On this day, 20th May 2012: The Serbian Progressive Party (SNS) won the presidential elections in Serbia, which marked the beginning of autocracy. Serbs! What are your thoughts 14 years later?

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Educational-Goal3785@reddit

Holy cope and bunch of contradiction in the comments.

The Progressive Party is just continuing what the Democratic Party has been doing. Statistically, the best governments per se, were under 1. Đinđić 2. Nikolić/Dačić, looking at corruption, reforms, shit like that. Both Vučić and Tadić are dogshit, both have a few pros and many, many cons.

Btw, its crazy that people on Reddit do not like private market, but their favorite politician is Đinđić. At the end of the day most of them are bots.

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

If you need to choose one of them would you choose Tadic or Vucic? I know, awful question but I think we know who is little bit worse than Tadic

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ValueSignificant3254@reddit

It’s like asking someone which of these two shits smells worse…

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

why not? is there someone who can lead country better than Vučić?

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MethWhizz@reddit

Ćaci located. Wrong social media buddy, here we actually use brain, that's why there is the least of you braindead bots around here.

Hope the sandwhich u got for this was tasty 🥪🥪🥪

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

yeah well you forgot salami from Paris, best sandwiches ever made, even president likes them

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shonemat@reddit

He is not president, he is Usurper

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MethWhizz@reddit

Ma mi smo debili brate, svađamo se sa sns botom, nalog od pre 23 dana, o čemu da pričamo sa dijabolom i plaćenikom režima.

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shonemat@reddit

Neka ga, nek troše vreme. Sta mi tesko da zezam ćacija

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

have you seen new DJV t shirt with word "CIAZZI"?

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shonemat@reddit

That living being really tries his best... and it is still pathetic

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

have you seen Informer visit to China, everyone knows mr president. He has many fans there. And we'll get a robot factory as well.

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

"That living being"

he's our great journalist who fought and won against color revolution himself only with his TV station.

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

mwah

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

he won elections in the first round, also this is free land unlike r/serbia where moderators are some sort of spies.

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shonemat@reddit

You mean he stole election in first round

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

he won with 60%, 20% more than needed, well i guess you wanter Ponoš to win, so he could improve tank iron melting industry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Serbian_general_election

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shonemat@reddit

Nope, just wanted to see Vucic behind bars for the gross coruption that led to death of 16 people in Novi Sad

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

well i want less corruption too.

but vucic is great at foreign politics, and this guys in opposition look stupid in that field, they wanna break our great relations with UAE, Israel, China etc. like you can see on r/serbia

so we don't have any better

well if you choose him for foreign minister, i could vote for you

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MethWhizz@reddit

Excelent at foreign politics 🤡🤡🤡 Supports Russia, sends amunition to Ukraine. When the whole world is turning their backs to Israel, he is building them arms factory on our land. Ohrid agreement, that gave Albanians literally everything except de facto independence. Gave the Chinese billions to build shit quality objects on our lands. One of those fell and killed 16 of our people if you didnt know. Chinese are digging up parts of our country to take our own materials, and then sell it to us. Its fine tho, it's for a reduced price. If you think being good at foreign policy is to suck everyone's dick and sell/sign everything they want from us, your political knowledge is very much limited. Tho, that comes without saying, anyone who can in their right mind say anything good about pussylips is either paid or dumb as dirt. You are probably both.

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Fred_Neecheh@reddit

Yes me. Also the cleaning lady in my building, and probably 6700000 others.

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defketron@reddit

Not really, part of what made his rule so total so far is that competition is attrocious.

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Fred_Neecheh@reddit

Lolno

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defketron@reddit

Lolyes

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

wel radulovic was good guy, but those around him like that crazy YT girl...

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Fred_Neecheh@reddit

Bot harder m8

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

i would not let you look after sheep

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Fred_Neecheh@reddit

Thats ok, I would not look after you anyway

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

least aggressive shtrockader

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Catman_192@reddit

Look, I found ćaci in this sub. Sorry, but no one is buying your sht here as you can see.

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

ciazzi as our famous journalist would write

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

gif

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Incvbvs666@reddit

Meh, so much whining here.

Meanwhile shopping malls and cafes are full and like the fifth sushi restaurant opened near by. The dominant debate this summer is to go to Greece, or perhaps somewhere more exotic like Thailand or the Maldives. A bunch of highways are being finished and a bunch more still to come. If you want employment 'Help Wanted' signs are everywhere. Sure it's not glamorous or highly paid stuff, but at least it's work. And don't get me started on the abundance of cars and the difficulty finding a parking spot.

Serbia in the 90s and the 00s was a country where people were BARELY SURVIVING! Literally. We were dirt poor, scraping every dinar, repairing clothes, making jams and pickling veggies for the winter because it was cheaper than buying it at the store. Hand me downs were the norm. You were lucky if you saw the sea in the summer, even in Montenegro. If you had a car it was one car for the entire family and chances are it was a Yugo rustbucket. And don't get me started on the sanctions and hyperinflation of the early 90s, that is a special kind of living nightmare.

