Starting to really dislike living in England.
Posted by man_jis@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 247 comments
I am prepared for Brits to make aggressive and hostile comments towards me for this post, “go back home then” comments, or people invalidating my experience. I’ve experienced this a lot living here.
I’ve been in the UK for about 6 years and have only lived in the North. I am South East Asian, but grew up in the states. When I lived in the countryside, I received some casually racist comments and stares. People at work made me feel excluded. I moved to a bigger city because of this, but still in the North. It felt better for a little bit, but now the newness is gone and I very much still feel like an outsider. I have maybe one British acquaintance and my close friends are all expats even though I have tried to make an effort to assimilate.
I am tired of the anti-immigration sentiment. A lot of British people don’t seem to understand that I had to pay for the NHS as a part of my visa and that I am not entitled to public funds. The new ILR visa changes makes expats feel even more unwanted here, so a lot of my friends are also considering leaving. I know immigration is a big issue, and so I understand where their anger is coming from.
I am tired of the weather. Most of my hobbies are outdoors. When the weather is great the hiking is limited to walking in a field in someone’s private property. There are hardly and forests and you can never really be away from people/traffic.
I do really like the work life balance, the job security, affordable housing, access to Europe, and that everyone has access to healthcare in this country. This is what initially made me want to move here. But I am getting to a point where I would rather be surrounded by friendly people and have a few more days of sunshine.
Will this get better by moving to a different city down South or is it time to leave?
Wide_Annual_3091@reddit
Look - I’m British (probably from the area where you are living now) but live in another country and I’m not going to hate on you. I totally get how you’re feeling and I’ve had some of the same thoughts myself in the places I’ve lived abroad.
That’s because all the things you’ve raised as issues are normal for immigrants - because everywhere in the world has good and bad points, and to quote a phrase, we can sometimes fall into a “the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence” mentality.
You’ve spent six years of your life in the U.K. I’m sure it’s given you a lot of good things as well as the negatives you cite, but if it’s no longer for you, or if you just want a change, then go for it.
In the end, sometimes a place just isn’t for us and it’s best to move on.
No one on this sub of elsewhere can tell you one way or another; it’s up to you to decide that for yourself.
thereisonlythedance@reddit
Unfortunately this response doesn’t account for the fierceness of the current anti-immigrant wave here, and the way it’s been conjured out of nothing by certain self interested groups. So no, it’s not just like everywhere else right now. Some other places, but not everywhere.
Uncle_Richard98@reddit
Unfortunately this “anti-immigrant wave” is very popular in the western world now. Im from Portugal and there’s is a new political party who is totally against the immigrants and has become now the second biggest political party in the country, they blame immigrants for everything and an anti immigrant movement is growing up more and more (even the Portuguese government because of this movement increase the time from 5 years to 10 years for immigrants to get citizenship).
The same is happening in Ireland, Netherlands, Germany etc. We are in a new era of blaming immigrants for all our problems, it probably started in America and is spreading like crazy
babijar@reddit
Leave America alone. It’s most welcoming and tolerant country there is! Think about Middle East, Eastern Europe, there you will run into real problems.
RoundAd4247@reddit
It didn’t start in the USA. It would benefit Europeans to know about politics in other EU countries at least before going full r/USdefaultism.
Anti-immigration, ultranationalist politics have been “on the rise” in Europe for at least 25 years. The cholera or plague elections between Chirac and papa le Pen in France were in 2001. The nationalist Finns had their big win in 2011, and have been in government twice since (which always means losing popularity because they cannot keep to their insane promises).
In European multiparty political systems however there is a cap of the popularity of the far right at 20-30% of the vote. While that is way too high for a civilised country, at least it’s better than the USA where the far right has half the votes and the other party is pure neoliberalism with nice language.
True_liess@reddit
Politicians use vulnerable people. Trump was a game changer for these vulnerable people. Broken people, people who dont have education, people who dont have any skills, people who are zero on economics will obviously see immigrants as an easy target. UK is no different. But the massive trend started with Trumps first term. War in middle east are to blame for some of the big problems in the developed world today.
CuriousLands@reddit
Yeah it's way too easy to blame the US for it, especially with Trump in office. But it's simply not true. It's usually a reaction of local people to local politics.
PophamSP@reddit
Indeed. Coming from the US, they NEED to scapegoat to direct hatred and relieve pressure on the billionaires. The wealthy are quietly flying under the radar while getting much richer and enjoying the division among the plebes.
Scapegoating immigrants, people of color, women, LGBTQ, even labeling and blaming generations elicits a very energizing hatred among those who that are living with less. Angry people find satisfaction in blaming someone while their suffering is actually due to the policies that billionaire-funded Republicans have created over the last 46 years.
The oligarchs are laughing from their plush seats in the Roman arena.
Yet-Another-Persona@reddit
Agree. The generational hate really gets me. I'm square in the millennials bucket but I can't stand that everyone beats on Boomers and that Boomers beat on GenZ and etc etc etc. How are all these groups so oblivious to the fact they are engaging in clear ageism, which is just as bad as sexism, racism, ableism, etc?
CuriousLands@reddit
No, actually, your last point is really off-base (sorry). It didn't start in the US and spread around.
Our governments made a whole string of bad decisions that let in way too many immigrants, of low quality, who don't care one whit about the locals beyond what they can extract from them. It's been negatively impacting the social systems, employment, crime, etc for over a decade now, with no end in sight, and the government & law enforcement often work against the interests of local people, while the locals are called racist for having legitimate issues. Under those circumstances it's completely normal and justifiable to have a fair bit of anti-immigrant sentiment.
Like it's a real shame that normal, good immigrants get lumped in with those bad actors in this bad situation, absolutely. Unfortunately many people don't hold a lot of space for that kind of nuance... or IME they often do, but when they're angry and venting they don't express that nuance. But it's not right to blame this sentiment on the US when it's often a pretty understandable reaction to local politics.
MechanicalEngel@reddit
It's bad in Sweden right. The rules for citizenship just screwed over a massive wave of people, and all the comments from native Swedes on TillSverige right now are incredibly rude, harsh, and are telling people in no short terms "we don't want you here". I'm not leaving, but it's not at all hard to understand why someone would.
Crazy_Maintenance211@reddit
It’s also happening in Canada too, it’s wrapped up very quickly and it’s like we’re going back to the 1950s but I think it’s even more dangerous than the 1950s. Many people are blaming immigrants and anybody who’s different in any way, it doesn’t matter whether it’s religion, sexuality, skin, color, and it’s just vile. We all know where that ends because we saw where World War II ended.
ugispizza@reddit
Oh wow it already happened? Heard about this this year. Also here in Sweden it will increase from 5 to 8 ):
Helen62@reddit
It's happening in Australia too .
thereisonlythedance@reddit
Yes, I agree. There’s a concerted online campaign by an international far right cabal.
But the West isn’t everywhere (and to be fair it’s not all of the West either)
wtheringheights@reddit
is this hate towards immigrants a generalised thing even if it’s a white immigrant or only towards people of colour or from developing countries?
thereisonlythedance@reddit
Generalised but far worse for POC because they’re more easily identified as “other” before speaking.
Yet-Another-Persona@reddit
Eh we're copping it in Australia right now. I think it's happening everywhere. Anti-immigration generally, because it's just so grossly easy for people to blame problems on immigrants (even when they are cultural and structural). Also a lot of anti-intellectualism rising, which leads people into black-and-white thinking.
OP also mentions being American as well. It's pretty sucky being an American abroad right now (everyone hates us and lumps us in with Trump supporters even if we left the country before all this nonsense), adding POC on top of that has got to be extremely hard in 90% of western countries
Solid_Ad_7156@reddit
Kind of wild to say that “it’s been conjured out of nothing” ….literally millions of people from vastly different parts of the world have been dumped into largely homogeneous cultures without a place to house them, without a plan to integrate them, and without money to pay for them. And the establishment told anyone who noticed any of the issues being caused is the real problem lol. I mean really what did you expect.
CuriousLands@reddit
Not to mention that a lot of government and legal policies have poured gas on that fire. I mean I read in the news just yesterday about some kid in the UK who got stabbed to death by a Sikh guy who claimed it was justified because the victim was being racist (which a) wouldn't justify murdering someone, and b) it looks like the guy was lying, probably because he knew crying racism virtually absolves a non-white person of any sin). Apparently the cops believed the murderer and arrested the victim who was bleeding to death... because of ridiculous recent takes on anti-racism.
Like I hate to be so blunt about it, but that's what it is. Yeah it's rough that good normal immigrants get lumped into that when they don't deserve it. But if people don't want high anti-immigrant sentiments, they should have sensible and balanced policies and laws (and enforcement), allow open discussion, and try to factor in the impact to local people. They can't sit around and blame Trump while ignoring the local situation forever.
MushroomVolcano@reddit
Conjured out of nothing is just false.
Fungled@reddit
Most sane and balanced Reddit comment I’ve read for ages
lmneozoo@reddit
Probably ai then lol
FR-DE-ES@reddit
OP, from your post history, I know you were from California and your profession is not easily transferable to other countries. You said you are considering Southern Europe and finding community is important to you. I am ex-Californian who had lived/worked in London & Italy & Spain (Spain is my home for the 10th year, I have native relatives here). Based on my experience&observation, I'd say -- compare to California, everywhere else is less friendly and weather is less nice (I have lived in 8 European countries). I have never recommended Italy&Spain to my non-white friends in California. Anti-immigrant/foreigner/tourists sentiment is on the rise, far right parties have loyal base and are steadily expanding. You are not likely to find friendlier or more welcoming attitude there than in UK. More importantly, Asians' social status is much higher in UK than in Spain/Italy; in countries where connection is essential for renting/social/jobs, outsiders are at severe disadvantage, even worse for non-white. I believe you would be much better off moving to London.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the advice. I am aware that the treatment towards immigrants would be worse in countries like Spain/Italy and that it would be a very difficult move, but I’ve only considered it as there is an outdoor climbing community in certain areas. I know if I leave the UK, I would be trading one thing for another.
I am highly considering a move to either London or Bristol for now after reading the comments.
babijar@reddit
You mean even for Latinos? My son-in law is Latino from Colombia, my daughter is white blonde. They are planning to move to Spain as they hate the US. Do you think he will encounter any prejudice there?
Hairy-Incident2105@reddit
Oh I doubt that. Stop believing anything they tell you and letting them gaslight you. I had the same negative experience in the Uk even as more white passing, but I haven’t posted about it because I also expected their aggressive and invalidating comments.
I’m in Spain right now and there’s a large Pakistani population. Spanish people are much more hospitable than the British. Also the only reason it might seem that British people would treat you better is because they are fundamentally cowards and afraid of seeming racist not because they are actually morally superior as they pretend to be.
