Look, I'm 67 and I've Been Riding E-Bikes for 8 Years. Can We Calm Down About Kids and E-Bikes?

[-]

ElfinTechnologies@reddit

Absolutely! So tired of ebikes and emotos getting confused.

[-]

The problem is that people on both ends are deliberately confusing them in order to get bikes they don't like banned. You have the auto industry and people who just hate all cyclists on one end, and on the other cycling elitists that hate anything that treats ebikes as transportation instead of purely fitness/recreation.

I've had people on this sub routinely try to claim anything over 20mph is a "motorcycle" (sometimes even over 15mph), that anything with a throttle is magically a "motorcycle" even if it's limited the same speed and power as other ebikes, or in some cases even that anything with a motor at all is a "motorcycle" (more a problem in places like r\/cycling).

[-]

rewt127@reddit

If you are on a fat tire ebike, using a throttle at 25mph. It honestly just feels like an even more flickable R3. And the crash statistics are indistinguishable from motorcycles.

Those are just facts.

[-]

SadisticPawz@reddit

"Illegally modified"

[-]

terraherts@reddit

EDIT: It feels like a lot of the "they arent motorcycles" crowd have either never ridden a motorcycle. Or only ridden 800lbs cruisers. The best comparison is probably a sumo. If you have ridden a DRZ4SM through town. It isnt radically different from riding an illegally modified spicy ebike.

What are you talking about man?

The motorcycles you're talking about go 60-90mph and are over 300lbs.

That's many times the speed and weight of even most modified ebikes or above-legal DIY setups.

[-]

sexmarshines@reddit

There's practically nothing left at 25mph on a normal ebike without a speed limiter enabled. You have to pedal for it to accelerate beyond that for most ebikes as the power has nearly topped out. The typical ebike also weighs 50-70lbs and has that amount of inertia.

An R3 has a top speed of 110mph at least. It's barely getting going at 25mph. It also weighs 370lbs. It would feel completely fucking different than a 60lb bike working at full power to keep up 25-30mph.

A DRZ4SM tops out near 90mph and weighs 340lbs. So not too different from the r3...

I have ridden gas mopeds, I had a GS500, SV650, and now XSR900. My lectric ebike Topping out at 30mph in the highest setting is entirely different. I've also spent a lot of time on old school road bikes in my city and all sorts of bigger bikes in other cities. Like honestly you have to be absolutely out of your mind to act like any of these motorcycles are more similar vehicles to an ebike than a bicycle.

A Surron, sure. But a typical Chinese import fat tire cargo or folding ebike..? Come on..

[-]

SadisticPawz@reddit

More categories is good. Gives the inbetween moped class room to breathe as an accessible and affordable method of transportation.

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

You have the auto industry

No, you don't. The auto industry doesn't care.

People just like to include them to try and make their arguments stronger because they are "bad".

[-]

terraherts@reddit

The auto industry doesn't care.

They absolutely do - they've lobbied against better cycling infrastructure for decades for starters. And against public and mass transit for even longer, often successfully.

[-]

sexmarshines@reddit

They care that investment prioritizes personal car oriented infrastructure.

And they care that the resolution to brewing situations like ebikes is to restrict them - never to cause funds to be diverted from personal vehicle infrastructure.

[-]

Even Seth Bikes has a vid on how they're not inherently bad, we just need stop calling them bikes. Even my state still has the law and charts on mopeds: throttle, motorized bicycle, goes 25+, limited use, must have plates, doesn't require a motorcycle permit.

[-]

terraherts@reddit

I mean on the motor part: i agree we shouldn't call hulking ebikes motorcycle, I disagree on letting them be unregistered and use bike rules, they're just mopeds.

All ebikes have motors. If you're calling all ebikes mopeds, that's just ridiculous and would mean you're part of the problem I'm talking about.

The legal language been staring at us right in the face, as mopeds have been so rare since WW2.

Because they were regulated nearly out of existence, a mistake we should not be eager to repeat.

Has to be pedaled: ebike Has a throttle, can keep up with 30mph traffic, uses moto tires, but has pedals: a limited use motorized biycle with pedals. A moped, for short

The moped definition needs to be updated to allow up to at least 35mph. The 30mph limit makes them almost completely impractical as mopeds as that's not fast enough to keep up with city traffic in a lot of the US.

[-]

neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit

They weren't regulated out of existence. No license necessary, just basic collision insurance and a plate.

Like you literally just said: they were impractical as automobiles and infrastructure advanced. They're still legal, just not on highways; in my state they must let faster traffic pass.

Just like the Teenage Mutant Electric Bikes of modernity: they're too big and fast for bikes, but too slow for anything beyond a street.

[-]

terraherts@reddit

They weren't regulated out of existence

And yet I can count on my hands the number of actual gas mopeds I've seen in the last decade.

Like you literally just said: they were impractical as automobiles and infrastructure advanced

That's not what I said. Mopeds were once more common many decades back, and they still are common in other countries.

