It's a good term!
sunofdork@reddit
South Yorkshire here
BrotherClive@reddit
I'm with you. I was generally agreeing with most of this thread but genuinely don't see a big issue with that, in that context. Just a very innocuous thing an older man would say. Most of the other examples here I would agree there are some fairly low level/likely unintentional sexist comments, but struggling on this one.
Wouldn't say it myself but fuck me, if folk are going to get upset about that....could just as easily say "the young lad that does my teeth". This is the kind of thing that makes me concerned I'm going to inadvertently gravely offend someone, one of these days!
Just about every example in this thread, I would hope that in the worst case, someone would explain "maybe don't say girls in that context, just to avoid any misunderstanding that you're being a little sexist" and everyone gets on with their day. I really hope people aren't actually getting disciplined for a slight misstep like that.
Enough internet for today.
theProffPuzzleCode@reddit
He wouldn't say "the young boy who does my teeth", he would say "the young man". That's the problem. There are contexts where it is OK and contexts where it isn't.
SmashingTeaCups@reddit
He might say young guy
What’s the guy equivalent for women?
18usernameslater@reddit
Young lady? A bit dated, perhaps, but at least it's respectful.
Sutraner@reddit
Lady is the equivalent of gent / gentleman not guy
hopefullyhelpfulplz@reddit
Gal
A_In_Wonderland@reddit
Reading this thread I think part of the problem is there is no “guy” equivalent for women!
RyanRhysRU@reddit
Think it depends on your relationship with your dentist, mine still calls me kid even though I'm on my late 20s
vientianna@reddit
Thank-you for getting it
Lizbelizi@reddit
Then let's hope this thread provides you with a new perspective. Women all over the world will thank you for taking the time to read all the different comments and do some self reflection.
OnTheLeft@reddit
I think I'll just defer to women I know in real life. If I let Reddit threads determine my opinion for everything I'd become detached from reality.
Lizbelizi@reddit
You don't have to let it determine your opinion but it's a space where you can read what other people outside your immediate social circle think. It's an okayish sourse for a wider range of opinions and should give you a better understanding of how the average person will perceive what you say.
The other thing about online discussions is that people aren't scared to hurt your feelings and be direct with you, whereas the women you know in real life might not want to get into an awkward conversation when they have no guarantee you will listen or care, when they already might feel less respected/infantilised by you. People on reddit are less likely to agree with you out of awkwardness or politeness.
OnTheLeft@reddit
I can assure you that's not the case, so don't worry about it. I'm just not concerned about my elderly parents saying something like "the young girl at reception let me in" even though that woman is my age. It's not a big deal and if someone feels infantilised by that then that's unfortunate, but the world doesn't need to bend to every whim in order for there to be progress.
Lizbelizi@reddit
Yes calling out small everyday acts of disrespect is as necessary for there to be progress as changing laws and governments.
Frankly I'm not sure what point you're trying to make other than your parents raised you to be like them and you have no interest in doing better because you can't be arsed.
OnTheLeft@reddit
I think you have no idea how much I'm a defender of change and progress and this whole thing is pathetic. This isn't even indicative of a patronising attitude towards women. It's embarrassing levels of oversensitivity and it makes us look bad when we're trying to espouse feminism. Keep painting this picture of me as some backwards EDL member if it makes you feel better though.
Lizbelizi@reddit
You've painted that picture entirely by yourself ¯_(ツ)_/¯
UnluckyThread@reddit
r/menandgirls
ZzDangerZonezZ@reddit
I agree, I wouldn’t think anything of it if it came from someone older than 50. It’s typically an endearing term used to emphasise someone is young.
OwlAviator@reddit
In a professional setting, I don't want my youngness emphasised. It's infantilisimg. I'm a professional adult, not a little girl.
vientianna@reddit
Professional women do not want to be called by endearing terms, that is the point
TopBookChat1105@reddit
You’d be incorrect
matomo23@reddit
You can’t just say “you’d be incorrect” though! To some people it may be fine. I wouldn’t say it though.
OnTheLeft@reddit
I feel like boy is acceptable basically all the time unless the intention is clearly to patronise so why is the same not true of girl?
People can be so sensitive
Hyperion2023@reddit
Nope
Demostravius4@reddit
Why'd you add the word young?
vientianna@reddit
I didn’t. He does
Apprehensive_Ring666@reddit
“Young girl” is very different from “girl” (when this is a post about girl vs women)
vientianna@reddit
Neither is appropriate in this context 👍
Aardvarknow@reddit
I and another women I work with were recently referred to as "the girls" whilst in a work meeting. It did not go down well.
I would avoid using it, whilst some people don't mind, significant numbers of folks dislike it and find it belittling and offensive.
forest_elf76@reddit
Its pretty common, but it is used casually, e.g. used to refer to friends. So a woman might refer to her friends as 'the girls'. But could be inappropriate for a stranger to say, depending on their tone and context.
Character_Major_5634@reddit
Seems many women feel patronised if being called girl by men in working place. Can you refer to a girl as woman? Is it safe to always use women?
helenfirebird@reddit
I was born in the Midlands, spent some years in London and then moved to the North West. I have always used love, hon, and similar. Especially to delivery people for some reason.
Blind_Warthog@reddit
Whatever you do, don’t call them ladies!
geekypenguin91@reddit
Serious question, why not? I would have thought "the ladies in accounts" would be better than the girls?
ResponsibilityOld372@reddit
Both are not great. It's just best not to group people according to their gender because then yeah, sexist.
geekypenguin91@reddit
I don't see how it's sexist if they are all the same gender and identify as such but ok
ResponsibilityOld372@reddit
I cant believe I have to explain this. Its like how you single any group out based on their physical traits. You offer chopsticks to a chinese looking person when they might be Filipino and use knife and forks. Everyone is working in the same place, everyone is a worker as much as everyone else, they shouldn't be grouped as a gender, that is what makes it sexist.
geekypenguin91@reddit
Ok but referring to a group of Chinese people as Chinese isn't racist? So why is referring to a group of ladies as "ladies" when they have all identified themselves as such, sexist?
ResponsibilityOld372@reddit
You've missed the context and taking it too directly with your chinese comment, which is not the same thing. They are in the work place so they shouldnt be viewed purely by appearing as a certain gender. Theres always certain things you cant apply in a professional setting. We HAVE had an older male manager constantly refer to us as girls or ladies and yes we have all felt insulted.
geekypenguin91@reddit
Then how is your comment about misidentifying someone as Chinese even vaguely relevant?
If a group of people have all identified themselves as feminine, then I fail to see how referring to them as ladies is in any way sexist.
Your example for your manager honestly sounds like you've made an issue where one doesn't exist. We're they doing it to be derogatory? Unlikely.
ResponsibilityOld372@reddit
You don't see how it can offensive Yeah racists don't see how they can be offensive too. Guess I have to point out everything, the Chinese example was stop judging people by their physical traits, that's when discrimination happens. My further lived example should have gave you pause for thought as it wasn't just me it was 2 other women.And again,calling someone ladies on the street or whatever is not sexist. Constantly referring to a group of women that in the office is. Apply it in the work context. Stop just thinking in a simple box. Just take the advice and stop whining about your views being wrong.
Own-Jeweler3169@reddit
How is grouping people by gender sexist, lets say for whatever reason, there was a task specifically for the 'ladies in accounts', this is simply a factual statement, there is no discrimination, or derogatory meaning behind it.
Grouping people by gender is not sexist, just how we group bathrooms by gender. You're applying the same logic of racism to draw a comparison to sexism, if there was a bathroom for different ethnicities then yes this would be considering racist, however I don't see how referring to a group of people by gender is sexist in itself.
GeggingIn@reddit
I’m a lady and I use ladies all the time.
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
Does it make a difference what part of the country you're in? E.g., London vs. Manchester?
GeggingIn@reddit
Probably. I’m from Glasgow and early 40s, but that doesn’t mean every woman from Glasgow will think it is okay.
There are words that I absolutely hate, that other women think are fine.
ODFoxtrotOscar@reddit
It’s not ok
Some people use it, but it’s jarring to many and best avoided (unless talking only to people who you know do not mind)
Character_Major_5634@reddit
Seems some women feel patronising if called a girl in work. But can a man call a girl woman? Is it safe to use woman all the time.
Mikon_Youji@reddit
The women in accounting probably would be be bothered. It's kind of normal here to refer to women as "the girls" or "the ladies".
Overtronic@reddit
Depends on context, as long as you're not doing it in a demeaning way
Jeffuk88@reddit
No idea if its okay because ive seen females get offended for being called women and girls in similar context so 🤷♂️
lilphoenixgirl95@reddit
I’m a woman, 30 years old, and I personally never say either girls nor boys. Not even really ”guys”, I only use that when I’m being dramatic with my friend whilst storytelling. I would just say “the X team” or something.
But also I’ve been ostracised in almost every role for not knowing or willingly conforming so social norms here in England so you probably shouldn’t listen to me..
Ok_Cow5684@reddit
It's commonplace, but some people view it as sexist, particularly in a workplace context. The women in the accounting department might be OK with it, but I would avoid it in case they're not.
Zealousideal-Yam3169@reddit
In what way is this sexist when we do the same thing with men/lads/boys?
teerbigear@reddit
Men is the odd one out there isn't it? Lads and boys describe children.
First, people do this less.
Second, it would still be patronising to those men.
Zealousideal-Yam3169@reddit
What's your source on "people do this less"?
I've never heard anyone say "the men" it almost always "the lads" and to a lesser extent "the boys".
So if it's patronising to all genders why is it specifically sexist?
teerbigear@reddit
The source is my own lived experience of jobs. I can't offer you a study can I? And neither you me.
And you're right, if you patronise everyone equally then you're not sexist. But you'd be unpopular for other reasons.
I would also suggest that the women you want to pointlessly infantalise won't know that you also infantalise men, so will assume you're being sexist.
But you go for it.
Zealousideal-Yam3169@reddit
Ahhhh your lived experience, that's solves that then.
Why would my friends think I'm being sexist for using the term that we all use all of the time?
You need to get out more. Not everything is a HR complaint.
teerbigear@reddit
At work you call people "the girls"?
Recidivist67@reddit
Your brain has been destroyed by your office work environment
teerbigear@reddit
Do you prefer to work somewhere sexist?
Jondazefreakofnature@reddit
Chill out girl, jeeez.
teerbigear@reddit
Jeez nuts
lilphoenixgirl95@reddit
I laughed thanks lol
Zealousideal-Yam3169@reddit
Yes. "The girls in the office", "the girls in dispatch", "the lads in the workshop" etc. pretty standard
teerbigear@reddit
Ha "how can I possibly be sexist when the people in my ridiculously gendered workplace don't mind". Funny.
The reality is you don't know how they feel about it. You haven't asked. They're not about to say if that behaviour is normalised are they?
But I appreciate you'll ignore me, assume you can read their minds, and carry on doing it, without a thought.
Zealousideal-Yam3169@reddit
What a wet wipe.
KesselRunIn14@reddit
This thread is confusing the hell out of me. We always get referred to as "the boys in IT". If a department is entirely one gender it's just a casual way of referring to them. I genuinely dont see the problem.
Staracacia19@reddit
Not nearly as common though. ‘The girl working in the coffee shop’ sounds normal ‘the boy working in the coffee shop’ sounds weird
Death_God_Ryuk@reddit
Often it's girls/guys instead of girls/boys.
klausness@reddit
Yes, but that’s sexist. “Guy” refers to any male person (adult or child), whereas “girl” refers to a female person who is a child. Referring to men as boys and women as girls is not sexist. Referring to men as guys and women as girls is sexist, because for only one of the genders are you referring to adults as children.
Death_God_Ryuk@reddit
Oh, I definitely agree in a workplace/formal context. I'm just mentioning the other way it's used informally that's a bit different.
travelingwhilestupid@reddit
You know you could guess, or you could straight up them.
MediocreFudge9570@reddit
not safe to just "straight up" someone at work. that's a whole new complaint to HR.
travelingwhilestupid@reddit
pff, no. depends how you do it.
MissionLet7301@reddit
Yeah, in a work setting it's derogatory at worst and unprofessional at best.
It's definitely commonplace though - I try and make an effort not to do it but because it's so common it does sometimes slip out. I don't think the expectation is to be perfect with avoiding saying 'girls' when referring to a group of women but it's definitely odd when someone only ever says girl/girls when referring to women.
RadiantSeason9553@reddit
I think my boss uses Ladies and Guys, but I don't think I would have a problem with Girls and Boys. I mean we are girls. But then I have like 6 people working in my office
Illustrious-Milk6518@reddit
It’s not derogatory lol. Saying that as a woman. I wouldn’t automatically assume that people had horrible intentions by saying it
NayLay@reddit
Exactly. Although in the same breath they will say that boys isn't derogatory (it isn't).
SlaBLister@reddit
Reminder that reddit ≠ real life. This is beyond true for UK reddit. Do you have an issue with saying "females"?
