What's the Best IFR Advice You've Ever Received?
Posted by Foreigntecch23@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 85 comments
IFR pilots / CFII’s — what was the ONE IFR tip or explanation that completely changed the game for you?
I’m talking about that thing that didn’t make sense for the longest time… then someone explained it a certain way and suddenly it CLICKED. The lightbulb moment.
Could be:
- scan technique
- holding
- briefing approaches
- staying ahead of the airplane
- altitude management
- workload management
- G1000 setup
- avionics flow
- trim/pitch/power concepts
- approach setup
- mental models
- anything
For me right now, one thing I’m struggling with is occasionally stepping below a restricted altitude and also staying consistent with pitch + power settings. Sometimes I feel like I’m reacting instead of staying ahead.
For the G1000 crowd:
What setup/workflow/features helped you the most in IFR training? Any habits that reduced workload or made situational awareness easier?
Also:
What’s something you specifically practiced with your instructor that REALLY sharpened your IFR skills?
Trying to build a thread full of those “wish I knew this sooner” IFR lessons for instrument students.
LaLaPooPoop@reddit
Set the missed approach altitude once established on LOC/GS.
Never use activate approach, once cleared for an approach just arm it using APR on AP.
Brief everything necessary, you should know runway lengths and alternate information before getting in the air, you’ll get behind the airplane really quickly.
Learn to load holds and understand them, whether they’re timed or distance.
deezknots78@reddit
Best advice? Stay current. Go out and do it. It’s a perishable skill.
persevering_one@reddit
For G1000 training, I enjoyed using the simionic apps with 2 tablets to practice ifr training at home. It also helped me learn the avionics and auto pilot really well
Foreigntecch23@reddit (OP)
How did you learn to use it? Is there a tutorial somewhere because I bought it for my iPad and couldn’t get used to it
jseasbiscuit@reddit
I think what made it click in my mind was actually seeing and understanding how ifr works takeoff to landing, and understanding every comm and clearance is pre scripted. It's easy to forget this when you're bombing around doing a bunch of approaches and at first I certainly missed the forest for the trees. Obviously not all phases apply to light pistons (you're never going above FL180) but even so, understanding how big jets operate in the ifr environment will help your overall understanding. Here's what I mean: -Initial clearance is always the same format. I'm not going into a full breakdown but it's easy enough to understand -departure: Understanding how SIDs work even if you're not flying them. The point is to get you from the runway to join the enroute structure. -Arrival: again having a general understanding of STARs even if you're not flying them. The point is to get you from the enroute to the terminal environment, and to put you in a position to intercept an approach. -approaches: Obviously how to fly them, but more importantly knowing how exactly you plan to fly. Vectors? IAF? From which direction? You can brief this all ahead of time which will help your mental model.
Going along with that is understanding what type of controller you're working with.
At the end of the day there's generally very few surprises when flying ifr point to point because that's how it's supposed to be. If you can understand where you are in the overall structure, you can anticipate what's next and stay ahead of the plane.
To be successful in IFR training you'll always need to be a few steps ahead of the aircraft, understand what's coming next, and have the plane configured for those changes as far ahead as you can. This includes AP and mode configuration changes. Hopefully by this point you have the stick and rudder skills, so chair flying is essential and extremely valuable. I would routinely talk though an entire flight including comms, when I would tune a navaid, when I would dial in a new course, when I would change modes on the AP/FD, etc.
Foreigntecch23@reddit (OP)
After all the sensory overload in training, this mental model is starting to come together in my head and when you look at it from a birds eye view, it makes sense and it removes that sense of overwhelm you feel in the beginning so I agree this is good stuff
WuhOHStinkyOH@reddit
Keeping the desired track and actual track on the gps within 5 degrees when on the final approach segment.
SeaSDOptimist@reddit
If you want to line up with the parallel… otherwise, go for 1 or 0.
Nnumber@reddit
This guy 430’s.
nellonthemellon@reddit
430 supremacy
pi_stuff@reddit
G1000: VNAV is for before the FAF, APR is for after. Also, think of the APR button as the glide slope button. Without that, the flight director will not follow the glide slope/glidepath.
abcd4321dcba@reddit
Happened to me the other day. Threw off the whole approach and the missed after I accidentally hit AP and was so busy hand flying I couldn’t get shit back in line with the automation. Flew another practice approach ILS after that and REMEMBERED REAL GOOD.