Honestly, in the last 10 years Serbia finally became a normal country. Ideal? No far from it, but a normal country. Trouble is that most people after decades of communism and the wars of the 90s have no idea what 'normal' looks like, so they imagined something between Eldorado and Neverneverland. 'Oh, no, politicians are corrupt' 'Oh, no, they're building themselves into projects...' Sheesh, what did you expect? To become Switzerland overnight? Even Switzerland is not the Switzerland we imagine it to be. At least now, things actually get built!

And of course, the most upsetting thing about it to the left is that it was the rightwingers who got us there, essentially following DS policies and continuing where they left off. Now all of a sudden, becoming part of the EU is no longer the imperative it once was, or following western dictates for that matter, and this hurts them more than anything else! So of course Serbia is a 'dictatorship', 'tyranny' and whatnot.

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True-Blacksmith4235@reddit

Fourteen years of our lives.. damn

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

I was shocked really, what's with time passing lately

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Loud-Reaction2460@reddit

Me too, especially when I heard students talking about living the majority of their life under this regime.

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

Yeah that's wild. I was like 8 yo when they came to power so as student now but kid than I don't remember anybody in power beside vucic and sns

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

when you're having fun

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amazingamy19@reddit

We are having a blast.

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StPauliPirate@reddit

Only 14 years? Pff amateurs

gif

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Pobelka_Potolkov@reddit

Yeah, that's just the beginning, best regards from Russia, guys...

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AccordingProblem1661@reddit

Ok I don’t know much about Vucic’s governance and I keep hearing extremists views that support him and extremist views that hate him. Someone please give me a short centrist recap on why he is so popular/unpopular?

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purpl3ass@reddit

Can’t give a centrist recap for a guy whose only agenda is staying in power.
There are literally no goals except staying in power.
No ideology no vision for Serbia or its people.

There is nothing to objectively comment on
So if you like him for whichever reason you have to like him personally
And if you dislike him you have to dislike him personally.

People call him a nationalist or another Sloba, Sloba was a piece of shit but he had an ideology to criticize

If AV thought that being pro Kosovo separation would bring him more points with the public, he would be shouting it from the rooftops

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AccordingProblem1661@reddit

Interesting perspective. I hear about a lot of infrastructure projects that he is doing in Serbia. Airport, Belgrade Waterfront, Freeways, Rail etc.

Are these things actually improving the quality of life in Serbia or do you perceive them as publicity stunts?

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

“Progressive” …..shift towards Autocracy🤣🤣🤣

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AiWoTaskede@reddit

A progressive shift to autocracy

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Yeah but it kinda took time since 2012

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

well i think it's opposite, he was naive in the beginning, now he is veteran and knows all the tricks

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Yeah “tricks” on how to stay in power against peoples will🤣🤣

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

when it comes from you, it means he is doing well

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Not really Rama and Vucic are buddies ,the best Governmental relation we ever had is because of them but they both corrupted autocrat leaders that is why they love each other.

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pitogyros@reddit

Genuinely curious how is Rama autocratic?
And what’s the state of Democratic Party ( opposition ? )

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Rama is corrupted ,owns the media ,gets backed from the Oligarchs ,uses all the state resources possible to “buy” electoral votes like giving favours to familie,resolving their disputes and literally buys with money 200-300 euro per vote.
The Democratic Party is fcked up mostly because the government was successful in discrediting them but they are also not angels .
For the Albanians in general would a power rotation will be good but Rama wont let it happened ,from 2013 to 2029( if nothing happens) he was and will be the boss

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pitogyros@reddit

So more or less it’s same as the Greek political scene that you are not voting(or hoping) for the best option but for the least bad one?

Also seeing the 2 major parties having 85% in last elections means you don’t see any time in near future for a new political power to emerge ?

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Kind of, but Greece performs better in almost every democratic aspect.
The electoral system is designed in a way that makes it difficult for new parties to succeed. For example, a new party received 5% of the vote (around 50,000 votes) but won only one representative, while the Socialist Party needs only around 10,000 votes to gain one representative. In other words, the larger the party, the fewer votes it needs per representative.

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pitogyros@reddit

5% for 1 seat is wild.
Greek threshold for parliament entry is 3% and usually it’s between 6-8 representatives.

But on the other hand Greece had until last elections an automatic 50 bonus seat on the first party which gave them quite easy majority to form government ( 150+1 ) is needed so you see how wild is the +50 seats

However that changed (kinda) in last years that the bonus isn’t automatically 50 seats but proportional.

At 25% of votes the first party gets 25 seats and at 40%+ the winning party gets 50 seats.

So in short while it was easier for minor Greek parties to enter parliament than it was in Albania , they were essentially useless because it was even easier for the government to form ultra majority.

I guess their only benefit was easier publicity but as history has shown , none went above 10% until few years ago

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

In Albania that new party with 5% got 1 seat while the Government with around 50% got 84 out of 140 seats(60% of the seats) ,it is extremely disproportionate.
They are working on it right now(it is an EU accession requirement) but Idk if they will really change smth and if they change smth they will definitely redraw boarders of the electoral zones (they did it before) in order to maximise the votes they get .
It sounds crazy but this is the fake world we live in.

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pitogyros@reddit

My best guess would be something similar to the Greek scenario , that it’s not violation of EU rules , yet unfair system or it could be a cooked election map as you said / some cooked method of calculating the scaling and benefits of winning party.

