As a firefighter, I’ve been to a single family dwelling structure fire where there was a significant amount of small arms ammunition going off, handgun and rifle rounds. It sounded like aggressive popcorn popping. We identified the room but never entered, for the duration of the incident. From what was left of the walls in that room, they had clear markings of where rounds impacted but they lacked the velocity to penetrate. As someone else said in an earlier comment. If they were to have hit us, we’d feel it but it wouldn’t cause any real damage. Obvious no one wants to have a negligent discharge or have a 1 in a million situation of dropping a round and having it discharge and potentially hitting someone. But from my experience from that incident, those cooked off rounds lacked any meaningful velocity to hurt anyone.
Yeah, the last time this video was posted (it’s posted all the time), someone was talking about how they’d throw live rounds into their camp fire as a kid. The rounds will go off, but they probably won’t hurt anyone.
That one stupid firefighting tv show that crosses over like two other shows that take place in Chicago had an episode where stored ammunition somehow gained sentience, magically gained velocity without a barrel, and aimed for vitals when cooking off. Painted the “culprit” as some dangerous crook (and even had the actor who played him act and dress like a junkie) just for owning ammunition. It’s like the plot originally had the guy as a drug addict who made full on tripwire gun traps which cooked off/ were set off from falling debris, before the director realized that demonized junkies instead of legal gun owners.
There is a Mythbusters episode where they use a .22 round(?) as a fuse and basically found it mostly harmless when it cooked off without a way of directing the energy.
They also did fire cooked off ammo, and even 50 BMG only left nicks in the plywood human-shaped targets. Might get minor cuts and scratches, but not lethal.
IIRC, Hatcher’s Notebook had a section (chapter?) where he did experiments on loose ammo set off in a fire (and maybe other scenarios). Basically, outside a chamber, ammo generally doesn’t have enough pressure to cause serious injuries. He also did experiments with shooting straight up and observing where & how the bullet struck the ground (chapter called “Bullets from the sky”).
It happens, but it's not dangerous, since there's no chamber to hold the pressure; it just pops like a firecracker and the bullet doesn't travel far or fast.
The brass is what you have to worry about. I know a guy years ago who used to balance shotgun shells on the end of an air rifle above his head and shoot to set them off.
One time he was doing it with a pistol caliber, 45lc I think. Piece of brass shrapnel got stuck in his hand pretty deep. Not deadly, but could have easily blinded him.
Saw that happen once. Was running departmental night fire qualifications and while officers were loading magazines between drills, we heard a "Pop!".
A guy had dropped a .45ACP round onto the concrete and it landed just right where a pebble dented the primer and discharged the round. The bullet travelled horizontally down the firing line and hit another guy's boot heel about eight lanes down. Damndest thing I've ever seen...wouldn't believe it if I hasn't witnessed it.
Bullets need a barrel to direct the energy of the burning gun powder in order for it to have enough velocity to be harmful. Without a barrel the energy of the gunpowder will just rupture the brass case instead of propelling the bullet being the heaviest componet of the whole cartridge.
No idea where to find it now but theres an old firefighter training video somewhere on the internet where they were just burning a bunch of boxes of ammo to show what the level of risk is if someone had a fire with a bunch of bullets in it. For most normal civilian ammo(i wouldn't try this with brandon herreras assortment of ammo or something) wearing eyepro and thick clothes was enough to be just fine standing a few feet away as full boxes of cartridges cooked off.
What I have seen, one of those things that I wouldn't believe unless I was there, is a belt of 7.62x51 blanks get dropped onto gravel and a primer got hit just right and a guy was close enough to have a pretty good size gash blasted into his leg.
I’m truly not trying to sound like a dumbass here, but has is a bullet going off from impacting the ground in-between two people in an uncontrolled direction not really dangerous?
I’m a safety nut. Like, annoyingly so. This seems like a pretty clear cut “oh shit” moment…
Is it because without the bullet traveling through the barrel there isnt enough velocity in a single direction generated to create the force necessary for any meaningful damage to be done to whatever the bullet hits?
Think about it this way. Typically ask that explosive energy is directly fully at accelerating the projections forward. But in open air, the energy is spread in every direction roughly equally, so the amount passing the projectile is probably reduced by like 90% at the least and probably even more than that. The momentum will be divided among the shell casing, the bullet, and so the little rocks that get moved too, in addition to the air etc. The actual velocity of the bullet will probably be at least 10% or lower vs what it normally would be when fired through a barrel. So if it is normally 1,000 ft/sec, it might be 100 ft/sec. It could probably make a mark on bare skin or hurt an unprotected eye. Just a rough estimate.
Correct. Without a chamber and barrel to capture the expanding gases, what happens is:
The primer ignites when it gets popped on a rock or whatever, as if it was being struck by the firing pin.
The primer ignites the first few “rows” of grains of gunpowder, sparking the chemical reaction that turns the nitrocellulose into hot gasses and carbon fouling. Up to this point, there is no difference between firing the round out of the chamber of gun and out in the open on the ground.
