So, it turns out the two-seat Su-57D does exist!
Posted by EaRLyHawk924@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 111 comments
The first test flight of the prototype of the fifth-generation two-seat fighter Su-57 has taken place, reported First Deputy Prime Minister of Russia Denis Manturov.
"Flight tests of the prototype of the fifth-generation two-seat fighter Su-57 have begun. This aircraft, initiated by our aircraft manufacturers, in addition to its unique combat characteristics, will also have the functionality of a combat trainer aircraft and the capabilities of a battle management aircraft."
The aircraft was flown by Hero of Russia test pilot Sergey Bogdan. The flight proceeded normally in accordance with the flight mission conditions.
"Today, our aircraft manufacturers are ensuring unprecedented production volumes of aircraft needed by the troops and are continuously working on the development of modern aviation systems. The two-seat Su-57 variant, created by specialists of the Sukhoi Design Bureau, can be used not only for pilot training but also for the organization and control of combat operations of a joint group of manned and unmanned aviation, forming a unified information and control space," Rostec said.
According to Manturov, the new Su-57 "in addition to its unique combat characteristics, will also have the functionality of a combat trainer aircraft and the capabilities of a battle management aircraft."
post-explainer@reddit
Please provide a source by replying to the message that was sent to you. Failure to respond to that message will result in the automatic removal of this post. Please feel free to reach out to the mod team through modmail if you have any questions or concerns.
r/Aviation is trialing new measures to prevent karma farming. Please feel free to provide feedback through modmail. Thank you for participating in the community!
scottydg@reddit
Amazing. Post explainer had its post removed.
giulimborgesyt@reddit
what happened here?
scottydg@reddit
The OP probably mentioned some banned words in a banned order in their explanation and got their comment removed and this one also flagged.
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
Most likely. I simply attached links to the sources: the official statement from UAC on their website and on their X and Facebook channels. Reddit, a famously apolitical company /s, automatically deletes any posts containing links with the .ru domain, as far as I understand.
giulimborgesyt@reddit
oof. the criteria behind getting a comment removed by reddit is quite stupid tbh. I got a 3d reddit ban from a south park meme (apparently the word nuts is banned)
allahakbau@reddit
Su57 looks great, one of the best looking fighters of all time. Other than that it is a pile of garbage amongst fifth gen.
wildrabbit12@reddit
“Fifth generation”
Texas_Kimchi@reddit
Fifth Generation of the Fourth Generation fighter
yznalslm@reddit
Fourth Generation Pro Max
SMOKE2JJ@reddit
But will it fold? 🤔
_gmmaann_@reddit
That’s how many will pass before it’s ready
kittenfartastic@reddit
5th gen Russian fighter might field in decent numbers about a decade after the US and China field their 6th gens...
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
More like 4.5 gen with that big ass canopy, rivets, and panel gaps
edward_droger@reddit
First,its an early prototype. Second,it's not mean to be used for deep penetration strikes. Third and the most important, russian philosophy of stealth is different then America's. You can disagree with their style or consider it inferior but you can't say they don't know what they are doing.
Immediate-Spite-5905@reddit
What's this mysterious "Russian stealth doctrine"? Stealth has two uses, penetrating into contested airspace and hitting someone before they know you're there
edward_droger@reddit
I will explain briefly. It's the difference between minimizing probability of detection and minimizing probability of successful engagement. Su57 has substantial frontal reduction(in bvr locking on tail of an aircraft is pretty hard and radar power drops quickly with distance),partial broadband reduction,acceptable side/rear signatures and heavy use of EW to fill gaps. Himalayas suite integrates DRFM,active jamming,deception,emitter geolocation and decoy support.Russians have accepted higher absolute RCS in exchange for better kinematics,larger control surfaces,wider sensor apertures,easier maintenance and higher speed and agility. It will rely on its large iwb to carry long range missiles to attack targets at stand off range. Deep penetration strikes will instead be done by s70 through mumt. Su57 also heavily focuses on passive sensing with its irst and rf sensing. It also has L band radars on its wing root leading edges which clearly shows an attempt to use the platform to hunt other 5th gen fighters. It can work as forward sensor node in Russian iads.