Weirfish@reddit
The use of a diminutive term with a power dynamic is demeaning and belittling, literally. Without that power dynamic, it's a sign of casual-ness and familiarity. The issue comes, in this specific case, when you're looking at workplaces where the spectre of historic sexism (and the threat of present sexism) looms large over the environment.
The same might be true of a female higher-up talking about "the boys in the dev team" or whatever, but the historic context of misogynistic sexism specifically changes the context a bit. It's easier to assume a misplaced familiarity than a disregard there (though we should be mindful that individual women can be just as dismissive of individual men, as individual men can be of women; population statistics do not apply to individuals).
If it's a close team, if those people have been there forever, if they're cool with it and share in that closeness and feel comfortable that the power dynamic isn't a significant factor in the context, there's not really anything wrong with it. Even if the speaker misjudges their audience and doesn't have the privilege of familiarity, if they have an earnt reputation for being a good person, they deserve the benefit of the doubt, I think.
Recidivist67@reddit
Depends on the work setting. In the fluorescent lit, hamster wheel purgatory of the office then sure.
But literally anywhere else that slightly resembles the human experience - nah.
levezvosskinnyfists7@reddit
I had a colleague who was a typical right-on vegan millennial type who kept referring to “the new girls” when talking about two people who were joining our department at a higher level than her. It sounded odd to say the least…
Recidivist67@reddit
Worlds gone mad. Genuinely the amount of time wasted on this bullshit is incredible.
Capitalist champions would do well to completely remove these entirely made up barriers of "professionalism" and productivity would explode.
Odd-Quail01@reddit
Would it be less weird if the new girls were junior?
I'm a physically small woman in my 40s. I really don't like being called a girl at work. Specifically at work.
ClickEmergency@reddit
Alright so here’s some context for you . Saying you’re dating a girl is fine . Say you’re going to the park to checkout girls not good .
Claire4Win@reddit
Yeah. Saying 'I am having a night out with the women' is weird me.
Same with boys
Weekly_Beautiful_603@reddit
I am having a night out with the females of the species.
lawrekat63@reddit
We had a equality and diversity meeting at work and ended up at adult females
williw5495@reddit
Females always sounds a bit clinical tho no?
Amazing-Heron-105@reddit
I've been told by some on reddit that's an incel word and to not use it. Must be an age thing cuz this is something I'd never come across except for Reddit.
williw5495@reddit
Yeah I would take it as quite incel-like too tbh. I used to see it as a scientific reference to women but now with modern cultural context it is unfortunately associated with the incel mindset .
Weekly_Beautiful_603@reddit
Oh, I do too. It wasn’t a genuine suggestion. There’s a Kipling poem, and (for those of a certain age) a song by the band Space that say “the female of the species is more deadly than the male”.
As a female myself, I can confirm that I will bite a man’s head off when irked.
OkConsideration5272@reddit
Or just "women"?
No_transistory@reddit
More deadly than the males, no doubt.
Impossible-Chair2195@reddit
Shock shock horror horror
Fentonata@reddit
Now 34
DopeAsDaPope@reddit
Why not a day out!? TIMEIST!!!!
kh_ram@reddit
Don't say 'with the girls' that sounds creepy instead say, 'I'm having a night out with the females'
Sutraner@reddit
No, no, no.
You have to do it in the traditional British manner
And, on Friday nights, the human females gather for their traditional social rituals of ingesting far too much rose, and making the crucial mistake of wearing high heels on the paved streets of Clapham
HarketSavoy@reddit
Actually, referring to women as “females” is far far worse. It’s derogatory. The people who use it are incels who put a lower tone so it implies that women are like cockroaches.
riftlantern@reddit
can you not tell he's obviously joking?
HarketSavoy@reddit
I kinda saw it afterwards.
Fair-Lobster8416@reddit
That sounds even more weird
kh_ram@reddit
I know lol, forgot I was on reddit and all irony is lost
West-Season-2713@reddit
I think it comes down to whether or not you could use ‘boys’ in the same way. Also I’d hesitate to call an individual woman a girl.
mankytoes@reddit
I was told off for calling the England women's team "girls", I said some of the guys I play football with are in their fifties and when we play they are always "boys".
Uhurahoop@reddit
Yeah same for ‘girls’ night in’.
RoutineAbroad3486@reddit
It’s ladies night, you know 🥂
Metholis@reddit
Oh what a night!
970souk@reddit
Late December back in sixty three
BuzzAllWin@reddit
Very diff connotations
Dutch_Slim@reddit
To me, ladies night happens at the swimming pool. No men or kids allowed.
The_Mayor_Involved@reddit
To me, it's Cinatra's where ladies get in for £2 cheaper than men
polodabear2001@reddit
On disco lights your name will be seen 🕺
WildWanderingRedHead@reddit
we just say ladies night
Admirable-Wedding-35@reddit
Context and tone matter but as a woman (24) I use “girls” all the time in place of women. I think it’s largely generational in my case but yes there can be a sneering/condescending undertone depending on the conversation
Equivalent_Bag_6960@reddit
if you know the difference between a woman and a girl, why would you want to call a woman a girl?
Nettinonuts@reddit
Girls just wanna have fun!
DV865@reddit
If you are male they will hate it, and then refer to each other as "girls" the next moment.
Nettinonuts@reddit
That shows that context matters, which I think we can all agree on.
Shannoonuns@reddit
Depends on context and tone.
"Girls" tends to be for younger women, it can be used in an ironic playful way to describe older women or in a demeaning and condescending way.
Like playful/ironic would be like a group of older women calling themselves "the girls"
At work it can be demeaning and condescending but not necessarily.
For example Im 31, I work with a girl in her early 20s and the at work people in thier late 40s call us the "girls". I don't normally get called a girl anywhere else but I think its fine in that context because im younger than them and im being grouped with a younger woman.
I have also been called a "silly girl" at a job and that was 100% condescending. I was in my mid 20s at the time so it wasn't like I was too old to be called a girl but regardless of your age, "girl" can be used in a patronising condescending tone or context too.
Im guessing your example is more like my first example and I want to say its probably fine.
KeefsCornerShop@reddit
I think people should stop.over-analysing words.
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
Or, even better, stop using words that denigrate?
Wolfstar_Forever_@reddit
I mean, I call my peer group or women in maybe their 20s girls. Once people are say older 30s or in a position of authority I'm more likely to say women. It also depends on context. Like if it's a formal thing, I'm probably saying women unless I'm talking about a child.
Express-Safe-7584@reddit
Is it so hard to just say women? What a stupid question
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
You might want to read the hundreds of answers with so many different views, often based on how women feel about how they are often treated by men. It's not an ideal world, "stupid" questions reveal a lot of complexity.
frosting_the_bowl@reddit
Yes, it is.
GarageIndependent114@reddit
How old are the girls in accounting, and what about the boys in accounting?
Bossman_Mike@reddit
Younger women, yes (maybe up to 25 or so).
crispycat40@reddit
Personally, I do not like it when I’m referred to as a girl. I’m 41.
Altruistic_Ad5444@reddit
Not ok with me but unfortunately it happens a lot and many people think it's fine. I hate it. It's old fashioned and sexist.
Inner-Purple-1742@reddit
I find it offensive & creepy when adults refer to adults as girls and boys! It’s weird, why would you call an adult woman a girl? In what context or scenario would that be normal? 🤷🏼♀️ would you call a clearly adult dog a puppy?
Live-Scientist7069@reddit
Stunning level of banality. Well done you
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
Would you explain, please?
Successful_Cry9885@reddit
AgnesTait@reddit
Just call everyone guys
yahyahyehcocobungo@reddit
Generally avoid it.
paradoxbound@reddit
Context and who says it is everything. I am a white middle aged male and would never use the term. Use gender neutral language and avoid any hint of blame. Folks is my go to phrase for describing any group people. Some dinosaur from the c-suite could get away with it but you don’t sound like c-suite. Some older women may find it acceptable and slightly flattering but don’t risk it. Everyone is folks, play safe.
Humble-Nobody-9558@reddit
The real answer is it depends on the culture of the place.
Any-Government3191@reddit
Well, when women refer to each other in groups as "Guys!", my starting point is confused.
MixPlus@reddit
As someone else said, the contact is everything. It is ok for women to refer to themselves as girls. My friends and I have girls' nights out.
SpaceSquirrl@reddit
I am British and know that I should refer to myself as a woman rather than a girl (I’m 30), but I actually feel like calling myself a woman sounds too formal. Where I’m from, I think people tend to use “boys and girls” interchangeably with “male and female”. Like I am a woman-aged girl 😂
Ladies and gents are perhaps softer words to use for adults?
I’m curious to know if anyone else feels this way!
TwoPlyDreams@reddit
It’s the accounting department.
electric--eskimo@reddit
Lads and lasses!
pm_me_your_amphibian@reddit
Depends on context for sure. Essentially - Don’t call women girls if you’re not going to call men boys in the same context.
Mendel247@reddit
I teach ESL and this is what I tell my students, and I correct them if they say girl for a woman. If the person is too old to be called a boy if they're male, then they're also too old to be called a girl.
StudySpecial@reddit
This is UK - I'd say if you'd be comfortable referring to men as 'lads' in the same context (which is also often used for older men in some contexts), 'girls' for women could also be appropriate.
hopefullyhelpfulplz@reddit
Boys/girls, lads/lasses imo. Though you hear lasses a lot less than lads, and girls a lot more than boys...
PetersMapProject@reddit
"Lad" suggests teenagers or younger men, while "girl" strongly suggests you're referring to a child.
Own-Jeweler3169@reddit
Not really, lad also refers to 'boy', whether young or older, you're just making things up to draw a distinction where there isn't one. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/lad
Solution: Ladette?
PianoMountain@reddit
There was a show called Ladette to Lady.
That show....didn't exactly have the best message
Impossible_Gas_7584@reddit
In Ireland 'lads' just means anyone, male or female. That will really confuse OP.
woodyeaye@reddit
I think it's a bit different as that's individual. A lad could be any age. Lads for kids is often used with a qualifier or context. Like the examples in your link - young lads or lads and lasses.
'Lads' as a group is generally for adults unless stated otherwise. Alright lads, out with the lads, a group of lads.
It's regional of course, in Scotland the lads could be out on the playground. But if we're talking as a general UK term.
There are girls who use ladette to take the piss but I think generally people would use guys. Covers all bases.
pintsized_baepsae@reddit
Lass, but seeing as that's only really used in Scotland, I'll accept being called a ladette 😂
sabretoooth@reddit
The respective term would be “gal”, I guess.
pm_me_your_amphibian@reddit
Guys and gals would be the pair?
cyberllama@reddit
Guys and Dolls, of course
Final_Anybody_3862@reddit
Lass.
woodyeaye@reddit
Depends on where you live I guess. 'Girls' for my area can be a group of 60+ women. It doesn't seem to have an age limit.
You can also be 'out with the boys' and nobody will think you're parting at the local primary.
hopefullyhelpfulplz@reddit
This is an excellent rule of thumb
Raven-Nightshade@reddit
It's rather informal so depends on the boundaries of who you're speaking too/about. Generally I prefer to say "the ladies in accounting" to use your example, you can't go wrong with that.
mando_number5@reddit
Women will refer to themselves as girls, but hate on men when they use the phrase, especially older men as they fit the stereotype of someone to be sexist etc.
I saw it happen one of the old partners at a firm got berated for saying “the admin girls” which were literally ladies who were in the admin department.
I then overheard some of the same ladies saying “let’s head out girls” and other sentences using the phrase “girls”. Ludicrous
eciton90@reddit
As a 40ish year old man in the workplace, I hate it when people do this. I find it patronising, diminishing, and also that it erases individuality of the people in those teams.
Grandmuffmerkin@reddit
I'm so sick of this terminally online, over analytical naval gazing.
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
Yes or no would've sufficed.
Grandmuffmerkin@reddit
Sorry, I know I'm grumpy and it's not the question it's the answers. Always so militant, always so sure, always so judgemental of those who say the opposite. In the real world, some people like it, some people don't like it, most don't care all that much as long as you're not trying to be a dick.
ValleyView7@reddit
“Girls” or “Ladies” is fine by me, however, I can’t abide “Guys” when it includes females. It sounds so fake & American 🥴
Desperate_Cook_7338@reddit
Yes it is. Quite normal here to refer to them as girls or the Bois. Haha
Dry-Teaching-5040@reddit
Too much navel gazing nowadays about things like this that really don't matter. A symptom of our decline. Preferably accept it in the spirit intended. If not, hear it and move on.
TheDarkestStjarna@reddit
From my point of view, not in a work context. I'm not a girl, I'm a professional, hard working adult and it's respectful to refer to me that way.
Hyperion2023@reddit
No it is not. It’s infantilising
chadgalaxy@reddit
Probably should tell women to stop infantilising themselves then because my entire social media feed is women calling themselves 'girlies'
West-Season-2713@reddit
Using a diminutive for yourself and your friends is fine, it’s casual and used to be affectionate or cute. If you’re using it to refer to a professional colleague or just another woman, it’s demeaning, because it’s a diminutive.