Here’s where the difference is: unsupported by the chamber walls, the pressure probably blows out the thin brass walls, possibly blows out the primer without the bolt face to support it, and definitely pops out the bullet, although without a barrel to capture all the gas behind it it’s maybe going one or two hundred feet per second at most, enough to hurt if it hits you but probably not even enough to break skin. It’d feel like getting hit with a rock halfheartedly launched out of a not-fully-stretched slingshot. The brass casing shards are more likely to cause minor damage if the case ruptures, as they are small jagged pieces of metal, but again, no serious injury unless you get a shard in the eye or something similar.
There's more danger from shrapnel from the casing than the bullet due to weight differences. The bullet moves a bit but the case moves a lot and is being ripped apart some. There's a few good YouTube videos of people showing this on slow-mo. The case saying shrapnel good potentially cut you but that's why we where eye protection.
Yarp. I see way more dangerous activity of people trying to catch their chambered round then letting it land on the ground. Few people have actually lost digits trying to cradle the round coming out of their slide and the slide closes and the ejector punctures the primer. RO for 10 years, and about 300 matches deep.
One of those things that’s has to have happened before and two dudes could never come to a conclusion on what actually happened, and now we finally have proof!
Professional-Pin-434@reddit
As a firefighter, I’ve been to a single family dwelling structure fire where there was a significant amount of small arms ammunition going off, handgun and rifle rounds. It sounded like aggressive popcorn popping. We identified the room but never entered, for the duration of the incident. From what was left of the walls in that room, they had clear markings of where rounds impacted but they lacked the velocity to penetrate. As someone else said in an earlier comment. If they were to have hit us, we’d feel it but it wouldn’t cause any real damage. Obvious no one wants to have a negligent discharge or have a 1 in a million situation of dropping a round and having it discharge and potentially hitting someone. But from my experience from that incident, those cooked off rounds lacked any meaningful velocity to hurt anyone.
Sensitive_Box_@reddit
Yeah, the last time this video was posted (it’s posted all the time), someone was talking about how they’d throw live rounds into their camp fire as a kid. The rounds will go off, but they probably won’t hurt anyone.
shit_poster9000@reddit
The brass shrapnel is still of concern, but yea.
That one stupid firefighting tv show that crosses over like two other shows that take place in Chicago had an episode where stored ammunition somehow gained sentience, magically gained velocity without a barrel, and aimed for vitals when cooking off. Painted the “culprit” as some dangerous crook (and even had the actor who played him act and dress like a junkie) just for owning ammunition. It’s like the plot originally had the guy as a drug addict who made full on tripwire gun traps which cooked off/ were set off from falling debris, before the director realized that demonized junkies instead of legal gun owners.
Guano-@reddit
https://saami.org/publications-advisories/sporting-ammunition-and-the-firefighter/
Atl_Potato@reddit
There is a Mythbusters episode where they use a .22 round(?) as a fuse and basically found it mostly harmless when it cooked off without a way of directing the energy.
doomrabbit@reddit
They also did fire cooked off ammo, and even 50 BMG only left nicks in the plywood human-shaped targets. Might get minor cuts and scratches, but not lethal.
DeafHeretic@reddit
IIRC, Hatcher’s Notebook had a section (chapter?) where he did experiments on loose ammo set off in a fire (and maybe other scenarios). Basically, outside a chamber, ammo generally doesn’t have enough pressure to cause serious injuries. He also did experiments with shooting straight up and observing where & how the bullet struck the ground (chapter called “Bullets from the sky”).
Smokey_tha_bear9000@reddit
A loaded gun in a house fire could be a real problem though
HeSureIsScrappy@reddit
It happens, but it's not dangerous, since there's no chamber to hold the pressure; it just pops like a firecracker and the bullet doesn't travel far or fast.
Maxxonry_Prime@reddit
Sometimes the brass travels farther.
FortunateHominid@reddit
The brass is what you have to worry about. I know a guy years ago who used to balance shotgun shells on the end of an air rifle above his head and shoot to set them off.
One time he was doing it with a pistol caliber, 45lc I think. Piece of brass shrapnel got stuck in his hand pretty deep. Not deadly, but could have easily blinded him.
Maxxonry_Prime@reddit
Never thought about it like that.
justrobdoinstuff@reddit
LoL I'd be a bit confused in the beginning too......
Pafolo@reddit
Ive seen a video where an empty casing bounced onto a box of ammo and set one off.
kwb166@reddit
Saw that happen once. Was running departmental night fire qualifications and while officers were loading magazines between drills, we heard a "Pop!".
A guy had dropped a .45ACP round onto the concrete and it landed just right where a pebble dented the primer and discharged the round. The bullet travelled horizontally down the firing line and hit another guy's boot heel about eight lanes down. Damndest thing I've ever seen...wouldn't believe it if I hasn't witnessed it.
Bullet76@reddit (OP)
That’s crazy lol. Did it hurt the guy that got hit?
