SWE Union
Posted by Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 114 comments
Hi I know it’s been talked about and I know EU is organizing. It’s possibly too late but I’m curious if anyone know about anything in motion. Obviously this is something we desperately need now.
Suspicious_State_318@reddit
Historically unions have been for blue collar workers because they faced the most exploitation for the least pay. Im sorry but software engineering is an incredibly overpriced profession. In the EU the salaries for software engineers are much much more realistic and it’s largely because they didn’t have the obsessive startup culture that the US had and got stuck on this idea that you need rockstar genius iq developers to make your standard run of the mill crud app.
We just work in IT. And there’s nothing wrong with that at all.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I don’t think you understand the existential threat we’re all facing. Look if you’re building server racks and doing data center installs cool you’re excluded. I’m talking about people writing code. If you’re in that camp you’re fully cooked by ai in the next 6 months whether you realize it or not
Suspicious_State_318@reddit
If we were to unionize, how would you prevent AI from taking our jobs? Our only bargaining chip is our labor. If AI can replace us as workers, then we have no leverage.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Exactly, that’s why if we’re gonna act we need to do so soon.
Suspicious_State_318@reddit
Act and do what?
CodeBlue_04@reddit
I'm a vested Teamster from a previous career. If my company went union I'd quit and find another one.
I have absolutely no desire to carry underperforming coworkers in perpetuity, nor fight with management every day over what is or isn't in the contract while my business agent breathes down my neck because I'm productive.
Been there, done that. I'll pass.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I hear you, and while that may be true in some respects for some unions. I’d rather carry some low performers and have protections for our jobs in the near future than ai to completely eradicate the profession — which believe me will happen.
CodeBlue_04@reddit
If it's going to happen, unions will only be a speedbump and we'll have lots of other, more urgent societal problems to deal with at that time.
But I don't believe that it's going to happen, because I regularly see what AI does without a senior dev to shepherd it to the right conclusions.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I hear that but if you’re still thinking this way it’s because your company doesn’t have the right infra yet. Trust me the whole shepherding ai thing was just for the past couple years. That’s about to be over very soon
CodeBlue_04@reddit
I'm at a major, F200 software company working with 20 other SWEs on a large code base.
We've been asked to spend every Friday focusing on AI for months now. In the last 2-3 years I've cycled through Copilot, Cursor, Augment, and now we have Claude Enterprise, where I've never run into a token limit (unlike with Cursor).
I know exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe you don't. Or maybe your org just accepts poor quality code.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I work at one of the big ai companies. I’m not going to say who for obvious reasons. I’m not trying to one up you my friend but what’s going on at your company is far behind where we’re at. Things are about to change big time
CodeBlue_04@reddit
Then the industry is already doomed and unions won't help. Unions are businesses, and they'll see the writing on the wall that it's more effort than it's worth to organize a bunch of devs for <5 years of work before everyone gets laid off.
I'd rather keep my sanity with my remaining time in this industry than fucking loathe everyone I interact with every day like I did when I was a Teamster.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
It may already be doomed. I guess I was hoping someone would say yeah it’s forming! Or formed. It’s ok you don’t have to believe me now it’ll be everywhere soon and you’ll get it then. Thanks for your thoughts and participation on the subject
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
Aren't unions pretty gatekeepy? I feel like it's harder to break in fields that are unionized
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
There’s so many downsides but there’s no downside that compares to the death of our entire field. Without a union there will be no software engineers left before too long.
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
That's an assumption not a fact. If you want people to join your cause, you need to start off on a factual premise.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
It’s assumption that’s heavily based on evidence. AI is replacing engineers now. Trust me it’s gonna replace everyone. If you’re working on Claude or windsurf or whatever directly it’s cool I understand how you think this may not happen. I thought the same for the past several years bc I’m very senior at a huge company and have been doing this and even ai for a long time.
Plz believe me when I say our time has come
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
Well there are a lot of people that disagree with you
So who do I believe?
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I’ve got a front row seat my friend bc I’m luckily still working. I don’t need to believe. I know.