Italians are also known for being pretty warm and it has much better culture food and weather. I don’t think you would be waisting anything by moving there, albeit it won’t be an end all fix all as we still need to establish roots which is never easy to do from scratch.
If you feel more comfortable with the Uk but bigger city now go for it, I agree with someone saying to maybe just go on holiday a lot while you live in the Uk to these places esp to test it out.
Unhappy_Performer538@reddit
Just go holiday there. Imo it doesn’t make sense to move somewhere to do an outside hobby when your daily experience of being accepted, your ability to get a job, your ability to get accommodation, finding a community, would be fruitless
Yet-Another-Persona@reddit
Agree. OP if your plan is to stay in Europe you can easily travel to those places on weekends even to do your hobby.
I'm a scuba diver and prefer warm water, but I wouldn't be happy living in most of the locations that have easy access to that, so I don't force it. It's more important to have social acceptance and community.
InvincibleMirage@reddit
Just do London, unless you’re returning to the US. London is the only place I’d live in the UK.
Hairy-Incident2105@reddit
Hell no I left the US because I didn’t like the culture I was in and I lived in a way less emotionally warm place than California. Seriously is it so hard to fathom that the UK is severally over glazed and sucks?
I was in Scotland and lots of people were rude aggressive negative gossipy to afraid to express themselves- British speech is either very curated and won’t say much that isn’t socially acceptable which is a small narrow bar or they’ll be the biggest a**holes you’ve met in your life. The culture is toxic they have tall poppy syndrome for anyone and anything that is different than them.
Boring culture ugly architecture except some old buildings from the past, horrible weather, people who I often felt very uncomfortable around despite going there with an open mind etc
fromazores@reddit
For curiosity, What about Malta? I was there last year in holidays and I find a big asian community that seems to be well integrated. But holidays its different, thats why im curious if you have idea about this?
Really big curiosity: There are still Some friendly-immigrant european contry at this moment ?
PS: I am european and I am not judging anyone. I see the anti-immigration is a hard and true thing this days and I am genuine curious about non-european Born people (but that choose live in europe) point of view
ActPuzzleheaded8516@reddit
Don’t think OP would find much greenery there. I also thought about moving there but there’s so much rock and I can’t afford a boat. I’ve heard the same, that they are polite and talk a good game re civil rights but respect is not always given.
Normal_Money_9629@reddit
I've read somewhere that Malta is pretty racist as well but it's just more subtle. Not like the US of course. Southeast Asian cleaners in the country are according to the Internet sadly experience racism. There is a small but significant Southeast Asian and East Asian population there. I read that a black guy was followed around in a watch shop. Something that rarely happens in the UK. Despite the polarized net I think many in the UK are aware of the issues with racism in some respects. However with the rise of anti immigrant rhetoric it seems contradictory. Thus, the conclusion that can be made is that there's racism everywhere. Maltese seem quite reserved compared to their neighbours so expect racial subtlety than overt encounters though sadly might get some overt encounters. Im sure there is systemic racism too. I'd say the Asian community there seems pretty strong. There's lots of Asian restaurants there.
FR-DE-ES@reddit
I know nothing about Malta, sorry.
Minskdhaka@reddit
Southern European (borderline North African) and sunny, but a country where English should be sufficient for many white-collar jobs, since it's one of the official languages there.
Lifelong_Expat@reddit
Thanks for these insights. I have been considering Europe as a place to move to as an Asian, and this post has been helpful.
I believe what you say about Spain. I suspected as much after watching the first five minutes of money Heist and being turned off by the multiple racist comments against Chinese people.
babijar@reddit
I find it hard to believe. I am European-American, so obviously I am looking like British. But I had never even visualized any discrimination. After all, UK always had/has so many foreign looking people for centuries.
CuirOtter@reddit
I totally get you, been here a year and a half and not really liking it despite trying my best. Weather avd racism are the two things I can't deal with...
man_jis@reddit (OP)
I think just the weather alone I could deal with. But both and I want out.
CuirOtter@reddit
Yes, exactly my sentiment.
Icy_Stop_9137@reddit
So this is a mixed bag. Making friends is hard for anyone due to phones and social media. I wish I could make some friends who were actually friends. 😂 Sometimes I believe I was born in the wrong era.
The immigrantion part is really difficult its only because the government keeps ignoring the people. Doing squat about it and the fact we can't say anything without being called names which they’ve done this intentionally so they don’t have to get their hands dirty. They divided the people instead. It’s what they always do.
My dad is indian Muslim (1st gen) he hasn't experienced any racism for some years now and I look white anyway. 😂 I even got my mums blue eyes with olive skin. So I don’t have my own experiences. I do worry for the heightened anger that is leading to more actual racism in some areas.
I’ll name you some areas my dad and we have lived in and like I said he’s not experienced anything really other than his last work company they’d never give him promotions even tho he was the hardest worker. so he left 10 years ago and now he’s an MD. Haha Redhill. east grinstead, Sevenoaks, Lewis, & Reading. These are all areas we’ve lived and he’s not ever had any racial discrimination. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
True_liess@reddit
OP - Did you not find rascism in US ? Anywhere for that matter, In small towns and villages, outsiders are always outsiders.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
I did not experience this level of racism in California.
WarLeast2045@reddit
As an American citizen, I had experienced a bit of arrogance when I travelled to England, and I thought that maybe it was just the specific crowd that I ran into. The police were unfriendly, and I saw plenty of skinheads. On the contrary, my travels through Ireland and Scotland were awesome. Being of Irish heritage, I can understand the friction.
Bun_Length_Frank@reddit
I am not active in this community, but as you say you're American, I can't understand why you don't live in the US.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
No social safety nets. I had 3 jobs at one point but no health insurance. The work life balance is horrible and you’re at will with employers. I remember having to beg to have one week off at my last job and everyone made me feel guilty about it. If I return now, I’ll have a well-ish paid job with good benefits, but I’d be giving up being able to call in sick without question, 28+ days of paid vacation, my job security, and being able to actually afford a house.
GeologistThat2073@reddit
Come to the US--Northern California specifically. The weather, top notch education, urban centers and natural environment are what dreams are made of....Ive lived here for 63 years so I should know!
man_jis@reddit (OP)
If I decide to move home, Northern California and Oregon are my choices! I lived in SF and it still is my favorite city.
woahtheremate_@reddit
Mate you’re not far off. Brits hate Britain and Brits hate Britain EVEN more now .. and I’m talking about white Brits.
They’re moving in droves and there were some stats the other day citing it’s the highest number of those leaving and considering leaving for about 30 years.
I take my hat off to you being in the north. I couldn’t do it.
Also an expat but been here over 20 years. I initially lived in the midlands and was a bit younger. Got into many a fight. It was foundational but nobody messed with me after. I don’t want to have to jump through ignorant bigoted hoops to get through the day though. I went back to that town recently and it’s still old and drab - but there’s more people that look like me. And I presume those that were hostile are bored of it now.
I moved to London and I’d tell anyone looking for hobbies, community and to not feel like you feel to move to . LONDON, MANCHESTER (haven’t lived there but heard), LEEDS, BRISTOL is an amazing one (been there a few times). I also hear MARGATE is great but there’s not as much going on culturally as in london.
Does racism happen? Yeah. But you won’t have the hypervigilance you have in the north. Everyone’s getting on with their lives, they’re busy and they don’t give a sh**. At most, they’ll moan in pubs and online.
They have that Tommy grifter guy doing those hate matches. They’ve been doing those for years. It achieves nothing but a day out drinking and a bit of hooliganism. In the next borough over, people are playing frisbee, having a roast and a multi cultural group of people are having a picnic in the marshes.
The only thing I can say about london is - be intentional about community. Be intentional about where you live. Curate your MONEY.
From what you’re seeking it sounds like you don’t want to be overstimulated (same as me), you’re active re nature (similar to myself) and you want community (similar to myself).
This means choosing where you live very specifically will have an effect on your quality of life eg will it be leafy? How accessible to public transport is it?
Richmond comes to mind if you dont mind the commute. Islington. Angel. Surrey if you don’t mind living that far in. Dulwich. Walthamstow Village. There are special interest groups, culture everywhere - from free to costly.
Just have an open mind. Because people can move to london from up north and become what they were escaping - intolerant and judgey. I have found my tribe walking into barber shops and sitting and speaking with them for hours. I’ve found my tribe in the chaps from a newsagents who I would talk to all the time, I have found my tribe at the gym, I’ve found my tribe at the spot I’d usually go hot desk.
You gotta be good with money but if you have it in abundance you’re good. If you want to make sacrifices - curate them eg will I share? Will I live a little out and travel in?
THAT SAID - I’m tired of london .. and my area .. I might just be overstimulated … I think it’s mostly England and its attitude to work and success… I ironically prefer America for this and am figuring out moving. It’s solely for that .. NYC or Cali. Here can be like dragging through mud at times. And nobody wants to succeed too much or want you to succeed too much. I’m an ideas person and just find the general space around it a drag.
Could this be class and race involved in this experience - absolutely.
If I were to leave tomorrow and come back though? London would be it. If I felt like I needed much less stimulation? Margate as it’s close to london. Bristol at an absolute stretch.
In Europe ? I’d move to ITALY. It has EVERYTHING you need except a brilliant job market 🤣🤣 if you’re remote, you’re good!
I wish you well!
Hairy-Incident2105@reddit
Interesting how you mention feeling hyper vigilant in the north… that’s how I felt all the time in Scotland
Unhappy_Performer538@reddit
Margate is great for old swingers. It’s small and there’s not that many people, and most people that live there are older and all date each other lol. I wouldn’t recommend it
SiteRelEnby@reddit
All of Kent is a shithole best avoided.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Thank you for taking the time to write this! You’re spot on in my feelings of hyper vigilance in the North. It’s not everywhere, but more away from the cities. I am considering a move to Bristol or London.
I am from California and it sounds like you would be a great lifestyle/career fit!
Unhappy_Performer538@reddit
Bristol is ok but the city vibe that you get in exchange for the poverty isn’t high enough imo. I recommend London
Responsible-Craft586@reddit
The people in the west call us 3rd works but seriously countries like India, Pakistan, Italy, Vietnam u know your community.
SignificanceBig8369@reddit
I agree with most comments. You’d probably want to move in more open minded places in the country that also have (a bit) more sunshine. Think London (even surroundings if you want to keep the nature element of it), Cambridge, Brighton, Bristol. There are very big South East Asian communities and even Asian American expat groups. I can’t think of a single neighbourhood within Zone 1-2-3 of London without a Thai restaurant within a 15 minute walk.
I would highly recommend against moving to Southern Europe: if racism is what makes you hate the North you’ll hate Spain and even more so Portugal and Italy.