The problem is the US's higher speed limits and worse infrastructure, and upping the speed limit for mopeds is a reasonable compromise to get more people out of cars that are significantly more dangerous.

No license necessary, just basic collision insurance and a plate.

Most places require licensing for mopeds that I've seen, and/or are talking about requiring licensing for e-mopeds.

[-]

neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit

I mean they can cause a LOT of damage, just like emotos. So regs and insurance. Most are written in blood.

They're common for the same uses of emopeds- DUIs, poverty, handicaps, fun, and teenagers. NYS has a three class system, basically. A honda cub needs a moto license. A 20CC an auto repair student fixes up for practice, not so much.

And seths vid that i referenced earlier- pretty good arguments:

https://youtu.be/v_M3gMfK5B4?si=25bImQbgAktkJilg

[-]

neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit

Like boom. Swap the gas for a battery and you have 80% of commuter ebikes. The ones that come into my shop genuinely use motorcycle tires and weigh as much as a pitbike

[-]

TriangleChains@reddit

This is an interesting take. I support your strategy. I hate the word hijacking that happens these days.

They did it with AI. I'm a computer engineer and I hate that we call LLMs AI. Marketing hype.

[-]

drumdogmillionaire@reddit

It’s intentional. E-bikes hurt the bottom line for oil companies so into the naughty bin they all go.

[-]

lFightForTheUsers@reddit

Yup. If ExxonMobil could twist the mayor's arm enough to enact a "shoot on sight" policy for ebike riders, they would.

Okay that's maybe a little hyberbole, but i do think Mayor Whitmire would get a little chub at the idea of a stop & frisk policy for anyone not commuting in a car or truck.

[-]

TurboBunny116@reddit

You must be new here.

[-]

SPNKLR@reddit

The problem is unregistered e-motorcycles.

[-]

Robustusmaximus@reddit

Can I also add that registration is not easy for these e-motos like the Surron Ultra Bee. If people could register these and have then treated like scooters or e-motos people would be less inclined to ride them in bike lanes where the legality makes the usage ambiguous for many.

Government is as much the problem here along with irresponsible parents and kids.

Contrast those two options which are both only allowed to be that way on account of the lobbying of big oil to keep cars more usable than alternatives to instead profits....

And imagine, if you will, a world where we built the infrastructure to allow for faster light weight vehicle transportation options which would be far safer and cheaper than cars?

[-]

HueyBluey@reddit

Where would you put e-bikes with a throttle?

Most e-bikes in North America are not mid motor but rear hub with a throttle. So you can pedal, but can also ride it like a motorcycle on throttle only.

[-]

AdBoring4472@reddit

An ebike with a throttle, that is actually within the legal definition of an ebike, is limited to 20mph maximum speed. This is a class 2 ebike, provided it has functioning pedals and ideally, pedal assist as well.

Comparing class 2 ebikes as "like a motorcycle in throttle only" is an over simplification, and it would be more apt to compare it to a class 1 ebike with throttle capability. Ultimately, the issue is not with the throttle, it is the speed first and foremost. Detractors see people speeding around on e-motos, going 25mph, 35mph, and faster and equate these as 'ebikes'. The fact that this is often being done without pedaling, gives detractors an easy target for the problem, the throttle.

While I think a lot of traditional bicycle folks, being somewhat elitist, recoil at idea that you could get around on a bicycle without pedaling, the reality is that the presence of a throttle is one of the key aspects that supports wider adoption of bicycles as transportation in the US. Hindsight being 20:20, I would have preferred the throttle operation to have been a bit more restricted on legal ebikes, something like 15mph on class 2 and 20 mph on class 3. It would have better protected the delineation between legal ebikes and motorized vehicles (legal or illegal for road use), while also creating more safety and approachability for younger riders.

[-]

rewt127@reddit

Tbh I do not believe ebikes in the form of an anyone can buy this should have a throttle.

If you want a throttle on a 2 wheeled vehicle, reguardless of the speed. You need a motorcycle license, and get it plated.

I think the idea of a pedal assist to 20mph bicycle that can use alternative paths and open up alternative transit options. While having a 50mph capable throttle would be fantastic.

But obviously that wouod require a moto license.

[-]

terraherts@reddit

Tbh I do not believe ebikes in the form of an anyone can buy this should have a throttle.

Why? Policy should be about safety, not your subjective personal hangups.

If you want a throttle on a 2 wheeled vehicle, reguardless of the speed. You need a motorcycle license, and get it plated.

A class 2 is both legal and has literally the exact same speed and power restrictions as a class 1: 20mph and 750W.

That's not fast enough to be a moped, let alone a motorcycle, by any remotely sane definition, and if it is, then so is a class 1.

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

Tbh I do not believe ebikes in the form of an anyone can buy this should have a throttle.

Throttles are not the problem, so there is not point in focusing on them.