But let’s give it the benefit of the doubt

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

well i know they like going to wine festivals together

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terra_filius@reddit

just like Progressive Bulgaria that won the elections

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Fero_BG@reddit

Ся ни са е*а мамата...

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Idk about that,Vucic did good at the beginning at least Internationally.

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

SNS = Serbian Corruption Party

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CTPABA_KPABA@reddit

I hope they all die of cancer with painful and long lasting suffering.

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LazaCoolGuy@reddit

Feels like what little progress we had after the 90s is being undone. Corruption is rampant, and it has reached every single aspect of everyday life. We are witnessing our country being sold piece by piece to the highest bidder so that the criminals in charge can reap the rewards.

All in all, state in itself is ceasing to exist before our eyes, and this organization that I can characterize only as a cartel is taking its place.

Seriously depressing if you ask me, every few months I'm considering leaving, but my family and friends are the reasons why I stay

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

The only difference is that now there is not war: I mean physical war but psychological one is here and it's sometimes getting worse than 90s

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GiantDude64@reddit

Yes, but you are missing a huge detail. Serbia is now heavily overleveraged, from small private businesses to large companies and major corporations. All of this is done to maintain a stable standard of living and the appearance that everything is fine. That is why, in the hidden part of the economy, the situation is much worse than it was in the 1990s. Think about that.

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GiantDude64@reddit

As a Russian who has been living here for four years already, I can say for sure that corruption exists here. It is similar to what exists in Russia, but due to the huge differences between the two countries, Serbia still has a chance to throw off the bandit scum from power and try to move toward democracy and the rule of law at all levels. The chance is tiny, very small, but still many times greater than Russia’s.

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defketron@reddit

Actually, petty everyday corruption is lower. Higher corruption is higher. I don’t know what ‘country being sold piece by piece’ even means, most of privatisation already happened before SNS came to power.

Political culture is much worse, media situation is much worse. Debate is nonexistant so people stay in their bubbles which just reinforce extreme thinking.

Half the country thinks we wre in a golden age with a best leader ever, half thinks that we are Mordor on a brink of collapse, both sides are equally distant from reality.

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l11r@reddit

I am not a Serb but I live in Serbia for around two years, and damn, I am kinda shocked when read all this stuff... Corruption, consolidation of media, etc. Sure! But right now you are far behind the horrors that might come. I live here feeling myself as free as the wind and reading news from my home country literally feels like Mordor. Thats why right now Serbs have the best moment to fight autocratization, but I would lower the tone, because then it's became worse you just won't have enough words...

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Good-Hand-8140@reddit

You on a reddit bot sub dude. Stop speaking non-nonsense

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alkorisno@reddit

You call it progress? Our entire countries industries ware destroyed and are to this day. Poverty and ebt increased and kept increasing. SNS came to power because people ware mad about it, but they just continued doing the same.

Dismantlimg socialism was the biggest mistake serbia made in its entire history

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villke@reddit

Coruption was rampant during 2000s as well my dude. That's the reason SNS won. We just replaced Tadic the democratic demagogue with Vucic the autocratic demagogue.

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LazaCoolGuy@reddit

Agreed, corruption was there, undoubtedly. Maybe it felt more like a free country, idk. Like, there was a path towards the EU, people were hopeful for a better future.

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Firm-Rip-2133@reddit

It was far less. Vučić and his brother are almost certainly billionaires. Cvetković was an absentee PM too but he's nowhere near that rich. Not to mention they made the Ada bridge without killing anyone and roughly within deadline. I cannot imagine SNS doing something like that and have it be structurally sound almost 20 years later. Today, that project would take 5 years at least, 5 billon at least and it would be a rickety shack waiting for a gust of wind to topple it over.

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sleepKnot@reddit

Didn't those 2 fags celebrate becoming billionaires back in 2019 or something like that? It's an open secret.

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Good-Hand-8140@reddit

It's because you didn't have Instagram/reddit

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drug_K@reddit

We replaced democratic demagogue with hard core criminal.

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nistemevideli2puta@reddit

Yeah, there was corruption in 2000s, so to make sure that it is not removed, we decided to punish the "democratic demagogue" by voting for EVEN MORE corruption.

The Democrats threatened our way of life!

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villke@reddit

If someone steals money from me I don't care if he is a nice person with democratic value I want him out of office as i want SNS out of office now.

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nistemevideli2puta@reddit

That's reasonable. What is not reasonable is to vote for proven thieves and kings of corruption to punish someone unprovenly corrupt.

But hey, Americans did the same thing 20 years later, so I guess we are good.

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

well at least Vučić is not good at melting iron like Tadić is

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mihjok@reddit

To be honest, we knew it will be like that if not in 2003 than in 2012

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King_Alf@reddit

As I have got SRB roots, always keeping an eye on the story. Here in Hungary we just got rid of the same shit. Really hoping our power could give a little hope for you too.

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Shqiptar89@reddit

Wonderful

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Tasty_Needleworker86@reddit

SNS is the downfall of Serbian democracy and society

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mala_neveshta@reddit

My opionion is, we are most likely in top 10 the most stupid nations in the world!