Foreigntecch23@reddit (OP)
My G1000 doesn’t have the AP so I haven’t tapped into these features
Pilot-Imperialis@reddit
Workload management. In essence, I found I was being distracted by only knowing the basics of operating my gps (at the time a Garmin 430W). Decided to drop $200 on a ground course just on that gps unit and really learned it inside out. Suddenly I had way more mental real estate to work with, as I could operate the gps without thinking about it.
abcd4321dcba@reddit
This. Especially if you’re flying something with more capable automation. Been flying a Cirrus for 100 hours now after a 172 and I’m constantly finding new ways to make life easier than it already is.
Odd_Entertainment471@reddit
That the throttle is your friend. Slow everything down by throttling back. Slow to about 90 knots as you near the high workload areas and give yourself time.
Also, the clearance to the approach is always scripted. Has to be by law. It follows PTAC (Position, turn, altitude, clearance onto the approach). Position “you are 5 miles south of XXYYY), Turn “turn to a heading of ZZ to intercept the final approach course”, Altitude “descend and maintain x,xxx until established on the final approach course”, Clearance “Cleared for the ILS/GPS/VOR runway 31”. That call made me break out in sweats until I saw Dan’s awesome video.
Foreigntecch23@reddit (OP)
This is helpful. Because my comms could use work
randombrain@reddit
Also note that a lot of the PTAC is old and outdated fluff, particularly if you have GPS. And you don't need to focus on reading back the whole thing, or even necessarily comprehending the whole thing. The heading and the altitude are the two majorly important elements there.
The PTAC might be "Six miles from FFIXX, turn left heading 170, maintain 2200 until established on the localizer, cleared ILS Runway 14 approach." Your readback can be as simple as "two thousand two hundred, one-seventy, cleared approach, N345." That's it.
The really really important thing is that you begin the turn to the assigned heading as soon as the controller says it—before you read it back, in fact before the controller even finishes the rest of the PTAC. We're expecting you to start that turn ASAP in order to make a legal intercept without going across the localizer. In fact you might get a TPAC instead if the controller is a little late with the clearance.
LoungeFlyZ@reddit
The lateness of the call bugs me. Is there a reason you all don’t give it to us 30 seconds earlier?
randombrain@reddit
We have to vector you to intercept final at a relatively shallow angle and no closer than a certain distance from the FAF. If we issue the vector too early you're going to intercept within that distance and it isn't a legal approach. So there's a relatively narrow window where we can issue the heading in the first place.
Issuing a turn to final is one of the highest-priority actions we have, just because of that tight window, but it isn't the highest priority. Like if there's a traffic situation that needs to be fixed/called, for example.
Also sometimes a new aircraft will check on and tie up the frequency right when we're about to issue the turn, that's always frustrating.
And sometimes we just get distracted doing something else lower-priority and forget to come back to you in time. Not every airport has a dedicated "turn to final" controller; sometimes we're working departures and overflights for several other airports as well.
abcd4321dcba@reddit
This is helpful!
Heliwomper@reddit
Can you point us in the direction of Dan's video?
ilovesailingosrs@reddit
Who's dan?
Scoot814@reddit
Dan Bilzerian
FlyBR@reddit
Trim.
Spend 1 more brain-bite on trim and you’ll get 100 more brain-bites for everything else. Remember you’re trimming for AIRSPEED changes not altitude deviations. Every power/pitch change should be followed up with by trim.
SomeDude2104@reddit
Can you elaborate on what you mean by trimming for airspeed instead of altitude? Once you’re established in cruise if you just trim for airspeed then altitude will remain consistent? I assume this only works in smooth air
phaederus@reddit
You trim for stability. Once you're stable and well trimmed, even if speed or altitude might vary slightly in cruise, the plane will naturally oscillate back to stable flight.
FlyBR@reddit
If you want to get more precise, trim for changes in AOA. I.e. a faster aircraft will be at a lower AOA than a slower aircraft all else being equal.
Stability is a function of aircraft design.
FlyBR@reddit
Cruise is the least task saturating part of the flight and I rarely see issues during that phase.
It’s in the terminal area where task saturation causes trim to fall out of their habit patterns. They end up chasing altitude and airspeed with trim instead of delivers you setting it due to their airspeed. Examples like having to slow to your holding speed while figuring out your holding entry, ATC gives you a speed restriction while getting vectors to final, or speed changes during a procedure turn that results in poor trimming habits and getting farther behind the aircraft.
phaederus@reddit
I guess you're referring to that; because my first thought was also - that's a trim issue - seems more like basic airmanship than IFR specific to me..
