Sandwiched
Posted by DonnesIsland@reddit | GenX | View on Reddit | 47 comments
My mom was just dx’d with Alzheimer’s. Refuses to do her will or medical directive, despite years of pleading & actual meetings with attorneys. Some weird combination of denial & procrastination (“next year!”). So we’ll likely need to spend thousands out of pocket, just to get POA to facilitate care.
And it won’t be clear when she’ll get to needing care/what level bc we live out of state & god forbid she move. Eventually, whatever’s left will be hung up in probate for years.
I’m working 50 hrs a week & my kid has special needs & needs 1:1 support. Siblings also have demanding jobs & families. I’m well equipped to manage care, bc I can fucking handle anything by now but… I’m already so tired. And she’s made this 1000x more complicated & expensive. So fucking selfish & negligent of her.
Thanks. Just needed to vent.
arianrhodd@reddit
How is she, really? You can have her placed in a conservatorship or committed (laws/processes will depend on your state) if her state is bad enough you can demonstrate to a judge she cannot make decisions for herself.
EverythingScrolling@reddit
I'm so sorry. We don't have an official diagnosis yet, but my dad has memory issues and both he and my mom refuse to any sort of planning.
The r/agingparents sub has a lot of good advice and resources. It helps knowing there are others going through similar situations.
Rawksucker@reddit
We got the single best bit of advice from a VA nurse, which was to get the POA, med and financial, before dx. Once they are diagnosed it's (from my understanding) arguable that they cannot sign these over bc of the mental capacity issues. It sucks 100% because it's one of those 'best ways to crash the plane' (thank you Jen Gunter) situations and no guidebooks. Everything creeps along and then suddenly it's critical that you have the POA. My mom was on board, but we phrased it as "handing some things off to the kids," which somehow worked - my dad had been very, very paranoid. I'm sorry you have this on your plate; it is one of the worst things.
Finding_Way_@reddit
One possible option:
You can make a referral to Adult Protective Services in her county. You can let them know that she has refused your help in terms of getting a healthcare power of attorney or general power of attorney. This will have her on the state's radar and if she really is problematic about you stepping in, they will have to make arrangements to have her found incompetent when needed
This is a less than ideal solution and will likely make her very angry, but at the same time you can't be put in the position of having to try and direct her care when she will not meet you even one quarter of the way to get things in place.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
buckyVanBuren@reddit
I can tell you getting the state involved is a nightmare in it's own way. You will lose all control.
Be careful of the Devil you choose.
Finding_Way_@reddit
I agree with the statements here. And I'm the one that mentioned making a referral to adult protective services.
As with anything, it depends on many factors, including the state. For one cousin, referring our aunt allowed the state to seek guardianship when they found her living in squalor and unable to make decisions. In that state, the next of kin ( spouse, then parents, then siblings, and on down the line) is contacted for the competency hearing and considered for guardianship. If the person is found incompetent, then the state/judge chooses. They chose my cousin. Our aunt wouldn't let anyone help her so we were all glad that my cousin was appointed and it worked out fine. (But, of course it could have gone very differently!)
In another situation I know of, an adult child "released" care to the state. The state then did require that everything be sold and made other decisions. The adult child did not object because it had been a nightmare for them trying to deal with their parent and they were, frankly, glad not to be the point person any longer. There are other parent had passed away, and they had no siblings. They were drowning trying to keep their parent safe from a distance and had no POA. They had no issues ultimately forfeiting the state. They just wanted their parents safe, and they wanted peace of mind as their own health was starting to be impacted by the stress of it all and they truly we're worried that they would have a stroke and leave their own kids without a parent!
But I think as warned, look into ALL options. Making an adult protective services call might be the best / only when a parent lives far, and is starting to endanger themselves by refusing care.
buckyVanBuren@reddit
Very balanced look at some of the possibilities.
Like most things in life, things are rarely black and white.
My mom's case was not handled well, something I have to take my share of responsibility for. And it is difficult for the government to handle things with finesse.
So, the best advice is to not get in this situation. But if you do, just be aware of the complications that your choices may generated. Sometimes those complications may be the only solution.
Bibliophilewitch@reddit
Yup, they will take everything for the absolute minimal care 😩
jellitate@reddit
I’m glad I saw this because i thought this would be a good option😳
buckyVanBuren@reddit
It still might be an option. But it is one you should be fully aware of before choosing it.
darkest_irish_lass@reddit
As far as estates go, it usually is pretty cut and dried. Creditors first, then surviving spouses. Next are her children. If there are no children, sisters and brothers next and on down the line.
2bop2pie@reddit
I refuse to care more about their health, their living situation and their stuff than they do.
