Euro NCAP says some car brands are not aiming to be safest
Posted by kstetter@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 150 comments
Posted by kstetter@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 150 comments
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
This is what happens when EuroNCAP/ANCAP etc. have started awarding and subtracting stars for things that are completely unrelated to crash performance.
Most people find the seatbelt warning chimes and other warning systems more annoying than helpful.
BetweenFourAndTwenty@reddit
Whoever makes the seatbelt chimes for Toyota should be hung. They're the most annoying seat belt chimes in the car industry by a million miles.
IceColdCorundum@reddit
Just. Wear the seatbelt?
gimpwiz@reddit
Hanged, preferably. ;)
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
Never realized you couldn’t use those two interchangeably.
rommi04@reddit
People are hanged, meat is hung. I’m not sure there’s a reason for not using hung when referring to people or if it’s just a weird language quirk
jondes99@reddit
The Toyota chime designer appreciates it.
Snappy0@reddit
NCAP is increasing irrelevant by focusing on things like ADAS. I don't care about that stuff. Just tell me, how it holds up in a crash.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
Maybe they left Toyota and joined BMW to design their new lightweight bucket seat!
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Fun fact: Lyndon Johnson designed Toyota's seatbelt chime.
christianbro@reddit
What is the point of awarding those? If you dont wear a seatbelt you most likely dont care at all for the other safety your car has
Simon_787@reddit
Why do you even hear the chime? Just put on the seatbelt, not sure what the issue is here.
expertninja@reddit
My handbag is not a person that needs to be buckled in
Simon_787@reddit
People literally bring dumbells to activate the seat sensor for fake camping mode on lots of cars, and user reports say that >15 Kg are necessary. I also have a tendency to put bags onto passenger seats and I've never had issues with seatbelt warnings.
If you bag is actually that heavy then you should secure it or put it somewhere else.
six3oo@reddit
How bout I do what I fuckin want and my car which I paid for shuts the fuck up and does only what it's told
Simon_787@reddit
How about you get a better car then?
What_the_8@reddit
Do you need one?
Page_Won@reddit
They make something just for this, have you never seen the seatbelt buckles you just attach?
MadUohh@reddit
I love this comment lol
Page_Won@reddit
Don't they react to conductivity not weight?
Simon_787@reddit
You're probably thinking of capacitive touch screens
Page_Won@reddit
No, I'm thinking of the seat sensor.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/s/HA1XLBaey3
Simon_787@reddit
Damn, I actually didn't know that.
That's pretty cool, although not all cars use these and it seems like I mostly used cars that have pressure sensors.
_galaga_@reddit
Fwiw I’ve noticed the current gen Civic warns me something’s in the backseat when it’s a lightly loaded backpack nowhere near 15 kg. It’s not a seatbelt warning but it’s sensing the mass and it seems pretty sensitive.
jaehaerys48@reddit
I’ve never had that problem before and I keep stuff on my seats fairly often.
icecream_specialist@reddit
That's the real issue. The weight threshold for my car to think there's someone in the passenger seat is like 5 lbs
FesteringNeonDistrac@reddit
If it's like my one Subaru, it doesn't give you time to put it on. Especially if you're fumbling with some stuff. Once you start the car, the time is on, and you only have like 15 seconds before it starts screaming at you, even if you don't move. Like chill out bro, I'm getting there.
Simon_787@reddit
Putting the seatbelt on is the first thing I do, so I never ran into this either.
FesteringNeonDistrac@reddit
Yeah I start the car first. Always. Give it a moment to start warming up. Figure out the HVAC, maybe get some tunes going, maybe start waze. In the winter probably get out and scrape.
airfryerfuntime@reddit
When I get the mail, I don't really want to be told to put a fucking seatbelt on to drive across a parking lot.
airfryerfuntime@reddit
ding............ ding... ding... ding... ding... ding... DING DING DING DING DING DING
BetweenFourAndTwenty@reddit
Insert Vietnam flashbacks here
I_like_cake_7@reddit
I’ve been in cars with a concerning amount of people who just drive around with the seat belt chime dinging and ignore it.