Hyperion2023@reddit
They are at liberty to call themselves whatever they want. I’ll call myself all sorts of things but what someone else would refer to me as, and what is generally acceptable terminology in a professional setting is a different matter.
Some people including me can call their own mum a d’head to her face…. that doesn’t mean I’m going to go round referring to other people’s mums the same way.
MrReadilyUnready@reddit
It's heavily dependent on the context.
redandbluebadness@reddit
indeed, I wouldn't say the girls in accounts because it sounds patronising. I would say the girls in hr though. For the same reason.
ColtAzayaka@reddit
"Girls and boys" if you're wanting equality. You have to be condescending to everyone in equal amounts. /s
Hyperion2023@reddit
The person is asking for a general rule to follow. So yes it depends on asking an individual or group, or following the lead with those specific people
leclercwitch@reddit
Is it? I’m 30 and my girls are everything to me. I do not call them “my women” that’s really strange. They’re my closest friends as if I would infantilise them
Hyperion2023@reddit
They did ask the question with the workplace as an example, and were asking as a broad rule- so my response was in line with this.
What you call your excellent pals is none of my business!
RoutineAbroad3486@reddit
That’s a new one 😴😴
Hyperion2023@reddit
If you’re tired, go an have a lie down babe
glasgowgeg@reddit
"Girls" are typically children, adults would be women.
That's why a typically address would be "Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls".
AuramiteEX@reddit
You don't know any women
AskUK-ModTeam@reddit
Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people.
Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people. AskUK contains a variety of ages, experiences, and backgrounds - consider not everyone is operating on the same level or background as you. Listen to others before you respond, and be courteous when doing so.
william_h_bonney_@reddit
Sweetheart, duck, darlin’ and the rest are all terms of endearment.
horn_and_skull@reddit
Absolutely not. Thanks, A British Woman
kb-g@reddit
Entirely depends on context.
Referring to my friends as “the girls” is fine, despite the fact we’re all middle aged.
Referring to the all-female reception team as “the girls” is condescending.
Monkeybradders@reddit
Girls are 12
Many-Operation653@reddit
It depends. "Going out with the girls" Fine. "Good morning, girls" to work colleagues? Comes off maybe infantilising
Wooden-Attention-261@reddit
I don't really mind but I would warn against calling anyone "madame." It doesn't matter who says it, it just sounds vaguely insulting.
Consistent_Wonder509@reddit
At best it’s cringe At worst it’s misogynistic infantilising
Financial_Ad240@reddit
Yes that’s the norm in the UK
Far-Hospital-9961@reddit
I don’t like it myself. I’ve start calling men boys in similar contexts, just to even the field.
Logical_fallacy10@reddit
It used to be fine to call a woman - lady - woman - girl. But since the political correct police arrived - everything has to be scrutinized - and it’s getting really old. Being back freedom of speech.
JohnCasey3306@reddit
It's an odd thing to want to do
WildWanderingRedHead@reddit
I don't like being called a girl (I'm 20s) but it is so commonplace there is not a lot I can do. If you drilled deeper you'd find plenty of us who don't actually like it though.
Blind_Warthog@reddit
I don’t think drilling the girls deeper would be appropriate.
MediocreFudge9570@reddit
if they approve........
WildWanderingRedHead@reddit
what a stupid comment.
Blind_Warthog@reddit
Lmao ouch
Much-Psychology9261@reddit
She is correct.
Demostravius4@reddit
Did you just assume their gender?
Much-Psychology9261@reddit
another example of how women’s concerns get trivialised in mixed‑gender conversations.
Blind_Warthog@reddit
Trivialising a trivial matter over whether it’s wrong to say girl. Woe is me.
AvatarIII@reddit
Do you feel it's different to be called "a girl" Vs "one of the girls"? I don't think I would ever call a woman a girl, but I might use "girls" as a collective noun for a group of women that I'm friendly with.
WildWanderingRedHead@reddit
As I said, girls collective is pretty commonplace. I don't personally like it or use it but equally I'm not going to cry about it or be offended. As people have rightly pointed out - context matters as does the power dynamic behind it. It certainly has been weaponised to infantilise women - particularly in the workplace. Calling women, women, is just more neutral and correct and to me it denotes a bit more respect and equality.
Curious-Term9483@reddit
Yep. I am a 46 year old woman. I am an expert in my field. I have 2 children and a mortgage. What I don't have is time for anyone's shit ;) But having said that, I will definitely make time for drinks with the girls.
WowThisIsAwkward_@reddit
Me neither. I don't really mind it as much if people who know me refer to me as such (usually in a humorous way), but anyone else, absolutely not. I’m in my 20s, I am a grown woman.
superleah2000@reddit
I’m 26 and I feel really weird when I’m called a “woman”. It’s just a personal preference but I feel much more comfortable being called a girl. I had some issues growing up and I still feel like a child inside a lot of the time, I don’t really view myself as a “woman”, so I feel better when someone refers to me as a girl. What’s annoying is when people will insist that all adult females (or people identifying as female) MUST be called women, but those same people insist that we must call trans/non binary identifying people what they prefer to be called. Why can’t that apply to adult women who prefer to be called girls as well?
Clem_Crozier@reddit
Context is important.
At a wedding, probably fine. At a funeral, probably not.
Background_Ad5513@reddit
Definitely not in a workplace or formal event, otherwise depends on context. And also I guess their age? I tend to just default to “ladies” or “women”
Alpacasmile@reddit
At work I'd prefer "ladies". I'd be happy for a friend to call us "the girls" or "my girls" but when I'm being professional I'd like a bit more respect.
CountryBlue87@reddit
I'm in my late 30s and a man of similar age called me "little girl" at work the other day. I wanted to throw up. 'Girl' itself doesn't annoy me all that much but it very much depends on context and who's saying it.
Riceguy691238@reddit
I think its ok but some girls can get annoyed
Sad-Nectarine-7855@reddit
Yes and no.
I call the ladies at the football club girls, I would never call the women i emply girls.
Outrageous-Level192@reddit
No it isn't. It's just that men keep doing it.
mmm095@reddit
uk slang for men and women is usually "guys and girls" so while it is a bit sexist perhaps that we don't say "boys" as much as "girls", we don't really say "men" in an informal conversation, just like we wouldn't say "women". using your workplace example, it would be just as strange to say "the men in accounting" we'd just say "the guys in accounting" (imho)
that being said, if it's a younger grp referring to other young people, it's not uncommon to use "boys" too. I personally still refer to many people over 18 as boys.
mmoonbelly@reddit
Lads and lasses….
mmm095@reddit
guys and girls is a bit more universal I reckon
lionmoose@reddit
I mean maybe but I think the phrase is used to alliterate with little thought beyond that
mmm095@reddit
agreed tbh
abyssal-isopod86@reddit
Is it ok? No, it's infantilising women and it form of misogyny.
Is it done? Yes because we are a patriarchal society.
Clothes_Chair_Ghost@reddit
They prefer the term bints or munters. Those are terms of endearment in the U.K.
Obvious-Maximum-8999@reddit
I wouldn't use "girls" at work however in my immediate team (which is mixed men and women) we have a good relationship and I would say "girls, where are we eating OR jeff, get the girls some chairs" to refer specifically to the women collectively. It's a hard nuance for me to discern but I think the difference is in that context it's more like a nickname for a subset of the group rather than a generic term reflecting their gender.
Indigo-Waterfall@reddit
In a professional setting I would find it inappropriate / patronising to be called “girls”
Automatic-Pie-111@reddit
Restaurant with group of girlfriends last week, waiter asks ok girls are we ready to order, what's wrong with that, we're all middle aged women but take no offence.
DopeAsDaPope@reddit
If you're from abroad just know that modern Brits will get offended about anything. As long as you stay here, you're in a minefield
D0wnb0at@reddit
Girls/boys instead of Women/men HUGELY depends on context. “Off out with the boys/girls” - fine. “Those boys/girls don’t know what they are doing” - bad.
You can use girls/boys as playful, but you can use it as derogatory like the people you are speaking about are children.
Men/women = authoritative. Boys/girls = down playing, youthful.
ChrisToonarmy@reddit
If in doubt just say ladies
ButteredNun@reddit
From a man it sounds sexist and infantilizing
SlaBLister@reddit
You aren't gonna get your leg over for being a simp, buddy
Less_Duty7681@reddit
Absolutely not in a work context.
SlaBLister@reddit
I still say "females" and nobody takes issue, including females themselves. You made a bit of a mistake asking reddit this question
Spectrum_16@reddit
Just depends honestly, at work? Probably infantilising.
Outside of work though and with people you actually know then saying "me and the girls/boys" sounds much more normal than "me and the women/men"
SlaBLister@reddit
I refer to them as females. I also say males, so don't get triggered
poshbakerloo@reddit
I say "girls and guys" but context is important.
Hyperion2023@reddit
Honestly this is a perfect example of the false equivalency ‘but if I say boys, the men don’t mind’
The men aren’t subjected to being frequently talked down to and undermined in the world of work, especially in certain environments. The reason women often don’t want to be referred to as girls is that it comes across as patronising.
The same doesn’t apply to ‘boys’ which is seen as jokey and doesn’t hit a nerve in the same way.
It’s important to note - some women don’t mind - and you can always ask, depending on circumstances, but if you’re asking for a general rule to follow, that’s my advice.
klausness@reddit
Best answer here.
CapitanAI@reddit
This is it exactly BUT I'd add that while men won't mind if I say "the boys in sales" they will think I'm a bit off.
"The girls in sales" makes you think of young blonde kind of silly people. The "women in sales" makes you think of capable professionals.
OkConsideration5272@reddit
Yes. I hated it as a student health professional (and a mature student too) when a male member of staff told a patient, "I'll leave you with the girls" (me, my educator and another registered professional). Really undermined our work.
Mind you, it would have been just as bad had we been three unregistered workers. We were all women there to do a job.
OkConsideration5272@reddit
Exactly. The false equivalences on this thread have been all too sadly predictable.
silentcities@reddit
The only person who gets it in this thread.
I work in a male dominated industry where sexism is rife. I absolutely won't accept 'the girls' being said in referral to myself and the other women in the team, even in a 'harmless' way, when we already deal with systemic sexism on the daily here. No one here would refer to 'the boys' in a department, it would be 'the guys' or 'the blokes', so we shouldn't be referred to as 'the girls'.
Staracacia19@reddit
Also, I think calling a grown woman (singular) a girl is much more common than calling a singular grown man a boy
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
So you would refer to the male CEO of a large company as a boy?
No_Sugar8791@reddit
A male ceo would absolutely love being called one of the boys
Blind_Warthog@reddit
What would the CEO of a large company do if I did call them a boy? Scary!
Hyperion2023@reddit
No, I’m saying neither is acceptable.
But that the reason why a lot of men say ‘I don’t mind being referred to as a boy’ is because it doesn’t carry the weight of condescension and being undermined or not taken seriously that ‘girl’ does.
It’s a bit like men saying ‘well I wouldn’t mind being catcalled / wolf whistled’ - the dynamic is a little different, it’s not directly equivalent. But again, I’d say neither is appropriate, certainly not in a work situation
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
👍
ribenarockstar@reddit
If I had any way to give you an award for this answer, I would have
Fair_Comfortable6561@reddit
It’s fine.
JensonInterceptor@reddit
Nah you should always call them Females.
"Any Females here?" Etc shit on it
VerbingNoun413@reddit
r/AskFerengi is that way, Quark.
Suspicious-Rub8976@reddit
You do know what a man's erection is don't you
maceion@reddit
Context. My wife age 86 refers to going out 'with the girls', when she and her Women's Institute friends forgather.
Booleanpuzzlehead@reddit
Calling adult women girls can be used to do a few different things.
One of those is to belittle them and you should be careful of that.
However, it can be used to show that you are personally in a close relationship with people. Women will sometimes call their female friends ' the girls'. Unless you are a woman and it's a strictly off the clock situation, it is a bit cringe. Most people won't assume you are sexist because you use it, but it is a bit embarrassing/outdated and marks you as being 'of a certain age'.
Pyjama365@reddit
If one of my girls is doing it, yeah it's fine.
If my boss is doing it, he'll no, it infantilising. Same for shitty men in the pub.
The attitude of people saying it, towards the people they're saying it about, matters. I would feel fine about a male partner asking if I was "having the girls over" for my birthday or something.
srnic1987@reddit
I use it all the time.
MidasToad@reddit
If a woman wants to use 'girls' to refer to herself and her friends, that is fine.
A man should not refer to adult women as girls, especially not in a work context. It happens, and it is a misogynistic micro-aggression.
(It's aligns with other social rules about ownership of derogatory words - you can use them on yourself)
undoneyet@reddit
My friends find being referred to as girls a lot less offensive than being referred to as Ladies.
Forward-Swimmer-8451@reddit
I don't see a problem with it
BlackberryMelodic567@reddit
I'd recommend not, maybe because it can be seen as infantlising. Would you call men boys?
