How do Romanians feel about their underwhelming history?
Posted by crivycouriac@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 50 comments
Other Romance countries; France, Italy, Spain and Portugal, have all had massive influences on the world and global history, while Romania was really underwhelming in comparison with virtually no global outreach.
How do Romanians feel about this?
jinawee@reddit
Any particular reason you single out Romania and not any other Balkan country? Are you a troll?
crivycouriac@reddit (OP)
Other Balkan countries don’t have such a strong case for comparison.
Who could Albanians compare themselves to?
jinawee@reddit
All Slavic countries could compare themselves with Russia. Albanian is an Indo-European language, so they could compare themselves to USA, Iran, India... Also, why should they compare themselves to their linguistic subfamily?
crivycouriac@reddit (OP)
Only Serbs could really compare themselves to Russia as being Russophilic is a main part of their national identity. Other Slavic countries either despise Russia or Russia doesn’t play any role for them.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
That's because your history is underwhelming.
jinawee@reddit
Then by your logic Romanians are Portugalphilic?
crivycouriac@reddit (OP)
They closely identify with the listed countries
jinawee@reddit
How closely?
Classic-Exit4189@reddit
Bro its obvious rage bait. Most posts on this subreddit are.
ExpertStandard1977@reddit
Never gave it a second thought. How do Slovenians feel about their own underwhelming history?
crivycouriac@reddit (OP)
We don’t really have anyone to compare ourselves to, do we?
jinawee@reddit
Austria.
crivycouriac@reddit (OP)
Why exactly?
rini_nini@reddit
Slovakia
crivycouriac@reddit (OP)
Doesn’t do anything in your favor
Prestigious-Job-9825@reddit
Those other countries you mentioned didn't have to fight for survival against the nearby Ottoman Empire, which was pretty much the world's number 1 expansionist superpower for a while.
crivycouriac@reddit (OP)
Spain and Portugal in particular were under Arab rule for centuries and became global powers almost immediately after freeing themselves
jinawee@reddit
Spain didnt exist when the Peninsula was under Arab rule.
Lazy-Relationship-34@reddit
What's more, I think that you underestimate just how beneficial affiliation to Catholicism had been for centuries for most countries in Europe. It came with institutional stability, cultural and scientific exchanges, and valuable diplomatic networks. You have examples of countries such as Hungary, who even though they were not part of the Latindom, thanks to their Catholic affiliation, benefitted from a scholarly golden age alongside Catholic Central Europe. Looking at the Balkans, we see a part of Europe that culturally perished with the fall of Constantinopole. After the Byzantium, who actively spread its religion, law, and culture to the Balkans, fell under the Ottoman onslaught, its former "Commonwealth" is disconnected from the advances that would have naturally flowed west to east had 1453 not happened.
Prestigious-Job-9825@reddit
Yeah, being right next to an ocean that connected europe with a huge undiscovered continent was also a huge boon, don't you think? Access to huge uncolonized lands wasn't something Romania had.
You just can't call out Romanians for not being able to build up the same colonial empire as the spanish, the portoguese, and the french did. That's just not fair or logical.
Lazy-Relationship-34@reddit
After the Moors transformed the Iberian Peninsula into a powerhouse and the Spaniards appropriated this and the wealth of Sephardic Jews that has just been expelled during the Inquisition? Wallachians and Moldavians did not luck out in this department.
Economy-Pen-2271@reddit
How I see Romanians are survivors in their region, where others didn't. They survived the cumans, The Hungarians,the Pope, the Mongols, The ottmans etc
GeorgeSupremu@reddit
Romanian history goes back to 6000 BC
ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit
All the indo-european cultures are max 4000-4500 years old
PoliticalWaxwing@reddit
It doesn't.
GeorgeSupremu@reddit
Search Cucuteni civilization
PoliticalWaxwing@reddit
To remark that the Cucuteni archeological culture was Romanian is the same as saying the Neanderthals were French.
Sea_Gap_6569@reddit
Albanian history goes back 6000 times more
According_Tax8778@reddit
It does
Critical-Ad-8507@reddit
There are countries that colonized and now hate themselves for it.
There are countries that colonized and are still proud of it.
Then there are countries like Romania who kind of got born from a colonization and survived multiple others like a historical underdog.
Potential-Volume6001@reddit
I always forget which one is Slovenia and which one is Slovakia. Sorry, Slovakia.
alexidhd@reddit
I think we played the best we could with the hand we were dealt. Most of our historical trajectory has been decided by geography, this was also true for most countries until recent times.