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
They used to be really good until like the mid 2010s when they not only changed it to a more annoying beeping sound but also made it louder and go off non stop for like 3 minutes.
Sir_Tokenhale@reddit
It takes me 3 minutes and about 5 seconds to get to my job. Ive never timed it, but I know it for a fact lol.
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
You could walk there! That’s so short lol.
And yeah it’s ridiculously long, however long they made it.
Sir_Tokenhale@reddit
I usually do walk. There is rain and snow to contend with in my neck of the woods though.
Moth92@reddit
Why do I have a feeling your workplace is just a shack/barn on your property?
Sir_Tokenhale@reddit
I wish I had a shack/barn...
julienjj@reddit
Well the point is that it should beep until you attach it.
JK_Chan@reddit
Yea maybe put your damn seatbelt on then
VOOLUL@reddit
So put your seatbelt on Einstein
Keepout90@reddit
it's supposed to be annoying.
Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit
I know many people hate the warning chimes, but given the amount of inattentive garbage drivers I've seen in the last 24 hours, I'd say they are necessary
derprunner@reddit
I think there’s a happy middle ground where obnoxious features are on by default but disableable via OBD tools. So that it’s too hard for your average idiot who treats cars as an appliance, but not impossible if you really want to.
cteno4@reddit
I personally think there should be no way to disable the seatbelt warning. The people who will go out of their way to disable it through OBD are often the ones that need the chime the most.
Jimbenas@reddit
I personally think it’s my car so it really doesn’t matter what someone thinks since it’s my safety. You can still legally drive in one US state without a seatbelt, manufacturers should respect that.
Nhojj_Whyte@reddit
On the other hand though, I ALWAYS wear my seatbelt and yet I also ALWAYS hear the chime for it because my order of operations is: get in, start the car, THEN buckle up while the engine warms up. It always yells at me for this and the chime lasts about as long as it takes me to get buckled.
It's actually great news to me that there may be a way to disable that. Not because I'm an idiot, but because whoever designed the car is lol
Ecsta@reddit
That's because you're doing it wrong, they teach you in drivers ed to buckle up before starting the car.
Nhojj_Whyte@reddit
They didn't teach me that in drivers ed
I don't presently drive a manual, but I guess that's good to know for the future
Even if it was manual, I still struggle to see what could really go wrong. It'd be in neutral with the parking brake on, right? And I'd mostly be parking in flat areas with nothing for me to roll into because, well, manual hill starts suck (as a noob stick driver). If not having my seatbelt on kills me in a situation like that somehow... I was dying anyway
SerendipitouslySane@reddit
If the car crashes when I turn it on and put it in park, then the manufacturer should be warning me with a recall letter, an apology and compensation through a class action lawsuit, not a stupid warning bong chime.
Dan6erbond2@reddit
I never hear it for myself but man it's fucking annoying when I have my dog in the back, buckled to one of three seatbelts but the car thinks he's on another because he doesn't exactly stay still when he has the whole bench to himself.
six3oo@reddit
I personally think there should be no way that people's opinions dictate how other people live their lives. If they wanna DIE, let them DIE.
derprunner@reddit
I personally wouldn’t fuck with the seatbelt chime, but the speed limit one, lane keep one, you haven’t moved the wheel enough whilst cruise control was active one, you’ve driven too long one (despite switching drivers) and check the back seat for kids every time you exit the car sounds can piss right off.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
If anyone was that way inclined, the seatbelt chime can easily be bypassed via hardware using an extremely inexpensive dummy buckle that you can buy off eBay or Amazon.
epihocic@reddit
Here's a crazy idea, make them smarter instead of so annoying people want to disable them. If my car bongs at me for going through a school zone on a saturday or outside school hours it's annoying. If it does it during school hours on a school day i'm happy for it to tell me i'm speeding in a school zone.