If you're well trimmed minor altitude changes won't matter, you'll be in a stable oscillation.
DuelingPushkin@reddit
And configuration changes. Different aircraft have different pit hing moments that are generated by flap and slat configurations. But you should learn what your craft does and proactively trim to address it each time you deploy them or retract them.
Zalamb1500@reddit
“Always keep the scan going”
Best advice I learned over my training. Always keep cross checking
AlexJamesFitz@reddit
Understand how the NAS works and how your puzzle piece fits into the broader picture.
Foreigntecch23@reddit (OP)
Example? Do you have a scenario?
AlexJamesFitz@reddit
Probably one good example of this is active listening on freq, so you can build a mental image of how the controller is working you in with other traffic and why.
Kemerd@reddit
Here’s my one tip, and I didn’t realize people don’t do this until I went into Reddit.
Almost all bad IFR performance can be fixed by a better scan and not over fixating.
To solve this, imagine each button press, each glance at another screen, has a “cost.” That cost is, glancing at your instruments (easier with tape obviously).
The result is you should, for instance, let’s say you want to go direct to KSMF:
> On instruments
> Glance to nav, tap Direct
> On instruments
> Type K
> On instruments
> Type S
> On instruments
> Type M
> On instruments
> Type F
> On instruments
> Hit activate
> On instruments
This applies for frequencies, adjusting or looking at anything that isn’t the instrument. The cost of performing that not-looking-at-instruments is; you guessed it. Looking at your instruments.
Once I did this, IFR became much easier. Sometimes, I’ll even GLANCE to see where my finger should go, go back to instruments, then go back to the button.
The result is, it will be impossible to fixate. But everything will suddenly be easier. It will feel SILLY at first but if you do it religiously you will suddenly find IFR much easier.
Foreigntecch23@reddit (OP)
Going to try this
I’ve had to find where to put my damn iPad because if I have it on my lap the headwind time the plane goes down too
Great tip!
draggingmytail@reddit
I’m going to try the cost method. I’ve noticed that every time I do any minor thing involving buttons, by the time I look back at my HSI, I am off course and have lost 50 feet of altitude.
spacecadet2399@reddit
The biggest piece of advice that changed the game for me was "just do what they tell you to do".
So much of early IFR training really focuses on lost comms. But that's not usually made clear, so a lot of students worry about stuff they don't really need to worry about day-to-day. It's a checkride/emergency thing, but is doesn't need to be something you obsess about while you're trying to learn how to actually fly IFR. It's kind of like obsessing about emergency off-airport landings during PPL when you still haven't even mastered straight and level flight.
You even see it in questions being asked here; a lot of "what do you do in such and such situation...?" What you do is what ATC tells you to do and/or what the chart/plate you're looking at says (in the event you get "descend via" or whatever). You only need to worry about what to do on your own in lost comms.
The second piece of advice that was almost as important, and this might help you, was to forget about what you learned in PPL about using pitch for airspeed, power for altitude and do the opposite in IFR. Those actions in PPL are taught for safety; pitching for airspeed and powering for altitude keeps you out of a stall. But they're very slow and inaccurate at maintaining or changing your flight path.
And that's not really what you want when you're attempting to maintain an assigned altitude or an ILS at a constant airspeed. Obviously pitch and power are interactive but in IFR, your primary control for pitch is the yoke/stick, and your primary control for airspeed is throttle. It's going to be that way forever from now on. You will need to use both to get what you want out of the airplane, of course, but which you do first and concentrate on most for a given correction matters. If you're a dot high (and increasing) on a glideslope, you're not reducing power and then waiting. You're pitching down to adjust your glidepath, then knowing that will increase your airspeed, reducing the throttle so that increase doesn't happen. Once nearly back on glideslope, you're pitching up slightly to maintain the glideslope (anticipating the slight delay), then knowing that will reduce your airspeed, increasing throttle slightly so airspeed stays constant.
If you learned the opposite way in PPL (as I did), forget that and do the opposite now. You should be advanced enough to do it.
