March 1998, a street demonstration from Istanbul, people showing solidarity with Kosovo. Did your country have such demonstrations during that time?
Posted by Empty-Pace-4228@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 147 comments
ddomini9@reddit
I'm not usually for bombings causebinnocent get killed but in this case bombing came 10 years too late. Many innocents and families would be spared in early 90's.
Western_Rock9414@reddit
Sorry, I was with the serbian side in that war
Local_Geologist_2817@reddit
So you side with genocide?
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
There were approximatively 10k deaths in the Kosovo war for several years of fighting, and it's according to international institutions, none of which statued about genocide being committed here. If the Kosovo war was a genocide, then pretty much any kind of war throughout human history was.
Barbak86@reddit
The attempted genocide argument is connected more to the organized displacement/ expulsion than the killing themselves which are not as alarming as the number of deaths in Bosnia or Rwanda, and to the fact that it was done with the knowledge, encouragement and involvement of state institutions. There was a train leaving from Prishtina to no-man's-land which we were "encouraged" to hop on back then.
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
1.2 Million European were kicked out of Algeria, no one judged the Nakba as genocide, not even to to think about Stalin moving German around on the other side of the Oder. On a smaller scale you have also the exemples of Oluja in Croatia and Azerbaijan emptying Karabagh from Armenians. Not defending that by the way, but it's a reality of modern warfare, if just about anybody does genocide, nobody does. Plus, the genocide qualification being throwned around by the Western side during the Yugoslav war mainly serve to aliment an Albanian and Bosnian chauvinism that will use to deny anything short of maximalist positions in a peaceful settlement of national issues. (like trying war criminals from their own state, the status of the remaining Serb minority in their country etc)
Barbak86@reddit
I know, I know. I'm just saying how it was, and as I said it was more of an attempted genocide if we take the parameters of the way the Armenian Genocide is defined as being a genocide.
As for the peaceful settlement, we don't need to call it genocide what happened in Kosovo to portray what happened. Serb state institutions fucked it up back then, tried to hide as much as possible their deeds by shipping bodies out of Kosovo. Majority of the people don't want to be under Belgrade's administration again. That's the end of the story more or less. What can be talked about is the lack of willingness to resolve open issues regarding the Serb minority in Kosovo and the lack of willingness from Serbia to acknowledge that Kosovo is gone.
driftstyle28@reddit
Please don't compare Kosovo War to the Armenian genocide, 1.5 million Armenians were systematically massacred, starved to death and subjected to death marches.
pleja_@reddit
Sve se brate slazem 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Barbak86@reddit
There were marches in Kosovo too, but since Kosovo is small, walking from Mitrovica to the Albanian border is not as hardcore than walking from Anatolia to Lebanon.
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
I'm not for Serbian conquest of nowadays Kosovo, I exposed my view on the matter in a thread on this sub a few days ago
BeneficialAd8431@reddit
So you call what you did as normal standard, but you expect absolute fairness from the albanian part?
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
I don't want them to be sued for genocide, so I don't see what is your point ?
BeneficialAd8431@reddit
But you want them charged. Even if they allegedly had committed war crimes, how much has Serbia charged of its own people so far?
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
The military leaders of Serbia of that time literally were convicted of various accusation of war crimes and population expulsion ? I just want guys who gave similar orders to the Albanian side to get similar sentences, for people who lost their housing to get the right of resettling or at least some sort of compensation, and after that, everyone will move on.
BeneficialAd8431@reddit
Few of high profile cases that ended up, weren't charged by Serbia, rather international institutions/influence/pressure. Same as Thaci is facing today.
As for lower profiles that committed over 20k rapes in Kosovo, among many many crimes, faced nothing.
The rest, still in charge of your country.