JK_Chan@reddit
Well that's fair but people here are complaining about the seatbelt chime. I don't even know what that thing sounds like because Ive never driven without putting my seatbelt on first.
epihocic@reddit
Complaining about the seatbelt chime is ridiculous, unless it's going off incorrectly, like if you have something on a seat and the car then thinks someone is in the seat without a seatbelt, but again the system just needs to be smarter.
We need to stop thinking about getting rid of safety features and start thinking about how to make them smarter so they only interfere when it's necessary.
JK_Chan@reddit
Exactly
six3oo@reddit
Car features are NOT a replacement for drivers education
Shienvien@reddit
The only time a car should be permitted to beep is when it would explode if it didn't. Otherwise people just start disabling or ignoring them. They make people more inattentive and distracted, not less.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
Not to mention alarm fatigue is actually a known phenomenon. A car bonging at you all the time may as well be a car that never bongs at all, as people will train themselves to ignore the alarms and pay them no attention.
lee1026@reddit
If you are trying to get a cheap insurance rate, you want those chimes. Or at least, I rather not be bucketed next to the guys who don’t have the chimes.
sipup@reddit
Best crash is one that can be avoided. Active prevention systems are maybe even more important, but the current mix of annoying lane watchers and beeps and bongs should not be what gets a car to 5 stars
eirexe@reddit
I mean, lane keeping is mandatory ( or will soon be) in the EU, so it's a requirement regardless
FesteringNeonDistrac@reddit
Needs to have 2 ratings. All the active safety in the world won't help you when some inattentive dumbass rear ends you when you're stopped at a light. That's the crash rating. Active safety measures should be a different rating. Avoiding an accident is great, but it's a different thing.
RSDVI01@reddit
Unpopular opinion: I hate lane assist. In emergency situations I might not have time to turn on a direction indicator and lane assist would throw me back.
sipup@reddit
Lane assist mostly tries to crash me because it cant figure out faded lines or gets confused by something else. Lane centering is great because it makes me a much more relaxed driver (which in turn is much safer). Lane centering also dont beep and bong at me all the fucking time and is easy to turn off/on when actually required
six3oo@reddit
THIS. Lane assist when it sees road works: "Your time has come. Into the nether we go."
DarkHelmet@reddit
It's basically useless where I live. Most roads have basically no lines between lanes, or will randomly have the old and new lines visible. It's more dangerous to have it on than off. If I'm on a nice highway it works, but there isn't one of those within at least a few hours drive. Some good sections but not an entire road
VOOLUL@reddit
Lane assist in every car I've had will just be overridden if you were serious about driving outside the lane. I don't think I'd be gently nudging the wheel in an emergency.
IguassuIronman@reddit
On the one hand, sure. On the other hand, my girlfriend's Trailblazer shits its pants if you're reversing within 6 feet of another car
levios3114@reddit
I think the whole point of those chimes it to be annoying to make sure you as a drive make them stop by doing what they ask like putting on your seatbelt
armchairracer@reddit
Problem is that modern cars beep for all sorts of things to the point that sometimes I don't even know what the car is mad about.
Shienvien@reddit
They will also beep when you're parked and not going anywhere, when you're on an ice road (as in on sea/lake/river) and need to remain unbucked (by law), when the damn things break, because of course they do...
Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit
Meanwhile the only time I ever forgot to fasten my seatbelt, the beep didn't start until I was on an on-ramp.
PRSArchon@reddit
It used to work when it was just the seatbelt chime. Modern cars beep when you go 3kmph over the speed limit, when you are going dead straight on the highway and you need to "steer" etc. If a modern car beeps at me i ignore it now.
kobrons@reddit
To be fair the over speed warning is usually a completely different tone and much quieter.
levios3114@reddit
Ok yeah those other ones are very annoying I do agree. I'll stick with my old car that only has seatbelt chimes
GrynaiTaip@reddit
Have you already been in a crash and got some brain damage?
I don't ever hear the seatbelt chimes. Guess how.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
I'm guessing you never put any inanimate objects on a seat, because I can assure you that putting a work backpack or even a shopping bag is enough to set the bongs off.