HiiGH-LiiFE@reddit
Move to Scotland. Housing is half the price and it's still mostly native. With the exception of Glasgow
Prestigious-Ad2140@reddit
I am afraid that thanks to Trump USers are not very popular lately. Not your fault. Your countrymen have a reputation for talking loudly and saying everything's better in the USA. If that describes you, stop and things should improve.
Ruddington9@reddit
May not be a popular reply , but I have always found those from the North generally friendly. Less so in major southern conurbations
Advanced-Parking173@reddit
“I am tired of the anti-immigration sentiment”
You’re not going to avoid this problem NO MATTER WHERE IN THE WORLD YOU ARE, unless you are in your home country. It sucks but you can’t escape it. Generally the more a country is homogeneous, the worse the “anti-immigration sentiment” is going to be.
I am from the UK and live in an Asian country that is 99% homogeneous so I can fully understand the feeling. In fact, the discrimination that I face in Asia is worse than an Asian person faces in England. At least in England it’s unacceptable to turn someone down from a restaurant, hotel etc because of their nationality. At least in England there are pathways to becoming a citizen and having equal rights
Anyway, it’s important to just focus on the positives and remember why you came to a country in the first place. The UK is one of the fairest and best countries in the world regarding opportunities and treatment of immigrants and that’s a fact. It does sound like you could maybe change city for scenery, but that won’t really help with the weather aspect. Perhaps you just need to change countries overall.
TokyoLosAngeles@reddit
Let me guess, you live in Japan, right? Lol if so, I live in Japan as well and I think it’s beyond ridiculous the way racism is legally accepted here in a way that would never fly in western countries.
Advanced-Parking173@reddit
Ha no I live in China. I think the situation is even worse in Japan for foreigners.
a150b464@reddit
Wow I didn't realize ppl could get blocked from entering a restaurant if they're not Chinese
TokyoLosAngeles@reddit
Oooof China? I would never even want to visit there. At least in Tokyo, people basically treat you totally normally if you speak Japanese. My impression is that people in China openly stare at you, try to take pictures of you and selfies with you, and will never even talk to you like a regular human being — just some kind of weird, exotic toy for their amusement.
Advanced-Parking173@reddit
Haha no I have several crazy stories relating to locals being weird or crowding around like I’m a zoo exhibit but it doesn’t really happen inside big cities. It’s usually just a lot more subtle like staring, getting asked if you speak Chinese etc. It’s also significantly worse if you’re a darker skin colour, which I’m not, and if you’re in rural areas.
TokyoLosAngeles@reddit
Jeeze. I would say my impression sounds accurate then! No thanks.
5LaLa@reddit
You asked, their answer starts with, “haha no” but, you think your impression is accurate?
TokyoLosAngeles@reddit
They said “no,” and then went on to saying they have several such crazy stories as well as regularly enduring being stared at. I have zero such stories or experiences from living in Japan.
5LaLa@reddit
Yeah, they said they had several such stories & then you seemed to ignore the rest of their comment.
BonetaBelle@reddit
That’s definitely not accurate lol. I agree with the other poster, in more rural areas people might come up to you in groups or stare out of curiosity but it’s really not malicious.
TokyoLosAngeles@reddit
It’s the kind of stuff I’ve heard anecdotally from multiple people in-person, as well as videos I’ve seen online. Despite the institutional issues, at least Japanese people don’t behave that way on an interpersonal level. Would rather not be oogled at like I’m a one-eyed gargoyle, but thanks!
arteest01@reddit
Indeed it is and not nearly as safe as they like to pretend they are to the rest of the world.
Advanced-Parking173@reddit
It’s not just that they exaggerate how safe and perfect it is, but it’s also that they exaggerate how unsafe and imperfect their home countries are.
It feels like when people online talk about crime in the UK, 80% of the time they’re just talking about London. Things like acid attacks, watch stealing gangs and mass stabbing are just not an issue in the majority of cities in the UK.
fromazores@reddit
Really? Can you speak more about? They show to outside that they are so friendly, old-custume, educated…. And then 😒😞
TokyoLosAngeles@reddit
The most egregious is the rampant housing discrimination. Trying to rent an apartment here as foreigner, in no exaggeration, most places will flat out say “no foreigners.” Much rarer, but still a thing, certain restaurants/establishments have also turned away foreign customers and say “Japanese only” (it’s usually just in reference to language, but certain places have posted signs explicitly indicating more than just language). There’s also a general anti-foreigner sentiment being reflected with LDP politicians like Takaichi and Onoda, and also the even crazier party Sanseito.
fromazores@reddit
Thank you for the explanation. I'm speechless.
B-Profit8097@reddit
I lived in Japan 2008 and I was shocked how they talk about other asian people. When I called them out, they were shocked.
TokyoLosAngeles@reddit
Yeah, they act so polite at face value, but they really have a pretty obnoxious superiority complex and really look down about all other Asian people. No wonder they were imperialists.
woahtheremate_@reddit
I absolutely disagree with this. This is a hugely British and mainly western problem perpetrated by the political climate of the country and what the politicians present as the problem of the country.
Britains problem is not actually immigration either - it’s a grift, an election talking point and a place to dump the problems the government are creating with policies. I’ve often been confused about how on earth a country claiming to be at the forefront of education thinks that immigrants are “coming and taking benefits and free healthcare and being given mansions”. It is so entirely asinine, it hurts the brain to think that nobody can do basic research or can even sit to think - it doesn’t make sense.
And it is from this entirely false premise - not dissimilar to racism which is an entirely false premise - that people spend their lives hostile to others. It is like a cult. A cult of hatred. Blindly “angry”. These very same people have family members living in Spain mind (some of whom protested “the immigrants” from Spain).
I’ve travelled to many many places across the world and thank goodness for perspective — Britain is a small island with countless issues and terrible policies concerning its citizens. But not everywhere in the world is this same hostile racist angry environment… not at allll
Advanced-Parking173@reddit
Japan and other Asian countries have it normalized to charge foreigners more money for the same item, or refuse to sell/rent to foreigners. England doesn’t have this problem so no, you are in the wrong.
Tradtrade@reddit
Where currently doesn’t have racism and/or an immigration grift ongoing?
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the perspective. I have heard a lot of Asian countries are not very friendly towards foreigners, so I’m sorry you’re dealing with this too.
starz-moon@reddit
I am Mexican that now is Mexican- US citizen. I never felt at home in USA or when I was living in Türkiye, but you know, I follow the work opportunities and study opportunities. I am planning to get my master's degree in epidemiology, so I am choosing countries. Spain is well known for its slow bureaucracy... as for the UK. This is precisely why I am avoiding it. The more I travel the harder I realized I seek warmer cultures. I would only move to close to London or Manchester based on what my research and people I talked to, because I like to see diversity. I dont like being the odd one because I am very petite. But, I do cry sometimes because México is not improving. There is no place like home, but I stopped wishing, and therefore I am creating home within myself. I do plan to immigrate again outside of the USA, but I am consciously aware that there is no perfect country, all I can do is focus on the positives which is affordable healthcare ( something the USA does not have) and safety for women ( the rising feminicide in México). The rest..... people, relationships,friendship.... I have always been bad at making friends or networking or flirting, so I just don't care about it anymore.
Rubsintheworld@reddit
I'm Brazilian (F) living in Ireland for the last 7 years. I've never really encountered any racism or prejudice for being Brazilian. On the other hand, Irish people are very kind, generous and friendly. You will see anti-immigration or racism online, but that doesn't really translate to real life.
That been said ...... In seven years, I've only managed to make 3 Irish friends (one moved abroad so now I only have two here). Most of my friends are immigrants. And it sucks because eventually everyone leaves and you feel like you put all that energy into the relationship for "nothing". Irish people can be very closed off between them. They have their school friends and that's enough for them, they don't feel the need to include new people in their bubbles. I don't see it as a anti-foreigners thing, it's just how they are. I think this is a struggle that most foreigners experience, unfortunately.
Ireland and UK are very similar weather wise, but Irish weather can be more unpredictable I think, so that wouldn't help you.
rainzephyr@reddit
I’m black living in Ireland and I’ve definitely had racist incidents and met with xenophobic people here in Ireland, so it does exist here it’s not only online. I’ve even seen anti immigrant graffiti. A lot of Irish people start acting nicer towards me when they figure out I’m American but before they hear me speak they think I’m from a non western country and treat me accordingly. I’ve also met some good Irish people here but I don’t see myself staying in Ireland long term.
Rubsintheworld@reddit
That's sad to hear, sorry about that. Are you based in Dublin? I'm in Cork, different vibes here I think. But also I'm not black, so I definitely don't suffer the same as you do because of skin colour. I didn't have the intention to say there is no racism in Ireland, every single country in the world is racist, just in different levels. Just by curiosity, as an american, do you feel more racism in Ireland or in the US? Or like the same level but in different ways?
Alternative-Lock-760@reddit
Live in the New Forest in the South. There's forest, heathland and beaches. The best of England. Nearby cities are Winchester (very nice), Southampton, Bournemouth and Salisbury. Of course, America has its share of problematic people (Maga), and Israel/zionist supporters, so hopefully you are not one of those awful people.
ProbablyBsPlzIgnore@reddit
This is what every single American expat in Northern Europe eventually says, not just the UK.
livadeth@reddit
One could argue that many local people feel the same way. Referring to the large number of Germans, Brits and Dutch living in southern Europe.
ProbablyBsPlzIgnore@reddit
If you grew up there you don’t fully internalize just how dreary it is until you leave. To see the sun and blue sky every day, not 30 times per year, actual nice weather from March through November. Not have that anxiety when it’s almost June and you still haven’t seen the sun that year and you wonder if this is going to be another one of those. It doesn’t fully sink in if you only travel abroad during the summer, that those places aren’t just nice in July like back home
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
Its what you're used to. I couldn't live somewhere that wasn't green, and you need rain for that! I love Northern California for that reason but Southern doesn't do it for me at all.
ProbablyBsPlzIgnore@reddit
Believe me I had no appreciation for the Northern European climate when I grew up in it, but there's a huge difference between 'knowing', like a factoid from a book, that most people in the world don't have to live like that, and having the lived experience of enjoying fall colors in November instead of storm, mud and horizontal sleet.
WritingDizzy2320@reddit
Germany is largely a dump frankfurt has a drug problem alot news says
Sufficient-Job7098@reddit
Always surprises me how American immigrants wannabes like to claim that they are tired of US because they themselves aren’t materialistic and individualistic unlike “typical” Americans.
While simultaneously failing to consider matters of friends and family. Instead focusing on better life/work balance and walkability.
Then those not materialistic Americans move abroad and discover that family, friends and feeling “at home” are also not materialistic things.
