Why was the literacy rate so low in the Balkans, back in 1900?

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SwimmingAttention133@reddit

Wonder if something was happening around in the late 1800's

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icankillpenguins@reddit

Obviously Ottoman empire ruled from Portugal to Estonia and made all those regions illiterate, you can see it on the map.

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They didn’t make them illiterate. The majority of schools at this time were religious schools and the Ottomans just had Orthodox, Catholic and Islamic populations that didn’t emphasize literacy like the Protestants.

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icankillpenguins@reddit

that’s the joke

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Repulsive-Waltz7@reddit

Regular Turks had the same situation if you wanna know. Rich Turkish, Arabs, Balkans, Rums had the education regular folks didn't have

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chrstianelson@reddit

This map is more a result of the 30 Years War than anything else.

The Protestants used the printing press quite vigorously. Protestantism emphasized that Christians should read the Bible for themselves, rather than it be interpreted by a priest. Which required that common people, peasants and the like, be able to read themselves. There was also the mandatory primary schooling pioneered by the Prussians. Many printing houses opened up in this era, which in turn made printing and books cheaper, which made them more affordable and accessible.

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Archaeopteryx111@reddit

The Transylvanian Saxons tried to spread Protestantism in the Romanian population but were very frustrated that no one converted.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

The Nordics should thank Martin Luther for that.

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jotakajk@reddit

He had a dream

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

the one who had a dream had slightly more melanin 🤣🤣🤣

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Automatic-Sea-8597@reddit

In 1774 Empress Maria Theresia instituted universal schooling of kids from 6 to 12 years in the Austrian empire. It was resented by farmers who rather wanted to use their kids as farm workers.

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DrinkInevitable3457@reddit

My grandma (b. 1948) would tell me that she wanted to continue learning, but her father forbade her to continue after 8 years of schooling because "It would be shameful to send a daughter away from home; what would the neighborhood think?"

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BoxBlueD@reddit

Still largely agricultural region. Literacy became necessary in other countries to supply workers for roles that were brought into being by the Industrial Revolution. The Industrial Revolution didn’t hit the Balkans until much later than other places. Due to a lack of natural resources (fossil fuels and metals that were sought at the time).

The main natural resources of the region were wood, stone, and good conditions for agriculture.

Don’t need to read an instruction manual to smash rocks, raise cattle, or grow vegetables.

Do need to be able to read to understand meters, gauges, warning signs, labels, written commands etc. in a factory.

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AirSniffer@reddit

Because ppl didnt know how to read.

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neseseshtam@reddit

Because the map I'd bulshit. Like who made it the Anglo saxon Hitler institute?

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FlakyAssociation4986@reddit

In 1930 yugoslavia about 90% of Slovenians were literate but only about 10% of ethnic Albanians were literate

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JRJenss@reddit

Why was it so low in Russia and Poland?

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Archaeopteryx111@reddit

Feudalism.

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JRJenss@reddit

Lucky, hmmm...yeah, somewhat I guess - with respect to Austria. Not so much with respect to our own nobility, and since Croatia had an autonomy, the Croatian parliament abolished serfdom only in 1848.

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Archaeopteryx111@reddit

Well, Romania was stuck between three empires (AH, Russia, and Ottomans) who each wanted different things from us. The Ottomans forbade Romania from trading with anyone else, so that kept us backwards for hundreds of years. Hungarians also used Romanians as serfs and forbade them from being part of the nobility. Russia stole our territories. 🤷

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alexidhd@reddit

You're right, but being honest out of all 3 empires, the Austrian/Habsburg and later Austria Hungary was by far the most beneficial to us. During the time they ruled over Transylvania they laid the first railways in Banat and between Arad-Alba Iulia. They founded industrial institutions like the Hunedoara Iron Foundry and the Resita Forge and later Resita Locomotive Manufacturing Plant - both of wich will later become giant pillars of Romanian industry. Also, they were the first ones in our part of europe to establish a mandatory period of primary education for all children across the empire (6 years of education were mandatory in Transylvania since the Habsburg era, before Austria Hungary)

Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly like modern day Austrians but I appreciate some of the historic legacy they left us.