Foreigntecch23@reddit (OP)
Yeah in PPL it was pitch for airspeed power for altitude. Law of primacy, it’s what was ingrained in me. What you just described is the new sight picture for instruments and I quickly forget that change and I’m all over with these settings. But this actually helped thanks for the clarity.
mambosan@reddit
If you have a TAA, spend the time to intricately know your avionics/AP and verify it will do what you want it to do (check the modes that are active/armed). The AP can be an awesome task management tool if you use it right, and a nightmare if you don’t
Any-Rooster-4881@reddit
Under IFR, When departing Class D into B, and cleared by Tower for switching from tower to Departure freq, always know your expected on course heading as Departure/ATC may clear you DIRECT to destination
TonyGoodTimes019@reddit
Request delayed vectors.
Pizzicati@reddit
Remember 3 things: 1. Heading 2. Heading 3. Heading.
kev6261337@reddit
Something I haven’t seen mentioned here and that wasn’t taught to me is departure alternates. If you have trouble after departing into IMC, you need to know what airport/runway/approach you’re going to use to get back on the ground. If you’re departing into IMC, you should know this before you leave the ground.
Not only should you know it, you should have it programmed in as your final waypoint in your flight plan. That way, if you run into trouble, all you need to do is activate the approach and you’re ready to go. If that approach is an ILS, tune up the LOC so all you need is the CDI button.
Silly_Valuable_1750@reddit
This should be part of your emergency briefing when launching into IMC.
AdhesivenessSea3838@reddit
Aviate, navigate, communicate
Stay ahead of the airplane
Public-Reaction732@reddit
Ditch the glass and develop scan skills that will be your foundation through any equipment you later use. Too many Glass cripples out there.
Progwonk@reddit
When starting out, develop your scan by flying in slow flight.
Foreigntecch23@reddit (OP)
That actually makes a ton of sense and I never thought about using slow flight that way.
So basically the airplane becomes less forgiving, which forces you to tighten up your scan and control inputs?
Did you practice this under the hood too or mostly VFR? And was there anything specific you focused on scanning first that helped it finally “click”?
noideawhatsupp@reddit
Sims are amazing for that as well..
Progwonk@reddit
Under the hood with my CFI. Just practice, no substitute.
SavingsPirate4495@reddit
If you’re doing nothing, you should probably be doing something.
And…
TRUST
YOUR
INSTRUMENTS
about15yogurts@reddit
Same side safe From top to bottom
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
“Always be doing something, if you aren’t doing something right now you are doing it wrong and getting behind”
antieye555@reddit
A technique for holding entry that I still use is bug the outbound heading, then you imagine overlaying the holding pattern on your HSI, with the little airplane as the holding fix and the "radial" to your heading bug as the radial the holding pattern is on. Makes it a lot easier to visualize which holding entry you should be doing.
LightPilotLifeguard@reddit
Inside of the FAF on something like an ILS/LOC, your corrections generally shouldn't be anymore than 2º. Anything more than that, and you'll probably be shooting through the centerline
tacosenjoyer@reddit
Holds are easy.
3 simple steps each time: go direct to the fix, fly outbound, intercept inbound. Same for all entry procedures, with little variation.
Also they give you your outbound in the clearance in a form of a cardinal direction.
Bonus:
Your CDI needle always shows in the correct cardinal direction, even if you set up to/from wrong (loc is the only exception).
packardrod44@reddit
A PPL teaches you the basics of how to fly. An IR teaches you when not to fly.
CaptMcMooney@reddit
hmm, i'd say that ifr flight pretty much boils down to the following,
what am i supposed to be doing now
what do i need to do next
have something of an idea of what's after
staying in and ahead of the plane are really what the IR is about
VillageIdiotsAgent@reddit
Yep. I taught it like this: IFR is a constant cycle of asking yourself these questions:
Where am I?
Where am I going?
How do I know I’m there?
What do I do when I get there?
Just over and over again.
fighteracebob@reddit
The way I was taught: always have a mental list of the next three things that need to happen.
BigBadPanda@reddit
Workload management.
AcceptableCrazy9486@reddit
After PPL I stopped using a knee board with pen and paper and just wrote on my iPad. After getting my IR, I’m back to using a knee board with pen and paper. Writing on the iPad sucks in flight, especially if you’re climbing through clouds with no autopilot and they are changing your route.
Mastering trim was the key for me. After that it’s just throttle adjustments. Below glideslope, add a little throttle. Above glideslope, pull a little throttle. Speed stays the same, barely need to touch the controls.
Marbleman1968@reddit
I was about half way through my instrument rating when my instructor went off to airlines. My new instructor a retired AF Colonel who led a F117 squadron. He climbed into the schools 182 with his knee board and its worn out elastic. Never again did I not bring a knee board. He didn’t care about iPad notes or foreflight. He would make up departures for me to fly on every flight. JFK vors out of FRG.