[-]

Ok-Cucumber9187@reddit

The give speed in exchange of torque, or that’s my headcanoon. Allot of this e bikes could do with a lover max speed but more power in the motors. But they can’t do that with out creating other safety issues or concerns they give you speed. Idk. I’ve been riding many e vehicles for years. I still love my e longboard, for here in Seattle. If it was a dual motor or had higher stats it would of been great. But I dead ass trigger multiple speed traps on it goin downhill cause it was the only vehicle where the motor wouldn’t limit my max speed output. That bitcj had no torque tho. Horrible up hill, great for flats and downhill. And I could still push on it. It had brakes and depending on how I face the board it had front or rear brakes…

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

Ultimately, the issue is not with the throttle, it is the speed first and foremost.

Right. If you can lazily pedal and go 45 mph, that's the problem.

Not that you can use a throttle to eventually hit 20 mph.

[-]

WisconsinGB@reddit

I can get my aventon up to 28-30 by peddling, the throttle tops out at 20. That's really all the faster I need the throttle. I wish I could get it to like 35-40mph peddling, but im a grown ass man who has been driving something or the other since I was like 12. But either way I love that bike.

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

I wish I could get it to like 35-40mph peddling,

Find a really big hill!

[-]

Ok-Cucumber9187@reddit

Tried but unlike regular road bikes the motor kinda governs the max speed I can go. I’ve hit 45 but I know I can go faster.

[-]

Jessica_T@reddit

That's how my ebike works. I really only used the throttle to get off the line faster at stoplights without having to shift all the way up and down.

[-]

WisconsinGB@reddit

Agreed, once in a while hit the throttle to just cruise. One time I was biking up the Homer spit and there were two eagles coasting right at head level and the throttle was perfect to just cruise with them for about 2 miles before they split. But yah, I like the peddle power.

[-]

KatakanaTsu@reddit

Where would you put e-bikes with a throttle?

The "legal" throttle e-bikes generally top out at 20 mph, e-motos can reach highway speeds. That's a big difference.

[-]

Ok-Cucumber9187@reddit

But not every model is highway speed. It depends on the voltage plus amp and also. Most are ad at about 50pmh with a 30° slope grade. At least for Wa anything above 20mph should be register. But respectfully I can go faster then 40mph on a regular long board with big enough wheels. And I can definitely pedal faster then that on a fix gear bike…

[-]

Fluid-Wrongdoer6120@reddit

I see no issue with the throttle in itself. As others have said, on a true e-bike the throttle will typically only get you to 20 mph. It wasn't a feature I sought out, but my ebike has one, and I use it more than I thought I would... For starting from a dead stop and for help going up the many hills in Western PA, without constantly having to fidget with the assist level.

And hell, I'm all for things that encourage people to get their butts outside, even if they hit a trail and ride the throttle the entire time.

The problem becomes when it reaches unsafe top speeds that aren't fit for multi-purpose trails and can't be remotely reached just by pedaling. They really need to just treat those e-motos like a vehicle, requiring license, registration, insurance, etc. The requirements shouldn't be less than a motorcycle just because it happens to be battery powered and have some nearly non-functional pedals thrown on.

[-]

The_Nepenthe@reddit

Throttles are key in my opinion, I personally don't like riding something where the motors control is controlled by the pedals, I guess it's fine for commuting but recently I was in the snow and being able to independently control the pedals and the throttles definitely stopped some crashes.

[-]

clearshot66@reddit

And their max speed is 20 with most Americans maxing at 15 because their weight.

If you’re just here to complain you’re wasting your time. Go talk to your local politicians.

[-]

DrSendy@reddit

90% of that is the media being clueless or looking for an angle.

[-]

KaboodleMoon@reddit

But they put pedals on it so it's a bike right? -.-

[-]

hrudyusa@reddit

I 100% agree.

[-]

BeSiegead@reddit

Yes, yes, yes …

But … additional problems …

- inexperienced riders get (legit) e-bikes and are hitting speeds beyond their capacity :: don’t know answer to this

- jerks … but we have far more dangerous jerks driving 3 ton death machines :: some tool for accountability / sanctioning?

- legislators acting in reaction who have no experience on e-bikes

Btw, the medical community reports more and more serious injuries with e-bikes compared to traditional. If we account for the emotos / non street legal being in the count and less experienced rider element, I wonder how much of that increase is accounted for?

[-]

rovingdan@reddit

Good point Unfortunately cars got bigger into SUV’s and then heavy electric cars but the drivers got worse. Same is happening to bikes.

[-]

[-]

stormdelta@reddit

Isn't it a hobby to help keep fit?

No, and it's thinking like this that's part of the problem.

Thequiet01@reddit

It was a genuine question. Many of the same issues apply in terms of identifying hazards and rate of closure of oncoming traffic and so on. Sure you can't harm as many people with a bike as you can with a car, but if someone were to hit and kill a cyclist who popped out in front of them because the cyclist didn't see them coming, that'd be plenty harmful to that person who now has to live with having killed someone. Plus, you know, the person is dead - but they can make their own choices about how much they want to risk that. I'm just not as cool with a lifetime of trauma for someone else being dismissed as no big deal because it isn't obvious physical damage like you might have from a car on car accident.