Worth_Kangaroo_6900@reddit
Nope. It is not ok in a professional context. Or even social unless it’s a ‘girls night out’. It’s infantilising in a work context and really not ok to refer to grown women as a girl / girls as a group.
unknown_ally@reddit
I've decided to be cautious and say women for 18 and over. Because there's a problem with people actually thinking of 20yo females as children sometimes it's just wrong.
Common-Hotel-9875@reddit
depends on context - "ladies" might be a safer option
Fit_Two8273@reddit
behave, of course it’s fine. what would you say if someone called you “pet”? That’s both normal and common in many places…
spoonfulofswift@reddit
the correct term is girlypops
CopperRockQueen@reddit
Nope, it's not ok. You're absolutely right, it is incredibly jarring and irritating to be called a 'girl' as a grown woman. One of my pet peeves.
bookschocolatebooks@reddit
According to our work equality and diversity training, it's not acceptable to refer to colleagues as girls - however as my manager at the time said "well what am I supposed to call you, my bitches?"
So as everyone said, very much dependant on the situation and relationship with the person; as someone I don't know calling me girl would probably be condescending.
National_Wallaby_820@reddit
The fact this is even a conversation shows how petty and ridiculous we’ve become as a society. Context is king but no one except the most ridiculous person on earth is getting upset by the term “girls”.
ukbot-nicolabot@reddit
A top level comment (one that is not a reply) should be a good faith and genuine attempt to answer the question
Hyperion2023@reddit
Until you’ve been ignored and undermined repeatedly in the workplace on the sole basis of your gender, stfu little boy
UnacceptableUse@reddit
!dick
glasgowgeg@reddit
If you're in a professional environment and saying "men" and "girls", do you not see how that can be considered infantilising?
National_Wallaby_820@reddit
Just asked the office. 50 staff here and 30 of them are “girls”. Consensus is that none of them give a shit. Got a few jokes back like “wish that’s the worst thing people called me” etc.
Lads/girls/guys etc is completely normal.
Despite what Reddit would have you believe, 99.99% of successful women won’t give a shit about what they’re referred to as. It’s only the losers who make a big deal about it all.
glasgowgeg@reddit
That was quick, but when they exist purely within your head I suppose you can do it in as fast a time as you want.
National_Wallaby_820@reddit
Believe what you want. Very easy from my Reddit history to work out who I am and find me on Linkedin
glasgowgeg@reddit
Just added an edit to my comment as you were replying, here it is again.
Looks like 33% of women consider it unacceptable for men to refer to women as "girls".
Are you saying 33% of women are losers?
National_Wallaby_820@reddit
Yes.
glasgowgeg@reddit
A bit sexist for you to think 1/3rd of all women are losers based on considering it unacceptable to call women "girls".
I'd have liked YouGov to go into a bit more detail there, because I reckon that the "It is usually acceptable, with some exceptions" may have the exceptions being in a professional environment.
National_Wallaby_820@reddit
It was a silly question so I gave you a silly answer. Although I’d probably say more than 33% of men and women could fall into the loser category in one way or another.
My office anecdote isn’t going to be gospel either, our office is probably more “right leaning” than what you’d find generally. We’re a sales office. Go ask an office for the local council and you’d get completely different replies I guess.
We’ve had similar discussions in the office before. The women’s take usually tends to be that they dislike very vocal far left leaning women thinking they get to “speak for all of us”.
glasgowgeg@reddit
It wasn't a silly question, it was a serious question based on the observed percentage of women who object to the term.
Correct, because you made it up in your head.
Don't you mean "the girls"?
National_Wallaby_820@reddit
Attempted to have a reasonable conversation with you but it went all Reddit so I’ll step back from this one.
glasgowgeg@reddit
~~Attempted to have a reasonable conversation with you but it went all Reddit~~ can't substantiate my claims so I’ll step back from this one
FTFY
glasgowgeg@reddit
A bit sexist for you to think 1/3rd of all women are losers based on considering it unacceptable to call women "girls".
I'd have liked YouGov to go into a bit more detail there, because I reckon that the "It is usually acceptable, with some exceptions" may have the exceptions being in a professional environment.
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
From what I'm reading here, a lot of women feel belittled, infantilized in the workplace when referred to as girls by someone in power. Are you saying empathy is a bad thing in UK society? We shouldn't care about women's feelings and implied career prospects even as they feel put down?
Jo_Doc2505@reddit
I'm turning 50 next week and I still hate being referred to as a 'lady' instead of a 'girl' 🧑🦳😕
real_justchris@reddit
If you go to the doctors and when you are done with your appointment and the (always old male) doctor says “speak to the girls and book a follow up” then this is highly unacceptable because it assumes the role of a receptionist is a female role.
If you say there were a bunch of girls being rude at the bar, then that’s slightly more acceptable, but I’ll assume the people you’re talking about are young.
I can’t think of an occasion where it would to be weird for you to refer to women as girls in any context, but I think that would be true in any language.
Appreciate “filles” in French or “chicas” in Spanish doesn’t carry the same baggage. In English it does and it’ll sound patronising or things-old-men-say dated.
Friendly_Prune_4890@reddit
Context: professional setting, ALWAYS say women or men.
Personal setting, depends on your friendship group or personal preference
Jolly_Report4@reddit
🤦🏻
000817@reddit
Depends on a couple things, mainly tone though. As long as you’re being aggressive, then no one will really care, but generally you won’t call a grown woman a girl if they’re clearly over 30 ish.
KoontFace@reddit
For me as a guy in his late 30s, absolutely not.
flangeflangeflanges@reddit
I couldn’t care less if I’m called a woman or a girl even though I’m so old I’m definitely not a girl.
Ok-Comfortable-3174@reddit
The younger ones sub 40 if together.
Putrid-King751@reddit
In a professional setting, no. Definitely not. In an informal setting it can be okay depending on how you said it. As long as it’s not in an infantilising or sexualised way, it probably wouldn’t be an issue. If you’re not sure, say women. But it’s not necessarily wrong
dreadwitch@reddit
Yes it's ok, it's also OK to refer to men as lads.
Sceptical96@reddit
Simply not appropriate in a work situation or event or anything professional..
I once complained about a government minister, minister of women's affairs, describing the staff in her office as girls
Unprofessional, denigrating and patronising.
In today's workplace women and men are (should be) paid the same and expected to do the same work. Long gone are the misogynistic days of man's job and a job for the office girl.
Using girls to describe women, with the exception of socially, is disrespectful and demeaning and shows an inferred attitude of inequality.imo.
trippykitsy@reddit
just don't say "female" and youre doing better than 80% of the population
No-Clock8123@reddit
The correct term is "ladies" or "young ladies", you heathen.
121daysofsodom@reddit
I just call them my bitches.
Deep_Bat6086@reddit
I personally really hate it, I find it infantilising and sexist (particularly in a workplace setting) and I consciously do not say “girls” to refer to adults. However most of the population wouldn’t agree with me, so to be polite I just go along with it when other people do this
no-user-names-@reddit
Swap the sentence over using the opposite gender and if it’s demeaning then it’s not okay.
Boy / Girl Lad / Lass Man / Woman Gentleman / Lady
And I think anything apart from man / woman is rarely okay in a professional context.
Luckystar60@reddit
No, you call them "M'lady" or even "Ma'am" 😂 joke
discountmerida@reddit
Its used informally and often as an endearment, this is why in some contexts its demeaning/sexist and others its fine.
Unfair_Control_5133@reddit
Anyone my age or below is a Girl. Anyone older than me is a Woman. This will continue until I am an OAP.
AuRon_The_Grey@reddit
In a professional context? No, use women. Referring to your friends? Yeah, usually.
Ordinary-Hamster2046@reddit
Depends on the context. in a casual setting it's usually fine, depending on the work environment it might be seen as offensive. Also bear in mind that we often refer to a group of men as the boys, it's not a sexist thing at all.
bondinchas@reddit
As with many words in English, context and perceived intent is everything.
The problem is English is such a rich language for subtleties of meaning. You can use the exact same words but with different stresses on each word you can vary the meaning between respect, humour, insult, neutrality, insult, sarcasm, and countless other variations.
Meaning, as many comments here show, also depends on the recipient's world view, it's a minefield as you can easily say something that at the same time amuses one person and offends another. It's even worse with written text as the tone and stresses are all lost.
SnowLeopard349@reddit
‘Girls’ is for fun and casual scenarios. ‘Ladies’, ‘women’ or a non gendered term for more formal or professional
It’s totally scenario dependent though - we refer to people at work as ‘girls’ (eg the girls in marketing)
I do also feel the tone and person saying it matters tbh. Sometimes girls is just a term of referencing the group, and especially when said by other women I find it inoffensive. But I can see how it could be viewed as patronising
PerfectPeaPlant@reddit
I find it patronising personally but other women don’t seem to mind so much.
GabberZZ@reddit
If they are under 18 I'd say hey girls is fine.
But over that I'd generally say hey ladies.
Hey women would just be weird.
Fun_Yogurtcloset1012@reddit
It's fine based on context such as going to a girls night out or meeting up with the girls.
We don't need another debate on what is a woman.
morgantorium@reddit
It depends. If you'd call men boys in the same context then it's fine.
txteva@reddit
Context is everything - the best way polite would be "the ladies who work in the accounting department".
If you would also say "the girls who work in the accounting department" and "the boys who work in the accounting department", then that's okay but not if you wouldn't call them boys.
banisheduser@reddit
People who specifically and make quite an effort to use one or the other, in my opinion, are making an issue out of nothing.
For me, they're somewhat interchangeable although I tend to use "girl" when I mean something innocent. I'd never call a young kid a "woman".
No_opinion17@reddit
My friends and I are 30's, 40's and 50's and refer to ourselves and each as girls.
SpaceJkr@reddit
It pisses some women off. Men in the UK never really developed or picked up a feminine word for "guys" imo.
Boys - Girls Guys - Gals(?) Men - Women
If you're a woman, you could use Gals, if you're a guy just call them women if in doubt.
itsibitci@reddit
As a grown adult woman, I would actually MUCH prefer to be referred to as a girl than a "female". Yes I am technically female, but being referred to as one is almost always in a derogatory context, e.g. "females always talk too much". We don't really ever describe men as "males". In my eyes: Woman/women is best, girl/girls is acceptable in certain contexts, female/females will piss me off.
middle_riddle@reddit
Dont do it. It’s extremely patronising.
spidertattootim@reddit
Not generally okay in a professional work environment.
Normally okay in a casual social situation. E.g. a male partner could refer to his female partner as going 'for a girls night out' or 'meeting the girls' without offence being caused.
Brief-Joke4043@reddit
its just like using blokes or similar in that context, like a girls night out. People are offended by everything these days
AFingerInEveryPie@reddit
OK among friends. Patronising if done in the workplace, particularly by an older man. Possibly flattering if describing middle-aged or older women, though.
Still-Wonder-5580@reddit
My boss will say “talk to the girls in the office” to customers. My coworker and I are WAYYYY above girl ages lol we don’t mind 🤷🏼♀️
Eoin_McLove@reddit
I say ‘girls’ quite often but my girlfriend (ironically know I think of it) keeps correcting me to say ‘women’.
I suppose it’s infantilising if you think about it, but it’s not meant like that.
Hyperion2023@reddit
Stop bloody saying it then
Eoin_McLove@reddit
I don’t do it on purpose. I do try to say ‘women’ but ‘girls’ sneaks out occasionally.
Hyperion2023@reddit
It is context and individual dependent but do keep on trying to bear it in mind- for some people it really does make a difference
blueyonderbear@reddit
Not really unless you are all girls on a girls night out. It can be belittling in office/ work situations when you are clearly talking to adults.
fernofry@reddit
"ladies" isnt age restrictive, or you can just say "team" or "people" in a professional setting, it doesnt need to be gendered
Large_Head5821@reddit
At work? No.
DR_95_SuperBolDor@reddit
This is a question I'm very interested in. I do use the word 'girls' to refer to my female colleagues, (we're all 30+) and I use the term 'boys' to refer to my male colleagues too.
I've never had any issues calling a man a boy, but I have had trouble with calling a woman a girl in the past. My current work is fine with it though.
I'm not trying to be sexist in any way, in fact I'm just trying to treat everyone the same way.
I'm actually working in China these days and it's nice to be away from the semantic minefield the UK has become. It's very different living in a country where you're actually free to just say a normal thing without fear of upsetting someone.
EFNich@reddit
If I like the person and dont think they mean anything by it, I don't mind, if I think theyre a creep, I mind.
Alwayslearnin41@reddit
I own a service business and we have men and women who work for us. I detest it when people say "where are the girls today?" Or "I'll make sure I speak to the girls". The women we have working for us are all in their 50s and 60s. I always refer to them as the team, or the staff.
Drstrangelove899@reddit
I call my mostly female team a gaggle of screeching harpies but I wouldn't recommend that.
Girls is fine, most people wouldn't bat an eye if you used it in that context. Those that do would probably find some way to take offense at anything you called them honestly.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
I think if in the same context you’d say boys, or girls and boys it’s fine.
Waits-nervously@reddit
It’s okay to call the female of the species girls if they are under 16 or over 40. Once they are over 60 it is obligatory.