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Archaeopteryx111@reddit

Yes, they were the best by far TBH. All of their former territories are better organized, more literate, more advanced… etc compared to Ottoman and Russian ruled territories.

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alexidhd@reddit

Absolutely. One of the few empires that implemented state reforms and administrative upgrades uniformly across the entire empire. Speaking of being better organised, a wild example of this is the cadastral survey. Banat and Transylvania both started their cadastral documentation in 1794(as did all other parts of the empire) starting with urban areas and government buildings. In comparison, the first law that established and regulated the cadastral matters at a national level across Romania only came out in... 1933.

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Archaeopteryx111@reddit

Romanians have always been very hard to organize. Each person thinks they are a genius.

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FuckTheCake@reddit

Poles won’t admit it but the Soviet Union civilised them

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Accomplished-Gas-288@reddit

By 1939, 80-85% of the country was literate, so no, the Soviet Union has nothing to do with this.

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

It didn’t - it destroyed them.

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terra_filius@reddit

because you cant drink the alphabet

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JRJenss@reddit

LOL!!!

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Few_Concentrate_6708@reddit

agrarian societies

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JRJenss@reddit

Yeah, good point.

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Ok-Acanthisitta2282@reddit

Large peasantry population, inept education systems.

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RedLemonSlice@reddit

r/portugalsukablyat

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tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit

Ottoman Empire. No it wasn’t because “Arabic script wasn’t considered in the literacy figures”, it’s because the Ottoman Empire did nothing to promote growth of the places it occupied.

And everyone was dumb, savage and illiterate.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

The Iberian peninsula and south Italy were also fcked like us ,I think it is more like a north vs south (excluding the east) problem rather than the Ottoman empire exclusively ,which of course kept us dumb.

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tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit

I mean Russia is pretty illiterate too. Maybe they’re all illiterate for their own reasons but it was the Ottoman Empire in our case specifically. Look at Croatia and Vojvodina

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

They were under the Austro-Hungarian empire,how do you explain sourh Italy and Iberia??
The hot sun makes people dumber🤣🤣

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Automatic-Sea-8597@reddit

Southern Italy and Sardinia was under Spanish reign for a long time.

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tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit

> I mean Russia is pretty illiterate too

2/3 of Bosnia is snowy and cold. As is northern Romania. Both savage and illiterate at this time due to history of ottoman occupation

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I did not mean it has be cold,the sun in the south hits differently🤣🤣
It is a regional issue not a weather problem,this map reflects modern societies too ,south italy ,spain and portugal are still underdeveloped ,they had nothing to with the ottoman empire

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Commercial_Law_1689@reddit

Ottoman empire kept us dumb too. The whole model was moronic on it's period of expansion and they never moved to modernise and improve at the rates necessary to affect any meaningful change in this regard.

As far as the Padisah was concerned all the non elites were good for were levies and taxes.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

I said that but it was not just the Ottoman thing ,the hot sun makes you also dumber🤣🤣🤣

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Commercial_Law_1689@reddit

Lol true. I was trying to conquer a massive kumpir when i read that. 😅

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Few_Concentrate_6708@reddit

Low literacy was the standard for all agrarian, non-industrialized regions of Europe at the time, including Southern Italy, Spain, and the Russian Empire.

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No_Bluebird9028@reddit

What about Finland and Estonia?

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Asleep_Company4166@reddit

Population is so low. Besides Nordic countries are sailors mostly, so they are usually multilingual thanks to sailing and trading in and outsea.

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No_Bluebird9028@reddit

I don't dispute this thesis, but let me point out that the countries in the south are divided into regions with different levels. I agree with this, it's fair, apparently, and somehow correlates with reality. But the north of Europe is very diverse. In some places this is true, but in others it is completely untrue. The example with Finland is simply very illustrative. The north of Finland at that time led a very backward way of life, just like the overwhelming majority of provinces in Estonia. This is simply true from reality, but this is not reflected on the map. Similarly, England: London and its suburbs are equal to northern Scotland. This is very confusing, isn't it?

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ysgall@reddit

In 1900, the Highlands of Scotland would have had a literacy rate comparable to that of London.

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Archaeopteryx111@reddit

Finland was part of Sweden for a long time. Estonia had German influence. Same with western Poland.