[-]

stormdelta@reddit

You're acting like the person is blind when they only have one eye - a lot of states don't even stop someone from driving with one eye, let alone using a bike.

Tone-Deft@reddit

My neighborhood has a much bigger problem with cars and old cranks that complain about e-bikes. I know of more kids hit by a car or chased by a crank in an SUV. Kids doing the same they would be doing on a regular pedal bike.

The irony for the old cranks was that bystanders called the cops on him as he was trying to enforce imaginary laws that exist in his imagination.

People forget that pedal bikes can go quite fast too.

[-]

Mysterious_Lesions@reddit

The problem is that many are also saying that just having a throttle should ban the bike. I have a class 1 with a throttle but I use it for a kickstart going from a stop. The e-bike is heavy so when the light turns green, I get a little starting boost via the throttle even though I always use pedal assist.

As OP says, it's not about throttle or pedals. It's about the power and maximum speed.

[-]

apvasl@reddit

OP, I am 42 years old and have been riding e-bikes for 6 years. Yes I see the distinction getting lost in the noise. This morning I egged on the police of the city next to the city I live in to threaten me with fines I can’t pay and confiscation just for riding my eBike on the streets of that city. These kids are getting it f***ed up for all of us e-cyclists so that we can’t use them for transportation anymore.

I don’t have a driver’s license and will be LIVID if I must get rid of my eBike just because I won’t be driving a car to justify spending all the time and money it will cost to get a license. I agree with enforcement of existing laws, but no new, more restrictive laws. I never wanna get told it’s newly illegal for me to ride my e-bike the way I always have, following the rules of the road.

any adult knows not to give a child any of these things

Pep2385@reddit

Then start lobbying for that. I have seen dozens of these threads bitching about infrastructure and law, but I have not seen a single one trying to form a lobbying group to actually get laws passed that favor all of you.

On the road.

[-]

WillShakeSpear1@reddit

That’s true only if registered as a motor vehicle since their motor exceeds 750w

[-]

thirtynation@reddit

Which many, MANY emotos are.

[-]

hashtag-horny@reddit

Because it’s a motorcycle. Not a bicycle.

[-]

thirtynation@reddit

Yeah duh.

[-]

hashtag-horny@reddit

Your “MANY” felt like “they’re not supposed to”.

[-]

thirtynation@reddit

What?

[-]

snoogins355@reddit

A few idiots ruin it for everyone

[-]

pbblueroom@reddit

I honestly don’t think that many kids are getting hurt compared to the amount of kids on e-bikes. I get a gaggle of kids rolling down the street at 25mph looks annoying to a Karen in a car, but at least they’re outside getting some exercise.

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

I don't think many people care if they are on the street.

I think even you need to settle down. I grew up with dirt bikes and they are no different than an e-moto in terms of danger, although much quieter. Also, gas motos are heavier. The real danger of injury is sharing the road with aging, angry old people driving cars. Sometimes stupid happens in both sides of that equation. I suspect it’s spread fairly evenly.

I think a lot of old people just like to rant about how much better they were as kids and how the world is ending. Probably think rap is making their grandkids sterile as well.

I’d have loved to ride one of these when I was 12. If they had them then and I could have afforded it, I most certainly would have. Let’s admit that and just advocate for safety and not call our youth a bunch of hoodlums.

[-]

KostyaFedot@reddit

I'm less than 67. No grandchildren, but children.

One thing I really don't understand is why 13 yo is riding way too fast e-bicycles.

Maybe where is some reason in particular case with OP.

But kids don't really need e-bicycles.

[-]

Thequiet01@reddit

Kids can be disabled too. I’d rather (in theory) give my disabled kid a speed limited e-bike so he can keep up with his friends at a reasonable speed than have him stuck home not able to participate and lose good friendships.

[-]

KostyaFedot@reddit

I never seen disabled kids on e-bicycle. But on tricycles.

I remember chatting with LIB owner and parents walking in with obesity affected kid, parents asking for e-bicycle.

Politics does not care for distinction nor the finer details.

Lawmakers see problem. Lawmakers get a ton of complaints. Lawmakers seek the easiest and most cost effective solution while looking good to most voters.

The easiest and most cost effect solution is blanket bans unfortunately, and it make it look like they're doing something to the older scared folks.

Yes, you could get police officers to simply patrol and enforce the current laws and speed limits. That's a simple obvious solution, isn't it? But who's gonna pay for it? How are you going to get cops to do more work that they don't want to? How much time is wasted for patrols and enforcement that is better spent somewhere else?

Cops in my city don't even stop cars going through red lights anymore...

There is a systemic problem with how our society works and unfortunately we have work with it or around it.

its stupefying as it is an easy designation to make and remember

its almost like there is some willful ignorance on the part of legislatures (what a surprise)

[-]

Johnny_Rango18@reddit

Roads in America are designed, engineered, built and maintained for large, mechanically powered vehicles and motorcycles(sorta). Bicycles and e bikes have no place at all - the bike isn't registered, the rider has no license. They are hazards to everyone. Register and license anyone that rides/drives anything with wheels, period.