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
So basically russia sacrificed stealth in their "stealth" fighter, in order to have easier maintenance and carrier more fancy gadgets. Got it.
edward_droger@reddit
Come on, man. If you here to do trolling just say so. Dont dilute the quality of discourse. I know this not a defence sub and these things are a little difficult to understand but bear with me for a while,ok?
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
Brudda if it ain't stealth it ain't stealth. And if it's supposed to be close to the enemy, what's the point of putting this on their "stealth" jet? Prototypes should at least be close to what the real thing is gonna look like (especially considering how small the su57 production is)
edward_droger@reddit
What is your criteria for a stealth fighter?
I don't clearly understand what are you trying to say here. If you asking its use case then it will be used a trainer and command and control aircraft. Russia is developing okhotnik for mumt.
In terms of base design it does. You complaining for manufacturing problem like rivets and panel gaps. As more prototypes roll out these things will be sorted out like it did for su57.
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
1) my criteria for a stealth fighter is that it's stealth. You cannot seriously look at this and say it's stealth. 2) typo by me. I meant to say "and if it's NOT supposed to be close..." 3) Given how they're already being used in combat and in their production model... I would hope these issues were already sorted out
edward_droger@reddit
Seriously!? I thought we were having an intellectual discussion here. Atleast,give one criteria.
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
Yeah sorry about that.
My criteria for a stealth fighter is that is should have a low RCS. The panel gaps and rivets present on the SU57's production model give it a higher RCS than the majority of 5th gen, truly stealth aircraft
edward_droger@reddit
How low? Equal to f22? Then a lot of 5th gen fighters will lose their stealth fighter status. If you are talking in terms of bvr combat,then su57 frontal rcs is equit low. Locking on tail of aircraft is already hard as radar power falls at 1/d⁴ with increase in distance. Su57 will also try to rely on its supermanuveurability to kinematically beat the missile.
The generally agreed criterias for 5th gen fighter are: - low observability - supercruise - high level sensor fusion Though some people say das is also imp. So,su57 ticks all the boxes thus it is a fifth gen fighter. Now, you could argue that it is massively inferior to american jets but that's not that point i am trying to make.
WoodersonHurricane@reddit
I think you found Putin's burner account.
C4-621-Raven@reddit
Brother, you cannot still be having “early prototypes” 16 (yes, SIXTEEN) years after the first flight of the type.
edward_droger@reddit
Early prototype of su57d.
Raid-Z3r0@reddit
Inteligence reports point that the radar cross-section of the SU-57 is similar to the F/A-18 a notorious stealth fighter /s
ncoremeister@reddit
Can be used for unmanned aviation. Increases the number of pilots. ???
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
The second crew member will be a UAV operator.
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
What UAV though? They had one, they broke it.
Sukhoi S-70 Okhotnik-B - Wikipedia
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
Yeah, S-70 Okhotnik. Russia has more than one of those UAVs.
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
They had one prototype, one 'production'
They lost control of the production one, and it got shot down.
So by my mathematical expertise, they now have 0.
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
>They had one prototype, one 'production'
>They lost control of the _production one_, and it got shot down.
2 - 1 = 0?
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
Prototypes serve their purpose, then are shelved to the point of inoperability.
That's why you can see the su-47 on google maps.
Yes, they have zero.
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
Even if so, what's stopping them from producing more?
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
They lost contact with it due to the design of the radio signal being inherently flawed. This was really quite predictable to anyone who dabbles in sub ghz radio communications.
The assumption was they could piggyback GPS worry free. Reality said otherwise.
The lack of redundancy proved the system failed real world applications.
They can make make more, but why would they? It's a lot of money to spend on a system to win propaganda points back home.
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
Hmm...interesting. Do you have sources for these statements? It would be interesting to read.
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
Look up 'r-168 akveduk'
At the end of the day it's still just VHF/UHF, along with all of its shortcomings.
