What's the boat market like right now?
Posted by MrsYeasty@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 62 comments
I'm just trying to gauge my personal experience over the past two years vs what everyone else is seeing. I've been trying to sell my 1987 Niagara 35 out of Oriental, NC for almost two years now. She's in the water and ready to go, but I haven't had nearly any luck with showings or folks interested in the boat. She's been listed locally as well as on Sailboat Listings. I've had my fun with the boat, and she's in great shape for what she is, but I've had three different brokers tell me flat out they can't sell it because the market is rough and "nobody is buying boats in that price range right now."
Making money on the boat really isn't a concern of mine, I just want her to get some use and get back out on the water. I'm worried that if I lower the price too much, folks will assume something is seriously wrong with it and continue to avoid it.
Is there anything in the listing that stands out as a red flag?
pdq_sailor@reddit
Friends had a Niagara 35 at our club, original but well maintained, not upgraded.. They tried to sell it for three years and annual expenses approximate 30K per season... They had continuously lowered the selling price down to $30K and then decided to donate the boat. Changing the bellows around the sail drive is about $5K, the rod rigging is original and insurance wants it replaced or inspected, Parts for the engine are near impossible to get.. Great boat but doing the deferred maintenance alone exceeds the value of the boat... and its got a balsa cored hull that needs careful inspection along with the deck.. Three years ago - one sold for $95K - now they are being donated and yes it's exactly that big a deal.
Our older boat has no deferred maintenance and has been fully upgraded.. New mast, new rudder newly done deck, hull, interior, hardwood cabin sole, new upholstery, heat pump, head, all new electric galley, inverter, Lithium batteries, LED lighting inside and out, all new wiring, flat screen, all new instruments, updated winches, sails spare engine and prop and shaft, full inventory of spare hardware.. everything.... spare sails, spare mast, boom spin pole... its NOT easy or inexpensive to own an older boat and keep it. Our boat is NOT for sale - its a keeper so I really do not care about what the market says - it works and its valuable and relevant to how we want to sail..
hertzsae@reddit
It's a buyers market. A boat that hasn't sold in two years isn't priced correctly.
And giving a link to your listing asking for problems with the listing is seen by many of us as a sneaky way of posting your listing to a sub with a no self promotions policy.
MrsYeasty@reddit (OP)
Link removed, thanks for the heads up.
DiddyOut2150@reddit
I missed the link. What is the price?
MrsYeasty@reddit (OP)
Asking $11,500 right now.
mootmutemoat@reddit
Didn't see the listing, but I assume anything 2 years old is off the market and the seller had a hard time removing the listing. Many just update with a "sold" pic because it is hard to take one down.
kinga_forrester@reddit
That’s not bad, but I agree with others about the pictures. I bet it will sell if you repost it at $9999 with at least 20 pictures.
imagine30@reddit
Here’s the reality. If you’ve had the boat listed for 2 years without any interest, then it is priced too high. It really is that simple. Sounds like you’re not in a rush to sell, so you can try to hold out for that miracle buyer, but it’s not likely. Boats are selling, I’ve reached out to 2 dealers to try to make appointments to get boats surveyed, and both had sold before I could get out to them. They were both priced attractively, and that’s the difference.
johnbro27@reddit
The longer you wait the less it's worth, sad but true. I sold a 40' motorhome last year, started at the price I wanted then gradually lowered it until I had two buyers at the same time. Could I have gotten more? Probably, but I was about to put it in storage at $300/month if it didn't sell. Rolling Stones wrote a song about this problem years ago :)
jdttx@reddit
Paint it black?
msouther70@reddit
Start Me Up?
schemathings@reddit
Salt of the Earth?
Street-Fighting Man?
j/k
turtlerunner99@reddit
You can't always get what you want .
hellowiththepudding@reddit
$50K? Yeah right…
EddieVedderIsMyDad@reddit
Your listing is pretty bad. Terrible exterior photos, terrible primary photo selection (your anchor platform is not going to sell the dream), mediocre interior photos, all right inventory but no real description and nothing about the history or maintenance schedule. There’s just nothing here to differentiate from a few hundred other cheap old boats.
OberonsGhost@reddit
If you are listening to a broker than it is probably priced too high. I pay a lot of attention to the market and brokers always want that high price to up the money they make on the percentage. I will give you my formula for pricing or buying a boat after a decade of tracking the market and it is this: Any boat older than 30 years old is worth roughly $1000 a foot unless it is a specialty boat like a catamaran or a passagemaker like a Nordhavn or Fleming and capable of an oceaan crossing or over 50 feet in length. For 50+ footer add $500 a foot or so. I then look at the boat and subtract the cost of the work that it will taKe to kick her off the dock and cruise for at least 2 years. If it is newer than 30 years old I figure out the per foot cost by taking her new price vs her 30 year per foot price and figuring the percentage. Example; $300,000 new 30 foot boat is $10,000 a foot, so to get to $1000 a foot over 30 years is a loss of $300 per foot per year and you also have to take into account the condition and history of a boat. I would offer far less for a boat that is in or ever has been in the Carribean or Gulf Coast than those that are elsewhere in the States due to storm and Hurricane damage you may not be able to see.