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deterius@reddit

Serbian humour is unmatched tho

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mala_neveshta@reddit

Yeah, we like to laugh at our own misery!

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Buddha-Is-My-Bruddah@reddit

[ Removed by Reddit ]

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Svez1@reddit

The more time passes the less i kid myself that this is not a mafia run state and everyone is on it. All political parties work together, killings and cover ups, drug trafficking and producing. If anyone is a whistle blower he dies or his life ruined permanently by government paid thugs and criminals.

Student might be our last hope for any kind of chance to rise above the shitter we are in.

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hubbabubbameqershi@reddit

Why not fight for your country, who is going to make it better?

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markolo1o@reddit

A lot of people are content with their shit life because they lived in worse times in the 90s... their mentality is always "Do you live good, do you eat? Than why do you complain".
That mentality is killing us but, it's gotten slightly better recently.

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

We are calling that 'fake opposition' that's well known thing in autocracy countries

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Vukaku13@reddit

Well that sure was the dumbest thing my compatriots pulled off after the 90s wars…

Electing a moron to punish Tadić’s government. How fucking naive haha. Letting radicals rule and now they are a cancer that is destroying the entire country.

Well done.

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Degeneret69@reddit

Why do people act like they didnt see MILLION people on the streets protesting against them.

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Bortisa@reddit

😭

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ConsiderationIll2766@reddit

To hell with them.

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Busy_Pick6418@reddit

Best thing SOA ever did - install this muppet

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Simma451@reddit

Jbo nam ja mtr

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Sweet-Bed2076@reddit

Before election many spoke with hope of new gpvernment, i didn t have any idea who they were so quick google search told me who they were and i laughed when someoje would say that it is going to be better or they will arrest corrupt politicians,...

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BicycleAdditional360@reddit

Every single time a non-west-alighned party wins, the political regime becomes 'autocracy'.

I'm sick of the weaponization of the language

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RationalRose@reddit

A ti zoves ovu danasnju Srbiju kako tacno? Zoves je demokratija? Sacuvaj boze

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RealFatPenguin@reddit

I just want communism back, no elections and no politicians. I wanna puke when i see any of them or when i hear any of them. Be it SNS, SRS, DS, SDS, or whatever other S. I don't understand how can the so called "democratic" countries be so proud about their shitty elections and cunt politicians. I'm having enough of all of them just after 30 years of that "democracy".

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Skt_turbo@reddit

I’m part of the diaspora and honestly don’t really follow our politics or have a strong opinion on it.

But as an outsider who has been regularly going to Serbia for the past 17 years, I genuinely think the country has changed massively for the better. I still remember going back home for the first time as a 10-year-old and being shocked by how underdeveloped everything felt at the time. For example, my village in Vojvodina was really neglected and poorly maintained.

Today, it has been developed beautifully, and in general, from my perspective, the infrastructure has improved tremendously. About two years ago, I also started a company here that handles construction projects, and I was honestly surprised by the opportunities available here especially regarding financing and how some approval and permit processes are, in certain cases, even better than in Switzerland.

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Late-Show245@reddit

The government has pursued neoliberal economic policies, also known as Thatcherism or Reaganomics, which is why the Gini index, which measures the difference between rich and poor, has surged and is closer to the U.S. level than, for example, the Dutch level. That is why it's easier to get licenses. But it's not only that. If you have connections and if you don't object and support the government, they will welcome and support you. As soon as you start even questioning their decisions, you are anti-Serb, Ustasha, Nazi, blockader...

So they did build something and they did develop, but it's just a facade. What they built is of worse quality than what previous "yellow" governments did, and the Bridge on Ada is of much higher quality and less corrupt than anything SNS has built. They are spending millions on Belgrade Waterfront and are fine cutting trees into shapes, while even in the neighborhood of the incumbent Belgrade Mayor, they don't repair pavement nor cut trees branches which are hindering the passage of pedestrians.

And that's the story of currenr Serbia. If you are not with them, you are against them according to their philosophy. And I haven't even toughed the topics such as rule of law, democracy, culture, education, medias...

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defketron@reddit

Gini index in USA is 41-46 depending on the reporting body.
Gini index in Serbia is 32.
Gini index in Netherlands is 26.5.

On top of that, gini index in Serbia is on a decline. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=RS

Just a fact check on what you started your case with.

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Late-Show245@reddit

Well, when I last checked a couple of years ago, Serbia had 37 or 38, and to be honest, now it's 33, not 32. The Netherlands had 25, and the USA had 42. Regardless, it doesn't change anything; GINI inequality was highest in the mid-2010s during SNS rule when it was over 40. 33 is still not good, especially when you consider our communist past, while the Netherlands has been a beacon of colonial imperialism and colonialism with always relatively weak leftist parties, unlike Scandinavia.

And what about all democratic and freedom indexes in the world noticing a decline? It can't be that they are all biased, or are they? With some, the decline is minor, and with others, it is greater.

If you think it's normal to have a GINI index much higher than, for example, Slovakia, which shares a lot of history and even mentality with us, and even the ever-capitalist Netherlands, it's clear that I can't persuade you and that you will always find a way to see it through different lenses.