[-]

Turd_Ferguson_____@reddit

You’re emphasizing everyone’s point here. E-bikes are fine. But legislators are conflating e-bikes and e-motos and because they are conflating the two, all of us responsible e-bike riders are getting genuinely concerned about how we are going to be unjustly regulated because law makers once again don’t understand the nuances of the things they are trying to regulate.

[-]

burmerd@reddit

Also the problem is cars… “newly liberated children increasingly struck by SUVs while exploring their neighborhoods. City to ban e-bikes.”

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

Do you have any evidence that increased use of e-bikes have resulted in more kids struck by SUVs?

I’m right with you sir. I’m 67 as well and we need to make sure our regulators don’t knock our safe and sane electric assist bikes to the curb with arbitrary and ill considered laws. I’ve got a 750 watt bike, but I also weigh 240 lbs. A 250 watt motor isn’t going to help me much on a long hill. We need to police behaviors and understand the difference between e-bikes and e motos.

gif

People love to complain about e-bikes sighting safety but as soon as you mention adding cycling infrastructure those same people suddenly don’t care about safety.

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

but as soon as you mention adding cycling infrastructure those same people suddenly don’t care about safety.

[Citation needed]

Pretending that the problem doesn't exist is not a valid solution.

I'm all for expanding cycling infrastructure - but if kids are blasting their surrons at 40 mph down the expanded cycling infrastructure you haven't addressed the problem.

[-]

Zealousideal-Can1112@reddit

The real problem is cars. Has been for years. All this handwringing about e-bikes is just performative. Over 1 million people per year killed in car accidents.

[-]

AlmiranteCrujido@reddit

Indeed, you've made it worse for every law-abiding cyclist.

[-]

Electrical_Tof@reddit

Cause then the primary mode of transportation might be affected! And they can afford this as a secondary recreational leisure activity rather than advocate for their own access to better choices...

There are many reasons but, as with most things related to children, there's a right time and maturity level to introduce risks.

[-]

Hortos@reddit

I’m sure there was tons of scientific analysis and study done for this and not a bunch of old people and some Karens who have never ridden an e-bike ass pulling a number out of a hat that you’re going to justify to yourself because it also ‘feels’ right.

[-]

pdf17@reddit

I’d be confident in your statement in the past. I ask haven’t read any of the current legislation and probably won’t. Yet it seems to me that much of what I hear is based on emotion or a one time example and I haven’t heard studies being referenced. No “four out of five dentists…” type of statements, either.

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

I ask haven’t read any of the current legislation and probably won’t.

Then don't be so stupidly ignorant?

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

I’m sure there was tons of scientific analysis and study

Yes. There was.

The arrogance, ignorance, and complete lack of curiousity in your post is really disturbing.

You dont' know shit about how municipalies do things, and so you're covering for that with the brain dead "ITs a BUncH oF BoOMer KAreNS".

Being lazy and ignorant is a choice.

[-]

honestjake1@reddit

municipalities do not understand the problem. so you can’t use their action as justification that there was a problem to begin with

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

municipalities do not understand the problem.

[-]

planet_roy22@reddit

This topic (like much of the world’s issues) requires a more nuanced conversation- appreciate your well articulated thoughts. Just need to figure out how to get that down to a 1.5 sec sound bite…

[-]

Z08Z28@reddit

As a bike mechanic you know that a class 1 or 2 ebike is far from a regular bike that just provides a little push up a hill. They are powerful. I recently rode a Pivot ebike up a single track class 4 climb that I climb dozens of times per year. I left it in the low power mode and I CRUSHED my best ever time and my max heart rate was 140. I put it in medium power and climbed the trail again and my HR didn't go above 120 as I was laughing at how absurdly easy it was and fast I was going--on a rocky class 4 climb.

I also think it's a waste of money that any parent would buy their kid an ebike. They are kids, kids are like an Energizer bunny and need an outlet for energy.

[-]

Zestyclose-Point2006@reddit

Well said bro, but unfortunately saying that on Reddit just isn't going to cut it when the government decides to come after Us, the ones who ride conservatively following the rules will be the ones too suffer and frankly I don't wanna wait untill it's too late to strongly suggest that an age restriction should be enforced when riding and or purchasing a tier 2 and above class e bike Thoughts...?

[-]

farmallnoobies@reddit

No. And don't even get me started on those old farts on them

[-]

boshbosh92@reddit

Right. The issue isn't ebikes if they're actually ebikes.

The issue is surrons and other electric dirt bikes disguised as ebikes. Nobody needs to go 39 mph on a bike trail where the single mom of 2 is pushing her baby in a stroller and has her toddler trying to ride a bike next to her.

The real problem, though, is just a lack of respect for others. Doing 40mph on a sidewalk. Riding on the sidewalk period tbh. I do it sometimes, but I always give foot traffic priority and the right of way. And I never exceed like 12 mph even if there's nobody on the sidewalk. If people just cared more about others safety, we wouldn't have this issue.