As for your suggestion, sounds fair but only if there's a suggestion and plan for recognition. Otherwise I see no reason why Kosovo must negotiate with Serbia at any capacity.
drugosrbijanac@reddit
>"Few of high profile cases that ended up, weren't charged by Serbia, rather international institutions/influence/pressure"
That's because international community demanded that they be sent to Hague. In fact, Serbia was signatory and did so by the contract. In fact, when it tried to try them, the Albanians voiced concerns that they won't be fair.
greenest_alien@reddit
It's not reality of modern warfare, NATO did not create mass graves for hundreds of Afghans at a time by killing everyone from little boys to elderly, nor did they create refugees out of most of populations, or ban any local education or use of language.
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
What. 200k people died in the 2001 Afghanistan war, 10k in the Kosovo war.
greenest_alien@reddit
Of which in Afghanistan 46 000 were civilians of which half were killed by pro-government forces, of which a minority were killed by NATO, in a country with a population of 40 million over the course of 20 years.
Now let's scale that against Kosovo population and timeline of Serbian war on it.
drjnn@reddit
Do you actually have any idea how your state harboured and protected war criminals that acted during the 90’s ?
hopper_froggo@reddit
Idk what you are on about since the Nakhba and ethnic cleansing of Karabagh are absolutely considered genocides.
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
They're not, not by any international institution.
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
French did 2 genocides in Algeria in 1830 and 1955 and was applying a brutal apartheid state. Each around 1 million casualties. They were systematically attacking the locals by police state, like Israel.
That is absolutely correct.
Armenians left themselves, BTW you forget that in 1992, Armenians displaced and murdered 700,000 Azerbaijanis in Karabagh. Their prime minister said: "Now they know we aren't the ones to belittled. We avenged the 1915 events", despite Azerbaijanis wasn't even Turkish.
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
Don't take history lessons from Magrebi nationalists, Algerian population grew up by several millions during French rule and there never was any kind of deportation of the local population to other Magrebi countries.
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
Your comment is sad, because both have Western book sources (I read the numbers), and I watched an American Youtube history channel describe the horrible acts done by the French, like breaking the broom handle inside of a man's as*. They were just like Israel about violent inventions.
This is a typical Israel argument. Do you deny their genocide also?
And, in 1830's, Algerian population decreased by 1 million in the next decades, not increased like you said.
greenest_alien@reddit
I would like to hear more about your personal experience.
Barbak86@reddit
Nothing special my dude. Our Serb neighbors said to us that tomorrow the paramilitaries will come at 12 o'clock and they can't guarantee anything when they come to check us, therefore it's better we leave. The whole Albanian people of our neighborhood left for the train station the following day (3/4 of the neighborhood).
The train was waiting in the Prishtina Train station. It didn't have any fixed time it started the jurney to the no-man's-land when it was full. The only fix thing was that they were waiting there a few times a day.
My neighborhood was encouraged to leave quite late compared to others, so the carriages were not full of people like in the first days when the NATO Intervention started.
We were dropped off a short walk to the no-man's-land, made to move on the tracks since the soldiers told us there are mines on the side.
We got to the no-man's-land, and we got stuck there for a whole week, until Macedonians opened the border, organized busses and sent us to a normal refugee camp.
The camp felt like a stroll through the park compared to the hellhole that no-man's-land (Blace was the name of that place) was. It was cold, rainy, no shelter the first night, mud, shit, and a sea people. I didn't take a shit for a whole week we were there. It was horrible. Food, plastic covers for shelter and water came sporadically from Macedonia. Local Albanians from Macedonia would bring it and throw the stuff from the small trucks. It was crazy. I can still remember it vividly.
The refugee camp was well organized by NATO troops. We had shelter, latrines, food, medical care. We were snuck out of the camp through family friends who organized a diplomatic car to come in and take us out of the camp. We went in the south of Macedonia, municipality of Resen, Prespa Region, near Greece and Albania. There we were given a house in a village (Kran) that belonged to an Albanian family living in the US. After the war ended in Kosovo we went back immediately, to find our apartment completely destroyed, but we didn't care, we were happy.