Competitive_Pilot909@reddit
It depends as usual
I’m in an all female team, we refer to ourselves as the girlies, if someone else (particularly a man) said the “girls in X department” I would be offended, because it sounds demeaning. Because one is meant in a fun cute way amongst friends and one makes a team of professionals sound like a gaggle of school girls and that is punching down, especially for anyone more senior
It’s a sexism issue, but as always context is everything
ProfessorPeabrain@reddit
"ladies". can't go wrong with ladies.
oldie349@reddit
No, unless you’re a woman and choose it.
ForeignWeb8992@reddit
Sure, even to be called love by the elderly lady at the cash register is pretty normal
-mmmusic-@reddit
i think for your peers it is okay, but in a professional environment it would be weird.
but if there is a crossover where the 'girls' being referred to are workplace friends, that feels.. fine?
Logical_Bake_3108@reddit
My mum and auntie both in their 60s got a kick out of being called girls when going to a show. If it's in a more business like or formal setting then it might be seen as belittling. Context is key as with many things. Would you feel it was appropriate to call a man a boy in the same situation?
Accurate_Prune5743@reddit
I hate it in a work context, but it is the context that matters.
'The girls are working on X project' said in a meeting is incredibly sexist and patronising.
However, if the same groupnofnpeople were to go out and someone said 'the girls are at the bar' I'd be ok with that.
Please just don't call me a girl at work. I'm a grown ass woman and know what I am doing!
Necessary_Money_9757@reddit
In the UK for whatever reason (probably sexism) it's far more socially acceptable to say "girl" than "boy".
If you're young, it's fine to call people your age as a "girl", for example I'm 21 and I'd say "3 of my housemates are girls" rather than "3 of my housemates are women".
If you're older, I think it's socially acceptable to call people younger than you a girl, especially if you're a woman. My mum is nearly 60 and it would be perfectly reasonable for her to describe anyone under 40 as a girl. My grandma would refer to anyone under 65 as a girl.
I think it's considered quite rude to call someone a generation above you a girl. If a young man referred to a 50 year old woman as a girl, that would probably be seen as disrespectful.
This is a stupid answer but some people can just get away with stuff more than others. If you're an old lady you can basically say whatever you want. If you're a young man don't call people anything. I'm not complaining about "reverse sexism" or anything, I'm just saying that old ladies often sound very nice and genuine and kind when they call someone "love" or "darling" but that just doesn't apply to young men. If I called one of my female friends "love" they'd probably think I was a bit odd, but if their mums called me "love" I wouldn't think anything of it.
Arnoave@reddit
If I would be happy to be referred to as "boy" in a certain context, i.e. "oh Arnoave, he's of the boys from the 3rd floor", then I have no problem also using "girls" in the same context about others. If I would take offense at being called boy in a certain context ("clean that up, boy"), then I avoid using it about others.
The_Real_Pavalanche@reddit
Depends on the recipient. I don't mind it either, but my dad does. We go to the pub for a pint once a week and catch up and when we're finished, we take our glasses back to the bar as we leave and say thanks. The barkeep always "Thanks boys! See you next time!" And as soon as we're outside, my dad says how it bothers him being referred to as a boy. I didn't even give it a second thought, it seemed interchangeable as "lads" or "guys" to me, but it bothers him.
Capr1ce@reddit
At work, girls is disrespectful to many. Some people won't mind, but I in general avoid it.
Outside of work, it's contextual. "Girls night out" for example is fine with most people.
bananabastard@reddit
Women in the UK often refer to themselves as girls.
And men also often refer to themselves as boys.
Women saying they are having a "girls night out" or men saying they're heading "out with the boys", is pretty common.
Impossible_Volume811@reddit
It’s up to women to refer to themselves as girls, in the same way men ‘go for a drink with the boys’ but for a man to do it in the workplace is not advisable.
ejcg1996@reddit
In a work context, I’d avoid. Better to use general words: the people in the accounting department. Girls/guys is more casual. But it still happens.
Bibblejw@reddit
In a work context:
- A group of only females would typically be referred to as women.
- A group of mixed males and females would be either something neutral (folks, peeps, etc.). Other options are possible for less formal.
- A group of only males would typically be referred to as girls.
smedsterwho@reddit
I remember berating myself briefly a few years back for saying to a group of saleswomen "Hey guys" and spending the rest of the day working out whether it's a somewhat gender-neutral word.
nrsys@reddit
I think you will find that a group of males would prefer to be given the respect of being called 'ladies'...
northyj0e@reddit
Probably a northern thing, but groups of men nearly always refer to themselves as 'ladies' when addressing the group directly.
Efficient_Ant_7279@reddit
Peeps doesn’t sound very formal at all.
Good evening ladies and gentlepeeps sounds very wrong
GaryJM@reddit
I am really out of touch with modern workplace culture.
sunofdork@reddit
totally depends where you work, the male workforce where I work get referred to as “the lads” mainly
Winter_is_coming1983@reddit
Typo on the last one - I'm not sure a group of only males would appreciate being referred as "girls" 😃. Though I used to play rugby and sometimes we'd say "hello ladies" to the other men on arrival at training! 😂
Jazzlike_Math_8350@reddit
Had me going, but also true
sunofdork@reddit
Totally depends where you work, the male workforce where I work are mainly referred to as “the lads”. There are only two women on site and we would be called “the girls” if we ever had to be referred to collectively
CatCatCat1111@reddit
I'd probably do it reflexively but I'm the same way, if you asked me about a bunch of guys, I'd call them 'the boys' without thinking too much about it. I can't speak for everyone but for me, I'm conscious it's an artifact of the general casualisation of my language rather than infantilisation
whataboutbenson@reddit
It’s very common, but I personally stopped saying it a few years ago. It can be demeaning. At the end of the day if you’re over 18 you’re an adult. Girl stops being appropriate. You can say young woman if the context requires.
mycatiscalledFrodo@reddit
It annoys me being referred to as "the girls " at work because im 10 years older than the oldest of them, I just refer to them as "the boys" to shut them up, I wouldnt go to HR or anything. I hate it when the media call women girls but then girls underage women, when they really mean children
NotBot34517963@reddit
Depends who you're asking .....
TomL79@reddit
In all honesty, I’ve never really thought about it. I might sometimes refer to a woman or women as a girl or girls, but I’d sometimes refer to a man or men as a boy or boys. But probably not a lot because if I’m
speaking in a more casual or familiar way, I would tend to use Lad(s) and Lass(es) which whilst they mean Boy(s) and Girl(s). In Geordie they get applied to people regardless at to whether they’re 6 or 96. That’s probably why I don’t think too much about the Girl/Boy issue. I’ve never known it be an issue, but maybe I should think about it a little more.
VeryChristoff@reddit
This is a tough one. I'll think about it while i'm out with the boys tonight.
veryordinarybloke@reddit
I think women can say it but not men.
Sacred-Waltz1782@reddit
Yeah this is interesting. I find that somehow if it comes from a much older man then it can come across as patronising, maybe even creepy (tbf can be the same from a younger guy too). Really depends on how it's said as well.
veryordinarybloke@reddit
Absolutely. If I, as an old man, refer to a younger colleague as a girl then that sounds patronising and diminishing their value as a professional. 'Boy' has a quite different connotation because it's more laddish and in a patriarchal society lads are given more licence than girls.
Aggressive-Score2355@reddit
Age matters too, might seem completely normal from a 90 year as you don't expect them to remember or function as a younger-older? man in their 60s.
veryordinarybloke@reddit
Yeah sometimes excuses are made for the elderly who don't know any better. But in the workplace: women and men, not girls and boys.
AuramiteEX@reddit
I say it all the time.
ButteredNun@reddit
Says the single man-boy
AuramiteEX@reddit
I'm married with kids. Most of my friends are women.
But you're free to think what you want. You've confirmed you're alone lol
ButteredNun@reddit
You’re wrong, again
Classic-Wafer-7838@reddit
In a work place, like the example you gave, it feels quite dismissive and it would piss me off. Not enough to complain to HR but I'd remember who'd said it and they'd go down in my estimation.
In more casual language amongst friends, like other people have said ("girls night", "going out with the girls", etc) it bothers me much less.
littlehamster_@reddit
As a woman, it really winds me up when my team is referred to as "girls" by a man. It's patronising and condescending, and brings the idea that we're silly little women doing silly little jobs to keep us busy. "The girls in sales" sounds like the female members of staff are all junior and less than the person talking. But it's different when said by a woman I think, it sounds more like a familiar and friendly word for a woman to refer to her team as "girls". As a general rule in work I tend to think it's better to not think of colleagues as male or female unless their sex has some impact on their job, so not referring to them as girls, boys, men, women. Just colleagues, people, a team.
cheerfulviolet@reddit
This. I briefly worked in an all-women admin team and we all absolutely hated it when others referred to us as "the girls in the office", whether they were men or women, because it felt like they were belittling us and the work we did. The day a man joined the admin team we were all delighted as we could be "the girls in the office" no more, they had to start calling us "the admin team" like we wanted.
Illustrious_Study_30@reddit
I absolutely hate it, and I really hate 'boys' for grown men. It just seems infantilising to me. I think it's quite an individual thing though, some people don't mind it.
Affectionate-Boot-12@reddit
🙋🏻♂️ I’m one of those individuals.
Illustrious_Study_30@reddit
Funnily enough I'm not so worried by 'girrrrrlllll'
So you do you giiiirrrllll
🙌
Affectionate-Boot-12@reddit
But… I’m a 39 year old boy!
Illustrious_Study_30@reddit
...not anymore 😬😁
Spare-Rise-9908@reddit
It's normal and no one intends offence but some people love to take offence where they can and go on moral crusades over pointless things.
Booplutobella@reddit
I tell my older male colleagues its fine to use 'girl' if you'd also use 'boy' in the same setting. E.g I had a chat with the marketing girl...I had a chat with the marketing boy. Sounds like you're talking about someone too young to be in an office when you say 'boy' so don't use 'girl' in that instance.
Realistic-River-1941@reddit
I've only heard female managers do it. It would be risky for a bloke to do it.
BloatedBaryonyx@reddit
Heavily context dependant. If in doubt, use "ladies" not "girls"
Reg_Vardy@reddit
"Laydeez" is better in a formal setting.
Ricky_Martins_Vagina@reddit
Bitchez / honeyz / hoez / etc all equally appropriate 👌🏻
Blind_Warthog@reddit
Thanks Ricky_Martins_Vagina. Very enlightening. The birds in my office prefer bints or wenches. Old school I know.
Mumlife8628@reddit
Girls saying it is ok, men saying it comes across very different... patronising
Missdebj@reddit
I occasionally refer to all my colleagues as “girlies” in front of them, including the one man (I’m 19-46 years older than them) That’s more in a joking sort of way. My workplace is VERY inclusive and I find “people” to be useful. Others use “pals” or “folks”, but they’re generally not gender-specific terms
Specialist-Web7854@reddit
It’s not ok in a work environment. It’s fine in friend groups, but as a general rule, if you’re using the term ‘men’ you should also be using ‘women,’ not ‘girls’.
JasonStonier@reddit
I don't like it, I don't do it, and the vast majority of the women I know don't like it either.
However one of my many hobbies is machine embroidery and I did a limited run of hoodies for my mate who was going on holiday with her female friends, and she wanted a stylised pink logo of a woman drinking wine with "Giggling Girlies" underneath. She said "YOU can't call me a girl, but I can call myself whatever the hell I like my dear..."
So, I'd say it's very context dependent. If in doubt, say "ladies" or, better, "folks".
Brit-Kit@reddit
I'm a woman that uses the term. The best way I can think to sum it up for me is that "women" is the normal term and "girl" is an informal term. Same with "boys" and "men" too. I work with men and women; I'm friends with boys and girls.
Beginning_Meet_4290@reddit
I literally always have said girls and not once have I felt like it means anything different than woman.
Lopsided_Snower@reddit
How do women feel about being called 'lass' or 'lassie'?
TheSecretIsMarmite@reddit
Men in the office referring to "the girls" summons an image of a balding middle aged man who calls his wife "the missus" and plays golf at the weekend to get away from his family.
Basically use with caution, and maybe refer to a group of women in accounting as the ladies in accounting instead.
LolaWithTheGreenEyes@reddit
Its all about nuance. Ladies, women and girls all have their place and the rules are probably hard for a non Brit to understand.
sunofdork@reddit
I feel like, especially with the disagreement in the thread, if anyone’s going to be mad at a second language speaker over this then it’s their problem
LolaWithTheGreenEyes@reddit
We are quite a polite people and wouldn't say anything, its just on social media that people forget their manners.
MissingBothCufflinks@reddit
Id avoid "girls" for non children if in doubt
ArtDifferent448@reddit
I think it’s all contextual. I’d never use it at work but I might use it to refer to friends.
NinjafoxVCB@reddit
Its something that goes both ways, I've heard women refer to men in the work place as boys and as long as both are said casually without any maliciousness behind it then I've never heard anyone get upset over it.