[-]

Sidewalks sure maybe, but 15mph on a shared path isn't really that fast. Most cyclists casually riding will go close to that. In fact that's the posted speed limit on my shared path that goes through dense neighborhoods.

[-]

ConversationNo5409@reddit

The problem is the parents who buy the kids these e-bikes by just adding they're card to the payment on checkout without looking into, or doing research on what they are actually buying.

[-]

Blitqz21l@reddit

While I agree, theres a couple of unaddressed issues. 1) ebikes makes a lot things accessible for kids and most dont have a great grandpa to teach them the rules of the road. Thus you get kids that no idea about how to move around in traffic and how much danger they are in from cars. Esp if they don't understand how traffic works. 2) the other issue is laws are much much easier to pass if you can demonize a segment of the population as well as require nothing from the majority - meaning drivers.

But I agree most laws that have been put into law in states and cities will little too effect on cyclist, ebikers, pedestrians, etc... because the biggest problem is cars and drivers. In fact, those laws will likely exacerbate the issue and further divide because drivers will feel more entitled against ebikes and feel there is something wrong with all ebikes and ebikers. Its essentially racism without skin color.

[-]

Sonny-Showers@reddit

See, I’m in a place where they’re making restrictions under the banner of safety too.

I’ve talked directly to Leo that have stopped me, had friendly conversation & r a n g e and capability is what’s going to take a hit (where I am) for anything that isn’t a class 3.

It’s going to punish kids for already doing something illegal, yes.

It’s going to punish commuting adults for going electric, because now your range has been legally nerfed.

You now need a car, because whatever PEV you bought is probably illegal based on range or speed.

Kiss commuting timely, safely and getting out of jams quickly goodbye.

[-]

AlmiranteCrujido@reddit

The problem isn't e-bikes. The problem is people buying those ridiculous 45 mph electric motorcycles with pedals glued on just so they can call them "e-bikes" and skip registration. Those aren't bikes. Those are death traps being sold to kids.

Absolutely; it's the emoto crowd who's ruining it for everyone.

Unfortunately, the lack of enforcement around the existing laws has created an over-reaction. It's neither surprising, nor new to ebikes.

[-]

Fuzzy_Tough_26@reddit

Think about it do you really think anyone cares about human casualties ? If this was a case why start war ? Why are there millions of hungry people, homelessness and poverty.
It’s not about the safety of people it’s a lot bigger agenda to control and monitor using AI device for speed control and such

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

Think about it do you really think anyone cares about human casualties

Yes. Everyone was upset when the 14 year old killed the 75 year old by running over him with his e-moto.

It’s not about the safety of people it’s a lot bigger agenda to control and monitor using AI device for speed control and such

No, it's about the safety of people.

If this was a case why start war

Why have speed limits when there is war?

[-]

Fuzzy_Tough_26@reddit

Do you still believe in the mask and vaccine ?💉

[-]

Fuzzy_Tough_26@reddit

Who sold those bikes though? The e-bikes who prohibited them?
Don’t you realize it’s all by design they create the problem and the same people who created the problem comes up with the idea , plan a solution

[-]

Where I live we don’t have park police, it’s just the local city or county police officers. There is one officer that rides a motorcycle on the greenway trail on the weekends when it’s crowded, but I’ve never seen him inspecting e-bikes. Our local trail has a speed limit of 20mph. If you’re riding at 15mph, I don’t see why it matters if your motor is 750w or 7500w as long as you’re obeying the speed limits and giving pedestrians right of way.

[-]

Soltea@reddit

There are A LOT of ebikes that are illegal and not the extreme electric motorcycles. This very sub is FULL of them.

Oh, please, are you kidding me? I live in the Bay Area. Very rich area. The well off kids are the main problem. Nobody has ever told them no, and it definitely shows. I know you are trying really hard to blame it on other “cultures”, but the utopia you’re trying to describe as your neighborhood does not exist.

[-]

toaster404@reddit

My word, what is wrong with your parenting and school systems out there? I'm hardly in a utopia. I love the people - mainly the Hispanic workers who make the Stepford Wife lifestyle feasible. The maids and nannies and workmen. They're great. The kids are generally very nice until they hit high school, then they get a bit "wild" - which isn't really anything. The only mildly risky e-machines I've seen are kiddie cars escaping briefly onto the road and a few modest power scooters.

While you accuse me of lying about my neighborhood (https://maps.app.goo.gl/4D4q3yiaJ9iSfkVg7) with its clear oppressive class structure, you describe an urban or suburban hell of Mad Max youth out of control. I'm unfamiliar with that.

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm certainly not blaming other cultures. They're just different. The rural south is different. I would sometimes see kids on little motorcycles tearing down country roads. Mainly a problem for themselves. In Chicago, I'd see gangsters in cars, but never on bicycles. Now in DC proper I've seen hooligan motorized vehicle gangs, as I did in Chicago, but never bicycle or eBike gangs or hooligans! The whiners here complain about eBike and mini-motorcycle delivery people, scofflaws. But they're just trying to make a living.

