Tаiwаn reаffirms indеpendеncе dеspite Trumр wаrning
Posted by Alex09464367@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 41 comments
Posted by Alex09464367@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 41 comments
amphibia__enjoyer@reddit
Both this and the Trump warning are just reaffirming the status quo, as the article illustrates as well. Taiwanese leaders aren't stupid enough to declare independence, but I guess they also want to shore up their position when bargaining with China. The legal limbo of Taiwan is basically a chicken game at this point with the backdrop of a tug of war in which Beijing has most of "the cards". But the deal Taiwan is currently bound to get when rejoining the mainland, seems to not be to their liking and they also currently still have breathing room to keep the status quo going. It's either war, rejoin the mainland or status quo, unless Beijing has been bluffing all this time or suddenly relinquishes their claim. A claim which is reaffirmed by most countries on this planet, including the US and most of the countries considered its allies.
AlbertoRossonero@reddit
China will never relinquish its claim over Taiwan its too important strategically for its defense.
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
too bad their claim is entirely unfounded and illegitimate
AlbertoRossonero@reddit
As is the USA’s claim to the entire western hemisphere but they have the capability to enforce it so it’s accepted.
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
surely a poster in this sub wouldn't be comparing the Munroe Doctrine to CPC extra-territorial claims, that would be simply too asinine. Also who asked
AlbertoRossonero@reddit
Claiming hegemony of an entire part of the planet seems a lot more insane to me but what do I know 🤷♂️
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
both are insane and neither should be normalised. Your whataboutism only serves to let those who support CPC claims say "see, all they want one crumby little island. Since the US "claims" the entire Western Hemisphere, surely it should be acceptable for us to have an island"
No. It is not acceptable. Neither are they comparable. Apples are not oranges.
Oppopity@reddit
The US claims an entire hemisphere meanwhile China claims a part of China that also claims the rest of China because there was a chinese civil war and both lay claim to all of china.
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
... and here comes another using the word claim with two different meanings in the same sentence then trying to claim (hurr hurr) that they are the same thing. Leave this sub
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
this is, of course, not a comment in support of the Munroe Doctrine.
Ruby2312@reddit
Your support mean shit buddy, you only get to vote when it’s not in direct conflict of interest with the ruler class. And the other guy just pointing out might make right, nobody give a shit what right and wrong in geopolitic
Ok_Relation7695@reddit
Bullshit
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
lol, really worthwhile contribution there, chief
voidox@reddit
I mean, ur reply to the other user who left an actual contribution was "duh ur lying blah blah blah, no nuance, not going to reply", so pot meets kettle there bud.
dude out here defending Taiwan with his life, I hope ur ready to sign up to fight for Taiwan and defend it
cursedbones@reddit
Like Taiwan's over mainland China?
You forget (or ignore ) that Taiwan under Japanese rule should've been returned to China after WW2.
After the Civil War, the loser fleed to the Island where Chiang Kai-shek installed a brutal dictatorship. And until 1971 China, Taiwan was considered the "real" China.
The only reason we have this situation is because the CCP couldn't finish the job because they didn't have a navy.
Now that Taiwan can't do anything about it they play the victim card. The situation just flipped.
And to be clear I support Taiwanese people's right to be an independent country. But according to their own constitution it's Taiwan, China and even parts of Mongolia.
But we live in a real world where past Taiwanese rulers burnt this bridge. China'd never allow Taiwan to become a base for a possible offensive against them and the country playing on West's hand doesn't help their case.
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
I forget nothing, no such "should" ever existed. The island was not ceded to any polity at the time, neither PRC or ROC, and neither did the polity that controlled Taiwan before Japan seized the island still exist.
The only reason we have this situation is the CPC inability to take the win and let the ROC remain stuck on Taiwan, and their subsequent and continuing repression of the Mainland.
Your understanding of the nuance of the whole situation is so lacking it's kinda not really worth continuing to engage
AVonGauss@reddit
Taiwan isn't necessary for China's defense so much as it's a liability to their security much like the relationship between Cuba and the United States. All of that has very little to do with why Taiwan is such a sensitive topic to China.
FullMetalAurochs@reddit
What do you mean rejoin? The CCP has never ruled Taiwan. Before the war Japan had it for decades.
Mr_Zaroc@reddit
Yeah Tawain started as the hold out for the gov against the rising of the communist government.
If they would join, it would be more correct to say they have finally recognized the rebels instead of rejoining them
MelodiusRA@reddit
They re-affirmed the claim under a separate pre-text in the 70s.
These days, they affirm the status quo just to not rock the boat. But there would be consequences to China if they attacked Taiwan that did not exist in the 70s.
Alex09464367@reddit (OP)
The CCP never had to control of Taiwan. So it will not be rejoining anything as the Qing dynasty doesn't exist anymore.
InevitableTension699@reddit
I mean true but the Chinese civil war isn't officially over legal wise (no treaty or armistice) so they can still fight it out one day to claim territory
imunfair@reddit
Legal technicalities don't matter anyway - that kind of thinking is brought to you by the same people who were mystified that Russia could attack Ukraine. The rules are might makes right, nothing else really matters as long as you have the global power to back it up.