GrynaiTaip@reddit
Backpack doesn't trigger it in my car. Heavier stuff (like shopping bags) go in the back and I fasten the seatbelt for it. I don't want heavy stuff flying around the car if I have to brake hard for some reason.
Ecsta@reddit
They're just making up excuses imo, I've never been in a car where an item on the passenger seat triggers the seatbelt chime.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
I'm not the only person in this thread that has had this issue. This person has set it off with their handbag.
I can assure you that a backpack with a regular 13" Dell laptop in it (including the charging brick) and a few other small bits and bobs is enough.
Creative_Garbage_121@reddit
Oh my fucking god this, the amount and volume of sounds when I open the doors and unfasten my seatbelt in VW while having engine on is so fucking ridicoulous
Nhojj_Whyte@reddit
Ford too. Working on the engine? DOOR AJAR! HOOD AJAR! SEATBELT! God forbid you have any real issues because that'll A. add another alert to the stack of them and B. bury that alert at the bottom of the stack.
For example, having to retrain my TPMS sensors was a nightmare because the prompt for which wheel to do next was stuck in rotation with like 4 other "warnings"
-WallyWest-@reddit
Then they should put their seatbelt. They could even make the car go in limp mode after a few minutes.
biggsteve81@reddit
My car won't let you engage cruise control if the drivers seatbelt isn't fastened.
Shienvien@reddit
We have ice roads (as in, official an unofficial roads on frozen lakes) here in the winter, when you're not supposed to wear a seat belt.
And the sensors break. I shouldn't have to pay hundreds of euros since a little thing that goes beep broke. They're still broken on one of the cars next to my house, but thankfully, it just shows a light in the dash. Even with completely empty seats. Even when all seatbelts back there are bucked. It's just stuck on always triggered, regardless of the state of the seats or buckles.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
Am I meant to put a seatbelt on my work backpack as well?
ConPrin@reddit
Just put it in the boot or in the footwell?
kobrons@reddit
If your backpack is heavy enough to trigger the seat belt chime yes.
wwwhatisgoingon@reddit
Have you tried not putting it on the seat?
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
Sure, but it's an annoyance that wouldn't ordinarily exist if not for hyperactive, over-sensitive alarms.
It'd be one thing like the older cars where the seatbelt alarm was only on the driver's seat or was just a light, but they just bong at you know and encourage people to start looking at ways to disable the system (like those eBay dummy buckles you can buy, or simply leaving the belt buckled all the time with nobody in the seat).
404merrinessnotfound@reddit
Four-star is the new five star due to this systems stuff
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
An annoying ADAS suite is cheap, inbuilt crash protection hardware is expensive. None of that quote implies that this is a result of ADAS systems, and it instead implies that it's a result of building a car to a price. Which I'm not against, there's a market for 0-3 star cars built that way because of price or performance, but they've existed long before driver monitoring was mainstream.
lemlurker@reddit
Seatbelt chimes are not the enemy they do genuinely increase seatbelt use which improves crash safety.
Forcing back on ladmne departure emergency steering ect with co consideration of the quality of that system is idiotic. Forcing things set to be off back on every time you get in the car is stupid
gaius49@reddit
How is this surprising? Safety is one priority among many, and increasing safety comes with tradeoffs.
IsAnUltracrepidarian@reddit
they don’t even rate cats on safety anymore, just on features they like.
Car-face@reddit
People missing the point (and possibly not reading the article) don't get that the point is that manufacturers can choose not to aim for 5 stars - the point from the NCAP rep is that manufacturers are choosing to have dual ratings for a model, where the entry level might get 3 stars and the top spec will get 5.
It's a shift in approach that isn't being condemned by Euro NCAP, and in fact is explained as being a decision about prioritising safety rather than an outright score on budget models.
Basically: a 3 star car isn't "bad" or "compromised", it's better than the required safety but omits more expensive active systems that would have been required for a top score.