While different lenses are beneficial for our beloved country, it's not beneficial to pretend that the social climate or even the economy is doing great. The economy is modest, not terrible. But all of this could be much better if we actually had competent people at the decision desk.

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defketron@reddit

You said that the Gini index surged and that it’s closer to USA than Netherlands. In reality it’s the opposite and it’s on the decline. It’s a lot lower now then when SNS came to power. That’s it.

Acknowledge when you are mistaken and adjust your narrative to the facts. Don’t move the goalposts and say that ‘it doesn’t matter’. I didn’t claim that corruption and democrwcy are on the rose, so I don’t see why is that relevant.

Communist past doesn’t protect you from the pressures that redistribution of capital combined with entry into globalized economy produce on equality of incomes.

SNS actually came to power on the votes of ‘losers of the transition’, who are now dehumanized as crooked-toothed ćaci sandwitch eaters. The inequality rose in the transition that preceded them.

People on the streets today are not those people, they are mostly new middle class that feels it doesn’t have political power proportional to it’s economic power. Which is perfectly fine, as a member of that class I am on the streets with them, I’m just not hypoctritical enough to pretend that we are poor and hungry.

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Late-Show245@reddit

Right. I acknowledge my mistake, but you'll also have to acknowledge that 32.8 is rounded to 33, not 32.

It's so obvious that you were nitpicking and that you played with numbers just like the most powerful person in the country.

I acknowledge I last checked the data in 2022 from a Wikipedia page, and the data was from 2019 or so when that was the case and when Serbia's GINI wasn't yet really declining but plateauing.

If you are not ashamed to defend criminals and instead argue with me and pretend to be an opposition, it's OK.

I didn't say that economics didn't improve, but so did others, and our overall standing has regionally somewhat declined.

The protests are not about finances and money at all. It's about power which is unequally distributed. You can't have 50% support and control 99% of decisions locally and nationally.

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defketron@reddit

It’s not nitpocking when it completely changes the accuracy of what you said. 33 is still closer to Netherlands than to USA.

I do not defend anyone, I just state the truth and don’t bend it depending on whose side I support. I think that’s a prerequisite to meaningfull discussion about the country. I am not interested in adding to the reddit/twitter polytically illiterate hysteria.

Yes, protests are not about money per se, they are about balancing political power with the new economic reality, that was my point. But in order to understand that you have to sdmit that the middle class actually grew in this period, not that unequality increased.

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marrecar@reddit

None of the visible progress matter, since behind it is a bunch of corruption and crime. It's like saying Qatar has massively positively developed, while ignoring the facts of how it was developed.

Vučić and his team have killed people. And that happened not only in their criminal circles, but they have also killed civilians due to their corruption. And they don't want to take an responsibility. You should not care about any progress and development, when you can't feel safe in your own country.

Just don't be ignorant, read on what's been happening in Serbia in the last 14 years. If you can still accept that, then sorry, there's something deeply disturbing about you.

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defketron@reddit

If you start your case with ‘none of the visible progress matter’ it’s a pretty weak case right away.

Serbia is generally still a very safe country. Yes, nadstresnica happened and people should be held accountable, but it doesn’t mean that you ‘can’t feel safe in your own country’.

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Late-Show245@reddit

Well, I don't feel safe from street dogs, from hooligans, or from the mafia. Some things have improved for the better, like living standards and infrastructure, but the selfishness of the people, the mafia's connection to the state, and the level of corruption, which enabled tycoons to build everywhere they desired in Belgrade regardless of infrastructure capacity, not to mention the loss of freedoms, have gone in a very bad direction.

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defketron@reddit

Street dogs, hooligans and mafia are much less prominent then they used to be. Our crime has gone to some higher levels, the cost in corruption is higher, but it doesn’t affect the regular person. Even crime killings are professionalized and innocent bystanders basically never get hurt.

I’m old enough to remember the times when that wasn’t the case. Not trying to say that what we have now is amazing and shouldn’t change and improve, just trying to put things into perspective.

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Late-Show245@reddit

I both agree and disagree with you. People still get attacked by street dogs or owned dogs. I was almost attacked in Dorcol a couple of weeks ago and it wasn't pleasant at all. Serbia is improving, but at a similar or slower pace than the rest of the region, and that's the truth.

I've traveled around the world and I know how it feels to be safe and unsafe. I've been to the USA and Serbia, and pretty much every European country is way safer than there, but I genuinely feel safer in the Netherlands, where I spend 2/3 to 3/4 of a year, than in Serbia. No street dogs, no or very limited hooligans, mafia incidents linked to minorities and foreign governments not Dutch, while in Serbia we all know that mafia is connected to the state, and pretty much all governments in the region have links to mafias but that doesn't make us any better. But hardly anywhere in the region and not until a year or 2 ago you have criminals who are beating people on the streets because of different political opinion. Government is slowly adopting fallangalism as one of their main ideology along with neoliberalism.

And of course, because of my opinion, I am an anti-Serb and a blockader in the eyes of the government. And no, they didn't block Serbia's accession to the EU; they didn't put a tent in front of the parliament and block the boulevard; no, they didn't block anyone who is knowledgeable in the profession and disagrees with them; no, they didn't. It's all made up, and the West is trying to topple them, even though Ursula von der Leyen or Merkel would always refer to our President as "Dear" or would kiss each other on the cheeks until a year ago.