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
A lot of people that disagree with you are also still working. And software engineering is quite a diverse field. Sooo
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
It’s ok my friend! Not everyone has to get it right now. But you will soon unfortunately. Sounds like you moved from FAANG to another company where things are fairly sane atm. I hope you get to ride that out for a while. Maybe there will be a union when you’re ready
CodeBlue_04@reddit
Not the Teamsters. There aren't exactly apprenticeships for driving garbage trucks.
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
I think unionizing in tech would lead to gatekeeping, cuz I've seen that in some competitive trades
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
You’re right, but it’s better than nothing
also_also_bort@reddit
Weren’t you a teamster at your former job? You forget to switch accounts?
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
What are you even talking about
Look at my username, I'm not the same guy
I work in tech, never worked a union job but my understanding is that unions are gatekeepy. I'm asking a simple question but instead your moronic ass wants to dunk on me. Typical weird redditor behavior
Unique-Influence-549@reddit
GOT EM
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
Whatchu talking about lil bro, he confused me for someone else
ltdanimal@reddit
You aren't supposed to say that.
Your supposed to look at unions with rise colored glasses and say how they are absolutely critical and amazing.
And make sure to put anyone that doesn't share your optimism into a "boot licker" or "shill" bucket.
All while just being a keyboard warrior.
CodeBlue_04@reddit
It's fun to watch seemingly the only people with relevant experience get downvoted.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I really appreciate people in previous unions weighing in. Your experience is invaluable and I’m all ears and not downvoting anyone. We can learn from all sides
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Hey we’re engineers we can talk trade offs amiright
frooook@reddit
Lol you gonna do that anyway with or without the union.
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
Nope. At top companies, underperformers are laid off. Your coworkers are more likely to be extremely competent as a result.
Sammolaw1985@reddit
"Competent at office politics."
I think you left out a few words you tool.
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
Also, at extremely large companies, office politics matter little. Layoffs are based on pure metrics
Sammolaw1985@reddit
You're gonna get diabetes from all that Kool aid.
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
Alright man. My point is, that having to carry bad engineers is not a universal truth. At certain companies, the bar is high enough meaning that everyone is pretty good
Sammolaw1985@reddit
If everyone's so good why are all the FAANGs cutting 10+% of their workforce while also posting record breaking profits. I mean you said it yourself everyone's pretty good so why cut when the spigot is still going?
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
I don't think ur statement disproves my statement. I was moreso talking about stack ranking
But even in this case, when companies layoff for economic reasons, they try to lay off the least productive or least important employees. At faang companies, they tend to have a more accurate depiction of productivity
Sammolaw1985@reddit
Lol you're a finance bros wet dream in the flesh.
Big_Arrival_626@reddit
How am I antisocial?
Have you ever worked for a Faang company?
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Used to be this way my friend but trust me when I say things are different now. If they aren’t different for you yet give it six months. Keep an open mind and trust your colleagues. The time of competing against other swes is over. The time for banding together to do what’s right is here
nderflow@reddit
It's more about who you hire than who you fire.
maria_la_guerta@reddit
I also was in the autoworker union for one of the Big 3, one of the oldest and "best" around. Hating that job so much is why I learned to code and got into tech lol. FYI in 2026 new workers have still not gotten back all of the concessions they gave up in 2008, and pensions have decreased steadily in basically every contract since. That's the ugly side of collective bargaining you don't hear about.
Couldn't agree more.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
You’re right, I get it there are downsides. It’s why swes have not organized thus far, but the game has changed so maybe we should start considering it. Better than our jobs being gone
GongtingLover@reddit
If we have to do that, it's honestly already over.
amlug_@reddit
I work in Norway. Unions here are more generic like STEM workers union (tekna) or Engineers and Technologist union (nito) rather than profession specific. In addition to main benefits such as negotiating minimum raise percentage, providing legal support, help reviewing job contract etc. you also get some deals with banks regarding better loan & saving account rates, cheaper insurance etc.
Unfortunately many have a memory of a goldfish and think rights and protections we have in place today came from heavens. Look no further than how workers treated in Japan, China, India etc. What do you think protects you from that? Golden heart of corporate CEOs? On top of my mind, people were killed because they demanded 8 hour workday instead of 16...