While a single unit would (supposedly) be able to hop at a frequency that would outpace the $500 of jamming I could do with my own equipment. I'm sure for a few thousand I could lock down a dozen sq km from functioning (I don't, and have never tried, because its illegal).
That's the main shortcoming in a nut shell. As long as I keep throwing shit at it, there is no amount of power that can be realistically overcome the noise. Especially not packed into an aircraft of any sort.
It requires a disproportionate amount power to push through the noise.
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
Um...so can you provide any sources? An article, or someone's research on this topic, or some kind of investigation? I want to study the issue, and for that I need sources.
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
There are nothing short of tens of thousands published academic papers on the function of radio signals.
Start there.
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
What...? No, apparently I expressed myself incorrectly. I'm asking you to give me links to sources that analyze the specific case of the loss of control of the S-70 Okhotnik that you're talking about. You speak about the causes with such confidence; surely you have materials from respected and established experts, based on which you formed your opinion. Can you please show them? I would very much like to read them.
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
Why dont you find them yourself... Oh wait, you don't want to see motherland russia in a negative way 😢
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
Um...because you didn't give me any specific works or studies? That's what I'm asking you for now, isn't it? Give me at least the titles of articles or investigations - anything that can back up your claims.
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
One search is all it takes 😭
https://frontliner.ua/en/the-downed-russian-sukhoi-s-70-okhotnik-b-drone-in-ukraine-debunked-its-developers-claims/
https://www.twz.com/air/russias-s-70-hunter-drone-was-armed-when-shot-down-by-friendly-fighter-over-ukraine
EaRLyHawk924@reddit (OP)
Yeah, naaah. Sorry, but I can't accept the Frontliner link. It's a biased and highly politicized source. Even this specific article claims that the drone was shot down not out of fear of technology leakage, but because of its "primitiveness" and "backwardness," which, together with the thesis about "total worthlessness" and "embezzlement" of funds, is political rather than technical, and goes beyond constructive criticism, making the material biased.
As for twz, the article is not bad, but it absolutely does not explain the reasons for the loss of communication with the drone. I know about the incident on October 5th, I don't deny it. I was asking for sources that prove that this happened supposedly because of the R-168 Akveduk and other theses mentioned here (https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1thveqz/comment/omqwfty/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). The twz materials don't claim anything like that, so unfortunately, this source also doesn't confirm the commenter's words.
quietflyr@reddit
... Neither of those sources support your claims
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
My claims? I'm a different person. But these sources DO support his original claim where he said "They lost control of the production one, and it got shot down."
quietflyr@reddit
... then congratulations on supporting a claim nobody disagreed with or questioned?
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
Wtf are you talking about dude. You're not the guy I was replying to. Anyhow, the guy I was talking to wanted proof, so I provided it
quietflyr@reddit
They weren't asking for proof one of them got shot down. Nobody questions or disputes that part.
They wanted proof of the claimed inherent deficiencies in the design of the communication systems on the S-70.
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
Goodness gracious, here is the EXACT quote from the dude im talking to: "What...? No, apparently I expressed myself incorrectly. I'm asking you to give me links to sources that analyze the specific case of the loss of control of the S-70 Okhotnik that you're talking about. You speak about the causes with such confidence; surely you have materials from respected and established experts, based on which you formed your opinion. Can you please show them? I would very much like to read them."
I don't know why YOURE getting involved in this bruh. Downvoting me for being right is wild
quietflyr@reddit
FFS its right there. Your sources said NOTHING about the causes. You need to learn to read.
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
Ignoring the fact that thee of YOUR claims were wrong, but of course you're never wrong.
quietflyr@reddit
I didn't make any claims! What is going on with people?!
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
1st. "They weren't asking for proof one of them got shot down. Nobody questions or disputes that part."
2nd. "Neither of those sources support your claims
3rd. "Your sources said NOTHING about the causes."
Now please stop arguing
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
Interesting... Why, only after being proven wrong, would u/quietflyr delete his account and all his comments? Weird...
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
Dude deleted his reply and still downvoted me 😭 Some people man...
quietflyr@reddit
JFC...
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
You literally did dude.