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defketron@reddit

I ak not evaluating whether attacks exist at all, I am evaluating trajectory of their frequency. And they are definitely less freequent.

I’ve traveled most of continents and majority of Europe and there’s definitely cities in Western Europe where I felt less safe than in Belgrade. 20 years ago, that wasn’t the case.

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Late-Show245@reddit

Well 20 years ago we played a football in our street in the evening/night. Now at the very same street, people gather to turn up the music, and very shady activities are happening. You can't really play football because it would be intereputed by a car every minute or 2 and it's simply not that safe anymore because of shady people/mafia gathering (yes it's relatively affluent area). A week or 2 ago, one of their cars couldn't wait for me to park so they decided to drive on pedestrian pavement next to the street.

Do you remember driving or commuting in Belgrade and how it has changed for worse in the last 10 years? The profesionals know how to resolve it, but they are not listening, they are playing Cities Skylines with live people and build roundabout anywhere they want. They've built only 2 out of 20 or so roundabouts that was recommended by the university almost 10 years ago. All other roundabouts are not recommneded for its transformation.

And if you think that parts of Paris where non-European minority resides is unsafe, you should check out US and EU numebers. And of course we can't compare to Serbian because there aren't any or even if there were we can't really fully trust them because our country is less democratic by any given metric. So yes, I feel safer in the Netherlands than in Belgrade. You never know when some idiot is going to finish your life thanks to government directly or indirectly. You don't remember that a tunnel on Milos Veliki were guarded by police and hospital for months? Is that normal? It's comical.

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defketron@reddit

Traffic is worse because there’s a lot more cars. Infrastructure is getting better but can’t keep up with that growth so far. It would keep up faster if there wasn’t a permanent 30% corruption tax built into every public work.

That tunnel story is a prime example of an opposition bubble turning a normal story into some horror. Every tunnel of that length needs to have a fast-response medical unit nearby. That’s what they introduced and the story quickly morphed into ‘police is guarding the tunnel because it will collapse’. People were actually taking the longer route avoiding that tunnel for months with no good reason.

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marrecar@reddit

If you feel safe, while not criticising the government openly, not watching the news and ignoring everything that's happening - then you're not safe. If you openly critique the government, you are more likely to get arrested or get beaten up by hooligans. A society, which cannot criticise its own government without being labelled or attacked by the government members and supporters - that's not a free and safe society.

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defketron@reddit

I’ve been part of every wave of protests since 2014. been to blockades, wrote against SNS publicly behind my own name and never had a problem. You are extrapolating some cases into a general rule.

When you take into account frequency and size of protests that happen in Serbia, it’s actually safer to protest gere than in most of the Western hemisphere.

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Humble-Bear@reddit

He is likely a caci right winger

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alkorisno@reddit

They came becuse capitalism destroyed our country and people hopped they would be different. They warent. Elections can bring prosperity back to working class in capitalism, becuse few rich people own all the private media

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ConstantChange87@reddit

Quarter of century later, Serbians are trying to overthrow another Milosevic.... I don't think they even have a replacement candidate even.

Glad we took the exit from them in 2006 🇲🇪🇲🇪🇲🇪

Best. Decision. Ever.

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miiiiiiiii123@reddit

A 16 year old in my city had been shortly arrested because he criticized Vucic on his whatsapp status.

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Few_Winter_3453@reddit

Damn bro could be worse than erdogan

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Efficient-Magician63@reddit

Lol the current Bulgarian party that recently won with overwhelming support is called Progressive Bulgaria

And for now it looks like they are also trying to go the autocracy way

Coincidence in the names?

Apparently, many countries in the world now think the next progress is towards autocracy, so mb theyr not lying by calling itself Progressive

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deaddyfreddy@reddit

Coincidence in the names?

If you see the words "People's Republic" or "Democratic People's Republic" in a country's name, it is neither a republic nor democratic, and most likely the people have no say in it.

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

Yeah, world is currently turning more autocratic. But, sometimes it's not just problem in dictators, the people who chosed them are problem. It's pretty easy to spot potential dictators sometimes

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Efficient-Magician63@reddit

Well, sometimes you don't have an actual choice because all parties are just bad...

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

Yeah you're right here. Also don't forget to mention that potential autocratic parties are most loud ones when there is question of corruption etc. Durring campgain they are activists, that's how SNS won elections

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oops_all_memes@reddit

Coincidence in the names?

Ever heard of the Democratic Republic of Korea and National Socialist Workers' Party of Germany?

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Sir0liver@reddit

Since this is Reddit, I guess 99% of replies will be "we hate it, we're trying to fight it"...

It's like asking kindergarten kids "what do you like more - broccoli or pizza"

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T0N_618@reddit

What do you expect? To say that sns is good?

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Consistent_Sir1403@reddit

Moving away from here this summer,can't take this shit no more,the last straw was the glisic mongoloid telling us not to send our kids to the state college or they'll return in a coffin

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Shqiptar89@reddit

Well, if someone had it coming it’s you. 10 years of genocide. Has to be some karma.