If you look at our territory, it doesn't have much resources that would have been relevant during the period that France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, the UK etc have established themselves as great powers. Sure, we have some oil and some natural gas, ores, uranium and a bunch of other things that would only become relevant in 19th century and would have been useless before that.
Another aspect of our territory is the fact that even though we have a massive mountain range in the middle of the country, there are mostly no natural barriers between us and our neighbours (maybe the Danube but even the Romans crossed it in war). This is not an issue nowadays but for most of our history we were surrounded by very powerful empires that have invaded us more than once... (The Ottomans, the Russian Empire and Austria-Hungary).
From a more global perspective, we do have sea-access! It's nice for commerce but it would have been pointless for us to try becoming a formidable naval force, again because of geography just not ours in this case. Nowadays the strait of Bosforus is governed by the principles of the Montreaux convention, meaning that all nations with territory at Black Sea hold a right of transit/passage as that's the only way that connects the black sea to the planetary ocean. But this was not always the case, prior to the convention it was up to Turkey to set up whatever rules they wanted as it was their strait - that means that building a huge navy would have been pointless, as the ability to "project power" outside the region would have depended on turkeys approval =)).
Now look at those other romance countries. Spain and Portugal got along pretty well for most of history. They have the pyrenees to separate and protect them from France and the rest of their nation was surrounded by water. Italy had the Alps to protect them against their rivals on the continent. France was protected by mountains on the south and by the atlantic coast on its eastern and northern sides, acting as a pretty good barrier between them and the UK. They also all had good natural ports and harbors on their coasts, granting them a good headstart as naval powers/trade giants. This is not to say that they lived peacefully inside their territories thanks to these barriers - they did go to war, A LOT, against direct neighbours and other european powers, they were just not under a constant threat of invasion.
FuckTheCake@reddit
They are Russoturks LARPing as French. Not comparable with these other great nations
Lazy-Relationship-34@reddit
You'll love this group, amigo r/2visegrad4you
not-sib@reddit
Yeah buddy
Axel0010110@reddit
Oh yea…
Lazy-Relationship-34@reddit
Who said that it is underwhelming?
Elmalukat@reddit
It is compared to those countries but they just had more favorable geographic positions and history
Lazy-Relationship-34@reddit
Italy: Successively conquered by Germanics, Franks, Holy Roman Empire, Spanish, French, and Austrians
Spain: Successively conquered by Germanics, Moors, and the French.
Portugal: Successively conquered by Germanics, Moors, and the French.
Romania: Successively conquered by Romans, Tribes, Hungarians, Ottomans, and Russians.
Conclusion: Romania should have chosen better conquerors to conquer it.
Kooky_Appeal_6554@reddit
I don't know where you're getting that from? Isn't Romania's history well-documented? Even individual regions... I don't want to single out Dobruja or Ada Kaleh island, but just by Googling those terms, you'll find numerous articles.
uncsc@reddit
There can be no comparison between the two.
I would personally compare Romania to other similar remnants of the Roman Empire and see how impressive it is that it managed to keep its linguistic identity and specificities despite the profound demographic and ethnic changes that this part of the Roman Empire went through.
There are no Latin speakers left in North Africa, in the Balkans, in Britain, despite all of those provinces having been Roman for far longer than Dacia.
PoliticalWaxwing@reddit
Actually there's a lot of romance populations in the Balkans, the so called vlachs.
uncsc@reddit
They fell victim to profound assimilation policies by their respective nation states, their numbers have dwindled and their languages are almost extinct, apart from Aromanian which received a lot of funding from Romania itself
crivycouriac@reddit (OP)
Brits are basically insular French larping as Germanic nowadays
Axel0010110@reddit
Why would we care? We are glad we survived lol and that is a great achievement
crimilde@reddit
You got me. I’m currently crying on my fainting couch for my country not being a former colonial power.
Lucifer_893@reddit
For most of its history the country was basically one big forest, sparsely populated, with some mountains in the center. We were a few hundred thousand people, and were surrounded by large empires. We did what we could. We are here now and the important thing is what are we going to do from now on.
According_Tax8778@reddit
Romanians should feel bad for not colonizing other parts of the world.
PoliticalWaxwing@reddit
You should maybe stay humble and avoid such empty and fruitless remarks. Were you a historian, you'd have known that there's no such thing as underwhelming and overwhelming history. You're pathetic.
ArteMyssy@reddit
couldn't care less