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
The 2nd article has a link to a page that gives the reasoning... I did not post these sources for you anyway
Late-Scarcity-6916@reddit
Holy Jesus you're dumb. One search is all it takes 😭
https://frontliner.ua/en/the-downed-russian-sukhoi-s-70-okhotnik-b-drone-in-ukraine-debunked-its-developers-claims/
https://www.twz.com/air/russias-s-70-hunter-drone-was-armed-when-shot-down-by-friendly-fighter-over-ukraine
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment has been removed for breaking the r/aviation rules.
This subreddit is open for civil, friendly discussion about our common interest, aviation. Excessively rude, mean, unfriendly, or hostile conduct is not permitted. Any form of racism or hate speech will not be tolerated.
If you believe this was a mistake, please message the moderators through modmail.
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment has been removed for breaking the r/aviation rules.
This subreddit is open for civil, friendly discussion about our common interest, aviation. Excessively rude, mean, unfriendly, or hostile conduct is not permitted. Any form of racism or hate speech will not be tolerated.
If you believe this was a mistake, please message the moderators through modmail.
Belfastscum@reddit
Be cool if the had a helmet that could do that
CombatPilot2@reddit
Production Su-57 come with a HUD-equipped helmet so I would assume a modified version of it will be given to the second crew member to allow him to "see" S-70s from BVR? Idk just speculating
ncoremeister@reddit
What is it, a tank? Needs more space, expensive pilot, shouldn't manned unmanned systems decrease the pilots work?
TheCanadianAviator@reddit
Mysterious downvotes
sadjoe7@reddit
Is it just me or is the camo starting to look really tacky?
I-LOVE-TURTLES666@reddit
What in tarnation? Yikes….
quietflyr@reddit
So, the bubble canopies on the F-22 and F-35 are also non-stealth?
Sentinel-Wraith@reddit
So, the bubble canopies on the F-22 and F-35 are also non-stealth?
Nope. They use special Gold and Pink canopy glass with stealth elements.
quietflyr@reddit
And your evidence that the Su-57 doesn't use a similar coating is... What?
PicnicBasketPirate@reddit
Don't mind me. I'm just here for the flame wars between fanbois and bots glazing over fictional "capabilities".
Anyone want popcorn?
TastyCalligrapher421@reddit
Same, came here exactly for that.
Do you have cookies?
ketchup1345@reddit
I love reading the comments about 5th generation as people forget that the Felon is still in development and these are all pre production aircraft 😂
TurnoverMysterious64@reddit
It entered service 6 years ago with ~30 production aircraft produced in those six years (an average of one aircraft every two months).
ketchup1345@reddit
Those are still pre production. The Russian VVS has entered a select bunch of early Felons to test their capabilities on the back lines and to test at Kapustin Yar. UAC do their own testing of the Felon. .
But the truth lies in the fact that the SU-57M will be the first production model that will be 'mass produced'.
Walbabyesser@reddit
„that will be mass produced“ - Wouldn‘t hold my breath till then 😬
Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit
And that’s the thing. The Russians are fully capable of producing high-end prototypes. It’s converting those prototypes into a mass produced system that’s the problem. And you can’t even really call the Su-57 “mass produced” when the total buy is for 76 planes; there’s no economy of scale!
Pre-Ukraine they could leverage the export market to underwrite those development costs and bring per unit prices down. But post-Ukraine that’s no longer the case.
TastyCalligrapher421@reddit
There's reports India is going to buy the SU-57 because Russia is offering full IP transfer and codebase access, who knows how true those reports are.
TurnoverMysterious64@reddit
No they’re not. The SU-57M is a new variant of a model that has already entered production. It’s still effectively in low-rate initial production (LRIP) and not mass-production, due in part to sanctions making components harder to get.
LRIP is still “production” and not “pre-production” or “prototype” production and is very typical of the early production stages of any complex system. It functions to help work out any issues in the manufacturing process before investing in larger mass-production facilities and equipment while also training up an initial workforce that can then be used to train the larger pool of workers for mass-production.