Must be a lot of spare time out there and poor upbringing. Come visit, take a look around. Fly into DCA, get the metro downtown, walk around. Cruise some neighborhoods. Visit Dupont Circle. Go to Old Town ALX, drop me a line, I'll show you my suburban utopia! We've got a country club between here and the river, a nice cycling route along the river and elsewhere.

Seriously, you might have your eyes opened by traveling. The Bay area impressed me as somewhere not to go back to, but that was decades ago. Seems it's descended. Video your ESCAPE from the BAY AREA CYCLE THUGS!

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

with its clear oppressive class structure,

Oh Jesus.

We will all stipulate that you are a righteous person with correct beliefs, so you can stop virtue signaling.

[-]

Primary_Dimension470@reddit

Boomer giving unsolicited advice? Again? I’m shocked

[-]

WookieSuave@reddit

Many cities have wattage and speed limits, but unless someone is doing something super stupid and s police officer sees them, they're pretty hard to enforce.

[-]

thewimsey@reddit

We have speed limits on MUPs; occasionally they are enforced.

(They predate e-bikes; there was a problem with road bikers using the MUP as a training area and riding 25 mph. Sometimes in a mini peloton).

[-]

madryan@reddit

For every 10 people who ride past me on ebkes responsibly on my commute that I don’t notice there’s always that one guy who can’t get a driver’s license anymore or whatever who’s a total idiot

[-]

jms1228@reddit

The news media likes to glorify accidents & teenagers riding recklessly. The reality is that there are thousands of us that ride them responsibly everyday. It’s unfortunate that the laws will eventually make it impossible for us to ride anywhere anymore.

[-]

Electrical_Tof@reddit

How many people can have their lives ruined by the results of big oil lobbying to shape our actions before something is done about it?

[-]

RedGobboRebel@reddit

Don't know anyone who's flat out against kids on Class 1 bikes. Any restrictions there are just overreactions/oversimplifications to kids on the eMotos. I agree that kids can be responsible on Class 1. Wish there were more kid friendly eBikes available. Ones that parents could PIN lock down to even slower speeds.

[-]

Comprehensive_Ad1363@reddit

The industry as well as the law need to use the term “e-moto” to designate any bike that is higher than class 3. Too many companies hide behind loop holes and “off-road” settings. It gives all e-bikes a bad name, and then lawmakers come in and denigrate all e-bikes as two wheeled menaces. Not saying the Class 4 60mph e-motos don’t have a place, but letting companies throw a useless set of pedals and a single speed freewheel on a 4000w motor…that’s not a bicycle.

[-]

Electrical_Tof@reddit

If only we had the infrastructure to make those choices safer instead of attempting to be regulate the choice to fit the infrastructure which checks notes big oil lobbied to be created as it is to pressure the choice of cars despite the risk to safety

[-]

Synical-Gaming@reddit

Tell that to the automotive industry and the politicians they lobby... and the mainstream media financially connected to the automotive industry...

It’s sad when an ebike rider hurts himself or dies. It’s sad when a skateboarder does.

But when a skateboarder loses control at speed it’s ultra rare to ruin an innocent persons life or take it like the emotos can. And they run in gangs too. It’s a social problem in some spots. Not unlike the guys on quads in Baltimore blocking highways to stunt

[-]

Quercus408@reddit

The problem isn't the kids, it isn't the ebikes (the quasi-motorcycles are a whole other story), it's the parents.

Case in point, your mentorship of your grandchildren has taught them proper safety and handling when riding bikes of any speed. Not all parents do that, and therein lies the problem. Whether it's an ebike or a sports car, you can't just hand an unlearned adolescent the keys and tell them to go have fun.

And until the day that kid turns 18, it is and should be the parent who is held accountable for the actions of their kids, or their mistakes.

We need age limits, and we need legislation that prevents these companies from letting every bike get jailbroken into going ridiculous speeds.

[-]

I’m no expert but I just Googled and it appears, regardless of how safe and rule abiding you’ve taught them to be, that the Highway Code says they have to be 14 plus?

I’d be starting or supporting a government petition to change the rules if that’s the case as I completely agree with you.

More power begets more responsibility. That's the bottom line. There are some people that will abuse any bit of power they have. There needs to be checks and balances. I'm talking about any powered vehicle, not politics.

If I were a teenager I would have loved to own one today's high powered e-rides. I get it more power, more fun. As a teen all I had access to was my good old BMX, we did stupid stuff with them. But we could only get into so much trouble because we were limited to speeds that the human body could generate or how steep the hills were.

Many kids are not going to self regulate, if the parents don't regulate them, then we get the situation we're now in. What's the solution? We're working towards that now. Will the harshness of the solution over correct? Probably.

That's kind of society we live in and our modus operandi. Go to the extreme, then swing back the pendulum the other way. One upmanship exacerbated by social media doesn't help.

One of my biggest issues is kids riding ACOUSTIC bikes on the bike path.
They jump off and leave their bike cross-wise on the path, they do
sudden veers and stops and ride in groups with other kids, all trying
to showoff doing stupid things.

