Finally, Wes is useful

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species8472@reddit

Laws include a punishment for breaking them. There's no way to punish him.

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Shiny_Agumon@reddit

This, there's no way for Picard or the Federation to do anything to Kevin that he doesn't want to so just leaving him be with his own conscience is the best way to handle this situation.

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Significant_Pear_523@reddit

I wouldn't say I completely agree with this for a couple reasons.

First, some laws do exist with no enforcement mechanisms. It's not ideal, but it does happen. In the United States, there have been constitutional clauses that at times have had no way to enforce them.

Secondly, the law is sometimes used to indict and even convict people even when there is no way to punish them. For example, this would include jurisdictions and laws that allow parties to be tried in absentia.

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species8472@reddit

I'm pretty sure that homicide/genocide would not fall in the category of laws with no enforcement mechanisms.

Trying someone in absentia only serves one of two purposes, either it makes the person a criminal so if they are eventually found, they can be taken into custody immediately. Or it's done symbolically because they are already dead or in prison.

Kevin is immortal and good luck keeping him in prison if he decides he doesn't want to be there.

Bottom line, Picard's point was that the Federation didn't have laws that took into account situations like that.

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Significant_Pear_523@reddit

As with above (and with Picard), I agree with the conclusion but not the rationale to get there.

Here is the real world problem with not trying to prosecute Kevin (if there had been more evidence of his crime). Let's say in the 21st century, the leader of a hegemonic power committed genocide. We all accept that no country, no alliance, and no international tribunal has the coercive power to detain our hegemonic leader. There is still a good case for attempting to prosecute him. Among other reasons, it's possible that there could one day be the means to detain the hegemonic leader.

So likewise, maybe there would one day be enough evidence and enough power to actually prosecute Kevin. Genocide is simply too egregious to just let it go.

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Mediocre-Cobbler5744@reddit

Convicted in absentia is essentially exile which has been used as punishment for... ever, I guess.

I thought about arguing the first point, just because but all my arguments are semantic and pedantic.

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galaxyclassbricks@reddit

My take was that Uxbridge just wiped them from existence. No murder, just straight up wiped from the history books, and how do you put someone on trial for killing a race that never existed?

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Solonotix@reddit

Crimes are also relative to the being that committed them. If you step on an ant, are you guilty of murder? Because this guy was so far beyond what we mere mortals can conceive of, we literally have no way of measuring the degree of wrong or what an appropriate punishment might be.

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Kamin_of_Kataan@reddit

If they never existed, than his planet would still be populated

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galaxyclassbricks@reddit

Fair enough. My headcanon is that the Daud’s powers are limited (which fits what we see on screen) and Kevin could only wipe out the Husnock and evidence of their existence and culture (buildings, art, ships, etc). Evidence on their effects on the galaxy (destroying the colony) would be outside the Daud’s powers, since it really would be bringing people back from the dead instead of just an illusion.

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Sasquatch1729@reddit

Yeah, I think of it the exact same way. I like to imagine that Starfleet had already had some fights with Husnock scouts and all memories of the fights were erased. Any crew who died would be remembered as having died because of accidents or in crazy circumstances.

For example, Jeremy Astor's mother might have died in a firefight with the Husnock, but the Douwd power reconstructed reality to erase even the memory of the battle. (The episodes are out of order for this to actually work, but it sort of captures how I see this: not even a memory or any evidence of them is left).

A lot of empty worlds in the former Husnock empire would show evidence of intelligent life (domesticated animals, genetically modified crops, pollution and toxic waste, etc) but the cities, infrastructure, etc would be gone. Formerly enslaved species would not remember the Husnock and would imagine they were enslaved by a brutal dictator of their own species/history.

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TrexPushupBra@reddit

Perhaps he didn't want to punish anyone else whose history would have been changed.

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mfhandy5319@reddit

Except in some of the books races are searching for husnak technology So Uxbridge just removed the race, the species, leaving all their construction, and tech intact.

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afriendincanada@reddit

I wonder if he remembered to edit Memory Alpha?

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rip_cut_trapkun@reddit

Many a soul vanished trying to curate the Husnock page.

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SOTG_Duncan_Idaho@reddit

This was always my take too, since they are treated as a complete unknown outside of Kevin saying they existed.

Makes this statement by Picard make sense too.

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galaxyclassbricks@reddit

Totes. Bev and Jean don’t react to the name Husnock, not even in confusion. I feel like they’d have shown something beyond a stone face, even in that moment.

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TemperatureTime1617@reddit

Where was this guy all during the Borg mess?

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TheNathan@reddit

I love the delivery of this line but it does fall apart almost immediately lol

my idea of what Picard is thinking in the moment is:

“I want to deliver a scathing admonition but for the love of all that is the federation we cannot piss this thing off lest it wipe out everyone, better just leave it be and let its guilt be the punishment.”

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TigerIll6480@reddit

Exactly. Uxbridge was torturing himself. There was zilch the Federation could do to him, unless Picard yelled for Q and Q decided to answer. Then…I doubt anyone would want to be within several light-years of that situation.

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Calm_Ad308@reddit

“Uh yeah I’m aware, who do think snapped the Husnock from existence? Him??? Please Mon Capitaine, you think the Q would allow another set of beings to go bounding around the cosmos wiping species from space and time? You think your the only species the Q is testing?”

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PromisesNone@reddit

Now I wish picard had tried it.