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No_Bluebird9028@reddit

Are we talking about 1900, right? These territories had been part of Russia for a very long time, and the German population had already migrated to Moscow and St. Petersburg; they simply didn't make up a significant percentage of the population in 1900.

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Archaeopteryx111@reddit

Finland was part of the Russian empire but it was autonomous from what I remember.

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No_Bluebird9028@reddit

You remember correctly, but Finland is a rather large country, and the inhabitants of the south and north of the tundra are at different levels and the color scheme should be different, but this is not the case; it is simply not a serious approach.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

What about them??are you american?🤣🤣

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No_Bluebird9028@reddit

No, they were part of the Russian Empire at the time. It's strange that these agricultural territories had a higher literacy rate than the Russian capital, St. Petersburg. After this gaffe, there are doubts about the authenticity of other regions, such as southern Europe, something clearly wasn't taken into account.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Maybe at that time but they were part of Sweden what before and for very long,that is why.
The maps looks perfectly accurate and it literally reflects the nowadays development of all of the countries .

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No_Bluebird9028@reddit

I can explain a little, please note that all of southern Europe is divided into small provinces with often different distribution by color scheme. Northern Europe is practically not there. This is already a little confusing, but if you look at the angle, then in the example of Finland, this is especially striking, since the north of Finland was mostly a reindeer herding and hunting area. I consider it almost in a primitive state. It is not honorable to simply engage in manipulation.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

You are making stuff up ,the map is very accurate

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No_Bluebird9028@reddit

You are free to count as you like, but I just gave you a clear example with Finland. For those who have at least a little common sense, these are obvious things.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

You made a wrong assumption they were for very long time under swedish rule and very literate by the 1900s

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kouyehwos@reddit

They were part of the Russian Empire at the time, but they were former parts of the Swedish Empire, with significant Swedish and German minorities.

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No_Bluebird9028@reddit

Yes, but not in northern Finland.

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Commercial_Law_1689@reddit

Russian empire.

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tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit

I wonder why our countries were non-industrialized and agrarian …

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Archaeopteryx111@reddit

Spain and Italy clearly had more literate people than the Balkans. The Ottoman empire and Russia never moved beyond feudalism until they collapsed.

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Senor-Marston389@reddit

Illiteracy is the norm in human history. Northwest Europe, not the Ottoman Empire is the outlier here.

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tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit

So it looks like northwest Europe changed for the better, and ottomans stayed stuck in the past, stubborn and ignorant.

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rini_nini@reddit

Wrong

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tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit

Right

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Vestout@reddit

Fuck off with that already. Just annoying at this Point.

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tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit

It’s clearly the reason. And until it’s met with absolutely no push back and until people stop asking questions because they know it’s the answer, the fact will have to be repeated.

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shko-der@reddit

But my friend they paved 100 km of cartroads in albania during they 500 years of occupation.

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tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit

Would you believe they even built 3, maybe 4 bridges in Bosnia during the 400 years they were there (that look like shit)

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NecessaryDisaster498@reddit

Yeah man the gazillion wars certainly didnt do anything and it most solely and only be because of the Ottomans, hence every christian region is hyper-educated with +90% literacy... Oh wait it isnt the case. Almost as if the reality of things is multi-dimensional.

Ottoman Empire did nothing to promote growth of the places it occupied.

Buddy at least try.

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alexidhd@reddit

The balkans had a pretty normal or average literacy rate for that era, countries like Spain, Italy, great parts of France, and everything east of Germany, including Russia, was in almost the same situation as us.

The outlier here are Germany, the UK and the Nordics who achieved incredible rates of literacy in their populations - each of them due to a different set of factors!

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Excellent_Jeweler_43@reddit

People dont really grasp how much the Victorian era has propelled the UK forward. There is still a bunch of infrastructure still in use all those years later

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alexidhd@reddit

Not only the UK, the entire world! Considering that the Victorian era goes from 1837 to 1901 - it was a time of enormous changes across all countries. Railway projects started popping up all over the place in all countries (the UK started earlier but by mid century even in the balkans we were building railways), steam powered ships transformed maritime trade into something reliable, in 1866 the first trans-atlantic telegraph cable became operational. Basically, most of the foundations of the modern world were laid during this era...