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kuhinjski@reddit

Damn then what will happen when all your crimes come to be paid

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Shqiptar89@reddit

What crimes are those? Unless you call freedom a crime.

Or is it the imaginary yellow house?

Anyway have fun with SNS for the next 50 years.

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zara_anwar@reddit

Feel so sad for the Serbs, ahhh if only you could be like Albania so free so democratic so developed

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True-Blacksmith4235@reddit

/s

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Stverghame@reddit

Half of my life 🥲

It sickens me

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the25thn@reddit

Koj smo mi Mordor.... We only need black tower of Mordor, instead of the Belgrad Tower..

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kuhinjski@reddit

What we have now is a private sns country that exists inside a part of serbian territory. They rule with fear as a prime factor. Soon you will have to be a member of the party and proof that you voted for them even just to breathe or drink water. If you are a small bussiness owner and dare not to vote for them they are sending you literal killer squad to beat you up. Its like the middle ages over here only with less rights.

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Good-Hand-8140@reddit

Wtf are you talking about 🤣🤣🤣

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kuhinjski@reddit

About the current state of life in serbia if i wasnt clear

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LuckyBug1982@reddit

Powered by EPP is what im saying.

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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit

Same in Albania in 2013 was the beginning of autocracy Edi Rama won elections,he again won elections last year with best results ever will be another 3 years,maby more

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Shqiptar89@reddit

Stop voting for him then.

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FlamesOfDespair@reddit

That's because the opposition is even more disliked. Rama can't actually rig the votes to a massive degree. I doubt Serbs can vote out Vucic.

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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit

Rama rig more votes than vucic,rama like vucic work with mafia and drug lords,with puublic administrator with oligarchs,rama like vucic have a big propagamnda machine in social networks,tv etc.i think they are same

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FlamesOfDespair@reddit

People not wanting to risk Berisha winning despite all of these says a lot.

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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit

New parties in albania have little popular vote and will be like this for another 10 years.despite lack of trust all opposition parties should be togather.2 billion dollars according to SPAK are missing in state budget drug loundry money in albania acording to intefnational organization and usa state departament etc

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lolzimcoolwow@reddit

With the little difference that with Rama things have changed and with Vucic it’s become a real nightmare

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Icy_Huckleberry8893@reddit

Is 13 years in power of course the country will make little progress but since the rama come to power around 1 million albanians migrate out of albania like war and still the things are change for worst no for better

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

Balkan countries really don't have luck with dictators I see

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muriqi_s@reddit

They choose poorly, they dig their own grave.

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BardhyliX@reddit

You're assuming any choice you make voting matters, they're all garbage.

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muriqi_s@reddit

The least they can do to make a bit of progress is to at least not choose the same evil one the whole time.

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defketron@reddit

Looks like Vucic is actually the only one in this picture that is still active in politics. And he was one of the rare SNS leaders that lost that election (lost for Mayor of Belgrade to Djilas).

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

Maybe if he won that Belgrade elections, Serbia will be more safe but it's hard to guess

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defketron@reddit

I don’t think that place would ever be enough for him. Hard to admit but he is the most talented politician of that generation. I think that mayoral position would’ve propelled him up even faster.

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

Yea it feels so weird that he randomly becomed PM in 2014. He def has talent in using other people for his own purpose. That's how he used Nikolić in 2012.

Overall, from random useless outsider to the biggest Serbian autocrat in 21st century

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Good-Hand-8140@reddit

I won't say outsider. He was Seselj student, and Seselj, like him or not, cemented himself in Serbian anals of history with his Hague performance.

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defketron@reddit

Not sure if I would call him a useless outsider. I mean, Seselj and Nikolic made him a 3rd man of the party when he was still in mid-20s, he was the youngest minister ever in that ‘98 government, he was the most effective party bulldog in parliament etc. etc. In the end became the youngest PM in history. He subjugated the entire party, then the media, then the country. That’s some serious skill and talent. Can’t deny any of that just because I hate his guts.

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Old_Passenger7@reddit

There were improvements in the beginning, during the first four years, but they captured all the institutions and media in the country.

Over time, they started using them to stay in power. Later, even that was not enough, so they began cooperating with criminal groups to remain in power.

Fifteen years later, the whole country is criminalized, and we in Serbia need change as much as a man in the desert needs water.

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Good-Hand-8140@reddit

Rare truthful answer here. Some guy was talking about how SNS won't let them drink water 🤣🤣🤣

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amazingamy19@reddit

Reading this made me so sad

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

The silence of national media was first sign that something is wrong

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Humble-Bear@reddit

My thoughts are, it is the will of the people. Vucic is the inevitable conclusion when you elect radicals, who at least didn't shoot themselves in the foot in the obvious ways and were willing to trade their countries resources to the west to stay in power.

It will continue, because serbia is largely a backwards country with very limited emotional, and apparently computational intelligence, to understand cause and effect.

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psuedoking1@reddit

Just 486 years more

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cleaner007@reddit

This is everything that Pablo Escobar ever wanted

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Janosh_Poha@reddit

The Serbs have a great history of this. Pašić, King Alexander, Milošević and now Vučić... That's 150 years of epic bullshit.