They may now realize that many “typical” Americans preferred US not because of money but because this is where their family and friends are, this is where they grew up and feel “at home”. The same reason why most Brazilians stay in Brazil , most Russians stay in Russia, most
ProbablyBsPlzIgnore@reddit
This is why I always say, expats adventures due to a positive reason (job offer you couldn't refuse, adventure, visited a place and fell in love with it) are more successful than those for a negative reason. When you get tired of it move on right away, don't wait 15 years hoping it will get better.
Sufficient-Job7098@reddit
They WERE moving towards positive things. “European lifestyle”, culture, “sense of community”, walkability, healthcare are the most often mentioned positive reasons for moving abroad.
The problem is that many fail to consider positive things they will be leaving behind.
And then we get many: “I realize my parents are getting old” “I realized I’ll never feel at home” “I realized I can’t connect with locals”
JohnLothropMotley@reddit
Preferring an idealized version of a physical environment or transportation modes is also a form of materialism. In some sense a more luxury form of it, regardless of the actual prices paid for life in Europe by the non-materialist non-selfish American expat.
Natural_Jello_6050@reddit
Did they read too much Reddit?
“EU is liberal heaven, no racism, no Trump?”
Cause according to Reddit USA is a Nazi shithole and EU is literally heaven
Tardislass@reddit
Yep. And what many American Redditors who want to be expats don’t realize. You are looked upon as a foreigner and right now immigrants in every country are taking the blame for late stage capitalism imploding Living in Europe is much different than the TikTok influencer who shares themselves sitting at an outdoor terrace and acts like that is daily life for Europeans.
You gotta move where you are happy and don’t ask others especially on Reddit.
AKUtqiagvik@reddit
This is what every single Alaskan says every winter. I’m not sure what the married ones say.
Grand_Av_5528@reddit
I am SE Asian myself, living in London. I have been living here for 12 years. The borough that I live is one of the most diverse borough in London. As fas as I remember, the people that I meet here are from different countries. I met them at work, college or my kid's school. I feel happy here. I active in the community where the place that I live. Although I know about the sentiment of racism, but I don't have this experience. It might be because the place where I live is very diverse. Probably, move to the diverse place like where I live makes you more comfortable. That is my experience. All the best!
dogloophole@reddit
Yeah London, maybe Bristol or Brighton. Also if you stick around join the Ramblers!
Resident_Bee2332@reddit
To offer an alternative perspective, I did the opposite move (England to California) and I’m moving back to the UK next month. Whenever I read posts about people wanting to leave the UK when I miss it so much, it reminds me that wherever you are, there’s really no place like home.
Even-Bit9857@reddit
Move back to America—there is no place like home! I have moved back after spending 6 years in London and I could have written your post verbatim and I’m not Asian. All my friends were expats (Americans or other Europeans), you cannot make friends with British people even with effort —I believe they are raised to distrust or resent Americans deep down. They will never let you feel included genuinely, that is my honest take. I have been back in America this past week, and I laugh that I let myself stay in London for so long. There are benefits to living there but when I weigh the benefits to the cons, I just prefer American attitude and energy. Get citizenship and head out. Best of luck and I hope you stop feeling this way too. It’s not nice feeling unsettled or lost, I’ve been there.
Killah_Kyla@reddit
I think they just think we are dumb, the same way we hear their accent and think it means they're smart 😂
ask4abs@reddit
Moved from a heavily multiethnic city in England (I'm British Asian) to a predominantly white part of the pnw in the US. I've been here 20 years now and I've never felt at home, but wasn't in a position to be able to move again until just recently... For a long time, I didn't even realize it was due (in part, at least) to the color of my skin, because I wasn't familiar with not belonging due to this.
Except now my kids are 14 and 16, wanting to finish school. So I'll stay for a few more years.
Having said that, I do worry that if I moved back to the UK... It also wouldn't be home to me. We change.. Places change. Returning isn't as simple as "going home" because the home we knew is not the home it is, if that makes sense. And, for myself, I've felt this every time I've visited. I've outgrown "home". But I'm also not at home here.
So I'm not sure what the answer is for someone like myself... Kinda just wanna go digital nomad for a bit.
Of all changes, when you visibly stand out because of the color of your skin... People have made a snap judgment before they even talk to you. When I first moved here, people would ask me where I'm from (I don't get it so much anymore, but that's probably because I keep my circle really really tiny on purpose. I'm so tired of cultivating social relationships for them to not go anywhere because American culture makes it hard for people to make time for anything that's not work, church, or family lol -- hobby groups, gym, hiking... Started things. Done it all.) and I'd say England, and they'd say "oh, well, your English is very good." Almost like they couldn't believe that I'm actually FROM England. Welp.
Poetsansamour@reddit
There is a saying that there is no going back and it’s true, the same as you can never swim in the same river twice. Things change snd the world moves on but I think that returning to the place that was home could work if you went with that open mindset and not just for comfort. And you do realise that returning would be difficult for the family dynamic with your children? You never truly belong again after living in another country, and some of us never truly belonged in the first place. Acceptance of that makes it easier. I wish you all the best.
ask4abs@reddit
Indeed, yes. All of what you said runs through my mind. Esp the bit about the family dynamic and kids. Not sure how things will play out. It's all just a big game of what if.
The kids will need to go to uni at some point. Through dad and me, they have access to residency in either Canada or UK. We're in USA. I don't want us all to end up on different continents, but neither do I want to stay in USA. Not sure what the resulting dynamic will be.
Maybe we'll move when they're 18/20 and they'll want to come with us? Maybe they won't and I'll float around some places before settling, and accept whatever is.
If the kids cross borders to go to uni, that'll make it easier, because it won't be me leaving them. Then I could give it a year or so, float a bit, and then settle.
But it all feels very far in the future and whimsical at best. In the meantime, I get to figure out how to make the best of things, at least for myself, because the kids are happy.
Poetsansamour@reddit
Always a dilemma and your decision to make. I would just add this - don’t base your decision on your kids. You brought them into this world and have a responsibility towards them now but in the future anything can happen and it is a mistake to let your adult children make the decisions for your future. You have YOUR life to lead and they have theirs. Much as you hope that you can all live happily ever after in a dream situation that encapsulates all the needs of everyone living close by, the reality could prove very different. And if you make all the sacrifices for the future you want you will end up resentful and tge kids could end up following their dreams to where you cannot follow them. Good luck!
ask4abs@reddit
Oh yes, very true. That balance between personal and parent is a tricky one to walk sometimes.
Poetsansamour@reddit
I hear you! I lived in the U.K. for 40 years. I moved there through idealism but slowly things changed - but the weather never did. Eventually I left to live in Europe for 20 years and was content until circumstances caused me to spend 5 months in the U.K. last year. I am “white” but see the racism - sometimes casual, sometimes hostile. I also struggled feeling an outside. The anti immigrant sentiment was so ugly. I was lucky to be able to come back home to France. It’s not Utopia but I am accepted for who I am, the people in my village like me and have been welcoming from day one - and there is a real sense of community here. After 20 years I don’t want to live anywhere else. 😂 And the weather is better!! You ask for advice and mine is to find your place, the place where you feel at home. It’s a big world and a short life. And life is about learning and growing not enduring! The very best of luck to you - I wish you serenity!
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Yes, a sense of community is definitely what I am after. I have thought about Southern Europe. Thank you for the advice!
Unhappy_Performer538@reddit
Southern Europe is even worse when it comes to racism
Sandiegosurf1@reddit
Can you please tell me what countries/cities you are referring to? I’m an American considering moving to southern Europe for a job (France).
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
France had fascists in mainstream politics long before the UK did (the NF and the Le Pens).
Poetsansamour@reddit
Hmmmm - accounted for by the antiquated and unrepresentative first past the post voting system. For decades Britain has been essentially a two party state. Britain has always had fascists except they didn’t show up in the voting statistics because the system didn’t encourage smaller parties. There have always been environmentalists, communists, anarchists etc too. A true democratic process reflects this more clearly than the British system.
RoundAd4247@reddit
You’re not going to find “a sense of community “ when you cannot speak the local languages.
Poetsansamour@reddit
You CAN learn! And the best way of doing that is take some classes and then learn in situ WITH the locals. And avoid the expat groups - hard to do but the locals will accept you much more easily if you are not part of some clique.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Yes, I am aware. This is why I’ve only thought about it and nothing more.
defixiones@reddit
If casual racism is an issue then I'm not sure Southern Europe is for you either.
Poetsansamour@reddit
I don’t live in the South of France - it’s a pretty big country and I know certain areas have problems with racism. It’s not like that in perhaps 90% of the country outside the very large cities. The racist attitudes I have encountered tend to be against the Maghreb and is a remnant of things like the Algerian War of Independence. It’s pretty much like the older UK generations have a problem with Japanese and Germans.
Nuraldin30@reddit
I know I’m the third to say it, but having lived in both the UK and Southern Europe, the racism is unfortunately much worse in the latter (and I’m not downplaying the problem in the former when I say that…)
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
I'd say Manchester or London would be the best options for you, and to be honest even parts of those cities are getting far too hostile to immigrants and non white people. Its incredibly depressing.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
I am currently in Manchester. It’s not in your face hostile, but you can definitely feel the tension.
nosoyrubio@reddit
Brit here. I left the UK just over 2 years ago. Not for the first time. Unfortunately the country is becoming more and more divided and toxic, and, aside from London, less tolerant. The media have done a really good job of pitting people against each other, and successive governments have been completely inept and it's gonna get worse before it gets better
sybersam6@reddit
OMG OP, why did you not move to London in the first place? You can always travel for climbing & Rochdale & around have heavy climbing history ( see local & older books in the library) but in Lobdon you will fit in perfectly & be highly valued. Run, don't walk. I am not familiar with Bristol but London & the south is your place. Go explore Scilly Isles, Portsmouth, beaches, Cornwall, it will be warmer, more to do, & thete are definitely fun Asian areas to explore in London. Start planning now. You're already missing out!!
man_jis@reddit (OP)
I know I should’ve done it earlier. People up North like to say that London/South is unfriendly. But I’ve only ever met friendly people there! I didn’t think there was a lot of climbing/nature close by and so that’s what stopped me.
sybersam6@reddit
You may need community & a relaxed home area before climbing needs. If you're in part of London, there's transport everywhere, and you'll find great climbing groups to go on trips up north for Bank Holiday weekends or to other close countries. You've lived near the climbing & been miserable & lonely. Go explore living near familiar neighborhoods & travel to climb. There's 12-14 climbing centers along the Thames & slightly NW & SE. Weekends when you aren't climbing you can practice at a center & read books & find loads of other climbers to have a nice pub lunch with. There's North Wales, Sheffield & Lake district sure, but also Cornwall/Pembroke & Portsmouth, depending on what type you prefer. Look for a solid area to live in first, to improve your everyday life, then venture out to explore all types of climbing. Each time you visit London to check out a potential area to research ( ensure you look at crime & all living stats first) go to a close climbing center. Get an Oyster card & get to know all the transport options. This could be an amazing change for you so take it slow & really focus on places with good markets, adequate growth opportunities, near transportation, and in your price range. Then look at climbing centers & groups in that area. Take the time to visit each area & each center: don't short yourself. Be open & tell people/staff that you're looking at moving near the area from up north & gauge their reaction & get their advice, ask other climbers too. You've got an amazing summer ahead!