Vixen-van@reddit
Dx’d. You are old enough to remember full words.
Miaj_Pensoj@reddit
Are you ok? Do you need help dealing with the complexities of life?
Massive-Insect-sting@reddit
And you're old enough not to be a bitch
NightGod@reddit
STFU
Mental-Artist-6157@reddit
OP has a special needs youngin so he/she is fluent in behavioral health acronyms. He/she also mentioned being "equipped to manage care" for the parent even at a distance. OP is in health of some sort.
Southern-Occasion-41@reddit
My 81 year old dad is in great health...no will or directive whatsoever. We bring it up and he just nods and says you're right then nothing.
Miaj_Pensoj@reddit
Will reverse psychology work? Mention to him that if he doesn’t make plans then the state will take all his assets and piss through them before leaving crumbs for his descendants.
VanillaHuel@reddit
Can you get all the paperwork ready and then bring it out quickly the next time he agrees and say Ok then let's just sign these and get it over with? 🤔
PhinaCat@reddit
We got my mom to go along with all the paperwork by talking about what someone she admires had. Janie has her sister, you need someone too. How about me, we can get this done at the hospital for FREE. She responded to social situations for a long time after her ability to see the bigger picture failed her.
ddm00767@reddit
Wait what did you get for free at hospital?
PhinaCat@reddit
They had a free notary service where I was able to get fiscal POA and healthcare directives done
DrgSlinger475@reddit
Are you thinking of a living will? That’s usually the only thing you might complete at the hospital for free. That document lets patients express their wishes regarding their healthcare, including if any lifesaving treatments should be given or withheld, should they become incapacitated. It does not replace a Will, a trust, or anything else that would affect assets.
Bibliophilewitch@reddit
Please also consider how afraid of this your mother might be. Moving can be traumatic at any age, let alone when your brain is betraying you. Sending you both some virtual hugs.
RogerClyneIsAGod2@reddit
Moving her now, before the dementia really sets in, is better than moving her later.
Bibliophilewitch@reddit
I don’t agree. You can’t force an adult to do this. Forcing her now will set the move up for failure but she won’t even remember why she feels such animosity, only that she does.
bluesunlion@reddit
You may find the Agingparents sub really helpful. I did. Even if it's just to help you feel like you're not the only one going through it, but it's also awesome for specific advice.
Sudden-Damage-5840@reddit
I would wash my hands if this. I did with my Mom. You can do it all on your own. I am not helping.
S1159P@reddit
Yes. Me too. I'm trying to manage my mother's medical care, daily care, and finances back East, while I am trying to do college tours with my medically-complicated teen on the West coast. I too am tired. I see you.
Happy-Bluejay-3849@reddit
Look to see if a college near you has a dementia or elder care center. My parents wouldn’t listen to us, but going and listening to experts convinced them to act. The people at the center were so nice and had tons of resources and gave us referrals to other community services tailored to my parent’s needs. The consultations were free.
They can also refer you to respite care services. The center had lists of pre-screened contractors and services your parents can use to stay independent in their home. Don’t burn yourself out.
SarahJaneB17@reddit
The local Alzheimer's association might have resources too. That's who I contacted when my dad was diagnosed.
BarRegular2684@reddit
My dad was diagnosed about a year ago. He hasn’t deteriorated too much. I’m not sure what medication they’ve given him but it seems to be effective.
Fortunately he and my late mom took care of their end of life stuff decades ago. My sister lives in the area and handles everything for him. He still lives on his own but they did have to disconnect the stove.
I’m so sorry.
P_Fossil@reddit
I had a relative who refused to do this stuff for years, and what finally brought them over was taking the tack that “if you don’t do it, then the Lawyers™️ and the State™️ will get everything after you go.”
This angle works better on certain types of personality than others, but I’m throwing it out there in case it might be helpful for you or anyone else on this thread.
elphaba00@reddit
My parents are 73 and 74. They're in okay shape, but no wills, no funeral or burial planning, no sharing of info, etc. My mom mentioned that maybe they'll talk to someone about a trust, but she's putting it all on my dad, who is completely non-communicative about any of this. I'm tired of, "You're an only child; you'll get everything."
I'm not angling for an inheritance. I've never taken advantage of them. The most I've ever asked for from them is a loan for $1000, which got turned down. I then got a lecture on standing on my own two feet and living within my means. Sorry, Mom, for getting laid off and then being unemployed. I've never asked for anything again.