In the case of the Su-57, it’s still in LRIP due to sanctions making both manufacturing equipment and certain components hard to obtain, along with funding issues due to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine that directs money towards areas of immediate need, and finally huge labor shortage issues that are constraining Russia’s ability to grow the pool of skilled labor needed for mass production.
Imtherealwaffle@reddit
su-57s is serial production, or maybe you could consider it lrip. But i dont know anyone who would call them pre production jets.
ketchup1345@reddit
Their role is as test aircraft. No SU-57 so far does any combat work other than at the far back. And they were ordered by the VVS as an aircraft to evaluate it's performance, not to put under any duties. This is where the SU-57M will take over as the initial production aircraft.
Imtherealwaffle@reddit
oh ok. maybe im just using the wrong definition or something. Its just that most english language reportings and translation refer to it as a production or serial-production spec. Im not disagreeing with you but it just seems a bit odd. For example even the in the initial su-57s delivery to the vks for type training and evalution, those were still combat-coded aircraft and you have to assume the ones that are aiding in sead operations and launching standoff munitions near the front have reached IOC. Like if you look at the f-22 raptor, the initial non combat coded lot of aircraft that they use for iot&e and type training were still considered production aircraft. idk maybe its a western vs eastern naming convention thing.
Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit
Schrödinger’s Felon: Tankies claim it’s a fully functional 5th gen fighter but it’s also totally just a preproduction jet that’s “still in development” and that’s why it’s a hangar princess.
TurnoverMysterious64@reddit
The prominent identification in this post of the Su-57 as “fifth generation”, the reference to the test pilot has “Hero of Russia” and the rapid downvote response towards comments that are critical of the Su-57 make this post rather suspicious in my opinion.
Far-Yellow9303@reddit
As the F-35 is still in development, with the upcoming Block 4 being the definitive version, the 1300 aircraft made to date are prototypes too
kingtacticool@reddit
The Felon? You mean the F-47?
ketchup1345@reddit
Is it not called the Sukhoi SU-57 'Felon'. I'm sorry if I'm wrong.
_deltaVelocity_@reddit
The joke is that the F-47 is very obviously named such to curry favor with the current American president, and that said president is a convicted felon.
ketchup1345@reddit
Oh lmfao. Makes sense now 😂
Ok_Assumption1542@reddit
Cool, they can finally train someone to fly the other 2. Lol
_Van1ll_@reddit
The other 40*
Expensive-Yam-634@reddit
Does the sunroom add to the rcs?
Cheap-Bell-4389@reddit
They took a very sexy aircraft and ruined it.
The F-15E managed to incorporate a second seat without absolutely destroying the aesthetic.
Neither-Way-4889@reddit
If the Su-57 is fifth generation then the F-35 must be ninth generation
747ER@reddit
“Our propaganda is better than yours”
Belfastscum@reddit
Don't need propaganda to see the US has 5 stealth aircraft
Russia has 1?
CourseOk3243@reddit
HOLY MOTHER OF CHICKEN NUGGUTS ON SAND ISLAND ITS MOTHER FUCKING REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CombatPilot2@reddit
Absolutely lovely aircraft, single seater still wins the beauty awards but this is so sexy
Especially the camouflage with the double entwinding stripe.
Professional_Will241@reddit
I really like the look of it. Too bad it’s not quite combat effective yet.
CombatPilot2@reddit
Of course, it's still a prototype. Honestly cannot wait to see how good it will look with finish & RAM coating, probably will look all the more sleek
Desi0190@reddit
Yet it sets the Su-57 back another 10 years…
OkRoyal8157@reddit
Fifth generation smoking hole in the ground…
Pancake177@reddit
I know they are different types of aircraft, but that livery screams I’m a deception.
vivons_nus@reddit
The two-seat version looks much less “sexy”, less bad ass
SOMEONEunknown24@reddit
What in the Yak-130 is that (yes I'm gonna post this picture under every post of the Su-57D)
margotsaidso@reddit
Politics aside, the Su-57 is just a sexy plane period.
Crispy_Chips__o_o@reddit
Mediocre aircraft and all but it reminds of those sci-fi concept art of advanced aircraft and space fighters ngl