That's a short version of the train ride and the following two weeks spent on camps. There is shit that happened prior to it, but it doesn't matter, it was long ago.
greenest_alien@reddit
That is crazy. I am glad to get to know such an experience from someone who was there, because everything is so sanitised and on paper and many details get lost.
Barbak86@reddit
My story is basically the same story of most of the Albanians from Prishtina who were kicked out. The biggest difference was the time when you were kicked. The early days it was fucked up at the train station. People pushing and screaming and crying. We could hear them because my neighborhood had a clear line of sight towards the train station.
Watching bands of Serbian aligned Roma breaking Albanian shops down the street. That was crazy as well. Just some of the stuff I can remember vividly.
Severe-Bad-9333@reddit
And yet only 1% of Kosovo population is Serbian. We didn't even know how to commit a proper genocide lol.
Barbak86@reddit
Well, that's the case in Krajina as well. It seems like there is a pattern. Wherever serb nationalists start some action, they end up fucking it up.
Good-Plankton-3441@reddit
Kosovo is the israel of the Balkans
NidzoMadjija@reddit
The notion that a million people were displaced is ridiculous from a logistical stabdpoint. How do you move like 90 percent of the regions population on that infrastructure, in such a short timeframe?
The war(s) happened because they were convenient to the western regimes, justified American military presence in Europe and NATOs existence, nothing more.
Barbak86@reddit
How? By train, forced marches, private vehicles and so on. I personally was kicked out by train. Around 800.000 were located in Albania and Macedonia. Those are numbers from UN agencies.
NidzoMadjija@reddit
That's why I refuse to believe them. The same UN that lies about everything is suddenly objective and truthful about the evil serbs. Sure thing.
And I don't believe you either. In fact I can bet real money that you are just fishing for sympathy.
Barbak86@reddit
You wou have lost your money. I don't give a shit about sympathy. I'm just telling you how it was because unlike you I was alive and aware during that time.
driftstyle28@reddit
What genocide? The ICJ and ICTY did not find any evidence or convict anyone of genocidal acts in Kosovo. Only the US State Department tried to say it was a genocide but everyone else laughed it off. On that basis "Genocide Watch" would also say that the Albanians commited genocide against local Serb and Romani populations.
Strange-Bat-7977@reddit
Pedantic asshole serbs always arguing semantics because they got shit for brains. Going to a village, killing the men, raping the women and kicking them out then. It wasnt genocide, it was that.
1970ivan@reddit
Then the pogrom of 2004 is also genocide against the Serbs, destroying of Serbian ortodox churches and graveyards is cultural genocide and the state oppression against the local Serb population is apartheid. So you are not the only victim here with your shit for brain
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
What are you talking about? Are you aware of what albanians were doing to Serbian women snd children back then? You have countless rape victim testimonials, countless Serbian families who lost their members, including many children, albanian organ traffickers that were directly connected to your state officials. And why are you so aggressive? That behavior of yours, which is quite typical I might add, just helps paint you and your kind in the negative light that forms the prevailing opinion on albanians, also goes to prove that you would, rape, murder, decapitate, butcher and traffic people and organs again. There's a reason why nearly all European countries have an opinion that they have about your kind, your only support comes from Israel usa and turkey, three of the most brutal, murderous and genocidal nations, two of which are still at it and you're cheering for it. Stop embarrassing yourself, no need to keep revealing your bloodthirsty nature, we all know you have it in you.
AccomplishedQuit6535@reddit
He was on the right side. I also supported Serbia . Kosovo is rightfully part of Serbia. You cannot immigrate to parts of neighboring country and then claim these lands as yours and this is what Albanians have been doing. Not only with Serbia but with all its neighbors
Content-Departure-77@reddit
Genocide LOL
Western_Rock9414@reddit
I do not know what to say about that
Formal-Can-4168@reddit
Sorry for what? It's not that your opinion can change history
Aakhkharu@reddit
Don't know about then, but nowdays in greece most people shriek about the us/nato bombings but when it comes to milosevic's ethnic cleanising; "didn't happen, and they deserved it".