EddieVedderIsMyDad@reddit
Brokers don’t want to price boats high to make more commission. They want to sell boats and over priced boats don’t sell. If anything they are incentivized to get you to underprice your boat for a rapid sale. But no competent broker is interested in an $11k boat, so it’s moot to this discussion.
Icy_Respect_9077@reddit
Sailboatlistings is garbage. There's been multiple listings that I've contacted, and they tell me it's been sold.
Get a decent broker, and failing that, list on Yachtworld.
EddieVedderIsMyDad@reddit
I’ve sold two boats on sailboatlistings. They get a lot of traffic.
No broker will touch a $10k boat and if you don’t have a broker you’re not listing on YachtWorld because it’s a brokerage-only listing service with a bare minimum base price of $1k/mo for access that rapidly increases to many multiples of that for larger brokerages.
Important_Repeat_806@reddit
Sold my $50,000 boat for 16 K. You basically have to give them away. That was in November.
EddieVedderIsMyDad@reddit
What kind of boat? Why don’t think it was worth 50?
the-montser@reddit
Sorry you’re having a hard time selling it. Looks like a good boat.
That is a tough boat to find a broker to sell because the sale price is low enough that they aren’t going to be very motivated to invest much time in selling it, and rising cost of living does mean that fewer people who are looking for boats in that price range are choosing to buy.
EddieVedderIsMyDad@reddit
I can’t imagine any broker being willing to take on a $10k boat. When the total commission is $1k, there’s just no way that they can dedicate the appropriate time to capture media, build a nice listing, do showings, manage the transaction etc. Unless they value their time at $10/hr or something.
OP - your price is fine. Doubt it makes a difference if it’s $11k or $9k. You need to differentiate it against the hundreds of other 40+ year old 30-something foot monos. And that means deep cleaning, organization, staging (bedding, throw pillows, plants, etc), beautiful photos under sail and at anchor in the most beautiful place accessible to you (Ocracoke, Lookout, etc), super thorough listing that not only has a total inventory, but tells a compelling story. Then you post it everywhere - sailboatlistings (pay for featured), cruisersforum, facebook groups, marketplace, etc.
Niagara’s are good boats. Make your case for why it would fulfill someone else’s dreams.
jupiter783@reddit
“Young” families interested in boating can barely afford a house now so luxury items like boats in that price range are nonexistent. Million dollar boats and homes are being sold. But the people who can only afford a $250,000 house can’t afford a $40,000 luxury item.
JiffyMcPop@reddit
Marinas have stopped accepting monohulls over 25 years old
Strenue@reddit
Which ones? Name and shame
JiffyMcPop@reddit
Where I’m at in Portland Maine, every single marina said the same thing and I just posted about it. It’s getting to the point where people don’t wanna haul you out to store you even!
Strenue@reddit
ouch. It hasn't reached down here in St Augustine, FL yet. But if Maine is doing it, then it will spread south as the influence of PE takes over.
JiffyMcPop@reddit
They’ll take you as a transient, just no long term stays and their wait list isn’t really a waitlist. That’s just the general Portland area, I bet you can find a dock to liveaboard not far north but due to Maines geography most of the supermarkets are like 20 minutes away from the coast. Rockland is a great place, in fact the whole mid coast seems decent it’s just rural and cold.
Strenue@reddit
Rural. And cold! Don’t threaten me with a good time!
WTFabs@reddit
Exactly, they should be boycotted
Anstigmat@reddit
Robinhood Marina has a bunch of boats that must be older, though many are in good shape. I'm seeing Nonsuch's and Cape Dorys. I have a small boat so I don't use them, too $$$.
Relevant-Diamond2731@reddit
Not in Florida
JiffyMcPop@reddit
It also has a Volvo penta so good luck
Accomplished_Age_699@reddit
I think I looked that one? New Nanni diesel, but the deck was wet?
sailingtroy@reddit
What stands out to me is that the listing seems "lazy." There's only 1 picture. There should be 12 pictures. The fun of looking at sailboats online is scrolling through the pictures. I need to see that the interior wood is kept up and the engine bay is clean. I want to look at your cockpit and imagine myself in there. Let me peep in that lazarette. What's the bottom like? You've got the pictures in the video, but I only noticed that link the second time I looked at the listing, and most people will not click. Put the pictures in the listing.
The list of equipment doesn't talk about how honey all that canvas is, or that you have two nice anchors with an electric windlass. The boat has air conditioning, a wind vane, and a shower, which are primo features, but you have to scan the list of equipment really carefully to "get it." Write yourself a couple paragraphs.
Oh, and you should varnish your toe rails and hand rails. That stuff really helps.
I find posters in yacht club and marina bathrooms are the best marketing you can do.