But, funnily enough, both Germany and the UK achieved such a high literacy purely because of religious reasons.

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Block-Rockig-Beats@reddit

But I disagree - the propelleration of the UK will not be forgotten by the whole world, except maybe by those 20 counties that the UK didn't found time to wage war against.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

The map of gdp per capita of the recent years looks similiar to this map😅😅

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AdFree2000@reddit

What the hell happens in northern Russia?

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

Oil & gas.

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

and svalbard

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Could be the gas pipes passing through but Idk ,just speculating

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

Belgrade going strong

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

True ,hard to deny that Belgrade is most developed in the western Balkans and very places also very high in the whole Balkans,facts are facts my Vucic-bot friend🤣🤣

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AdvantageStatus4635@reddit

thanks friend🤣🤣

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

The lack of blue spots in Albania…

https://i.redd.it/3ip7jk57v52h1.gif

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Catman_192@reddit

Portugal is balkanic again.

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

https://i.redd.it/4o3ceb30p62h1.gif

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Lipa2014@reddit

Ever heard of the Turks and the Ottoman Empire?

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Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit

Education came together with the industrialization of a country. Industrial workers need to be able to at least follow some basic instructions.

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TheEagle74m@reddit

Thank Ottomans

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Aggorf12345@reddit

Ngl I am more surprised by how high it was in northwestern Europe

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Young_Owl99@reddit

Protestant reformation had its benefits. It promoted reading the bible in own language.

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Sylassian@reddit

Multiple languages clashing. Austria-Hungary was trying to impose either German or Hungarian on slavic nations, meanwhile the slavs were trying to get their own languages into schools and local government. Probably also poor census methods biased towards German/Hungarian. A lot of people in 1900s Balkans were functionally literate, i.e. they could read and write and do numbers as much as their occupations demanded. Most slavic nationals were at least bilingual by necessity.

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AgitatedSplit4039@reddit

It's so annoying when turkiye gets purposefully erased from these maps

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Apatride@reddit

Industrialisation. Literacy is needed for factory workers, not for farmers.

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Important_Win_1718@reddit

Congrats brown area so improved that they invented they/them article in next generation

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VladimirLogos@reddit

1min og Googling says this is bullshit.

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UltraTata@reddit

HRE plus North Sea Empire

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Yto_Itinen@reddit

We were still figuring out that alphabet thingy

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Substratas@reddit (OP)

gif

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Yto_Itinen@reddit

https://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfabeti_shqip lexo paragrafin "Historia"

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

E lexova ,ku thot debat cyrilic vs latin??

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Yto_Itinen@reddit

Germa greke, faji im

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Ku e thot??te ai link qe ke cu ti jo iher

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Yto_Itinen@reddit

"Historia e alfabeteve të mëpasme të shqipes lidhet ngushtë me ndikimin fetar te shqiptarët. Shkrimtarët nga viset veriore përdornin alfabetin latin nën ndikimin e Kishës Katolike, ndërsa ata nga viset jugore përdornin alfabetin grek nga ndikimi i Kishës Ortodokse; të tjerë përdorën alfabetin arab (Elifbaja shqipe) nga ndikimi i fesë islame. Përgjatë viteve 1750-1850 pati përpjekje për thurjen e një alfabeti origjinal shqiptar. Alfabeti i tanishëm është njëri nga dy variantet që u miratuan në Kongresin e Manastirit, mbajtur nga intelektualët shqiptarë në vitin 1908"

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Po pra ku ka debat te perdorim grekun apo latin apo arabin??
Thuhet qe gjat shekujve kta kan perdor latinin e kta tjeret grekun

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Yto_Itinen@reddit

Po pra, secili perdorte te vetin, sipas fese dhe vendbanimit,se ne asnje rast nuk kishte uniformitet. Ketu e ke pak me gjate historine mbi Kongresin: https://gazeta-shqip.com/arti/pse-faik-konica-refuzoi-kongresin-e-manastirit/

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Skishte unitet me kishte debat ne kongres per ke te perdorim ndryshojn shum,sjam duke e lexu ate po deshe ma referenco tekstin ku e thot gazeta po ne ne histori e kemi msu ndryshe