Etsikaietsi@reddit
Greeks were always bros.
Aakhkharu@reddit
Tankies, more like..
driftstyle28@reddit
When I hear the word "Tankie" I know I'm in an argument with someone <80 IQ
Aakhkharu@reddit
When i'm seeng people whitewashing genocides perpetrated by commie dictators because 'west=bad' i know i'm in an argument with a tankie with a barely functional brain... like most greeks (and not only) who "forget" milosevic's crimes..
driftstyle28@reddit
So anyone who dislikes the Clinton administration and the Epstein class is a Communist? Great logic, now go back to /pol/ and make Daddy Epstein proud.
Aakhkharu@reddit
What are you on about? Talk about intended missunderstanding/putting words in one's mouth and missdirecting the conversation...
Milosevic was a communist dictator who commited warcrimes and ethnic cleansing. Tankies everywhere, always, excuse or deny his and other red faschist dictators' crimes (pol pot, mao, stalin etc).
I said nothing about clinton or epstein, this has nothing to do with them. This is about bloodshed perpetrated by a dictator, not to even mention the human safari organised by the bosnian serbs in sarajevo.
Every sane human on earth shoud despise epstein and his ilk but also monsters such as milosevic. It very simple. And yet, the red faschists have a very clear double standart, and have also the gull to "whatabout" about the "eeevil west" all the time.
NidzoMadjija@reddit
He was not a communist, and he did not commit genocide. Go rail about the cold war somewhere else.
Aakhkharu@reddit
Sure he wasn't, sure he didn't... why don't you go rail about history (genocide) denial somewhere else?
NidzoMadjija@reddit
US state department talking points aren't history.
Aakhkharu@reddit
See, the slaughtered civilians are not 'talking points'. But if the kremlin says that the sky is red, you'd start seeing it as such.
NidzoMadjija@reddit
Nice fallback argument, this "Kremlin". Too bad it only works on pre-programmed minds that went through the red scare.
Same for "slaughtered" civilians, it has a nice emotional hook, makes anyone who opposes your view sound like some inhuman maniac even if your arguments are put into question impassionately and logically. Such a refined tactic, discredit AND dehumanize at the same time, bravo!
You sure you aren't a commie yourself? All of this is straight out of Andropovs playbook.
Aakhkharu@reddit
Talk about 'dehumanizing' from one who called an ethnic cleansing a "talking point" and implying that it is american propaganda.
Also, nice strategic use of "red scare". Not emotional at all btw /s. Implying that every criticism of communist regimes are invalid because "propaganda". No commie ever did anything wrong, it was all the eeeevil west's fault. In other words: "we didn't do it and they deserved it". Famous kremlin rhetoric.
I still have not seen a single reasonable "logical" argument... only denial. And it is perfectly reasonable as there can be no logical argument for the intended murder of civilians by the state because they are against the state, the only thing that one can do is to deny deny deny and frame it as "talking points".
And yes, anyone who supports the slaughter of people who do not want to be part of the gulag of the peoples is a kremlin mouthpiece, either by malevolent design or naivete.
And, to answer to your predictable "whatabout palestine". Yes its still a crime, netaniahu and trump must face tribunal. Alongside putin, zi, the ayatolah and kim at least.
NidzoMadjija@reddit
Your ideologically charged ramblings are getting tedious to read, please go find another victim :)
Aakhkharu@reddit
So you have no actual arguments and reasoning, after all. I see.
greenest_alien@reddit
Mass graves full of Albanians are tho
NidzoMadjija@reddit
I will consider the evidence of their potential existence only when and after atrocities against the Serbs are condemned (since they can't be punished, as the perpetrators are long dead), and the ongoing persecution of my compatriots ended. This victim card had expired decades ago.
greenest_alien@reddit
Your compatriots literally have full nationality rights in Kosovo and Albanian leaders from during the war were dragged to the court sometimes several times over.