People using this as an excuse to shit on rating systems don't realise that the rating system explicitly is now designed to accept this, rather than punish it.
megacookie@reddit
I think there should just be two ratings to separate crash safety from crash avoidance tech. While there's nothing particularly wrong with a car getting just 3 stars for being structurally safe but missing tech, wouldn't a car that's the other way round (poor crash test, plenty of tech) score the same?
Captain_Alaska@reddit
There's 4 separate ratings on EuroNCAP and the lowest of which is the overall star rating.
Car-face@reddit
No, because they're basically doing exactly what you think they should be doing, but with slightly more granularity to separately grade distractions in the cabin and post-accident assistance as well as the two ratings you're describing.
All of this is literally already in Euro NCAP.
megacookie@reddit
Looks like this is all new for 2026, so that's definitely a step in the right direction. Not a fan of the mandated driver monitoring but it is what it is.
CorrectCombination11@reddit
Basically Ryanair but personal vehicle safety.
ATINYNEKO@reddit
But are ratings actually reflective of real life? A pickup truck hitting a 5 start subcompact car will not end up well regardless no?
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Kind surprise Chinese not sacrificing safety and rather go pricer for safety. They could just ignore safety and sell dirty cheap models because they’ve most price competitive.
Lighthouse_seek@reddit
The biggest thing that damaged Chinese vehicle popularity when they tried going to Australia like 20 years ago was safety so they are doing everything they can to not have that reputation
defenestrate_urself@reddit
Of all the cars released in 2025, Chinese brands (counting SMART 50% owned by Geely) occupy 11 of the top 15 places in Euro Ncap safety rating.
2025 Release Euro Ncap
kstetter@reddit (OP)
It's mostly premium brands from China for now
ag2f@reddit
No it's not. BYD, Geely and Leapmotor regularly earn maximum five star rating and these are definitely not premium brands.
kstetter@reddit (OP)
They all market themselves as premium, and aren't the worst quality cars for their prices
byliner97@reddit
Trust me, BYD and Geely really aren't premium. They are the Toyota and Honda of China and basically target the average buyers. Leapmotor is even more affordable and basically cheap crap. They are called half-price Li Auto in China for a reason.
tiagojpg@reddit
Makes sense they would partner up with Stellantis!
kstetter@reddit (OP)
There are even cheaper brands though, which is what we need
ag2f@reddit
They are not premium and are not market as premium, what marker are you at? BYD and Geely group have other premium brands, but the brand that carries the group name is as far from premium as it gets.
DarkHelmet@reddit
Geely and BYD even have a separate brand for their premium/luxury cars. BYD have Denza and Geely have Zeekr and (surprisingly) Volvo as luxury and premium brands. The main brand though? Yeah it's a normal car.
tiagojpg@reddit
BYD lengthened the Dolphin on purpose for the EU market, just so they could make it sit in the C segment. They at least market them as such, and are priced as such.
wwwhatisgoingon@reddit
Is it?
The premium manufacturers/brands (Xiaomi, Li Auto, Nio, Maextro, Avatr, Denza) don't or barely export.
kstetter@reddit (OP)
Omoda Jaecoo is marketed as premium, and BYD looks premium with most of their cars. Plus the interior / tech is pretty high quality.
Can't wait for the cheap brands in China to low ball the other Chinese brands in the west
byliner97@reddit
You really need to educate yourself more about Chinese brands if you are interested (although obviously why would anyone)
Chery's biggest overseas market used to be Russia and loads of third world countries. Always found it hilarious when I hear people who bought Omoda and Jaecoo thought they have got some nice Chinese cars that are great value for money. No they haven't, they basically bought whatever crap that became obsolete or Chery couldn't sell in their domestic market
kstetter@reddit (OP)
I already know they're considered to be on the low end in China
wwwhatisgoingon@reddit
My point is that in their home market these aren't the premium brands.
There's a whole tier or two above BYD we don't see in Europe.
kstetter@reddit (OP)
I know, but there are tiers below BYD in China too. There are a few brands trying to undercut their prices here and I'm all for it.