sybersam6@reddit
Southeast Asians in London are not concentrated in a single enclave; rather, they form distinct community hubs across different boroughs. Significant populations of Filipinos live in Brent, Newham, and Kensington and Chelsea. Meanwhile, Vietnamese communities are primarily found in Lewisham, Southwark, and Hackney, and large Malaysian and Thai populations reside in Barnet and Westminster.The Southeast Asian diaspora is quite diverse, and their preferred London locations reflect varied historical, economic, and community factors:Filipinos: The largest Southeast Asian group in the UK, with the most sizable community in Brent (Outer London) and Newham (Inner London). Historically, many originally settled in or near Earl's Court to work in the healthcare sector, though they have since fanned out into more residential boroughs.Vietnamese: The Vietnamese population is heavily anchored in East and Southeast London, with notable historic roots stemming from 1970s refugee resettlement programs. The borough of Hackney remains a cultural hub, alongside Lewisham and Southwark.Malaysians & Singaporeans: Highly dispersed, but with notable concentrations in Barnet and Central London (such as Westminster and Camden), often drawn by educational opportunities and professional work.While East and Southeast Asians can be found throughout the city, if you are looking to experience specific Southeast Asian culture or cuisine, consider these key commercial and community hubs:Chinatown (Westminster): Located in the heart of Central London, this remains the central cultural nexus for all East and Southeast Asian communities, acting as a hub for grocers, bakeries, and restaurants representing China, Malaysia, Vietnam, and Thailand.Queensway (Bayswater): A vibrant area in West London, long known for its dense collection of Chinese, Malaysian, and Singaporean eateries.
Telecom_VoIP_Fan@reddit
Sorry to hear you have had such a negative experience. Certainly, there is racialism in the UK, but I think it a universal experience that some people are suspicious or even hostile to those who look or act differently than them. At the same time, you find many more people who are not prejudiced. I think that people today accept a more multicultural UK than when I was young. For example, the Home Affairs Minister is of Pakistani origin and the leader of the Conservative party from Nigeria. I do not think this would have been possible 50 or 60 years ago.
dmada88@reddit
London is probably one of the most international and diverse cities in the world. The uk outside London is very different. When people ask me how I like living in the UK I answer “I don’t live in the UK. I live in London. “
BeetrootPoop@reddit
Agreed, I grew up in a rural area of SE England and also lived in Edinburgh/Fife, Manchester and near Oxford before moving to London. London is the only part of the UK where people truly don't care what you look or sound like. I'm white, but everywhere else I was made to feel out of place because of my accent or being a newcomer. In London nobody cares because almost everyone is a transplant and it's amazing. The only downside of it is that the high population turnover means friends leaving often.
My wife and I eventually emigrated when we were ready to start a family but we lived 8 happy years in London and still visit for a few days every time we travel to the UK to see family. I think OP would like it - the only downside for them would be outdoors access.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Any areas you would recommend in London?
BeetrootPoop@reddit
I lived in Greenwich and Blackheath and they are my happy places. For closer into town, Wapping and Rotherhithe along the river are really nice. For more leafy/suburban, Dulwich, Wimbledon and Twickenham. I'm biased to South London because it's cheaper, more relaxed and where I lived/worked.
MissionNo1260@reddit
Thailand immigration rules are getting more complicated lately, especially with DTV applications, overstays, and extension requirements changing frequently.
I’ve spent a lot of time dealing with these processes and helping people navigate them. If someone needs advice or wants to understand their options,
daftgadge@reddit
Time to leave - but most places are like this now. You have to be strong and blue your own community. The wider community in all places when you are away from your homeland is probably not what you need. Why on earth would you leave the USA for an inferior country like the UK? US is one of few places on the world where you are least likely to be treated like an outsider. Strange decision
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Have you lived and worked in the states before? I worked 3 different jobs at once, did not have health insurance, bosses get upset and pressure you to come into work when you’re sick then when you get everyone sick they’re mad at you, and you get two weeks paid vacation (which you need to beg to take) and it’s impossible to request for more even if it’s unpaid. Come to work 7 minutes late? They’ll dock 15 minutes of your pay. Want to have children? Come back to work 12 weeks after you give birth. Your company gets to decide what kind of benefits they will give you. You can get fired for anything and very easily. You want to get a Masters degree? That’s 100k not including living expenses.
The US has horrible working conditions for people who aren’t in high paying jobs. And everyone is brain washed into thinking that work is the centre of their lives and is what defines them.
MissionNo1260@reddit
If you’re having any issues with your visa, immigration, overstay, extension, border runs, or your current status in Thailand — feel free to contact me.
I can help you find the best solution for your situation quickly and confidentially.
Tourist visas • DTV • Extensions • Over • Immigration assistance • Consultations
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rainzephyr@reddit
The same experience you have in the north of England is the same experience I have here in Ireland as an American poc.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
I’m sorry you’re also dealing with this. If you ever need to chat or vent I am here to listen.
Fancy_Spot_4092@reddit
Don’t worry mate, I’m English and I’ve been on and off living abroad for the past decade all over the place. I’m tired of moving all the time but I also refuse to move back to that shitshow permanently too. I can’t tell you how often brits have told me “if you don’t like it you should just leave” but it’s not that simple to just move to another country and get permanent residency. I’ve finally managed to secure a digital nomad visa to Spain so I really am off now for good. However, I understand your perspective.
If Reform gains power in the next few years I’ll be closely watching how things unfold when people realise immigration isn’t actually the root cause of the UK’s difficulties. Nothing will improve in regard to living standards with them in power but we’ll have an even more incompetent and inexperienced government than we’ve ever had. It’ll be fascinating to see how people respond when everything goes your way shit even more as a result and they are forced to face the reality of Reform’s incompetence. I’m just glad I’ll be watching from far away!
ihavenosisters@reddit
Your problems are not really UK related but general immigrant problems. I think your perspective is also quite one sided.
I’m also in the Uk right now and I’ve also previously lived in the US, Canada & Japan and I’m originally from Central Europe.
There is anti immigrant sentiments everywhere. The US is full of it, Europe is, Japan is crazy too right now. When you leave your homecountry you’ll be always be a „foreigner“, it doesn’t matter which country. You’re not British, but it’ll be the same if you go to any other country (likely even worse because you don’t speak the language).
Same with the making friends, it’s hard to make friends as an adult. The „I’ve tried to assimilate“ sounds so entitled. Nobody owes you anything, you’re the one wanting to make friends so of course you have to put in more effort. Most people who have lived in the same place for years already have friends. They don’t care. And people in the Uk are just as friendly as in other countries.
Even the weather I wouldn’t necessarily agree. It’s more rainy sure, but I bike in the sun almost every day. There is also really beautiful and remote hiking. We have just been to Scotland, northern wales, Lake and Peak District, Cornwall.
So no, it won’t get any better. For some people living abroad is just not a good fit.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Me stating that I’ve tried to assimilate is more to say that I do try to make the effort to learn the culture and customs. Not that I expect people to like me because it’s the only effort I’ve made. I have also tried to meet people on Bumble BFF, have joined groups, meet people in exercise classes etc. I am aware people are busy and have their own social circles. So I’m sorry if that statement offended you.
Also, a lot of the anger I hear is that the immigrants don’t even try to assimilate. So I have tried, and now I am selfish.
ihavenosisters@reddit
You’re taking this personally and no you’re not selfish, you’re just entitled.
Friendships take time and effort and a bit of luck. I had no problem making friends in the UK so I’m not offended at all. I’m just pointing out that you’re issues with the UK are personal.
Also saying „you’ve tried assimilating“. Wth are you doing in daily life to stand out that much? The US isn’t that different to the UK.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Would also like to add that US and UK are very different. Asking me what I am doing in daily life to stand out that much is a very weird question and I’m not sure how to answer that because I’m not trying to stand out?
Poetsansamour@reddit
Yes U.K. and USA are very different. I have American family and know that everything from language to life expectations are different. I also come from a country that supposedly shares a language and culture with the U.K. but it’s a fallacy. And there are friends and FRIENDS - social acquaintances as opposed to people you could phone at 3am if you needed them. Firstly - if you went back to the States you would not just pick up where you left off! You have changed, the country has changed and your old acquaintances have changed. And you had a reason for moving in the first place. Accept that you have grown and changed. You can go back to the place but not the old life - and why would you want to? You know that life is unsatisfactory for you at the moment and need to do something about it and you are doing so by canvassing opinions so well done. Next you need to consider your options and make a move towards somewhere else. And you know what - if your choice doesn’t work out, there are always other options. It’s NOT that there is anything wrong with you, it’s just that you still need to find your place. Some people find it hard to find, others are more fortunate. YOU are special snd like me March to the best of your own drum - embrace it! I spent much of my life apologising for bring different and trying to blend in. No longer - this is my only life and I only need people in my life who like who and what I am. You go!!!!!!
man_jis@reddit (OP)
This is very uplifting, thank you.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Sorry, I’ve edited my post before I read that you had a response.
I know friendships take time. I think it is just a little bit hard for me because I very easily made genuine friendships including with foreigners back in my home country and the experience here has been very different. I guess that is very entitled of me to expect the same.
ihavenosisters@reddit
Making friends is almost like a skill, there are certain activities and things that work better than others. I’ve had to build new friend groups many times and there are definitely activities that make it easier.
I’ve used bumble in the past too and I also go to exercise classes. Has never „worked“ for me.
What has worked really well though are social groups, interest groups like hiking and clubs and being consistent. Keep going every week.
Especially hiking groups are great because you can chat while you walk. I also like climbing clubs, they are social too and here in the UK they often meet weekly at the pub. Great way to meet people consistently.
Other than I play board games so been going to a weekly playing group that meets loosely at a pub. Met so many people through that which also led to me joining a badminton group and a woodworking group and a group of people that casually hangs out.
People say the exact same thing about Japan; it’s impossible to make friends. I had no problems there either. It’s a bit of work in the beginning and might feel weird to put yourself out that much but there are always plenty of people who wouldn’t mind another friend.
What I’m trying to say if friendship is your biggest issue, thats an relatively easy fix and you can definitely do something about it.
hoaryvervain@reddit
Nailed it. I think it’s easy to underestimate how different the perspective is between the newcomer to a place and the people who are from there or have built their lives there. It’s not that they are consciously being unfriendly/racist/hostile in most cases, it’s just that they already have established friend groups, families and community networks.