"The girls in HR" "the girls in the office" vs "the boys in the yard" "the boys in the workshop". Vast majority of the time I'd say it's actually positive because it means the workforce are relaxed around each other.
OriginalStockingfan@reddit
If she’s a woman your in a relationship with, fine to call her your girl, assuming you know she’s OK with it. If you a friends group of women, fine to call yourself the girls or go on a girls night out. A group of men would do similar but as the boy etc. If you’re referring to women in a sexual way, no. IMO and legally a woman is of age and can give consent, a girl is not an adult and cannot consent. Here context is important. So you might call your partner a girl in a sexual way, assuming she’s of age. You should never use the term to infer a woman is underage and therefore sexually attractive, or that a girl is some how a young woman and therefore fair game sexually. I know there will be all sorts of arguments put forward on both sides and it’s going to take time to change language use. Maybe we need to stop worrying and just enforce moral/legal/social norms that sex underage by adult men is never acceptable (USA and Epstein friends I point at your leaders and you) . I think Epstein has clarified a need here to treat girls and women by the legal definition and give them the protection they all deserve.
highrouleur@reddit
A good friend of mine is a 53 year old woman. She refers to herself as a girl. I'll take my lead my lead from that until told otherwise.
Probably wouldn't use the term in a professional setting
catzrob89@reddit
Aah, British use of language.
It depend son the tone and context - generally it's the counterpart to "guys" not "boys" (though people will often say "boys" in a similar jocular context) and then it's ok.
It can sound a bit infantilising, but calling people women can sound a bit derogatory and ladies carries a negative implication of poshness. So it's a bit of a minefield and it's important to note tone and intention (and the impact of alternatives).
Extreme-Dream-2759@reddit
I would use "Guys" as a gender neutral, nowadays. If I was talking to either a group of Men only / Women only / Mixed people.
So I disagree that it is Guys and Girls. Even if they did make a film based on this .
glasgowgeg@reddit
Relevant Limmy shows how this would actually go.
sparklybeast@reddit
Why would calling someone a woman ever be derogatory? That's not an opinion I've come across before.
Routine_Ad1823@reddit
It sort of implies older, in some contexts
glasgowgeg@reddit
It implies older than a child, because you'd say "girl" for a child.
glasgowgeg@reddit
It's not though, because "girls" and "boys" are both terms predominantly used to refer to children. "Girls" is the equivalent of "boys".
If I said "Look at those guys over there", you'd likely be looking for a group of adult men, not a group of children.
Why would women sound derogatory?
Acrobatic-Watch-8037@reddit
There's a lot that's culturally OK in the UK, that shouldn't be. When in doubt, always be polite; saying "ladies" instead of "girls" doesn't cost you anything.
MsPB01@reddit
I'm 50, and I still call it 'going out with the girls'
Realistic_Badger_409@reddit
I'm a one of three men where I work. There are about 15 women. "Good morning girls" is what I have said for many years. Nobody has ever given me disapproving looks. The women are middle aged with a couple of exceptions in their 20's. I think it's a case of the people I work with are just friendly and have not been brainwashed.
evies_mum_1980@reddit
I personally hate it. And if someone tells me "good girl" I'll start referring to them as "good boy".
Ladies night. The ladies in the office.
Curious-Term9483@reddit
I would avoid doing this at work. (Probably more acceptable if you are a woman, but definitely not if you are a man!).
Outside of work, saying that someone is "going for a drink with the girls" is usually fine, even if all the ladies in the pub are in their 60s.
Calling an individual grown woman a girl is usually seen as patronising, so probably best avoided.
There's a lot of nuance here so if you aren't sure I would probably find a different phrase just in case.
No_Reference3443@reddit
You will get mixed responses, and probably responses from men... but personally I don't like being referred to as a girl (I'm 37f).
Me and my female colleagues, age range 22 - 60 yrs, get referred to as girls all the time. We're working class receptionists. I might be wrong but I can't imagine a group of women doctors or lawyers or whatever get called girls. It feels somewhat patronising and a subconscious attempt at minimising our authority. It boils my piss actually.
Anansi-the-Spider@reddit
As long as you refer to men as boys
Gekkouga_Stan@reddit
depends on context
lovesorangesoda636@reddit
Yes and no.
In the workplace, I'd say its degrading to call women "girls". It makes them sound juvenile and "lesser" their male colleagues, especially coming from a manger. A few years ago you'd probably hear people saying things like "the checkout girls" and the "guys in the warehouse". While they may seem equal, "guys" isn't used to refer to children whereas "girls" is.
In general chat, you have a bit more wiggle. My husband and I will regularly talk about "girls nights out" or "boys trips", all while referring to adults.
"Girls" is often used because we don't have a feminine equivalent to "guys". "Guys" is a nice, casual way to refer to a group of men regardless of age, there isn't really a similar word to refer to a group of women.
fastestman4704@reddit
Gals is girls for adults isn't it?
Saiing@reddit
Sounds a bit American though.
fastestman4704@reddit
Stop letting Americans take words from you. They're all our words.
lovesorangesoda636@reddit
I've never heard anyone use it - different dialects across the country probably do have terms ("hen" for example) but not sure there's anything as universal as "guys".
Broad-Raspberry1805@reddit
Apparently girls run the world. You can have a girlboss and a girldinner. You can have a girlie night in/out. Etc etc.
But if men say girls the way they say boys they’re sexist pigs.
Great!
glasgowgeg@reddit
The issue is it's not being used in the same way though.
You'd typically hear "the guys in IT", not "the boys in IT", for example.
ButterscotchDeep6187@reddit
I’ve never come across a man at work who would refer to “the boys who work in the accounting department”.
MathematicianOnly688@reddit
Never, really?
How can you tell?
I encounter lots of people every day and no matter how hard I observe them I still haven’t even the vaguest idea whether they’d use the term “the boys” or not.
KEW95@reddit
You really don’t understand the difference between women calling themselves/their friends girls and men calling women girls? The intention and impact is wildly different.
Super_Shallot2351@reddit
Excellent bait
Whithorsematt@reddit
Not really any different to referring to a bunch of gents as lads.
Ok_Win_2592@reddit
Socially - fine to say ‘night out with the girls’. Referring to women in a professional context as girls MAY not offend everyone, but if you’re looking for general guidance please stick to ‘women’ (if you have to define them by gender at all. Colleagues is a better word.) Female is an adjective, never a noun.
nineteenthly@reddit
It's not okay, no, but I don't mind being called a girl sometimes because I'm fifty-eight.
Shirayuri@reddit
If it's in a work context then it's not ok, absolutely not. And while women might not call someone out for it they will notice and remember it (I certainly do).
If it's friends or family it's normally fine, but listen to what the women themselves in the social group use. If they don't refer to themselves as 'the girls' then don't call them that either
fezzuk@reddit
So you wouldnt refer to "the boys in the warehouse"?
Shirayuri@reddit
No I wouldn’t. Firstly, I’m a woman and I’ve worked in a warehouse, they aren’t men only spaces; and secondly they aren’t children. They are men at work. I would maybe say ‘guys’ at a push as that is a term that has basically been made gender neutral where I am and doesn’t infantilise them.
Rusty_Tap@reddit
Context is very important, some women I've worked with I would refer to as 'girls' in conversation with certain customers, 'ladies' with other customers, and "dickhead over there" to a very select group who know us all.
Focusmate1@reddit
Sounds normal in most circumstances - a bit like ‘the lads in the warehouse’ sort of implies that they are on the young side but that is not usually seen as a negative…..
deadlygaming11@reddit
It really depends on the context. In a casual setting then it makes sense as its more relaxed. It's also fine if you know the people and have a good relationship with them, but if you dont know them well then it can be a bit of a put down as you are basically refering to them as young and/or immature.
exitmeansexit@reddit
This came up recently in conversation with one of the few women I work with. We were chatting casually and a few friend referred some some "girls" from a night out or something or other.
She said she found it creepy if they were grown women.
Personally between friends we refer to girls nights /boys nights and we're all 30s/40s. Saying women's/men's in that context feels jarring to me.
In a work context though I'd be more inclined to say women, if it needed that. The older people on my team would more likely say girls.
Euphoric_Pension_845@reddit
I consider it (inclusive of both genders) to be a diminutive, i.e. something used to soften / informalise a conversation, it’s meant to be endearing and exude friendliness and warmth. For me, dissecting its meaning and taking it as an offence would be weird and a signal not to engage.
disastermoons@reddit
In a social context, I don't mind being called a girl (e.g. 'What can I get you girls?' when I'm out for food or drinks.
In a work context, being referred to as a girl absolutely boils my piss. I'm in a professional role I've worked two degrees to be qualified for, and I know the people calling me a girl wouldn't call a man my age and in my role a boy. Where I work, it ultimately often comes across as them being unable to get their head around the fact someone young(ish) and female is qualified and competent at her job. Lady/woman/young lady etc is absolutely fine by me.
JSButts@reddit
Colloquially yes, professionally it's context based. Same with referring to men as boys. The boys (friends), yes. The boys (work colleagues) not so much.
Affectionate_You_858@reddit
The correct terminology is birds
Many_Income_2212@reddit
Are you American?
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
Yes, can't help it.
draenog_@reddit
It's completely contextual, and honestly it's probably difficult for a native speaker to fully explain when it would be ok, when it wouldn't, and when it would be borderline — you don't really think about the exact unwritten rules of something like that unless something sounds a bit jarring because it's broken those unwritten rules.
As a simple rule of thumb, I think in a lot of contexts "ladies" is safer and less likely to be infantilising (e.g. "the ladies in the accounting department said..."), or just not mentioning gender at all if it's irrelevant (e.g. "the accounting department said...")
To have a stab at explaining when it's ok, I think it's less likely to be an issue when the speaker themselves is a woman (particularly a younger woman), when there's not a power imbalance between the speaker and the person/people being referred to, or when you're talking about "girls and boys" in almost a tongue in cheek manner.
So for the women thing, it's quite common for young women to call each other "girls" either as a casual equivalent to "guys", to emphasise a sense of sisterhood (e.g. "girls' night out"), or because as a younger woman it sometimes feels a bit weird to call someone the same age and level of seniority as you a "woman" or "lady". (E.g. I'd tend to say "there's a girl in the office called [X] who I get on with" rather than "a woman" unless the person I was talking about was significantly older than me)
For the power imbalance thing, I think it runs along similar rules as to when it's ok to call someone a casual pet name like "love", "duck", "pet", etc, in terms of age, seniority, gender, social class, familiarity, etc. I would probably bristle at a middle class senior male manager that I didn't know well referring to me as a 'girl' in a way that I might not if it was coming from someone less senior than me, someone working class, or someone older who I had more of a mentor/mentee relationship with.
And for the tongue-in-cheek context, I have a work trip coming up that will likely involve us glamping (oh joy). The events coordinator can talk about the "girls' tent" and the "boys' tent" even though the people involved range from mid twenties to 50+ because it's just mildly silly to speak as if we're kids on a school trip. Or equally, if you were doing a quiz and there was a roughly equal gender split you could be like "girls vs boys?".
Velo_Rapide@reddit
My wife, my daughter, my mum and my Cocker Spaniel are collectively known as the girls. Between them is a spread of 75 years.
lionmoose@reddit
Human or dog years?
Inspector_Frog@reddit
I think it’s context dependant but I wouldn’t use it personally as I can understand others may not like it. I tend to use generic terms like ‘folks’ a lot e.g ‘the folks in the accounting department’
Alice_Da_Cat@reddit
Where I work, quite a laid back office environment, this is perfectly acceptable, there is currently 7 people working in this office, 2 of us women, I am 29 the other 60, the other staff always say "go see the girls in the office" - We have laughed about it before because they'll usually say "sorry women" and we just say "listen we've been called worse in our time" 😆
I guess it is personal preference, like if my partner was to say "listen girl" I'd be mad and I'd make sure he knows it 🤣 But if he said Baby girl, I wouldn't mind - Sometimes my dad will say "good girl" or "that's my girl" when I have done something well or helped him out, it's something he would say when I was a kid and I don't bat an eye when he does it, it's normal to me. Also when out with friends we'll call it a girls night, or I'll message a friend like guuurl or hey girlll - Not an issue at all!
It truly is up to the person themselves 🙂
PinacoladaBunny@reddit
My Mum refers to me and my sister as ‘my girls’, but in a workplace? No, never, and I find it really jarring. Ive often found it to be older men who are fine with infantilising grown women with professional careers by referring to them as ‘girls’ at work. It’s like nails on a blackboard to me. Hate it.
terryturbojr@reddit
If I spoke about a female at work and called them a girl, the females in my team would 100% correct me with a 'woman'.
dbxp@reddit
Depends on the context, it can be infantilising but you can counteract that. For example "Talk to the girls in accounts" can be seen a demeaning but "I have no idea go see the girls in accounts, they're the experts", the impact of 'girls' is counteracted by calling them 'experts'. It also depends on how close you are as between friends it's a non issue.