Meanwhile existence of mass graves such as the one at Batajnica is not up for debate, that's a simple fact.
driftstyle28@reddit
"red fascists" LMAO
Aakhkharu@reddit
Yes. A term used (if not created) by soviet social democrats to criticise how the totaletarian stalinist ussr had become a fascist state: use of terror and violence (secret police) against civilians to repress dissent and criticism of the tottaly-not-dictator stalin, the militarism (look at our mighty red army), the deportations of the crimenan tatars, the ruzzification of the enslaved peoples by outlawing their native languages and systematically killing the representatives of their national idenitites such as the mass executions of belarussian authors and poets, the extermination of the ukrainian cossack bandurists and a myriad other crimes commited by the red (fascist) state against its own people and not only.
greenest_alien@reddit
Whenever I hear someone say "Epstein class" I know an argument is going on with someone <70 IQ
driftstyle28@reddit
Someone with your posting history shouldn't say stuff like that :)
Dramatic_Bench_3479@reddit
We’re on Reddit, we are Ghislaine Maxwell’s disciples just as much as /pol is Jeffrey’s.
elektricni_man187@reddit
Složio bih se
elektricni_man187@reddit
Slažem se.
Nomansband@reddit
Wooow... You spinned it so much now you believe you were the good guys eh? One can dislike the Clinton administration and also acknowledge Serbia is formed through a genocide. They're not exclusive facts.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Yeah that word means nothing.
Elegant-Method902@reddit
A proper bro helps a bro dispose corpses in the middle of the night and doesn't snitch.
alkorisno@reddit
CIA admitted that they lied, just like with WMD in Iraq
Barbak86@reddit
I bet you 90% of these people are Turkish "Albanians", who are fierce in their identity as "Albanians" within the Turkish context.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
I knew some of them who were there. Most of them were not.
I also have friends whose families went to Bosnia with illegal busses to help Bosnians during that time
lemongrade5@reddit
You're forgetting about Bursa. I myself am an Albanian Turk and my grandfather came to Istanbul back in 1924 from Skopje, his father (my great grandfather) had military buddies that settled in Bursa and if you go there now there are bunch of neighbourhoods of 2nd, 3rd generation Albanian Turks. Estimates are there are 30m+ Balkan Turks currently living in Turkey, 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation of course.
stats_merchant33@reddit
30+ million is crazy haha. Any sources for that? Or do you more so mean that 30m+ Turks have some sort of ancestry going back to Balkans partially (like one great great grandfather/grandmother or something), which also seems way too high, but somewhat more probable. We also have villages where a lot of these Balkaners live but they’re really a minority.
lemongrade5@reddit
A quick google search suggests 15-20m people but I heard this from a historian at one of the Skopje Association meetings. As I said, it is an estimate since it's difficult to track with all the intermarriages etc.
I don't think it's a crazy number at all. Ottomans sent a lot of other Beyliks they assimilated to the Balkans to Turkify/Islamify them, my ancestory being of Karaman origins. After the war was lost people that felt/were Turkish came back. Meral Aksener has a very emotional speech about that journey back.
stats_merchant33@reddit
I think it's a crazy number when you account for the 15-20 million Kurds we have in the country. But I think we didn't agree on the definition of your wording "Balkan Turks" from above. If you include here families where 1 greatparent or further is from Balkans or other partial ancestry constellations, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with your 15-20m number, even though I find the label "Balkan Turk" quite misleading then.
To my understanding, the Google AI Suggestion citing your 15-20m number, also clearly speaks of partial ancestry. I probably have also 1 great great grandparent who was Laz but I never would call myself "Laz Turk" because of that if you get my point.
lemongrade5@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_Turkey
Your numbers seem skewed a little bit
stats_merchant33@reddit
Your wiki says also between 14-20 million?
stats_merchant33@reddit
I once read in a paper that around/minimum of 90% of Circassians-villages were located in Samsun province. Are you sure that their stronghold lies in central Anatolia?