Lo2NL@reddit
Why? You want the cheapest EV possible?
kstetter@reddit (OP)
Very much so
Lo2NL@reddit
I don’t think a Chinese race to the bottom for passenger cars with huge batteries is wat we should want as society. Cars are not gadgets but huge machines that people depend on with their lives.
Imagine cheap EV’s from Aliexpress with faulty brakes and batteries that burst into flames like what is happening with their E-bikes and E-mopeds.
kstetter@reddit (OP)
An expensive brand, Toyota, infamously had faulty brakes not too long ago
Lo2NL@reddit
And? All car manufacturers have had some callbacks in the past. Doesn’t mean we should encourage extreme cost cutting in a race to the bottom.
kstetter@reddit (OP)
It was one of the largest recalls ever done from what I remember
ag2f@reddit
BYD and Omoda Jaecoo are not premium lol
kobrons@reddit
We got nio, xpeng and zeekr. And byd tries to sell for premium prices but somewhat failed with that and now slashed prices.
The real cheap ones we got was the dongfeng box and that didn't really end well.
derprunner@reddit
It’s about a mixed bag, at least here in the oceanic market. BYD has some premium options, but the Atto 1 and Dolphin make the old Excels feel premium. And MG, Cherry and Haval are bargain bin shitboxes.
ag2f@reddit
All Chery models tested in Australia have maximum score, what are you talking about?
derprunner@reddit
Build quality, reliability, materials, driving dynamics and the rest of the ownership experience
ag2f@reddit
Sure but that's not the point here, it's safety
derprunner@reddit
This thread in particular pivoted from safety when OP calling the exported brands premium. My disagreement is with that sentiment in particular.
ag2f@reddit
OP clearly doesn't know what he is talking about, agree with you on that.
kstetter@reddit (OP)
asbestos in cars isn't the best for lung safety
kstetter@reddit (OP)
Better interiors than most German cars somehow
derprunner@reddit
Agree to disagree there. I cross shopped my Polo (which is rough by German standards) directly with the Dolphin and it wasn’t even close. The BYD had a glorified light switch for its PRNDL equivalent.
boywiththethorn@reddit
The skateboard EV platforms with low and heavy LFP batteries are also naturally rigid.
Tramagust@reddit
EuroNCAP has a vendetta against Dacia. The cars are amazing but they don't pack active systems so EuroNCAP the org has a hate boner for them.
xstreamReddit@reddit
Of course the are not? A Dacia will never aim to attain the same safety level as an S-Class. It's always been a trade of between Safety, Cost and Weight.
simon-g@reddit
It’s EuroNCAP’s own fault. It was a necessary and valuable program in the late 90s and really highlighted the less safe cars. Getting the first 5 star car in a category was a big thing and safety got prioritised as cars got developed or refreshed.
Their problem is the need to constantly fiddle with the rules and ratings to keep giving a higher standard to aim for. You get ridiculous situations like the Fiat Grande Punto that managed 5 stars when new and was tested again towards the end of its (fairly long) life and scored zero. Consumers have stopped paying attention to safety ratings as they know everything on sale is plenty safe enough.
Price is a problem though. Certainly for UK the average new car price has completely outstripped average wages over the past couple of decades. No surprise that a lot of the market is looking at more basic cars and/or the better value Chinese stuff rather than the best EuroNCAP score.
UmaThurmish@reddit
there is no regard for safety for those outside the vehicle though.
oliverprose@reddit
EuroNCAP already measures that - look for the vulnerable road user (cyclists and pedestrians) section of the score
UmaThurmish@reddit
I know that they measure these things ,but there is no regard when it comes to regulations
Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit
Since the NHTSA here in the US is kinda a joke, the way I know a brand isn't trying is when they come out with a new model, and it doesn't ace all the IIHS's tests
Honestly, there are plenty of decent cars out there that I don't recommend due to poor-mid safety scores.
TrueSwagformyBois@reddit
Makes perfect sense. What is measured will be performed - until it’s too costly to keep profits where they need to be and doesn’t actually sell cars. If whole (costly) systems are required to go from 3 stars (well above minimum!) to 5, the testing and requirements are not consumer friendly.