EnbyArthropod@reddit
No, it's infantilising unless used by the people being referred to (such as a woman in a sports team talking about her team mates).
smartfellerayi@reddit
I feel like this is being phased out. I generally heard this from older men...
Khionia@reddit
Depends on the context but yes I'd say so. I refer to my staff as "the girls in my office". I dont mind being referenced as a girl.
Puzzleheaded_Turn887@reddit
41 and I say girls and happy to be called it.
bizoticallyyours83@reddit
Same here
Own-Jeweler3169@reddit
You have to be careful with wokeism more prevalent than ever it's very possible you will get slammed by HR, you're supposed to refer to them as women/men, boys and girls are apparently no longer acceptable.
Saying that, a lot of people don't care, but it isn't them you have to watch out for, so it's best to be safe than sorry.
ffsnametaken@reddit
"Wokeism"? Have you been watching GB news?
Own-Jeweler3169@reddit
Not at all, I dislike either extreme of the poltical spectrum, people are WAY too sensitive nowdays, coming from a relatively young adult.
There is a very small minority of people that ruin it for everyone, under no circumstances should someone be offended by being called a lady instead of a woman?? Like how men are often referred to as boys.
Don't care if I get downvoted, it is the unfortunate truth.
DismalAd2452@reddit
You're literally on Reddit making things up to be offended about...
Decent-Platform-2173@reddit
I don’t see a problem really.
torashies@reddit
I hate it in a work context. It feels very infantilising.
TehDragonGuy@reddit
Completely normal. Rather than thinking of it as the opposite of "boys" (which I think would be uncommon for adult men, not that anyone would care or find it offensive), think of it as the opposite to "guys".
glasgowgeg@reddit
"Guys" is not a term typically used for children though. "Girls" and "Boys" are.
It's the equivalent of "boys", not "guys".
Shot_Net3794@reddit
It's completely normal
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
Would people refer to the female CEO of a company as a girl? Or a female heart surgeon?
KernowKermit@reddit
it's also sometimes not normal. or "acceptable". it's highly contextual like a lot of language.
BaBaFiCo@reddit
I'd think someone bringing up gender would be a bit strange unless there was a reason. Saying "Did you know the CEO of Company is a woman?" is fine. But you wouldn't just talk about her being a woman for no reason.
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
So saying "the girl in charge of the company" is not or never OK?
bluejeansseltzer@reddit
Would she be girlbossing or womanbossing?
SpudFire@reddit
I feel like singular girl/boy is far less commonly used and does sound like you're referring to a child. Whereas the plural is acceptable for a group of men/women.
But then 'the girl in accounts' doesn't sound so bad, but only if they're visibly under 25.
As others have said, context matters massively and there's a very grey middle area where you can't apply hard and fast rules. If you're unsure it is always best to use lady.
KEW95@reddit
Would you say “the boy in charge of the company”? Probably not because a boy is a child, with few exceptions. Same for girl. It has a long history of being used to infantilise women, especially in the workplace and when they’re speaking up about their thoughts/experiences. It’s pervasive and has that same effect most of the time now, even when people aren’t consciously trying to demean women.
fickle_tartan@reddit
Would you say "the boy in charge of the company" if the CEO was a man? I suspect the answer would be no, and that should impact your ideas on whether it's okay when talking about a woman.
BaBaFiCo@reddit
In that scenario you'd say woman. Girl is a bit condescending.
OsitaHunter5168@reddit
I wouldn’t say never but probably not - it does come off condescending without more context.
LlyannGreyLyn@reddit
In some situations yes, they would probably be referred to as girls. It is generally not used in more formal situations, or if there is a significant power difference dynamic ( especially if there is a power difference difference and a lack of familiarity between individuals) Boys is often used in the same ways to refer to men
Lynvor@reddit
It would be less likely to hear her referred to that way in a proffesional context but if that same female CEO or heart surgeon had the weekend off and was meeting up with her friends on the Friday, then she may herself say she 'is having a night out with the girls', their partners may do the same. Context matters.
OsitaHunter5168@reddit
There’s quite a bit in the context. Casually I’d refer to other women as girls but less so in a professional setting or one that expected a certain level of respect.
Fishfood-7@reddit
Some would be fine with it. I wouldn't, unless the same person talks about "the boys in retail" (or whatever) in the same context.
If the women are girls and the men are boys then it's OK. If the women are girls and the men are men then it's not OK.
PetersMapProject@reddit
If you wouldn't refer to "the boys" in the same context then don't refer to women as "the girls". In a professional environment, it's unlikely that "girls" is appropriate.
I find it is often infantilising.
heres_layla@reddit
Depends hugely on context and who is saying it.
I hate when men refer to me or me and my friends as girls. It’s condescending and infantilising. I’m a 43 yo WOMAN. I’m not a child. I would accept it in a professional setting either.
If my female friend calls a group of us as “the girls” that’s different as there’s no societal power imbalance at play.
Afurryorsomething@reddit
My manager at work calls the 4 male owners of the business 'the boys' and they refer to the receptionists as 'the girls downstairs' and everyone's fine with it, it's pretty fine.
ItAintNoUse@reddit
As people have said, context matters. Age is often a factor too, you'll often find older people referring to younger women as "girls" because to them, they are. My mum is 60 and regularly refers to women younger than herself, even those who are objectively middle aged, married, have children etc. using this term e.g. "that girl who lives at number 5".
I'm turning 24 in a couple of months and, in some contexts, I like being referred to as a girl as it makes me feel like I'm still young! 😅 however, if it's used in a clearly patronising way or in a professional/academic context where it undermines my position, intelligence etc. I do resent it. The tone used is also important.
softbrownsugar@reddit
Yeah it's fine but context matters. It's not usually fine to refer to men and girls in the same context when you really mean men and women, if that makes sense
Short-Shopping3197@reddit
Girls and boys are terms used for children, whether this is experienced in a tongue in cheek or derogatory way depends entirely on your relationship to them.
If a male manager referred to his female staff as ‘the girls in the accounting department’ then it would almost certainly be thought of as derogatory.
AirlineSevere7456@reddit
It's normal to refer to adults as boys and girls.
herwiththepurplehair@reddit
It's pretty much fine. I've got three granddaughters collectively referred to as "the girls" especially by my husband because he can never remember which one is which (the curly haired one, the arty one and Grace who he does remember because she was born first and he's had longer to fix her name in haha), I also refer to my friends as "the girls" as in "going for lunch with the girls". My mother and her two sisters were known to their dying days in the village as "The (Surname) Girls".
box_frenzy@reddit
Depends on the context.
Many women would be happy to refer to a “girls night out” in a social context.
In a professional setting I would avoid it as it could easily come across as infantilising and therefore patronising/dismissive.
SuperbPhase6944@reddit
In a professional setting, treat it like the N-bomb. It's their word, and they'll decide when it's appropriate to use.
Deep_Banana_6521@reddit
Gyalldem is the preferred term.
BadgerDeluxe-@reddit
Girls are children, women are adults. However girlfriends can be either depending on age. Generally calling a woman a girl could be:
I personally think it's usually unprofessional to refer to women as girls, or men as boys at work. The only time I ever did that was when I organised an ice-breaker at a team event which was themed around a childrens TV show and welcomed everyone with "Hello boys and girls" - I put that in the ironic joke category... but these days I wouldn't even do that; back then I had no clue about non-binary gender.
UltimaJay5@reddit
I thought it was a social setting "gells" scenario before I clicked.
LichenTheMood@reddit
So. It depends a lot on the context. It's questionable in a work enviroment context.
Personally? I'm a woman not a girl and the older I get the more strongly I feel this.
CharmingSwing1366@reddit
context. can be used in a friendly way ‘going out with the girls from work’ or in an insulting conceding wah
OneSufficientFace@reddit
Welcoming little old ladies to a cafe or restaurant. Absolutely call them girls or ladies, theyll melt for you.
Prim and proper business women coming in for a meeting, do not call them girls under any circumstances.
Context is everything
dobber72@reddit
I'm finding that if I keep quiet and only answer direct questions with a yes or no, I have a nice easy day.
Chance-Bread-315@reddit
As a woman, in a any professional context I'd find it completely inappropriate and potentially offensive.
In my personal life it doesn't bother me at all to refer to a group of grown women friends 'the girls'. I'd also probably use girl if I was telling someone about another woman they didn't know up to mid-30s ish - e.g 'there's this girl who goes to my gym...'
Party-Exchange1145@reddit
Just say "the accounting department" in this context. I don't think it's relevant what sex they are, and it can feel patronising to be referred to in this way - especially in a work environment
Character_Major_5634@reddit
I am also from oversea and confused about girls and woman. I thought the word "girl" are someone around 20s but chatgpt told me girls refer to around 12 year-old. Seems I made some mistakes in the past unintentionally.
Brilliant_Growth_196@reddit
I wouldn't rely on chatgpt for accurate information, especially on cultural language uses. If a man at work called me a girl I would find it patronising as I am a grown adult woman. If one of my friends called me a girl then that is different as we are all girls together. I am in my 20s.
Character_Major_5634@reddit
Good to know. I asked chatgpt and it keeps give dull and safe answers, emphasising it is inappropriate to call a young woman a girl. In Asia, people like to be referred younger as that indicates they looks younger than they actually are, (so their beauty products probably works well worth for the money and time they spent, I guess) It's cultural thing. Thanks for clarifying.
Goldf_sh4@reddit
It's diminutive. The implication is that they are lesser, naive, inexperienced or junior compared to male colleagues. So no, it's not an ideal way for people to refer to women in workplaces.
rohithimself@reddit
For the context you mentioned, I would most likely have said, the lady who works in the accounting department. Both girl and woman sound wrong.
I might be wrong myself though.
Fun-Injury9266@reddit (OP)
I struggle with that one.
Verdigri5@reddit
The last three jobs I've had the warehouse refer to the women in the office as the girls, and the women in the office all called the men in the warehouse the boys.
nottodayffs@reddit
Depends on the context….. I would never refer to 43 year old Linda from account has a “girl who works at accounting” but as the “lady who works in accounting” however when I go out with my 35-40 year old friends I still say I’m “going out with the girls” but for the majority I would call a group of adult women “ladies” or their name
fastestman4704@reddit
As long as you're using boys or lads for the men as well you're fine
Overseerer-Vault-101@reddit
Girls and boys for fun. ladies, women, men for anything else. But context matters.
72dk72@reddit
Why wouldn't it be? I have never heard people say I am going out with the women tonight.. They say I am going out with the girls tonight! Or at work they say what are you girls doing this weekend.
Sgt_major_dodgy@reddit
It's a difficult one as it's so context specific but then even in the same context it can be different for men and women.
For example "the girls in the finance department" could be bad but at the same time "the boys/lads in the warehouse" is perfectly fine.
DCIGrannyGrumps@reddit
I'm up North and generally it's lads/lasses i.e the lasses in the shop or the lads in the pub
MeanWafer904@reddit
I have been lectured on this very thing online by certain people.
Around here, especially with the older ones it'll it boy/girl. Depending on who is talking and the age of who they are talking about there might be an old or young put in front of it.
My 80yo nextdoor neighbour might say to us about the young girl that moved in nextdoor to her. That young girl might be in her 40's or even 50's.
It can be very contextual.
SigourneyReap3r@reddit
Okay is subject to context.
Most women I know prefer to be referred to as women, but it is so normalised to be referred to as girls that it just isn't worth the fight.
Some people like it, some don't mind it and some don't like it at all.
Personally I steer clear of referring to women as girls unless they refer to themselves that way, ie if the women in accounting referred to themselves as 'girls in accounting', out of respect.
I generally find, from experience, that older women prefer to be referred to as 'girls' which is a whole issue in itself but that's getting a bit deep haha!
So, out of respect, I refer to women as women unless otherwise told.
timeforknowledge@reddit
Depends but normally you shouldn't. I've noticed recently it happens way too often.
The girl that served me in the shop
Unless they are under 18 we really shouldn't be referring to women as girls I think it belittles them I mean you can even go so far as you say it is degrading. They are not a serious adult, they are just a girl
Desperate_Dinner_307@reddit
I think it highly depends on, A) the woman and how she feels, but also B ) the context in which it's used. If I was referred to as a boy, I would look at whether it was being used in a patronising way to suggest immaturity. If it was a casual reference in a sentence about something else, fine. If it was like, "you're such a boy" to describe my behaviours or emotions, not so fine.
RandomUser5453@reddit
This sounds pretty normal to me.
“Ladies” is also normal but “women” will sound weird.
Taramafor@reddit
Trust no one that pretends they are an "adult" as if that's an excuse.
And why do you need other peoples permissin to decide what's right to do for yourself or not?
You lose the argument the moment you seek validation from others to make it about blind agreements.
The_Deadly_Pants@reddit
It's very context dependent I'd say, I'd absolutely stick to saying 'women' in a professional environment. But amongst friends 'girls' can be acceptable and may even be preferred at times, it is often seen as affectionate/playful rather than infantilising.