Puzzleheaded-Win9898@reddit
Even if they were originally Albanian i dont think there is any Albanian identity left in them, they are assimilated in a long time i think
Barbak86@reddit
Yes, they are very Turkish, but somehow cling to this almost cult like identity of being "Albanian". I guess it serves more to distinguish themselves from the Anatolian Turks then of actually having anything to do with Albanianness. But that's a different topic.
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
Do you know how much they retain Albanian language ? What is your opinion about the Arberesh population in Italy ?
Barbak86@reddit
In Turkey they don't retain their language whatsoever. I've got cousins of my mom there (so does my wife), they went during the 50' there, during the second wave of a mass "encouraged" migration. Only the first generation that actually went there kept the language, everyone after them lost it.
Turkey follows active assimilation/Integration policies, that requires you to change your family name when you become a citizen and so on. That helps to assimilate new arrivals (at least back then) faster.
What is remarkable is that these Albanians who don't have any knowledge of the language and barely know anything about the lands they hail from, keep this identity alive in the Turkish context, because being of Balkan decent is often ties to being part of the elite that emerged after the Young Turks revolution and after Ataturk's war of independence. They use it internally to distance themselves from the Anatolian Turks and Kurdish Turks who are seen as more backwards/conservative.
Arbëresh in Italy have moved over there in times when assimilation pressure was not as strong as it was during the age of Nationalism, so them keeping their language is not a great miracle.
Another reason why they didn't assimilate was that they were mostly higher class people, nobles, knights, who were given land to administer. There wasn't any need to assimilate to the language of their serfs. This can be seen at the fact that they kept original Albanian words for stuff, but not for the professions that produce the stuff (robes, shoes, weapons are in Old Albanian, Taylor, shoemaker, Smith are Calabrian/Sicilian).
And the third, very important reason, is that they are/were not Catholic. They are basically Orthodox people who acknowledge the supremacy of the Pope, but continue keeping their liturgy and rites in the Orthodox way. Because of that, they refer to the Catholics/Italians as Lëtin (Latins) and the locals referred to them more often than not as "Greeks" (because of the use Byzantine rite liturgical language).
Random_Name_2k26@reddit
Turkey isn't unique in this though. How many Italian-Americans speak Italian? How many Irish people speak Irish? How many Occitans speak Occitan? This is happening everywhere. If you don't have a large enough starting population you lose your language to the dominant one.
Barbak86@reddit
I never said it was unique. It just pushed a little more towards a fast assimilation, like changing last names and so on.
Random_Name_2k26@reddit
That's true, but retaining a language is difficult when you're a small population to begin with. Turks in Germany are also losing their language and they're not a very small group to begin with.
dunhere8@reddit
How good you knew about sociology behind balkan migrants in Turkey. It is very true. Being migrant from Balkans seen as high statue in Turkey and it’s not only about Balkan migrants, Circassians as well.
Barbak86@reddit
I know, because I've had contact with such Turks that overemphasize their European heritage while trying simultaneously to disassociate with the "Anatolian peasants".
dunhere8@reddit
So this isn't a new situation at least. “Anatolian peasants” were treated in a similar way back during the Ottoman era as well lol
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
I had Albanian friends from Turkey who could speak Albanian.
Did you know this notable Turkish persons were ethnically Balkan origin? : r/AskBalkans if you're interested, here, I mentionned some Turkish figures of Albanian-Bosnian origin.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
Btw, it may come a bit nerdy but it attracted my attention, the phenotype of the woman that you see in 0:13 is one of the most Turkish phenotypes, it is the mix of what we call Pontid and West Turanid, it is incredibly common among the Turks from İzmir, Aydın and also from Turks of Greece. I had an ex-gf who was like a copy of this woma.