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Hi Norway! Does your union go to bat for worker protections? Could you share any info so we can learn in the USA what’s working for you.
amlug_@reddit
I've just remembered a practical example. For instance if you're affected by a layoff (no fault of yours), you have right to be rehired if the company starts hiring for same position again for within some time period. Your department has been cut but another department is hiring, you get a priority. They need to present a proper reason to reject you.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
That alone is amazing!
amlug_@reddit
They do, and they'll likely to help you even if you're not a member. But effectiveness of the unions goes hand to hand with the law. They can't give workers any arbitrary protections, they can only make sure that everything is done by the book. And they can organize strikes to influence the policy makers to make new laws or amend existing ones.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
True. I think many in the us also lobby politicians.
nsyx@reddit
This group isn't a union, but they have lots of good resources and advice for people trying to organize, especially in difficult situations. They're very experienced. Get into their communication channels and I bet they'd help you out.
https://class-struggle-action.net
Unlikely_Secret_5018@reddit
Meta workers are getting shafted by Zuck every day, who also telegraphs his upcoming shafting dreams. Injecting tracking software straight into their eyeballs via VR.
I'm surprised the engineers there aren't all unionized - it's their only way to fight back.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Yeah this will be everywhere soon :/
wrex1816@reddit
I see this post all the time but never see anyone explain how exactly they plan to form one and where exactly this imaginary union will get it's leverage over big tech companies from?
If someone can explain it, and put it into action, great. But 5 million of these posts later, I'm still waiting to hear it.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I wasn’t considering starting one myself honestly but I was curious if one was in action so I could get involved.
wrex1816@reddit
But that doesn't answer the question. I'm all for a union that is effective but nobody can ever answer.
Why would you want to join union that you know nothing about. Wouldn't you want to know how they operate, what dues they expect, what their policies are, how the support workers, and what leverage they have over companies so they are actually useful?
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I’ve done a lot to community organizing and typically it just starts like this a question. Then typically there’s an action. It’s unorganized but then evolves into the kind of framework you’re thinking about. Those are good questions and yes should be defined.
But as we know as software engineers you don’t moonshot the whole project in one diff, you iterate incrementally
wrex1816@reddit
I'm sorry but this sounds like a whole lot of deflection. My questions shouldn't be terribly difficult to answer for anyone in favor of unionizing.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Not trying to deflect but how can I answer questions about an organizational framework that would be driven by members of an organization that don’t exist yet?
I think in general the leverage a real and established tech workers union could have is bring ai development to a halt in the us if we wanted. Things like that could be a bargaining chip for members getting what they feel they need.
For the rest of your questions I’d just look up how other unions work in industries to get a feel for what’s possible :)
polaroid_kidd@reddit
Wow.. the shills are really coming out the woodworks fast and hard on this thread...
I wonder why....
Leather-Rice5025@reddit
Yeah this thread will be removed. Any talk of unionizing is inevitably removed because it isn’t “relevant” to being a software dev. Whatever that means.
teknoise@reddit
Which is insane. I’m a developer, I’m in a union, it’s not as scary as some would like to think.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Hi what union are you in? Can you share more details? A lot of us would like to learn
teknoise@reddit
I work for a govnt adjacent organization, the union unfortunately isn’t specific for devs but for “support staff” at the org so it includes devs but also the guys installing projectors and such. It’s not an amazing union, in that they don’t have a ton of influence compared to the other unions at the org, but it does come with great job security and benefits at the expense of salary. I would make more elsewhere for sure, no question. But I don’t log into work worrying it’ll be my last day at any moment. So there’s tradeoffs.
This is in Canada btw. It’s not uncommon to find union dev jobs in govnt, unis, health care, etc. it’s extremely uncommon to find union dev jobs in Canada in the private sector.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Thanks for sharing, what’s the union called? I want to look it up so I can understand more
throwaway_0x90@reddit
Time to lose more karma!
I think it's ridiculous for USA SWEs to want unions. We must be among the top 2% best jobs to have in this country. Probably 2nd only to doctors.
false79@reddit
hold my beer, lol
throwaway_0x90@reddit
heh, I'm absolutely serious. Someone is about to blow my mind if there even 3 jobs on planet Earth paying more than a mid-level USA SWE and similar work/life balance; especially since the pandemic a lot of these jobs are still remote or hybrid.