I am in the process of increasing my time in the UK and even though I am a citizen through a British parent, I know I will always feel like an outside just from not having the same lived experience as the people in my town. It’s just the way it is.
hmich@reddit
Have there been any ILR developments since the announcement last year?
man_jis@reddit (OP)
No, but the 10 year ILR is likely happening.
hmich@reddit
Why exactly? So far it just looks like a populist proposal, no concrete steps were taken yet?
flaneurthistoo@reddit
Look at the totality of the experience and contrast with the push back (and violence!) in Asian nations regarding migrants ( Bangladesh, Myanmar, Pakistan, Cambodian, Thailand, Nepal, Malaysia). The local population is unable to find employment and yet the market is flooded with cheap labor. It also doesn’t help (especially in regards to UK, Australia, USA, etc) the rampant fraud that is being discovered regarding work/study visas (fake degrees, fake jobs, fake documents, shell companies). In addition, think about the resources being skimmed from the host nation through remittances. That is money earned in host nation leaving the country to enhance the coffers of families, businesses abroad. One doesn’t have to a rocket scientist to see why there would be some disdain AND no one is innocent.
Commercial_Ebb_4372@reddit
Born and raised i n the 1980s when we would get attacked on streets, paki bashed, unfortunately the white germanic racism is part of the atheist culture and of trump the white man.
Original_Musician161@reddit
Six years is enough data to know it's not a phase. The harder question is whether you're running away from England specifically or toward something elsewhere — both are valid, but the answer changes what you should do next. Running away from is still a right reason to leave.
Expensive-Worker-582@reddit
Affordable housing in the UK? You must be living up north!!! Im from the south and didnt understand all the comments for 30 years of my life about how the UK has bad weather.... Until I moved to Leeds... I dont think I saw a blue sky for about 3 months at one stage.
I would recommend a city such as Brighton, lots of international students, by the coast, windy but more sunshine than up north. 40 minutes by train to London.
House prices definitely wont be cheap.
Accomplished_Ruin133@reddit
It under appreciated how much the climate changes from the North to the South of the country.
darkazuria@reddit
I'm from the south of France originally and lived in London for about 10 years. Moved to York about 3 years ago and actually didn't notice much difference at all in the weather compared to London, it's the same for me, except maybe we don't get the 35°c+ heatwaves that London sometimes get, but the heat in London is the worst.
Maybe there was no difference for me as the weather whether it's London or York is quite bad in general compared to the south of France so for me it's the same, idk.
FreddyNoodles@reddit
I am a white American. I have lived in SE Asia (Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia), and Europe (Italy, Sweden, Spain and the UK) for 25+ years. I was in Vietnam before, during and after Covid. I had no issues with racism at all that I can speak of so I am really surprised to hear you had that experience. Sorry to hear that. Where in the country were you? I am a woman but my partner is a white Swede and he didn’t have issues, most people were always really friendly to us. I did have quite a few racism issues in Thailand long before Covid, almost always in Bangkok. I was in Thailand for about a decade and Vietnam for 6 years. I am in Cambodia now but I feel it’s time to move on. I have been in Siem Reap for 3 years and it’s gotten a bit boring, honestly. Can only visit the Wats so many times…(And expensive for this part of the world. Very surprising!)
I will never go back to the states but I am thinking it’s time to leave Asia as well. I was always of the opinion if I am thinking of leaving, I probably should have left a year earlier. That last year of hunting for something new and learning what hoops to jump through and getting tired of the same crap that made you want to leave to begin with become really polarizing and ruin a lot of the experience as a whole. It’s a shame but you don’t know until you know.
I know how lucky I am to have had the life I have had and seen the things and been to the places that I have. Almost 60 countries and most for a month or more. That is amazing, I am so happy that I have been able to do that. Most people don’t have these options but again, most don’t want to live abroad and couldn’t survive it for long, regardless. Most of the friends I have made over the years ended up moving back to their home country.
Racism is everywhere. But when I am in a ‘white’ country- I have noticed xenophobia/nationalism is just as bad if not worse. (Especially lately, it’s getting worse by the day it seems) I have had people get very angry with me because they THINK I am local, I look like them, right? But then I speak and that makes them mad for whatever reason. After so many years, you get used to it and you know when to just move on, don’t engage, nothing beneficial will come from that encounter.
OP, you are SE Asia by ethnicity? If you are Vietnamese- which I (maybe stupidly) assume due to the massive amount of American Vietnamese there are in Saigon- you have a lot of options there. The visa is easy for decedents. Saigon itself has really amped up the greenery and parks and international food, etc. Those things are great now imo- especially District 7. I prefer DaNang but I don’t know your career or if you would have options there. I would avoid Hanoi, however.
My point being, have you considered going to your ancestor’s home? You will find many folks just like you and meld right into a ready made group. If you speak the language- even better. If you don’t, they will teach you. And you will have no lack of sun. 🥵I worked with several American and Canadian Vietnamese while living there. All really chill folks. I have met a fair bit of American Cambodians here as well.
On a personal note- I am thinking of the Balkans now. Anyone have some red flags or even green flags I should know about? I am looking specifically at Montenegro and Albania. (Work is not an issue but I do have a dog). I don’t really want to jump on OP’s post but I thought I would ask just in case.
Due_Ear_4674@reddit
Scotland has right to roam so you can walk and camp most places for free.
NoIGnoTwitsNOtktk@reddit
If you have what it takes to become a digital nomad, I’d do it. I’m to old so I am a bit envious who can take advantage of. You can go wherever you want for a few months and see if you like the weather, the environment, the culture.
I know in the 50s-70s there was a large movement of Vietnamese to France because of the war. I don’t know anything else but if they established a SE Asian community, you could visit there and see how you like it.
SE Europe may not be a great option. If you’re considering that DM me and I’ll explain.
But Digital Nomading could be fun, especially if you’re solo. You don’t have to worry about spouse or kid need, wants, opinions. If you don’t like some place you can pack up and move on. If you find a hiking community you might love it.
isthisreallife080@reddit
I get where you’re coming from, and ultimately you’ll have to decide what’s right for you.
I’m American and living in London, in a quieter outer area. I definitely don’t feel the anti-immigrant sentiment as strongly here because it’s such a melting pot of cultures. There is still some racism and xenophobia. I’m not a POC, so I can’t say what your experience would be. Many of my friends are POC and feel very comfortable here, but I know casual - and sometimes less casual - racism isn’t uncommon.
I love the countryside in this area, as well. The Surry Hills, New Forest, South Downs - it’s all very beautiful and accessible from London. Weather is still shit, but not as bad as the North. And I’ve just gotten used to doing what I enjoy regardless of the weather. I’ve got good waterproof hiking boots, leggings, and a raincoat.
Traffic is constant, and probably worse around London than you’re used to. Can’t help you there. But you can take public transit.
I think the challenge with friends is a pretty common difficulty with expats wherever you land. I also had trouble building relationships with British people, and many of my friends have been expats who have come and gone over the years. But I’ve built a network of locals and immigrants over time, and now feel pretty settled. Joining clubs, using Bumble BFF, and being open to lunches and coffee meet ups with coworkers and friends of friends really helped.
I don’t have an answer to what’s the right call for you - just sharing my own experience. Good luck!
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Thank you for sharing your experience. It’s very helpful. I am considering a move down South.
I guess it doesn’t matter if the friends I’ve made are British or not. I am very grateful to have expat friends who share my experience. The weather I think I can deal with, but would need to find activities to make up for it. London sounds like there is plenty to do.
moonangeles@reddit
I was born I in London, grew up outside of the UK and then moved back at 17 and spent most of my adult life there until moving to California. London is probably the only place I would live in the UK. It’s truly diverse and incredibly multi-cultural. Out of my closest 10 friends that I made in London, maybe only one is a white Brit. Nothing against them obviously, it’s just London is that diverse so you end up being friends with people from different countries or different ethnicities who are British. Your experience would be so different compared to living in the North. Since you already live there, you might as well experience living in London before moving somewhere else, in my opinion! I’m sorry it sucked so far, hope your new chapter will be better.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Any areas in London you would recommend?
Formal_Chicken461@reddit
I am British but married to a non British
Weather is way better in London compared to up North. I grew up in a northern city and would NEVER return. So much rain. Windy. I remember one time there was a 10deg different temperature between London and my childhood city city. London summers are beautiful.
My husband (and now baby) are noticeably non British and in London we all blend in, no one looks twice , but not the same up north. I have seen the looks from some people when we visited my childhood city even if my husband didn't notice. Also sorry if people will not like this, and yes its a generalisation, but London has a high % of educated people living and working alongside foreigners from around the world who will not care where you come from. Up North, depending on the area some cities are really deprived / social problems and that naturally leads (struggling or less educated british people) to throw blame around to immigrants for problems which were never due to immigrants.
dangermouse40@reddit
Move to New Zealand. You miss the connectivity to Europe, but gain all the nature walks haha
WritingDizzy2320@reddit
The problem stems from the pound being crap its not strong they keep borrowing money its horrible man it aint a way to run a country.
The problem is they dont care no energy cap is a joke the public are useless and dont care makes me sick.
The just isnt rich it cant grow gbp spending has increased it really cant be good for a country they keep wasting it as usual.
Xeon_Blade@reddit
As a brit I can get behind everything in this post except your complaints about outdoor hobbies. The north of the UK and Scotland have world class access to nature and national parks, get a car and get out to the Dales of the Lakes!
ConstructionAdept130@reddit
Have you tried not being asian? That may help.
Mediocre_Exam1930@reddit
Interesting
Imgayforpectorals@reddit
It's kind of interesting that on Reddit, if you're against mass immigration, you're automatically labeled a racist, far right fascist. No nuance or critical thinking at all.
Imagine going back to your hometown and seeing that the people, the signs, and everything around you are now in different languages, with a completely different culture and religion. Poverty and crime rates are rising too.
I think immigrants like you or me are fine. What many people are concerned about is large scale illegal immigration and uncontrolled refugee flows. Immigration between EU/Schengen countries has always been normalized, but this feels different to many people.
Most people in the UK wouldn't mind Americans moving there to work. We all know the type of immigration being discussed, so there's no need to pretend otherwise.
As always these comments get heavily downvoted on this social media, but keep in mind anti-immigration sentiment in the US is completely different than in Europe.
And no matter how much you try to integrate you will never be perceived as one of them. You will always be the American dude/woman.
Belmagick@reddit
Unfortunately I think the political climate is difficult in a lot of places. Certainly England, it seems like it is the US if the headlines are accurate, and I’ve heard similar stories in Canada and even now it seems Australia.
I think if you’re not happy and you’re lucky enough to have the option to move, you should move and experience life somewhere else, even just for a year or two to help discover what you like and don’t like.