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Just_Problem_1645@reddit

Take back your country like how we did after 16 years of Orban regime

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nan0_engineer@reddit

This day shall be remembered as one of the darkest in Serbian history...

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alpidzonka@reddit

Things kind of turned out very different to what I thought they'd be in 2012. Namely, I thought they'd remained secret radicals and would take us into regional wars. Granted, there was Banjska, but after that failed they mostly just memory holed it. They're much worse now in that regard than say in 2013/14 but compared to the shithole western politics has gone it's kind of whatever tbh.

Also, at the time I never thought the SNS would be in power this long, I remember I was coping along the lines of "it's good for the DS to be in the opposition for a while, to regroup and clear out the crooks in their own party, then get back when people are sick of the progressives". Pretty much the opposite of what happened, the DS barely exists. I don't really care nowadays, I don't see them as a positive for more than a decade now, but still my projection was way off and at that time I did like them.

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enfant_incroyable@reddit

Maaan 14years lost after 5th October So sad when you read it…

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marrecar@reddit

1/10, do not recommend 👎👎👎

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_segamega_@reddit

why did they win? there must be something behind.

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

EU congratulated them 3-4 hours before closing the polling station

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_segamega_@reddit

so? it was 50:50 to congrat the right person. tadic vs nikolic. question is why did the win?

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mine_nm@reddit

EU project

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evilmannn@reddit

Serbs love autocracies and a "strong hand" to lead them, they love people like Putin, Saddam Hussein, Assad and Lukashenko, I've seen them even simping for Mullahs in Iran which is insane in itself, so I am guessing majority is fine with this, I'm from Serbia btw, just being objective, hate what I just said but can't go against majority. Is what it is...

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Electrical_Waterbed@reddit

Yup, you have a point, just look at Tito and Milošević. Just goes to show that the majorityof the people here are really fond of autocratic leaders. It's just baffling to me how people think that an autocratic leaders means a strong nation, most people actuality believe that Milosevic was protecting us and that if it weren't for Vucic, we'd be attacked or somethong like that.

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Unable-Stay-6478@reddit

If you go back to the 80s in Yugoslavia, you already had a population shaped by WWII trauma ~35–40 years earlier, plus a one-party system where political competition didn’t exist in the modern sense. So when the federal system started weakening, it wasn’t some “cultural preference for autocracy” appearing out of nowhere — it was a vacuum where nationalist elites could mobilize fear and insecurity very effectively.

Fast forward to the 2010s: Vučić also didn’t start as an “obvious autocrat.” In fact, early SNS period (post-2012) was built around anti-corruption messaging and EU integration rhetoric, with cases like Miroslav Mišković being used as flagship prosecutions. The system gradually centralized over time through media consolidation, party dominance, and weakening of institutional checks — it wasn’t a single moment or mandate where people “voted for autocrac

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DealerSwimming4869@reddit

you forgot to add "and fucked them up for next 100 years"

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Catman_192@reddit

14 years of hell. Well idk if they will reach 15th, I think they will fall the same year (2027).

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shigabi@reddit

Thank you, EU! I believe you are deeply concerned!

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ItsRogue14@reddit

gif

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Evana_Iv@reddit

Ustanak!

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Both-Opening-970@reddit

We are fucked.

And i remeber, back then that e-cigaret company Umbrella used the Umbrella logo from Resident evil games, and right next to that billboard was one with Tomislav Nikolic.

Their victory was announced and I was waiting for a bus and saw those billboards, that was the exact moment when I thought :”We are fucked”

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Andrija_stoj@reddit

Arrest Vučić!

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RestaurantBoring417@reddit

Beginning? Was there ever a time in history when Serbia was not an autocracy?

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14PerunsThunder1389@reddit

Ofc croat is saying this, since when kroatia had democracy lol

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oops_all_memes@reddit

Brother, with the username you have it's surprising you are not a Croat yourself, sit this one out

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14PerunsThunder1389@reddit

Idk what are you talking about

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oops_all_memes@reddit

Ah, forgive me, you are a different flavor of nazis. I always mix you up guys

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Beneficial_Ad8368@reddit

Serbia in the 2000s wasn’t autocratic. Between 2004 and 2008, our President and PM were from different political parties, just like in Croatia now. Between 2008 and 2012 it started turning more autocratic, but even that was nothing compared to what happened after 2012.

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Low-Attitude-7100@reddit (OP)

In Serbia government is not rating in terms are they autocratic or not. It's about choosing which one is how we say 'less evil' and less autocratic

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MethWhizz@reddit

They didn't win shit, democrats lost. People just voted against them, not for SNS. How mistaken we were, now the corruption is hundreds of times worse. We live in a shitshow banana republic where every single aspect of our lives is controlled by one family, evil and greedy to the bone.

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avitoxol@reddit

what else is new in the balkans

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Bojan997@reddit

Nothing good — the system has remained the same as it always was. Similar or even the same people from the previous government have stayed in power. Some roads were built and some jobs were created, but we’ll see how much all of this will end up costing the people once the final balance is drawn. I hope that some real changes will happen in our suffering country.

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