Additional-Penalty97@reddit
Surely many of them were but there was not much a difference in thinking between Turkish Albanians and regular Turkish People in the matter of Kosovo (other than obviously former being more fierce)
Barbak86@reddit
I get it, it's just about the motivation to go to the streets. You may support one thing or the other if someone asks you, but to get out in the street and chant, takes a lot of conviction.
alkorisno@reddit
They suppprted the fellow muslims just so that those muslims betray entire middle east by supportin US wars
No-Jackfruit-2433@reddit
The Turks would never forgive the death of Sultan Murat I at the hands of the Serbian prince Obilic in the Field of Blackbirds.
Otherwise-Strain8148@reddit
Those events might be important for those nations but for us it was tuesday.
BMuadDib@reddit
I didn't know that till now lol. I think the events of the ottoman era are less relevant to the average Turk than one would think :D It's interesting sure, but I won't hate or dislike someone because of some events centuries ago.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
I'm giving you a secret info from Turkey, 90% of populaion doesn't even remember of this event or care about Serbia.
JaimeJabs@reddit
Eight? Until today, all I knew about Serbia was Tadic and some of the classic Balkan cultural traditions like genocide.
drjnn@reddit
Kind of funny to see Greeks and Macedonians (and Serbs) trying to argue about the terminology to use for the crimes done during the war in Kosovë in the comments. As if it was not a genocide then yeah it’s alright and it makes it ok to have been supporting them.
Some of you should be awarded a gold medal for mental gymnastics.
xr3dxi@reddit
If it happens to em and they get their soldiers killed (war of independence of turkey) it is genocide. But if they r on the opposite side of the story they always come up with some made up terminology for the atrocities happened lmao
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
Albanians contributed a lot to our country.
Random_Name_2k26@reddit
Not as much as Armenians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balyan_family
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
And?
AbbreviationsOk1999@reddit
He wants to tell you that you try to present some fake relationships. Back in the time you had only interest from the Albanians that Ottomans could pay them lightly so they can be their basibozuk.
You don't give a shit for AL. They give a shit for you because of some partial Muslim connection. And of course because Turkey still donates to them, and use them for their interests.
What is this guy trying it tell you is that you have more history and cultural connection with the Christian Armenians than with modern Muslim Albanians.
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
Says who? An Armenian or a Serbian knows better than a Turkish? You are all delusional.
AbbreviationsOk1999@reddit
🤫🤫
vldrvldrm@reddit
Yes - we had solidarity protests for the kurds
Simplekvk@reddit
bunch of terrorists claiming those lands as their own just because there is a large kurdish population there 😂even tho sometimes they live under better circumstances than turks they are not the victims
Plus-Gap1073@reddit
based turkey
Formal-Can-4168@reddit
Most support came from the US and the UK, by far. Outside of these demonstrations, Turkey is not that supportive (not that it has to be)
envalemdor@reddit
This is a pure bullshit look up UÇK then check how many Albanians live in Turkey. There’s a bigger Albanian community in Turkey than in Albania
Formal-Can-4168@reddit
They ancestors were deported there by Yugoslav authorities. And guess what? They are turks now, no sign of their Albanianess except some slogans
envalemdor@reddit
You're an Albanian living in diaspora, telling how other diaspora Albanians are not true Albanians..
This is a peak Mehmet from Berlin moment LOL.
Formal-Can-4168@reddit
I mean are they Albanians or Turks? They renounced to their identity, I didn't. That's the difference
Plus-Gap1073@reddit
Out of 128 bombing runs on Serbia,100 of them were by the U.S,dont know why it gets called a "NATO bombing" when it was basically just America,anyway,Turkey provided around 18 F-16 during the bombings,their president had said they didnt want to do anything in the Balkans until the U.S intervened
Formal-Can-4168@reddit
I don't get your point (?)
Plus-Gap1073@reddit
Nor do I get yours.
Formal-Can-4168@reddit
Based for what? Demonstration in favor of Albanians in Kosovo were held everywhere, even Israel(!) hosted refugees from Kosovo.