Because I can't even think of one other than doctors and I suspect some could argue being a doctor is more stressful.
Maybe selling real estate to extremely affluent people is better. Work for 3 months of the year and sell maybe 3 homes, the commission could be good enough not to work for the rest of the year.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
On this point I think we’re about to see a massive decline in pay. You’re right software used to be very expensive to build and take a lot of training but now it requires neither money or training
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Buddy if you’re at google and don’t realize what’s happening then google is farther behind than I thought! It’s not about advocating for more pay it’s about advocating for fair treatment, workers rights and our jobs period.
throwaway_0x90@reddit
I wanna say a bunch of stuff but I know the mods will delete this post in less than 24rs and I'll delete all my comments anyway.
But... I just looked it up and I'm surprised to learn that some doctors are in unions. I didn't even know that 5 minutes ago.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
It’s about protecting ourselves and using any leverage we have while we still have it! I’m learning too during this forum, Ty for bringing your thoughts to the table
Key-Organization3158@reddit
Your conclusion is false. We don't need a union nor would we benefit from one.
Salaries and benefits are much better in the US because we have a a more fluid labor market. Layoffs suck, but the alternative is keeping talent in areas where they don't fit anymore. Every contract or regulation comes at a tradeoff. Hiring becomes more conservative, more credential focused.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
AI is about to change all of that for us. I agree it’s unappealing but I think it’s time bc we need protections and collective bargaining
wrex1816@reddit
If we go with the idea that AI is going to take all our jobs, what exactly would a union do? SWEs go an strike and big tech says "Cool, were were going to lay you off, so do you".
I'm not anti union, I just don't understand how you think this works?
If big tech needs us and the union has leverage, then it works. But what would it's leverage be? I just never hear anyone able to offer a good explanation to this.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
This is a legit good call out. I appreciate it. You’re right we are rapidly losing leverage. If we lose all leverage a union won’t do anything. That’s why in my most I mentioned it may be too late, but maybe it’s not yet
Sammolaw1985@reddit
Leave some boot for the rest of us.
HK-65@reddit
You have much better salaries because of inflation and the Wall Street money printer, but it's increasingly not being the case. The lack of unions just lets you be fluidly laid off.
Look at this job market and tell me it benefits US workers.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Exactly, salaries are going to drop regardless
frooook@reddit
Keep it up you'll be ceo with that attitude
xXxdethl0rdxXx@reddit
A USA-wide tech union is probably too big in scope to start with. But sign me up for whatever version of this you can muster. My advice would be to start at your team, then your company, then your city, your region, etc. solidarity! ✊🏻
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Yeah this is good advice but there should be coordination. I was hoping to hear from anyoen currently on progress
shifty_lifty_doodah@reddit
No it’s not at all obvious that we benefit from this. Do ALL SWEs benefit? Come on. Obviously not.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
While some may not now bc they’re on good teams or at good companies. The ai revolution is here and we are first on the chopping block. I understand there’s probably many devs that don’t think ai can do their job bc they’ve only interacted directly with models and have not yet experienced the infrastructure that actually makes our replacement possible.
If you’re in one of those spots that’s awesome, stay there lol, but believe me when I say you will be back here wondering the same in 6 months
shifty_lifty_doodah@reddit
A union cannot save us from technology
A union cannot save us from technology
Repeated for emphasis. New technologies will be adapted. If they can replace us, they will.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Eh this is different than a new technology. We’re talking about the eradication of our profession. We can and should fight it. SWEs are just the builders were often the voice in the room that says hey maybe we shouldn’t build that.
ZombieZookeeper@reddit
So which book do you prefer, Clean Code or 101 Recipes for Boot?
laserswald@reddit
I think the Tech Workers Coalition is what you may be looking for?
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Not really I’m talking about the more formal NLRB type of union with real collective bargaining power. The coalition is networking and career support. I’m talking about a real labor union
EnderMB@reddit
Not all unions do full collective bargaining. In the UK, at least, some professional bodies with unions attached purely negotiate a "minimum salary" for their workers, allowing companies to pay whatever they want - as long as it's at least market rate.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Right the UK has its own rules, and Germany has the work councils thing. That’s fine and I don’t understand all the laws over there. That’s why I wanted to focus on the US where collective bargaining is very much a thing
dashingThroughSnow12@reddit
Has there ever been a union like what you propose?