You said you have SE Asian heritage. Is a working holiday or short term visa over there an option? Even just to give yourself a break to think about what you want.
i was very close to going to Vietnam and spending a year or two teaching English when I met my husband. It’s a very different lifestyle but I met a few people while travelling who now live in SE Asia and love it.
The world isn’t just the Anglo-sphere.
Raneynickel4@reddit
The UK has gone down the toilet. Leave, because there are sooo many better places to be (not America - it's more of a shithole than the UK right now).
Signed, a British Asian guy who is much happier somewhere else in Europe
B3stThereEverWas@reddit
lol no it isn't, not by a long shot. And I've been travelling between both lately.
Imgayforpectorals@reddit
The US is always going to be a circus.
Raneynickel4@reddit
For a non-white person, yes it is. Silly yank
InvincibleMirage@reddit
I’m of Indian origin. Born in London, but have spent my life between London and Toronto in Canada and also spent sometime in NYC and LA. I think you need to spend more time in the US. It’s nowhere near as bad as you’re saying and most people are very kind.
B3stThereEverWas@reddit
After travelling 40 states of the US over the last 2 years I've realised that anyone who tries to stereotype the entire US is an utter moron whose opinion is worthless.
CongruentDesigner@reddit
Nope
Source: Brown non-American who travels there frequently
B3stThereEverWas@reddit
No it isn't you stupid twat
Source: A Non American brown person
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Has your experience of racism been better where you moved to?
Raneynickel4@reddit
I would say so. Although Denmark has a reputation for being a really hostile country to foreigners, I would say people have been a LOT more welcoming than I imagined/read about. I thought people would just assume that I could never be Danish because I am not white but when I am not in touristy areas shopkeepers etc try to talk to me in Danish, which is nice. I think muslims and middle eastern people have a really bad reputation hence they are treated quite poorly in general, but other minorities are treated better.
Even the immigration officers, who are the most miserable people earth, are generally friendly - one time I remember in particular was when I came back from a holiday and showed my residence card she handed it back and said "welcome back" with a smile.
Although it's worth remembering there's racism everywhere you go as an asian person, even in Asia. Koreans are happy to put up signs like "No thais or filipinos" outside bars because they hate SEAs.
AwkwardRent5758@reddit
The UK is not worse than anywhere else. In the countryside and where education is not high you'll always face the same situations. London and the south east is a different beast. You'll find people from everywhere and it is much easier to connect with brits. Maybe before leaving you want give one last try to London. Find a job and then relocate there. Mind the living style is much higher than in the rest of the country so you need to add a good % to your actual salary.
c0astferrari@reddit
most of england is pretty racist and undeveloped. believe it or not but london is probably the one place where you could really thrive as a non white professional. move here and dream big.
Eastern_Weather_8748@reddit
The UK is a horrible place to be, even without the immigration issues, more so with the immigrations issues.
Not as horrible as India for example, that’s a whole other level of horror, but horrible for European standards.
You’d better be in the sun surrounded by family and friends. Nothing in the UK is worth staying as an outsider, because that’s what you’ll always be.
Been there done that.
I’m white btw for you racial pricks.
Even-Bit9857@reddit
Hahaha been there done that! Yep nothing beats being home with family and friends. All that euro travel and “free” healthcare is not worth the feeling of being an immigrant with no real community after being one place for years. Wish covid never happened I would have left and went back to America sooner.
Sure-Plastic6885@reddit
Move further south to a big city. Weather up north is considerably worse. And if you want a good hike I can recommend kinder scout via crowden Clough. Or go up to the lakes or Scotland. Beautiful walks. I'm sorry the immigrant sentiment is like that, people are absolutely bizarre about the NHS in general and can't apparently distinguish between illegal immigrants and highly qualified people we actively want and need.
JuniApocalypse@reddit
The is hostility to foreigners everywhere. I am also from USA and living abroad. It's something I just need to accept, realizing not everyone is that way. In USA it is hard to make real friends too, even if you're from there. At least that was my experience. Since 2020 especially, people are very closed off.
Glassic_Glam_Gars@reddit
Go back home then lol
Seriously, go back home where you know you’ll be happier. Life is too short.
lazerkitty3555@reddit
Yeah I think alot of people don't feel community - its hard to feel that ... liked OPs comment ... home is no longer home but only what you remember as home which is distant. Your comment - Life is too short rings true in these crazy times. Just have to have enough to go live life... Asset vacuuming baby boomers not helping us any
man_jis@reddit (OP)
lol. Maybe this is the only answer I need to hear.
Glassic_Glam_Gars@reddit
Maybe you just need to go home for a while to recover before returning to the uk at least.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
I do need a little reminder of why I left lol.
Edmond-Cristo@reddit
))
AbbreviationsDue2568@reddit
I left England in August '25. I hated everything at that point. I told my job of 9 years to F off. Four weeks later I loaded my car with all I could, and moved to Málaga in Spain. I have not been back to the UK. It's a grind, but fully worth it.
Crazy_Maintenance211@reddit
I found it interesting to read what you wrote because in Canada immigrants are being targeted for similar things, it’s really interesting that we’ve changed significantly in the last two years. There’s much more racism and anti-immigrant sentiment, especially where I live in rural. It wasn’t much fun before if you weren’t white but now it’s gone back to like the 50s and I think it’s even worse because people are kind of proud of their racism. Plus, inflation is just causing people to lose their heads even people who are decent are now really blaming immigrants and we all know where that leads and it isn’t good. One tip I can give you, find people who understand at least what you’re going through. It sounds like you’re really isolated where you are and I’ve been through that with different factors. Make a huge effort to find people like you, because at least then you’ll find connection. Reading your post you haven’t found connection and yes, the new location is better but you’re longing for connection because then even the racist crap you can at least talk to people about it who understand it. That’s what I would recommend.
Crazy_Maintenance211@reddit
Also, if you can find connection even temporarily where you can figure out, are you in the right place? You may not be, but there’s a lot of this everywhere now. So finding people who will at least understand will give you something to anchor you while you can figure out what you do.
Economy-Reading-2811@reddit
Move to London. Issue solved
getulconsulting@reddit
L’Angleterre, c’est un super pays, les Anglais c’est des superbes personnes globalement c’est un pays accueillant mais il faut comprendre la frustration il veuille que leur pays reste avec une culture britannique Ils savent reconnaître les qualités humaines et professionnel ! Maintenant on peut Fear partout dans le monde, mais on peut pas fuir soi-même…
Anonymo123@reddit
not a Brit but I am there for many weeks out of the year for work and the anti-immigration is only going to get worse. I travel to London primarily and those folks are not happy with all the illegal immigration and their country being taken over. I have found pockets of folks who are ok with things, but the continued decline of their govt and society is drawing some of those in.
IMO they are on the path to some level of a "mass reset", might not be a good idea to be there when they do.
Good luck to you, i personally couldn't stand the weather like I can't stand it in Seattle lol
Treefrog54321@reddit
I’ve just returned from living in the USA to the U.K. and my husband is Asian American. When he was here he preferred places like Richmond, Brighton, Putney in London.
I think the South in and around London is better weather, easier access to more things if you’re near London and just a different vibe than the North (some prefer it, some don’t).
I hear you as I miss a lot in Colorado and NY, especially the weather and how expansive it is.
It’s horrible not finding your place and friendships groups, but to be honest even people born in the UK (like me) can struggle to find the location that feels like home and build friendship.
Good luck!
18297gqpoi18@reddit
I’m from HCOL in the states. I’ve lived in London for 3 years. The reason I left was a low paycheck. I was considered getting paid a lot (£115k) however there was no raise over 3 years. I got sick of it and moved back to the states. Glad I made that move.
And yeah racism is rampant in the UK. I’m East Asian. I’ve received racist comments gesture that I’ve never experienced in the states. These Brits look so uneducated and stupid. lol.
Anyway. Not going back there. London is expensive but pay is shit. I don’t know if people get to save any.
Boring-Air-5163@reddit
"American"
Canada Germany Russia China Japan Japan Japan Venezuela Britain Korea Cuba Cuba Cuba Iran Iran Iran Vietnam And Aliens from Outer Space have filed a grievance against the United States.
tomorrow509@reddit
London town is the place to be. The weather still sucks but life is good in the home counties.
Loose_Seal_II@reddit
I'm of white, British and Irish descent and honestly I have felt the exact same as an immigrant in the UK recently. Especially with tensions in the US, I have been noticing people will hear my accent and the level of politeness I used to experience here is gone. It's actually so noticeable that my British partner has noticed it. And I'm Canadian. 😅
I've recently decided to leave and am moving at the end of the summer to Europe. I hope you find what you're looking for
ubfeo@reddit
It might not be your fault but people don't like you because of what immigrants are doing to the nation and its people.
As things get worse I'm sure they won't like you even more. Something to think about.
bigchiefdarkcloud@reddit
You live in the North, have you tried hiking in the Lake District? Some fantastic hikes there and warm welcome for all.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Hi. I’ve been to the Lake District a few times. I’ve It’s very beautiful. I’ve also been to Wales a lot, walked through the Northumberland coast, lived in the Yorkshire Dales, and currently live near the Peak District. I love these areas.
Housekhat@reddit
It sure isn't going to be better in America!! Forget coming here. You'll find sun and outdoors but with more issues than in GB.
B-Profit8097@reddit
I have lived in Japan in 2008. I had friends, partner and food was great. Of course there were racist comments/treatment. You have that in every country. Sometimes you known it’s not the right country. I knew after a year. Sometimes you have to take the risk to Stadt over again.
I moved to the uk and it took a while to make good reliable British friends. I made friends via meet ups, joining classes. Maybe join a support football team in your area. I did charity work and met lots of friends.
mjratchada@reddit
I come from a Southeast Asian background also, but my experience is different to yours. From my experience, people in the South tend to be more tolerant than they are in the North. Seen this at several client sites in Leeds, Bradford, Halifax, Manchester, Liverpool, and Hull. What I noticed was that people were more accepting in rural communities, but you were in the North. I saw a similar pattern in Scotland; the biggest issues were in urban centres. Social class is a big factor, also.
Given your issues with the climate, South East Europe might be a good consideration. As for the hiking I live close to London, I can walk in the local park and only see the odd dog. If I go into the forest, I usually only see a couple of people. The UK has about 15% of its land mass being forested, and 1/3 of that is in public ownership. So your comment on this is strange.
_3JET@reddit
lol i see you're also experiencing the extended Northern winter. i moved from the South - people are about 25% less friendly and the weather is about 10% better. if you're in a position to leave, go for it
ukfi@reddit
I am Asian, grown up in se Asia and then moved to London for 30 years.
I had worked in the North of UK for projects before and have seen what it is.
First of all, the weather. There's nothing as bad weather in the UK. Just bad clothing. You need a good water proof jacket, water proof boots and pants. A good base layer. Embrace the good old British weather. I am now back in se Asia and I really missed the winter rain.