Massive-Insect-sting@reddit
Sorry to hear this. My inlaws went through this. Wife had early onset and the husband didn't, but everything was in both their names and it was an AND and not an OR so both signatures needed for everything and towards the end it was impossible to even get her to sign anything even if she wanted, and even if she did sign people contested it because of her mental state.
It was a nightmare.
DrgSlinger475@reddit
Direct logic often doesn’t work with dementia, neither does strong-arming them. Remember that they’re still an adult who is used to making their own decisions.
You can try telling her the story of what’s happening as if it was someone else’s family and see if she agrees with your point of view. You can turn that into “I’m so glad you scheduled an appointment with your lawyer! It’s almost time for our meeting, let’s go.”
It takes some planning to set up the appointment and the conversation, but it’s absolutely doable. The main thing is that she feels like she’s made a choice rather than being forced to do something.
HemlockGrv@reddit
Strongly agree with this. My mom had Alzheimer's and there was no processing or acceptance of logic. This is not a time for strong-arming, as some are suggesting, it will backfire. Whether the family feels it or not, a show of compassion and patience are key. This tactic "I'm so glad you scheduled an appointment with your lawyer..." is a really good plan. Whether it brings to question whether she's of "sound mind" for signing legal documents is likely something the attorney can address.
I would also suggest that when she was refusing to attend to these details, it's entirely possible that dementia processes had already begun to take place. Changes in the brain are often happening for years before it's noticeable to the person themself or to others. Similar to mental illness, after there's a break with stability, people reflect back and see that some signs or behaviors were present in the past. All that said, I wish you and your family well, OP.
martin@reddit
Hire an estate+eldercare lawyer for her, get her to agree to that "so we don't have to think about it". she clearly doesn't want to. but a lawyer will set timelines, ask questions, fill and file. it helps both of you and is much easier when someone else (not family) is driving the process.
JellyfishWoman@reddit
I had the opposite experience. I had to move my dad into a nursing home because he needed specialized care after spinal surgery left him partially paralyzed. I am an only child and my dad was single after my step mother had died. He has a will, durable power of attorney so I could sign for him etc. The nursing home screwed up his Medicaid application (and others) so badly the first 8 months of his stay were not covered.
I went to an elder law attorney and they refused to help me unless I would include a will and POA in the contract. I refused, provided copies of the documents he already had, explained that I was his only relative anyway and explained that my dad had been renting an apartment so had no real assets anyway. I only want them to help with the nursing home, Medicaid and VA issues. Nope! The entire package or nothing, as you can imagine those extras were thousands of dollars tacked into the contract.
I just did the forms myself and reported the corporate nursing home to the state board.
HouseofMoops@reddit
Watching this thread with interest. I’m in a similar situation with a mother in mental decline and far away. I set her up with attorneys as well but her asshole husband blocked the entire process and forbid her from talking to me anymore. He’ll eventually drop dead and she’ll be alone and incapacitated.
ApplicationUpper9229@reddit
Ugh.
This is why my wife and I have a will, and we’ve pre-paid our funeral arrangements, and made sure the kids know where all the paperwork is.
-_VoidVoyager_-@reddit
It’s her life
jellitate@reddit
My daughter in law is dealing with this now and it is so selfish and awful of her parent to continue to operate as though nothing is wrong! This person lost their job of 32 years by trying to cover up the fact that they were in decline! Their spouse left because for years this person denied anything was wrong and blamed their spouse!! It is selfish and awful and even though this is the absolute wrong thing to do and if it happened to me I’d daydream about leaving that parent to their own devices and going no contact. OP I wish you well and I really hope you and your siblings can talk your hard headed mom into doing the right thing no matter how afraid she may be.
Dobgirl@reddit
I’m here too. Parents and children needing lots of attention. Don’t forget that we’re also supposed to work out, have a hobby, excel in our careers and be charitable. 😒it’s exhausting
Drachenfuer@reddit
It needs to be done NOW. Not tomorrow. She won’t have legal capacity to be able to do those documents as the illness takes her. I see this literally every day. Everyone waits until they need the POA and by then it is too late to do one. Only option then is guardianship (to be able to do what you need to do) and that is a MUCH more expensive and harder road.
Sit her down and find out what is really holding her back. She can’t decide amongst her children, she didn’t feel comfortable with the lawyers, she doesn’t want to give up control (in that case, talk to the lawyer about a springing power of attorney) and get her past the hurdle or you are in for a world of hurt and stress later.
Neener216@reddit
Sending you a tremendous hug - it's such a heavy load you're carrying. Being the meat in the sandwich is exhausting enough when everyone is on board with a plan; the fact that your mother is in denial makes it so much more complicated.
If she listens to one of your siblings more than the others, it might help to have that sibling lay down the law if possible.