OddS0cks@reddit
Crazy how little effort people put in when asking for thousands of dollars. Like take some pics , 1 picture screams everything is broken and rotted and I’m hiding it from you
Mehfisto666@reddit
When i was boat shopping i was flabbergasted by the little effort some ads had. Like if you can't be bothered to clean the boat when trying to find a buyer for thousands of dollars makes me wonder how much care you put into it during general ownership
Masnpip@reddit
Holy, crap, he only has 1 photo? The link is gone now, but I’d 100% assume any boat with 1 photo is a scam.
FreefallGeek@reddit
Im looking for my first sailboat. Ive got other boats but I want to learn to sail and overnight a cabin boat. I wont even look at a listing if it doesnt have pictures of the interior.
1have2much3time@reddit
A listing with only 1 picture just screams ‘scam’ to me. An actual person wanting to sell something like this will take more than a single photo.
sailingtroy@reddit
Yeah, but if you actually click the YouTube link, it looks very legit. It's just kinda tough to notice, somehow.
Dr_Ramekins_MD@reddit
+1, a listing with only one photo isn't going to get me interested enough to inquire. From the buyer's perspective you're wondering if there's some damage or poor condition that the buyer is trying to conceal, and unless it's a specific model I'm looking for and it's right in my local area, I'm not going to spend time traveling to see a boat to find out
East-Transition-8566@reddit
I am a boat buyer, a cash buyer and people are out of their damn minds for what they're asking. Baby boomers are going to learn there isn't another set of baby boomers behind them to sell all their toys to.
Jeffde@reddit
They will just die while owning the boats. It’s their final command.
Miyagidog@reddit
So …..your saying that I should invest in Viking Funerals
feed_me_tecate@reddit
Kids will send the boats to Boat Angel for $1
light24bulbs@reddit
It's bottomed out
behemoth_555@reddit
I bought a 1992 Catalina 28 in Milwaukee for $18.5k within the last 3 months if that's helpful
Strict_Hair_7091@reddit
I have been a yacht broker for more than 30 years now semi retired. What is your tax bracket? I tell ,y clients in similar situation to consider donation/ the tax write off can be generous. Google boat donations making sure it is a legitimate cause.
PracticalConjecture@reddit
A ton of people bought boats in 2020/2021, often paying high prices for them due to the high demand at that time. Now the market has flipped as those same people are selling.
The reality is that there are now fewer buyers than sellers, and that is driving prices down. Way down. Also, most of today's buyers are upgrading into their second or third boat. They're more educated, and know what it costs to fix stuff. As a result, they're picky.
Locally, I'm seeing boats that sold for $30k in 2021 struggling to fetch $10k, and sometimes selling for under $5k. These boats tend to be old and tired. In reality, they were overpriced in 2021, but an enthusiastic and uneducated market bought them up. Now, the market doesn't want them.
Almost anything will sell if priced low enough, but that floor is way lower than many sellers realize.
TheAmicableSnowman@reddit
At every level, it's "pay them to take it."
StatisticalMan@reddit
Older boats are tough. Marina rates are high and a $10k 1987 and a $50k 2000 have the same monthly slip cost. Insurance is nearly the same since the $500k liability requirement drives most of the cost on this end. Fuel and regular maintenance similar. So someone who can afford boating likely can afford the newer boat. Someone who can't afford boating the cheaper boat doesn't help.
The boat looks good condition from the photos it is just a hard market for old boats and not sure what will change with the industry shrinking.
JiffyMcPop@reddit
Marinas have stopped taking monohulls over 25 years old, not completely but that is the trend. Also a 50k 2000 boat doesn’t even make that threshold so I’d just wait until everyone has trouble selling their boats if I wanted to pick one up. Chances are you’ll be living on a mooring or the hook, so choose correctly
StatisticalMan@reddit
Depends on the area. In southern chesapeake moorings are uncommon. Marinas don't really have an issue with older boats like they do in other areas but you must have insurance and some insurance companies won't insure anything that is 40 years old. So that defacto excludes you from marinas and unless it is small enough to be trailerable or you find a private dock you don't have any other options.
hardheadedmonkey@reddit
My marina is full of 30 and 40 year old boats. Come on down to SC. We'll insure just about anything.
jbouit494hg@reddit
It's very difficult to sell a boat right now at any price. There are great boats sitting on the market for ages despite being priced at half what others are asking.
I just bought a boat for $1200 from a guy who bought it for $3000 an entire year ago just to get the transferable moorage.
DaBarenJuden@reddit
Funny enough I’m looking for a similar size boat in NC…I’ll DM you
AppointmentOne4877@reddit
I see his point. Any lower then $11,500 For a 35ft boat would seem suspicious.
Original_Dood@reddit
It's a brutal buyers market. Listing looks fine and so does the boat. If it's not selling it's priced too high, even though I think it's worth what you have it priced at. There's a lot of competition and a lot of old boats for sale. Find a kid in their 20's or early 30's you like and tell them you'd take $5K for it, or give it to them.
Charupa-@reddit
In gulf coast FL I’m seeing pretty fair prices, or at least they have come back down to earth after covid. Also seeing a lot more junkers and project boats at very cheap prices.
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
I got the asking price for my last boat in about 3 months.