But know your audience, because some people may still find it demeaning. Stick to women professionally and amongst new people, but girls is fine with friends and if you'd be happy using boys to refer to male friends.
rollo_read@reddit
Sod knows, the rules seem to change these days depending which direction the wind blows.
sushiewushie@reddit
Yeah, between me and my friends that’s what we say, or sometimes it’ll be ‘ladies’.
Professional-Test239@reddit
It very common but it's a bit silly and we shouldn't do it.
psj3809@reddit
Well as you said is it okay to refer to women as girls ? Well if they're women they're women. To me girls are much younger. I doubt you would call them boys rather then men would you ? Men are grown ups probably 16+ and boys are younger
I wouldnt call anyone at work girls or boys. As someone else said i may mention that my wifes on a girls night out or i'm on a boys night out
But at work i wouldnt say girl if shes 45 and had 3 kids kinda thing ! Shes a woman
Ok-Constant-2683@reddit
Using boys to refer to adult males is perfectly normal in the UK and often a sign of friendship
TheMarvelMunchkin@reddit
Depends on context
If I’m included - I’m going out with the girls, or it’s girls night it’s ok
However I know if I say to my teen daughter “im going out with the girls” talking about my friends she will judge me and will laugh at my face
If I’m talking about a younger colleague with a female friend “a girl I work with has a beautiful dog” - that’s fine
If I tell that to any teen member of my family- eyebrows will be raised, so “a lady I work with…” or “someone I work with…”
If it’s in a work environment “x from accounts has a beautiful dog” - or in your example “I spoke with accounts and they told me…”
Jip_Jaap_Stam@reddit
The preferred term now is "birds"
WhatevahMingah@reddit
There’s no one answer, so you will have to assess the context like most others have said here.
Superb_Copy1644@reddit
I try my hardest not to, but in context of when you’re out with 8 close male friends when yours wives are all off somewhere together, you easily say “where are the girls then gents?” But I have women that report into me at work, and occasionally I’ll tell a colleague about “a girl on my team” and immediately correct myself. Intention is good, execution isn’t perfect. Chances are they wouldn’t mind, but just best to give the respect that they’re entitled to.
piximeat@reddit
As people said, context. I was getting off a bus once and excused myself to get past a couple of older ladies, probably in their 70s, by saying excuse me girls. They giggled like school children and we're very pleased with the compliment.
ProfessorYaffle1@reddit
It depends. Im your example, if the manager was also referring to 'the boys in the accounts department' then it would probably be fine, but it does come over as quite patronising and infantilising.
'Women' or 'People' work better in most contexts.
It's a bit different in a social context where women are using it of themselves - for example, people do talk about a 'girls night out ' and 'boys night out' and I thinkthat's a lot less problematic both because its self-describing and becasue it is used equally with a similar term about men.
(And on a personal level, my experience is that men who refer to women they work with in this way are often sexisit in other ways., so for me it's definitely an organge flag . I'm not going to assume someone is a sexist soleley on that basis, but it's definitely a marker for a lot of men who are.
AvatarIII@reddit
I would say "women" is overly formal in most settings, "ladies" is preferred, and "girls" exclusively for friends.
an_oddinary_girl@reddit
If you were to say "boys" in the same context. Otherwise, no.
BG3restart@reddit
I worked in an male dominated industry where it was common to refer to the women on reception as girls, even though some were in their late 50s. Similarly, the guys in the workshop were often referred to as the boys, again with a few of them being in their 50s. Neither term was used in a derogatory way IMO, but more as a term of familiarity.
Sad_Bastardo@reddit
As a grown ass woman i’m not a fan of that. But I wouldn’t kick up a fuss. My preference would be if they just used ‘ladies’ works in both the professional and casual environments.
Garlax1@reddit
What ever you say, someone will complain
jack_watson97@reddit
My wife would say she's "going out with the girls" and I'd say I'm "playing golf with the boys".
Kaskills@reddit
Maybe I overthink it, but my boss refers to my colleagues in the office as the girls, as they're all women, but I avoid saying it lol.
ENNLRon@reddit
For me it's all about context. I tend to call groups of males "gents" and groups of females "ladies" whether they are 2 years old or 90 years does not bother me. It's my thing. It's what I always say.
If someone else called groups of men "boys" and groups of females "girls" that can be their thing. There no harm meant or caused.
People who automatically assume the worst about small things like this have other issues that they should resolve before trying to fix other people's behaviour.
biggusdicdus@reddit
Just say the birds I work with, much better!!
jonviper123@reddit
Or split arses. Got that one from my uncle bernard
Sister_Serifina@reddit
Personally I dislike the term Lady unless I'm roleplaying as one, I much prefer and refer to myself as either woman or girl depending on setting; I feel 'girl' is used more in a casual/fun setting whereas 'woman' is more formal.
Confused? I'm 60 and still get it wrong at times.
WorcsBloke@reddit
I think it's one of those things where, if you don't already know it's okay, don't risk it. As a man I'd only use it if I knew the people well enough to be sure they were fine with it.
Littlelindsey@reddit
It depends if it’s done in a demeaning or dismissive way or not.
fpuk69@reddit
You can refer to them however you want but when you speak to them in person be sure to call them “babes” at the end of every sentence
Boboshady@reddit
Context is important, like most things.
Girl Power?! Good. "You go, girl!"? OK (especially between women). 'Girls nights out' is completely normal.
"Girls from accounting"? There's a history of misogyny, belittlement, even objectification.
The key difference, usually, is if the usage is social versus professional, and if it might imply a different status to that of the speaker.
So, no hard and fast rule other than "if you're not sure, avoid it" - tone, situation, familiarity and intent are important here and are easy to get wrong.
imtravelingalone@reddit
Depends on the workplace and context, but usually it's fine as long as its not in a dismissive/condescending way. Also it has to be done when you referring to multiple women, ie "the girls from the accounting department are an excellent asset to this company" rather than "the girl on the desk over there." If it's a single person, have some respect and refer to them by name. If you don't know their name, find out.
heheredbull@reddit
I’m late 20’s and I like being referred to as a girl rather than woman. Let me hold on to my youth damn it.
Fwoggie2@reddit
It depends.
I call my wife and 5yo my girls. That’s ok.
I don’t call my female friends girls but that’s because I’m male. I call them ladies.
If my female friends are going on a female only night it’s socially acceptable to call it a girls night out.
I would never use it in a professional context to describe women in a department.
berrycrunch92@reddit
I said girl about someone in a meeting the other day and immediately regretted it, stick with woman at work for sure.
Old_Bat282@reddit
It's common but not ok, in my opinion. I always hated it when I was at work and got called a girl. Mate, I'm in my 40s, girlhood was a loooooong time ago.
There are some contexts where it would be OK, if you're doing something childish, or hanging out with friends and doing the same things you did as a teenager. Calling someone a girl when they're doing fully adult things is wrong. (And creepy in the context of dating.)
CatastropheFlavoured@reddit
Is it common? Yes. But I personally really dislike it, and I know a lot of women that do too. There have been many instances where I've had to fight to be taken seriously in the workplace so being referred to a a girl is annoying.
WelshBen@reddit
I'm no expert but the trend in America seems to be saying 'hoes' or 'bitches'. It's very popular.
Phantom_Crush@reddit
'Females' too. I see that a lot online
Character_Major_5634@reddit
I am also from oversea and confused about girls and woman. I thought the word "girl" are someone around 20s but chatgpt told me girls refer to around 12 year-old. Hope British people can forgive those non-native speakers as the word means differently in other countries and normally without offences.
AbjectGovernment1247@reddit
No.
I'm a 47 year old woman, not a girl, not a child. A woman.
El_Bastardo_Grande@reddit
Have you ever had a womanfriend?
KEW95@reddit
Are you one? Casual conversation when you’re a woman (eg. “going out with the girls from work”) is generally okay. Using the term in a work setting, or using it at all if you’re not a woman, is usually not appreciated and feels derogatory/patronising, even if it isn’t intended that way.
It’s best to avoid it unless you know the women you’re referring to are genuinely happy with it being used and in what context.
Super_Shallot2351@reddit
Can come across as condescending, so context is usually the determining factor.
GiantsCauseway7@reddit
I personally wouldn't risk it in a work environment, it's best to stick to something more appropriate like birthing people
Tancred1099@reddit
These days, who knows?
OllyDee@reddit
This was a default word for me to use as a man, but I’ve noticed a bit of a cultural shift away from the word over the last decade or so. I’d say it’s probably on its way out, dependant on context.
Maximum-Armadillo809@reddit
Depends on the context. Generally we arent precious about it. Until it's condescending or derogatory and then theres a problem.
There will be indivuals as per their right that wont like it either way.
He_ofshadowsandtouch@reddit
Loads of women refer to ‘we’re on a girls night out / trip’, so I as a man find myself casually using the word, girls .
Emergency_Bread_5462@reddit
If I’m going out with my female friends, I’m going out with the girls. If OH is going out with male friends he’s going out with the boys (in our 40s and 50s btw)
OH can refer to my friends as ‘the girls’ and vice versa.
Not appropriate in a work environment though. If you’re addressing a group of same sex It’d be Ladies and gents or chaps.
macjihad@reddit
I used to just use 'folk'. Not sure if it's more a Scottish thing but if in doubt use team. Alternatively dont' bother you're arse and carry on as you were. If anyone complains then tell them to go folk themselves!
Uhurahoop@reddit
It IS a bit infantilising tbh, even if it is commonly used without ill-intent.
Ricky_Martins_Vagina@reddit
Outside of a professional setting, I'd say it's mostly ok.
Referring to female co-workers / colleagues / etc as 'girls' is inappropriate. Telling the Mrs to go and have a girls' night out with her friends, totally fine.
Sacred-Waltz1782@reddit
I'm a woman and I'll refer to a group of us as guys. I can also interchangeably use girls. Both are acceptable in my experience, both saying guys/girls and being included in either. However, context is important so for example, if I were speaking to a group of older ladies, I would use exactly that, ladies.
DatGuy82772@reddit
I'd say it's fine.
Asleep-Software-4160@reddit
Depends on context. In the example you've given 'women' would be better because 'girls' has age indications that 'guys' doesn't (so you could say 'the guys in accounts'). 'Girls' and 'guys' aren't exact opposites.
'Girls' can be infantilising (I'm just a girl), where 'guys' generally isn't, so it is also an indicator of competence.
But in a casual environment it's different: a night out with the girls, in which you are positioning yourself as one of the girls. If I was going out with my friends I might says 'out with the lads/boys', I wouldn't say I was 'going out with the men'.
Wise-Independence487@reddit
It sounds patronising to me. I would pull someone up who called me a girl. The same way I wouldn’t refer to men as boys unless I was being derogatory
navagon@reddit
It's completely normal. Some might want to avoid it in a professional setting, but generally it's not something I've seen treated as an issue.
MrMonkeyman79@reddit
Occasionally someone gets their back up over it but for the most part no one cares. You'll also hear people refer to men as boys.
cheandbis@reddit
It's not an easy one. Just look at these replies. You have people saying "don't call me a girl, call me a lady" and then others saying the complete opposite.
I'd try and avoid any mention of gender if you can. Just use "The team in accounts", as an example.
NoExperience13@reddit
In a work environment I try to avoid mentioning gender. Instead I say "people" or "team".
This is just to ensure I don't offend any retards and get in trouble.
VerbingNoun413@reddit
!dick
Prior_Elephant_5187@reddit
Bit of a minefield. I said I was going out with my work ho’s - but didn’t fare any better to be honest.
Prior-Fall-7753@reddit
Ladies is usually more acceptable
Desperate-Coat-8791@reddit
it does happen but its really annoying in a work context and quite out dated and demeaning. In a personal context "night out with the girls" is perfectly fine
Smooth-Tomatillo6390@reddit
I think it's situational, and a bit generational. The younger women in my workplace don't tend to use it. However my boomer mam's work group chat is called "the girls", she refers to the group of women she works with as "the girls", however I think she'd be a bit affronted if her boss called her individually a girl, as in "oh give your documents to the admin girl over there".
Far-Moment2643@reddit
I’d avoid it unless you’re one of the girls in question yourself!
OneCheesecake1516@reddit
My mother when she was in her 60’s and went out with her friends used to talk about going out with the girls.
lostless-soul@reddit
In general, I don't think that's a good idea, especially if the manager is male. Women might talk about "going out with the girls", meaning their adult female friends, but in a professional setting where you don't have that level of familiarity, I'd avoid it.
AuramiteEX@reddit
Normal if you are a friend/familiar with the women.
moreidlethanwild@reddit
It’s normal, however, it’s incorrect. Use the term ladies over girls.
As a woman, and an older one, being referred to as a girl is not appropriate. As another poster commented, when you get into senior positions it’s almost a mockery.
Talking about drinks with the boys or girls is fine but referring to groups of people in the workplace should be men or women or “staff”, because increasingly teams are not one gender.
ImScaredSoIMadeThis@reddit
Pretty normal, especially if the women working there are young. Though anyone feminist leaning may call it out.
Bloatville@reddit
It's normal, but it's not ok.
Ok_Aioli3897@reddit
It's completely normal.
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