I can't imagine what it would be like if they had ebikes.

Children should have to be over 21 years old to ride an electric bike.

[-]

Emotos are essentially any big MX bike company’s 125, but electric. They are not not illegal. The manner in which people ride them are. They are sold as an off road bike.

And they’re not death traps. They’re powerful machines for experienced riders. But I follow the law so I have a nothing to worry about.

Pedals…..yeah. No.

[-]

FernandoTheRN@reddit

Same with scooters... All these people complained about scooters and kids and now it's banned in my town, even for adults... 😅

[-]

byoshin304@reddit

The problem is giving kids an emoto that goes up to 40mph. Would you give your grandkids one of those?

[-]

viking_linuxbrother@reddit

Ebikes are evil. Its not the kids fault but they are enabling evil so we must shut them down hard.

Thats the message unfortunately.

[-]

BoringBob84@reddit

This:

The problem is people buying those ridiculous 45 mph electric motorcycles with pedals glued on just so they can call them "e-bikes" and skip registration.

... causes this:

Anyone else seeing this distinction getting lost in the noise?

I believe it is obvious that the people with these motorcycles are intentionally blurring the distinction so that they can have the privilege of bicycles and the performance of motorcycles without the responsibilities of motorcycles. The resulting conflicts and injuries are not surprising to me, and neither are the additional restrictions on all of us.

In an ideal world, enforcement would be enough, but most governments don't have enough resources for that, especially because the three-class system in the USA is so complex and difficult to enforce.

[-]

benmooreben@reddit

Love mine!!

[-]

WoollyKnitWitch@reddit

My kids have also been riding peddle assist e-bikes with us since the Covid days. We taught them young about road safety, helmets, and being a responsible rider.

Our kids and your grandkids are not the risk group. They have supervision and aren’t being given carte blanche with overpowered equipment. You vastly underestimate the amount of absentee parents that aren’t doing what we have done. The worst will always ruin things for those that do it right. Not much we can do about it until legislation and education can reach a balance that gives riders rights while also keeping children safe for their own sakes.

[-]

Neenknits@reddit

A 10 yr old who hasn’t ridden a lot is NOT safe on a 20mph limited ebike. It takes time develop the skills for that speed, and young kids are much too impulsive to work up to it slowly.

OTOH, a 10 yr old who does ride a lot, and is a strong rider who can maintain a 15mph average ride could probably handle it, as long as they were generally a considerate kid. They would have built up the skills to control the bike at speed, by all the riding. But, again, kids are impulsive and not reliable. So being able to maintain that speed without as much effort encourages crazy kid behavior….

Until you find a way to overcome kids’ impulsivity, they don’t belong on e-bikes.

[-]

0jdd1@reddit

I’m M73 and an e-biker too, and I approve this message.

(Kids! Get your e-motos OFF MY LAWN !!! Durn kids….)

[-]

Far_Passage_3782@reddit

I use my e-bike because I have lung disease and can not pedal long distances. So I require a throttle that allows me to ride an e-bike like a motorcycle. I ride responsibly and within the limits of the law. I also have a motorcycle endorsement. The way the laws are going, my ability to go out and enjoy parks and paths, will be taken from me. There needs to be a happy medium. I remember a time when all bicycles were registered and either a plate or sticker was issued to the bike. It was for finding stolen bikes but it wasn’t an issue to register. Then when registering a certain color plate could be used for a class of bike. If it’s an emoto, then sign them up for a special required course (that’s also available to anyone). With all the ALPR’s around, it wouldn’t be hard to ticket registered users abusing the privilege of riding. Enough parents getting tickets should get parents to wake up and to teach their offspring the rules of the road and about being responsible . Otherwise, pay the tickets. Each infraction should increase in price. Could even be reported to insurance company to ding their auto insurance. I know my state requires insurance company to be listed at license registration.

[-]

K

[-]

Ok-Resolve3407@reddit

I bought one a couple of years ago and I agree about 45 mph being a dangerous speed on a bike.

I remember thinking it's an opportunity to teach a kid how to ride & maintain a bike but it's dangerous to just turn a kid loose on one of these and there is liability associated with these bikes that your home owners ins probably doesn't cover?

I love ❤️ this ebike but the first thing I had to do was put zoom brakes on, so I could count on stopping.

I also put real tires on it and the ones I took off, I twisted up like a pretzel 8 and folded in half again and stuffed it into a plastic grocery bag?

I don't know how they expected that tire to repel anything?

I didn't start off thinking I would work on my own bike but it quickly turned into that and its been a learning experience.

Those bikes also need a good mirror.

[-]

drstovetop@reddit

Preach brother. It's lazy lawmaking if you ask me. How about expanding bike lanes, educating the public about watching out for bikes, and enforcing the laws against those who break it.

[-]

rovingdan@reddit

Well said. You made a clear and valid distinction.

Yall realize that most people using those cheap ebikes NEED cheap transportation.