GetOutOfTheWhey@reddit
I would argue that there leader is just that stupid to declare independence but cant because they dont have the vote to pass it.
Taiwan's last election saw a minority party get elected into office because the other two parties could not decide to form a coalition before the elections.
But then decided to form an informal one after the elections. Thereby making the Lai government a minority government where they cannot pass new laws including being unable to declare independence as that would require a referendum on the country's constitution.
ausmomo@reddit
Taiwan saw what happened to Hong Kong, so they will never accept reunification.
The only question that remains in my mind is will the USA actually engage in war with China if China invades Taiwan.
I lean towards Yes, but there's also a decent chance of "nah , can't be assed"
imunfair@reddit
There won't be time under the current paradigm - that's why if China is going to do it they'd be smart to do it before drone counters become common and ruin their advantage. The old thinking was that they'd have to blockade the island, which would give the US time to intervene. That isn't the case currently, but that window is closing.
ausmomo@reddit
The Thucydides Trap trap is real, which is why Xi mentioned it.
If the USA sees China as a genuine challenge to the USA's sole superpower status, the then USA would probably take action sooner than later.
imunfair@reddit
I fully believe that's why we're causing chaos in the world right now, it was already obvious from Biden's presidency that we were well on the decline, Trump's flailing has just exposed it further. But the nuclear era means we can't directly confront or attack the nation threatening to surpass us, so it just sets off a bunch of proxy wars like Ukraine and Israel.
I don't think it will ever degrade into a full on world-war scenario, but it may end up with some superpowers getting bogged down in Vietnams if they get too invested in a particular proxy conflict. We could try to make Taiwan into China's vietnam but I don't think it would work like Ukraine because there's no good logistics route to keep the island supplied unless China allows it.
buster_de_beer@reddit
Iran isn't over, and they are also eyeing Cuba, Colombia, Greenland, even Brazil. I would almost say the US is getting itself into a Nazi Germany situation. That people also didn't believe would become a world war. Big difference being nuclear weapons. I don't see the American people, as a whole, able or willing to stop it.
imunfair@reddit
None of those places would constitute a world war scenario - the US flailing on a global scale is not a world war until the main developed nations form alliances and start fighting one another. And that's unlikely to happen over any of the places you named.
Iran is the only one with potential, if China and Russia wanted to throw their weight behind them, but it's more likely to end up as another vietnam for the US, if we were silly enough to go as far as putting boots on the ground.
ausmomo@reddit
Japan and Korea would, again most probably, help Taiwan.
If China strikes US assets in Japan, it's going to be ww3. It could be fought without nukes
imunfair@reddit
I'm not sure how you envision that being anything different than Ukraine where we slowly lose because we're meddling in another superpower's sphere of influence, except in the case of Taiwan our logistics would be even more hindered. It would be like Russia trying to fight us for control of Cuba, lunacy.
buster_de_beer@reddit
Greenland is part of Denmark, and while not strictly an EU member, they are Danish citizens and thus EU citizens. And your doubt that anyone would go to war is exactly how the last world war started.
imunfair@reddit
Europe doesn't have a chance in hell against the US, they could barely stand up to Russia if they managed to win that fight at all. They'd never go against us, they'd just read some sternly worded letters in the UN if we took Greenland.
bjj_starter@reddit
I think it's extremely presumptuous to assume anti-drone systems will end up dominating the balance of power. Even a hypothetically fantastic anti-drone system, like a high powered laser CIWS, can be cheaply defended against with ablative coatings and (once they know the laser's frequency) very cheap & effective mirroring. Just because no one has needed to produce drones that last longer against lasers yet doesn't mean it's impossible.
For any point defence system, because of time to kill & slew time there will be a number of simultaneous drones that can overwhelm it & destroy the system, opening a hole in the defence. You can make that number very large, but I don't think it's ultimately feasible to make it larger than the amount of drones China can afford to produce. The defence that seems most viable long term is to build a drone swarm of interceptor drones, so you can scale defence in the same way that the attacker can scale offence.
imunfair@reddit
Makes it easy when people rebut their own arguments in the space of a single post.
bjj_starter@reddit
The only viable defence against drones being other drones doesn't disadvantage the country that can make orders of magnitude more drones than any other country. My point is that there's no silver bullet wunderwaffen that the traditional militaries can employ to negate drones as an offensive technology.
imunfair@reddit
You have zero military sense if you think they're just going to use a single solution. And yes a multi-layered defense can neutralize China's drone supremacy, which is why they'd have to move soon if they wanted to take advantage of the new paradigm created by the Ukraine war.
Multiple systems are already in testing - in less than a decade the loophole will be closed, if not just a few years.
bjj_starter@reddit
So you do actually hold the incorrect opinion every other dinosaur does, you just wanted to be snarky & pretend what I said was contradictory?
Good to know.
imunfair@reddit
Living up to your RES tag, yet another nonsense reply when you lose an argument, at least you're consistent.
_Antitese@reddit
what "happened" to Taiwan, exactly, qns why is it so bad?