An amazing teacher and even nicer guy.
bdc41@reddit
Slow the plane down, it gives you the time to make decisions.
Beergoggles222@reddit
Always ask yourself “What is the next thing I need to do?” Then ask yourself if you are prepared and have all the information you need to do that task.
TxAggieMike@reddit
5-T’s
Canadian47@reddit
I hesitate to share this one but an examiner shared this with me during a debrief. Please don't take it 100% seriously but it did help me deal with regulation overload...
All the really important rules are unambiguous. If a rule is vague and subject to interpretation it is likely not that important.
mason_mormon@reddit
Half the stuff you learn in PPL/IR is trivia. Know what's important and after your checkride focus on that.
carsgobeepbeep@reddit
Program EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN ahead of time while still on the ground. Keeps you ahead of the airplane soooo much better.
For example:
- your departure freq in COM1 standby
- the route and approach you think you will be cleared for loaded in the GPS
- the ATIS of your next airport in COM2
- the next ILS or VOR you need in NAV1 + NAV2 for redundancy, and your next one after that OR your missed in standby
- the initial altitude you were cleared to in CRAFT bugged on your G5
- and so on to the extent your avionics have room for anything else.
osfoz@reddit
For me, it was ‘make the smallest possible correction that positively remove the deviation’. This slows down how fast things are happening and let’s me fly more precisely
WoodpeckerSolid1279@reddit
Dont hit that mountain.
flyingron@reddit
Mispelled-This@reddit
“Never be doing nothing.” Take every opportunity to get/stay ahead of the plane.
banana1and@reddit
Same as for private, but talking out loud when you’re flying helped me a ton. Made it so if I was silent for too long it meant I was fixated on one instrument or not thinking of what I should be doing to stay ahead of the plane
Foreigntecch23@reddit (OP)
This ^^^
Dangerous_Mud4749@reddit
The "next event" workcycle.
It tells you what you should be thinking about, and how long you have to think about it.
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
If you’re not doing something you’re doing something wrong.
Krysocks@reddit
What do I have to do now
What do I have to do in 5 minutes
What can I do now to reduce my workload in 5 minutes
Repeat
Develop your flow and do as much as you can to stay ahead
4thebeachpirate@reddit
I haven’t taught for like 100 years. About to retire from a major airline (international captain). Hear this,,, KISS! Keep it simple stupid,, RTFQ,, read the fuc!ing question! Look at all the instruments at once and keep scanning. What’s next. Attitude indicator what wing is in the dirt and is that right,, what’s next. I fly my small airplane a lot and from the Min I take off, I’m doing something. The approach may be 2 hours away but I’m thinking,, when do I descend, where am I going, what’s the EASIEST way to keep it simple. Look at holding and don’t worry about your hand or doing math,, just do what makes sense. You will never get busted for being 5 degrees off an entry. Plan everything ahead of time, and for gods sake, have fun.
FridayMcNight@reddit
For G1000, or any garmin avionics, the Garmin Academy videos done by CFII Matt Clark on YouTube are outstanding.
Doing it a lot keeps the skill sharp. It's a perishable skill that fades faster than you think.
Dizzy_College_1932@reddit
If the workload gets to be too much, you can 99% of the time slow the plane down.
Be ahead of the aircraft. Fly your flight on the ground before you take off.
Don’t get bogged down in tasks that you don’t need to be doing or prepping for.
-burnr-@reddit
Fly good. Don't suck.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
IFR pilots / CFII’s — what was the ONE IFR tip or explanation that completely changed the game for you?
I’m talking about that thing that didn’t make sense for the longest time… then someone explained it a certain way and suddenly it CLICKED. The lightbulb moment.
Could be:
- scan technique
- holding
- briefing approaches
- staying ahead of the airplane
- altitude management
- workload management
- G1000 setup
- avionics flow
- trim/pitch/power concepts
- approach setup
- mental models
- anything
For me right now, one thing I’m struggling with is occasionally stepping below a restricted altitude and also staying consistent with pitch + power settings. Sometimes I feel like I’m reacting instead of staying ahead.
For the G1000 crowd:
What setup/workflow/features helped you the most in IFR training? Any habits that reduced workload or made situational awareness easier?
Also:
What’s something you specifically practiced with your instructor that REALLY sharpened your IFR skills?
Trying to build a thread full of those “wish I knew this sooner” IFR lessons for instrument students.
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
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