Say AMFA. There are relatively few airlines (or similar employers). The union is for a specific type of mechanic. And such a mechanic, I presume, if they left work at one airline they will likely be going to another airline. Mechanics also need to do their work in person.
For tech, are you imagining one union or a bunch? I am a full-stack DevOps engineer with experience in data science. What commonalities do I have with an embedded systems programmer? Or a game dev? They are wonderful people but don’t unions function best when their members have homogenous concerns and issues so that the union heads have things they can focus on and speak in one voice?
Then there is also the fact that there are many tech companies and many tech people who don’t work for tech companies. A aircraft mechanic works for some company that does things with aircraft. You can be a software developer that works in house at an investment company and half your team just got laid off because of AI. Or you work for a dinosaur insurance company.
Again, going back to the aircraft mechanics, there are a few airlines. There are a billion companies SWEs work for. How will the union handle the myriad of disputes that happen across such a vast array?
I am not anti-union but I do think SWEs are too disparate of a group to be in a union together. And I’m even questioning if breaking it down is useful to. By industry? I used to work in hardware arrays, then SaaS, then porn. By tech type? I’ve been a frontend engineer, backend, SRE, etcetera. By region? Many work remote and flip regions when the job changes.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I appreciate where your heads at and a division made sense in the past but now skill trees have been flattened by AI for software engineers anymore. If you’re not now you will soon be an AI operator and have no speciality
false79@reddit
I imagine as an employwer of American devs who chose to unionize, it would only further accelerate offshort and onshore outsourcing and ramp up on tokens for the ones who choose not to unionize.
Sock-Familiar@reddit
Yeah people are tired of these empty threats every time we try to make sure progressive changes. Can't tax the rich or they will leave. Can't start unions or they will offshore jobs. Can't enact regulations because companies will move to Texas where they can fuck up the land freely. Sorry we all don't have a bootlicker mentality.
me_myself_ai@reddit
Yes, demanding any sort of pay or respect incentivizes your employer to hire someone else. That's why I work for free!
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Part of a union is the collective bargaining power to fight things like that
roodammy44@reddit
If they are going to offshore, they will do it regardless. Besides, overseas from the US, we have unions too.
SnugglyCoderGuy@reddit
More than unions, we need professional licensure to weed out the hacks
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
There’s no more hacks any more my friend. Software engineering died in 2026. Everyone’s an engineer now. We’re not quite there yet everywhere but it’s coming and in some places is already here
EnderMB@reddit
The EU is not organising...
I really wish we would, but the EU or Europe isn't a country. It's a trading bloc and a continent, with many different countries, cultures, and laws. Germany already has work councils, but I'd be very interested if a country does push for unions in tech.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Uk -> UTAW (United Tech and Allied Workers) Norway -> Danish Society of Engineers Ireland -> DATA (Digital and Techworker Alliance)
EnderMB@reddit
There are unions that exist, but they're so rare that I'd wager less than 1% of tech workers have ever met a unionised worker.
In the UK, I know a few people that work for public sector companies that are in general unions like Unison or Unite, but they usually only support you for things like HR hearings or for legal advice - which IMO is what America needs more than anything else.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
They are structured differently but they do a lot more than that! Just look into it… UTAW handles things like
HK-65@reddit
Danish tech workers are somewhat unionized FWIW.
ares623@reddit
The more it comes up the easier it gets for others to follow. Keep bringing it up even if nothing happens.
Tacos314@reddit
Yeah, you can fuck off with your union talk. I am not anti union but I don't want to work for one.
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
I hear you buddy but you won’t be working much longer if we don’t organize. I don’t care how senior you are and at what company. We’re all about to get smoked.
me_myself_ai@reddit
Make it happen! It's not really an industry-wide thing, at least at the start. Talk to your coworkers, but never on company phones. /r/union has tons of great resources.
You've taken the first step on an incredible path! Solidarity is our only hope.
Single-Pen-726@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Hefty-Weekend8499@reddit (OP)
Sorry I’m speaking specifically about the USA