As for racism, they are everywhere. I worked in the city and there's a lot less of that. In fact, white Londoners are the minority. I don't think I know of more than ten ppl in my circle that's white and born in London. Almost all of my friends and immediate circle are either born outside London (from the UK) or born somewhere else in the world and moved here.
"Mrs. Brown says that in London everyone is different, and that means anyone can fit in." - when I heard this in paddington bear, I almost cried. It's true.
Come on down to London. You might like it.
Single_Group_9696@reddit
Go to the USA I don’t like England too it’s exhausting
alexnapierholland@reddit
Brit here.
I wouldn't say, 'Go home' as your criticisms seem reasonable.
I would tell someone to 'go home' if they simply hated British culture.
Unfortunately, the UK's insane open borders policies have harmed the many polite, hard-working immigrants who want to play ball, contribute and integrate nicely into British society.
By allowing in people who want to extract without contributing, we've empowered the far-Right and given them a vast, rich treasure trove of reasons to oppose immigration.
It's a total own-goal for diversity, ironically.
I'm currently in Portugal, which has fantastic weather.
Unfortunately, it's got a very anti-business economic climate.
But we're told 'Go home' if we express any critique: even though we want a more prosperous Portugal with high salary, technical jobs for locals.
To answer your question, if I had to leave in the UK again it would be somewhere like Cornwall.
It's warmer and has good outdoor activities, although you never escape the volatility of UK weather.
5LaLa@reddit
You asked, their answer starts with, “haha no” but, you think your impression is accurate?
5LaLa@reddit
I dunno. Look at what you listed as benefits to living there vs what you’d give all that up for to have, “surrounded by friendly people & a few more days of sunshine.” A larger city would give you more opportunities to meet friendly people & you can easily travel to sunnier places for a weekend or day/overnight trip.
Obviously, you’re the only one that can decide but, America is on a rapid decline & becoming more unaffordable by the day. I know the COL is rising everywhere; but, imho the security of having decent healthcare, not fearing I’ll die or go bankrupt if I become ill due to having crap insurance that costs a fortune, that would be priceless (to me.)
US vs UK seems like a no brainer but, maybe you’re considering other countries (where there’s a chance of being surrounded by friendly people lol.) If I lived abroad, no way would I come back to US in the next few years, too much volatility & chaos atm. Whatever you decide, good luck!
SiteRelEnby@reddit
Always remember: It's grim up north. The south is much nicer.
AcousticMayo@reddit
A lot of the problems you mentioned are completely fixed by moving to Scotland
fromazores@reddit
I’m not sure but I think that in All Europe at this moment immigrant/exparts above 30 years are dealing with this.
Everyone seems to confuse those who only want to receive money with those who immigrate and choose a country and contribute effectively to the well-being (economic, professional, social) of that country.
Basically, they use us and accuse us of being to blame for everything that is less good that may be happening in the country.
I'm not in the UK. I'm in NL and I'm from another country in the European Union and when I came to NL I came through an international recruitment to work in the health area, which is short of staff here.
I've never had access (nor looked for) benefits in my country and I didn't have them here in NL either. That's not why I emigrated. I actively contributed to the improvement of the health system in NL, I am learning the language, I try to get to know the culture as much as possible and integrate.
Still, making friends with people here has been immensely difficult and I've heard a lot of xenophobic comments
I'm speechless. And the conclusion I came to is that all immigrant/expart workers who are currently in Europe are somehow facing this kind of problem
It is a very sad situation
MidtownJunk@reddit
I'm a Brit...I wouldn't live there!
tylerthe-theatre@reddit
Now you are truly British my friend
East-Fun455@reddit
I'm asoutheast asian expat and living here too, albeit in London. Integrating with British culture from the outside is very much of a thing - probably for all cultures, but it's easy to think it won't be a big deal if you come from another english-speaking country. I don't think I would feel at home here if I wasn't integrated. I have only 1 expat friend and that has always been the case. I am ethnically Chinese, and I do know a lot of British Chinese people, but they are still extremely culturally British. You have to be up for essentially spending most of your time in a culture that isn't your own, in order to grow the kind of roots that make it feel like home.
Yes there's the anti immigrant sentiment, but to be honest everywhere has that now it's not specific to the UK. There are times when I think about it, but if I'm honest I'm applying stereotypes as well - e.g. I wonder if my cabbie neighbour thinks I shouldn't be here, but outside of my thoughts all our interactions are very friendly, and I try to remind myself not to be paranoid.
I qualified for ILR under the 10 year route, which is the same as what has been proposed as the new order. I know a doubling of anything doesn't feel good, but also, the time passed quick, I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it. This was perhaps only an easy option for me because I work the kind of job where it is easy to find visa sponsors, but to be honest, I can't argue with the brutal economic logic of the country wanting to pick and choose who they will let set up shop here. My country of origin and frankly most countries do the same: they would like to only have the kind of immigration that is net economically positive, and it's understandable that a country would want to take that position.
zotzey@reddit
Moving to London or Brighton might help ease some of your struggles. People are less racist, more open minded, and the weather is better. Though obviously the cost of living is a lot higher.
As someone who is also being fucked over by these new ILR rules I feel your pain ❤️
Low_Stress_9180@reddit
Well an an Englishman who left Britain to be an expat for 20 years I agree with you. And it got worse a lot in last 20 years especially afyee Brexit madness. I visit my mum every year and you notice it more when you do that, as slow changes are harder ro spot.
Best to leave little England.
Maxxibonn@reddit
Living in the countryside? “Big city” in the north? All wrong choices for the UK.
The only city where makes sense to live in England is London, but living there is unbearable unless you have a good salary and can live in upmarket boroughs. The weather isn’t great but it’s much better than where you are.
For the rest of the UK, I would only choose Edinburgh as an alternative city to live in, but the weather is even worst than where you are.
Now that the UK is out of the EU, there are no reasons to live there.
Can you move to the EU or somewhere else legally? Can you speak other languages?
You would have a much better quality of life in many EEA countries.
P.S.: I do miss London and I wish I had a house there, but my life has only improved since I’m back on the continent.
AngelOfLastResort@reddit
I'm white South African and I speak English natively. South Africa was even a British colony, so in theory we have similar culture right?
Wrong. I've been here for 6 years and none of my friends are British. They aren't hostile to me but they aren't friendly either.
So, it's not just you. English people are just more culturally closed than people from warmer weather nations. Everyone I'm friends with are expats and none of them are friends with British people.
With regards to the weather, yes it sucks and it won't get better. Either make your peace with it or move somewhere else. Maybe move to Spain on a digital nomad visa, I don't know. But it doesn't sound like England is working for you.
Gullible_Passion_331@reddit
Immigration (basically from non western countries) has been out of control in the UK, and so a lot of innocent people like yourself will get caught up in the backlash.
It sounds like you’ve made your mind up. If you haven’t got family or connections, then what’s the point in staying in any country?
Unhappy_Performer538@reddit
I’m just gonna say anywhere that you go outside of your own home country it’s really really hard to make friends with local people and most people end up with expat friends. As far as the racism, I don’t think that that’s much better than most of the rest of Europe either and if you go back to the state, you may find your bubble of friends and other people that look like you, but then you’d be in the states Which isn’t great right now so it’s up to you what you really want.
magrandan@reddit
If you are feeling bad now, just wait when reform and Farage win in 2028/29, it’s going to be absolute shit show. Get your popcorn ready.
LouisePoet@reddit
Nowhere is perfect. Some places are better than others.
The great part about being an immigrant or expat is that we've already done it once--we can move again.
I'm not saying "go home then," but I do wonder why people stay anywhere if they truly hate it.
Hopeful_Hunt6988@reddit
Theres no paradise in western countries its hell disguised as success
ExternalUserError@reddit
I think to some extent, yours is the experience of immigrants everywhere right now. Just all over the world, politicians have figured out they can scapegoat foreigners for their own governments’ failures.
The post-WW2 consensus that you shouldn’t hold someone’s race or national origin against them is dead for at least 30 to 40% of people in basically all western societies.
Level-Courage6773@reddit
Ypu mebtuibed affordable housing.
Whatever you do, don't move to the south.
No_Tap1188@reddit
It begs the question: Why the eff were you obligated to go to and live there for 6 friggin years?
imakemistakesbuthey@reddit
Im so sorry you’re going through that. It makes me really sad that people are believing the tripe being peddled by reform and their ilk.
Sadly, we’re a pretty small island that has been pretty heavily industrialised or at least urbanised, so you can’t get far from people ever…
There are some great forests in Wales/the south west/scotland though!
Try the Forest of Dean, Kielder forest or Pucks Glen for a start - they’re incredible.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Oi, Kielder is Northumbrian not Scottish!
magicsign@reddit
You should move to London if you can afford it. Here you'll feel much more welcomed (40% are born outside uk), we have amazing parks (huge, where you can walk for hours), nearby forests if you like, free museum, unlimited activities to do, one of the best food scenes in the world.
Obviously you can't compare the weather to Spain but it is nicer compare to the north.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
I would solidly advise against this.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Brits on this subreddit are generally those who also came to the conclusion they didn't want to live in the UK so you aren't going to get pushback from us.
The one thing I would say is that Europe in general is never as wild as North America - the population density is higher and more uniform, but in some bits of the north there are pretty wild places.
Try Northumberland national park.
Regarding racial intolerance. It just depends a lot on area. Some bits are more reform uk style than others. It's not even as simple as urban / rural or north / south.
killinnnmesmallz@reddit
I don't think there's much to gain by moving south; all you'll get is higher COL and unfriendlier people.
It sounds like the UK as a whole isn't a match for you. If you feel like you can't leave, however, then I'd recommend trying to build your network of British friends. I'm American and I play tag and touch rugby as well as netball, which has allowed me to meet more locals. Most of my friends now are British and that helps me feel a sense of belonging.
ContextRules@reddit
This seems like a quite personal decision and anyone else's opinion wouldnt matter much. Im not from southeast Asia, so I dont have your experiences and it is shitty that people behave differently toward different immigrant groups. I love the weather personally even though I am meant to whinge about it. A place to live and make a home is highly personal. What is brilliant for one person would be a hell for another. For me, I weighed the achievable options and made the best decision for myself at the time and it was the UK. For me it was the best decision and now those in my life (100% British or Irish people no fellow expats) consider me British as well in all but accent. I did make a concerted effort from the start to fully immerse in the culture and I look British so that is a huge difference. Racism is unfortunately real.
man_jis@reddit (OP)
Thank you for acknowledging this. I’m happy it’s worked out well for you!
peachypeach13610@reddit
It’s becoming apparent that the “the UK is a safe haven of multiculturalism and far less racist than the rest of Europe” notion is clearly just PR.