Turkey doesn't deserve the opinion most Albanians have about them. That is my point, they are not based.
You point about the NATO bombing is about what? The US directed the operation as it is the main contributor and maintainer of NATO of course it will have the guide of the main operations.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
In Greece, Romania and even North Macedonia, demonstrations supporting Serbia that was eradicating your people were held under the name of "Anti-Imperialism". Greek Archbishop openly declared support for Serbia, Greece took around 5000 refugees with international pression, which was your neighbor.
Turkey took 20,000 of refugees despite not sharing borders with you and sent F-16 aircraft while having 68,8% inflation.
Formal-Can-4168@reddit
Again, even Israel accepted refugees from Kosovo. The same Israel who is genociding palestinians.
The thing is, the general opinion about Turkey in Albania is very positive. I don't think that is deserverd, other countries showed much more support while not meddling too much into our internal affairs
Plus-Gap1073@reddit
Well sure,whatever, theyre not based,theyre sure as hell based for this though
Putrid_Speed_5138@reddit
The reason was that Kosovo was out of range for F-16s based in Turkey.
Turks needed an ally base closer to Kosovo, which they got only after U.S. intervened.
This was also the reason why Turkey couldn't use F-16s to protect Bosnians earlier.
At least this was the explanation that later Turkish PM and FM Davutoglu wrote in his book.
Plus-Gap1073@reddit
Completely true
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)
1999, refugees from K𝔬sovo arrive in Turkey. The first round of twenty-thousand Albanians were sheltered in prefabricated houses in Gaziosmanpasa & Kirklareli, which were built for Turkish refugees from Bulgaria a decade ago and also used to accommodate Muslims fleeing the Bosnian w𝔞r. : r/AskBalkans
Shouldn't forget that Turkey hosted Albanian refugees, escaping from war and saved many lives. And we're very proud for helping them.
Plus-Gap1073@reddit
Good on you folks
Formal-Can-4168@reddit
Partly true but also the Turkish political stance with Kosovo was much more cautious while with Bosnians Turks were very vocal
Formal-Can-4168@reddit
Of course downvoted for stating the truth
Bilmemkineyapsam@reddit
It’s just the government vs. the people. It’s the same with Israel vs. Turkey. The government was pro-Israeli only until very recently, but the people are incredibly anti-Israel.
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
Anti US protests when Clinton came to visit
Romeo_y_Cohiba@reddit
Similar in Skopje, capital of now North Macedonia. There were protests in 1999. in solidarity with Serbia and against illegal nato aggression. There were a lot of funny associatons concerning Bill Clinton, Monika Lewinsky and mad cow disease which was the thing back then. Unfortunately can't recall the exact phrasing.
Time_Attorney3782@reddit
Still there are many Albanian descendants in Türkiye. They are mostly secular people. During the Bosnia War Türkiye accepted many Albanian, Bosnian refugees.
koltuklanmis_kargi@reddit
What's the relevance of them being secular in this discussion?
OsarmaBeanLatin@reddit
Yes. Pro-Serbia and anti-American demonstrations. I even remember someone holding a sign saying "Serbia is not your Monica"
Barbak86@reddit
That must have been in 1999, after the bombardment started.
OsarmaBeanLatin@reddit
Yeah. People were angry about our government letting Clinton bomb our "Orthodox brothers"
pumpasklitas@reddit
amazingamy19@reddit
😂
So many caricatures of Clinton during that time.
If they ever bombed us again, the memes, at least would be fire.
pumpasklitas@reddit
"Bill, come to our balls"
"Monica, grit your teeth"
Svez1@reddit
Romanians and Greek
Processing img 6f2r4put6u1h1...
Barbak86@reddit
I guess everywhere where there are larger Albanian communities there were demonstrations during 1998, when the war was escalating. I know there were events in Switzerland, US, UK by that time.
Substratas@reddit
❤️
No_Idea_479@reddit