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QA_Confidential@reddit

Not without popcorn, anyway.

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EidolonRook@reddit

Very much this.

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OlYeller01@reddit

I used to HATE this episode. I hated the Uxbridges, I REALLY hated the music box, and I thought “no law to fit your crime” was incredibly dumb. It was an instant skip every time. In the past I would rather have watched Code of Honor.

Greatest Gen changed all that for me. Now I can’t help but wonder what Husnock tastes like.

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Jon_Luck_Pickerd@reddit

You can't just prove the outcome of a crime to get a conviction. You also have to provide with what means it was accomplished. There's no possible way to prove how he committed this genocide, so Picard's right. We have no law that would convict him.

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Significant_Pear_523@reddit

TL;DR: I agree with you but perhaps got there a different way.

I didn't want to agree with this at first, but it does make some sense. There is a law to punish Kevin Uxbridge, and it's the law against genocide. So Picard isn't entirely correct. But crimes do require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. We have Kevin's confession, which is strong evidence. We also have evidence consistent with his story, such as the missing colony and his impressive power.

That said, without at least some evidence of the existence and subsequent nonexistence of the Husnock, it's just as possible that Uxbridge is a crazy man making up a wild story. The result is likely ultimately the same from a non-technical perspective: there is no way to convict and punish Kevin.

Still, I think if I'm Picard, I would think the most responsible act would be to ask Uxbridge if he would voluntarily agree to confinement and to undergoing legal process and psychological evaluation. If Kevin is as moral as he claims, he may actually agree to this.

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Mediocre-Cobbler5744@reddit

Even assuming he has the power, he might still not be trustworthy. Q makes up stuff all the time.

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Emdub81@reddit

Where are you getting your legal theory from, because that's not true in any court I've heard of?

Proving how is clearly one component of gaining a conviction, but it absolutely is not required.

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Jon_Luck_Pickerd@reddit

Maybe you're right, but I know you absolutely need more evidence than a confession and there was no evidence tying him to the crime itself. There was only evidence of the outcome.

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Emdub81@reddit

The actual theory is that there needs to be proof of the crime actually occurred. Once that's established, the confession really only faces a credibility test.

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Jon_Luck_Pickerd@reddit

I think the other layer to this is that we are talking about future theories of law that are much less primitive than what we have now. The standard is surely higher and that's why they had no law that fit his crime.

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RadVarken@reddit

The only evidence of a crime here is his confession. You need more than that. You need a body.

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Emdub81@reddit

The actual theory is that you need to be able to prove the crime actually happened. Corpus dilecti (which means body of the crime, but its not a literal body).

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Comfortable-Dish1236@reddit

All I recall is that Uxbridge said that he killed all Husnock. Everywhere. I don’t recall hearing anything about wiping them from all existence or memory. Just because no one had ever heard of the Husnock before doesn’t mean they were known and he wiped their entire existence from the memory of every sentient creature in the galaxy.

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LithoSlam@reddit

The federation doesn't have a law against genocide

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Terrorbaston@reddit

It was a nice way to say don’t erase my entire race because we judged a cosmic entity and have no way to enforce a punishment. Because he erased a entire race with a thought

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Scavgraphics@reddit

They also have no jurisdiction.

But it's a fabulous episode.

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Mass-Effect-6932@reddit

A little history on Kevin.

When the planet was attacked by an aggressive, destructive species called the Husnock, he refused to join the fight in accordance with his species' pacifism. His wife Rishon, however, died defending the colony. Stricken with grief, Kevin lashed out with his vast powers and wiped out the entire Husnock species—over 50 billion.

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SOTG_Duncan_Idaho@reddit

Kevin didn't just kill them, he wiped them from existence both in the present and in the past. Just like he conjures up his wife and his house from nothing, and a ship from nothing. And its why the Enterprise crew have no odea who the hell they are.

Kevin demonstrated control over the fabric of reality similar to the Q.

The Federation doesn't have a law covering "these people were made to have never actually existed".

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James_Solomon@reddit

The Federation doesn't have a law covering "these people were made to have never actually existed".

The Departmemt of Temporal Investigations wouls like a word

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SOTG_Duncan_Idaho@reddit

Erased from reality means even time travel would not reveal anything changed.

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KaleidoscopeExpert93@reddit

Its called xenocide, alienicide, ETicide

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Unfair_Pineapple8813@reddit

The only thing I don’t understand about this episode is why Kevin afflicted Troi so badly. I get he didn’t want her Betazoiding his mind. But he wanted to make Enterprise leave. One reason they stuck around and asked so many questions is because Troi was attacked and was dying. If she was no worse for wear, would they have been so motivated to get to the bottom of the mystery?

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Artemus_Hackwell@reddit

Genocide would be if he only wiped out every 10th Husnock.

Here he obliterated them entirely

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bela_okmyx@reddit

Wiping out every 10th Husnock would be decimation.

Genocide would be killing them all.

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Artemus_Hackwell@reddit

That's correct, I was thinking of decimation, my mistake.

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66Hslackerpro@reddit

So he says. We have no proof of Any of this. Maybe he’s just insane

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General-Reserve9349@reddit

Well let you go / run away, run away…

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DarwinGoneWild@reddit

I mean, Picard is kinda right. Can you prosecute someone for thinking a race out of existence? What evidence could you possibly use aside from his word? If a guy went to the police and claimed he wiped a city’s entire inhabitants off the map, would he actually be charged?

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