Zumoshitekato@reddit
Bullets need a barrel to direct the energy of the burning gun powder in order for it to have enough velocity to be harmful. Without a barrel the energy of the gunpowder will just rupture the brass case instead of propelling the bullet being the heaviest componet of the whole cartridge.
Maxxonry_Prime@reddit
Sometimes the brass just flies off leaving the bullet close to the starting point, since the brass is usually much lighter than the bullet.
austinsutt@reddit
Very interesting. This makes so much sense but I’ve always had the misconception that it would still be as deadly. Thank you for this bit of wisdom
dv20bugsmasher@reddit
No idea where to find it now but theres an old firefighter training video somewhere on the internet where they were just burning a bunch of boxes of ammo to show what the level of risk is if someone had a fire with a bunch of bullets in it. For most normal civilian ammo(i wouldn't try this with brandon herreras assortment of ammo or something) wearing eyepro and thick clothes was enough to be just fine standing a few feet away as full boxes of cartridges cooked off.
SurviveAdaptWin@reddit
They were in that one Clive Owen movie :p
SanityLooms@reddit
First, dude should have bought a lottery ticket. Second, this was his lottery ticket.
scarletavatar@reddit
What I have seen, one of those things that I wouldn't believe unless I was there, is a belt of 7.62x51 blanks get dropped onto gravel and a primer got hit just right and a guy was close enough to have a pretty good size gash blasted into his leg.
Murphy's Law can be a bitch.
NumerousFootball@reddit
I had wondered in the past if dropping a bullet might fire it but did not research it and thought it was near impossible. Now I know!
SOSyourself@reddit
Interesting, but not really dangerous
Sudden_Publics@reddit
I’m truly not trying to sound like a dumbass here, but has is a bullet going off from impacting the ground in-between two people in an uncontrolled direction not really dangerous?
I’m a safety nut. Like, annoyingly so. This seems like a pretty clear cut “oh shit” moment…
Is it because without the bullet traveling through the barrel there isnt enough velocity in a single direction generated to create the force necessary for any meaningful damage to be done to whatever the bullet hits?
telephantomoss@reddit
Think about it this way. Typically ask that explosive energy is directly fully at accelerating the projections forward. But in open air, the energy is spread in every direction roughly equally, so the amount passing the projectile is probably reduced by like 90% at the least and probably even more than that. The momentum will be divided among the shell casing, the bullet, and so the little rocks that get moved too, in addition to the air etc. The actual velocity of the bullet will probably be at least 10% or lower vs what it normally would be when fired through a barrel. So if it is normally 1,000 ft/sec, it might be 100 ft/sec. It could probably make a mark on bare skin or hurt an unprotected eye. Just a rough estimate.
Paladyne138@reddit
Correct. Without a chamber and barrel to capture the expanding gases, what happens is:
The primer ignites when it gets popped on a rock or whatever, as if it was being struck by the firing pin.
The primer ignites the first few “rows” of grains of gunpowder, sparking the chemical reaction that turns the nitrocellulose into hot gasses and carbon fouling. Up to this point, there is no difference between firing the round out of the chamber of gun and out in the open on the ground.
Here’s where the difference is: unsupported by the chamber walls, the pressure probably blows out the thin brass walls, possibly blows out the primer without the bolt face to support it, and definitely pops out the bullet, although without a barrel to capture all the gas behind it it’s maybe going one or two hundred feet per second at most, enough to hurt if it hits you but probably not even enough to break skin. It’d feel like getting hit with a rock halfheartedly launched out of a not-fully-stretched slingshot. The brass casing shards are more likely to cause minor damage if the case ruptures, as they are small jagged pieces of metal, but again, no serious injury unless you get a shard in the eye or something similar.
1Crusty_Old_Man@reddit
The brass will generally go further than the bullet.
Sudden_Publics@reddit
Thank you for the thorough and science-based answer!
thelastczarnian@reddit
There's more danger from shrapnel from the casing than the bullet due to weight differences. The bullet moves a bit but the case moves a lot and is being ripped apart some. There's a few good YouTube videos of people showing this on slow-mo. The case saying shrapnel good potentially cut you but that's why we where eye protection.
BickenBackk@reddit
My rudimentary understanding is that, yes, there is not nearly enough energy created.
thelastczarnian@reddit
Yarp. I see way more dangerous activity of people trying to catch their chambered round then letting it land on the ground. Few people have actually lost digits trying to cradle the round coming out of their slide and the slide closes and the ejector punctures the primer. RO for 10 years, and about 300 matches deep.
combatinfantryactual@reddit
Sig brand ammo?
Sand_Trout@reddit
Happened on my submarine with a round in a .30 cal belt we were bringing down from the bridge.
The belt slipped off the arm of the guy carrying the machinegun down and hit just right on the primer.
BadTiger85@reddit
Must be that new ammo by Sig
dadebattle1@reddit
One of those things that’s has to have happened before and two dudes could never come to a conclusion on what actually happened, and now we finally have proof!
allisayisbeautiful@reddit
Wow