FAA cuts target for air traffic control staffing
Posted by Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 61 comments
> WASHINGTON, May 15 (Reuters) - The Federal Aviation Administration said Friday it was sharply reducing its target for air traffic control staffing as it vowed to modernize scheduling **and increase the time employees spend managing traffic**.
The FAA said its new target is 12,563 certified controllers, down from 14,633. A National Academies of Science report last year said overtime costs for air traffic controllers have jumped by more than 300% since 2013 to over $200 million, citing a misallocated workforce and inefficient scheduling.
mrdeeds23@reddit
Question for controllers here. Do you think it ever gets to the point where they change the age restrictions? Even with chopped down benefits for not doing the full 25 years in or something but clearly they are not getting the people they need. I'm just above the age limit and would apply in a heartbeat if I could.
TheDrMonocle@reddit
Nope. Age is not the issue. The open bid last month only asked for 8k people and it was full within a day or two.
The hiring pool is fine, hiring older people is going produce fewer successful trainees.
The only issues are training throughput and management of the agency. They can fix this by paying us more for our time, and just training more people not giving up and giving their buddies AI contracts that are just going to try (and fail) to manage traffic saturation.
2018birdie@reddit
That and there is next to no screening on applicants. They've lowered the threshold to one year work experience when it used to be three years. Then they basically take anyone with a pulse. Across the world ATC applicants are put through a three stage testing process before even being offered a job, but not here....
TheDrMonocle@reddit
Honestly, I have no issue with our hiring process other than how slow getting an academy date is. The academy did a fairly decent job washing out people who didn't belong. Something like 40-60% didn't make it before and it was fairly appropriate. It's nearly impossible to really test people if they have the skills to do the job of without just doing it.
However, I've heard rumors the academy has been told to just pass more people so we can hit numbers. And with how horrendously bad some of our recent grads have been, I belive it.
mrdeeds23@reddit
I see - thanks for the perspective there.
Zippitydo2@reddit
Maybe, but idk, they'd have to change the retirement age with it i think. Training is just a huge investment which is why 30 is the cutoff
Vortagaun@reddit
Easy, prioritize commercial operations in busiest airspaces in the country, either severely limit private jets or prohibit them during the busiest times of day in busy airspaces.
They'll boost this target in 20 minutes when all the rich people and government officials get a taste of inconvenience.
2018birdie@reddit
I'm not prioritizing anybody. You can all take ground delays.
AutoRot@reddit
preach
lil_layne@reddit
This proposal seems like it would fuck over GA the most rather than it having the effect you are intending
Bluemikami@reddit
Seems we’re going back to those LA days
Vortagaun@reddit
Its a terrible proposal, just like their proposal
Birdhawk@reddit
On the otherhand I feel like they're more likely to just pay off the people they have to pay off ($5m/night stay + $1m/plate dinner at Mar a Lago) in order to do the opposite and limit commercial and GA flights while prioritizing their own flights.
Mage1strider1@reddit
ah yes, because everyone knows that certain sectors are super overstaffed and totally aren't on the brink constantly
SnooDogs1340@reddit
I am so pissed. There are layoffs and shortages in all fields but air traffic control would NOT be one of the fields I would want to cut corner on.
The FAA should not act shocked if a big accident occurs in the coming year(s).
CharcoalGreyWolf@reddit
You mean those above that fund the FAA (the Legislative and Executive branches of government).
SnooDogs1340@reddit
100%. I did a blanket statement before the afternoon nap.
The people in charge of decisions are trying to run it like a business and are creating risky logistics. These are people's livelihoods and lives on the line.
CharcoalGreyWolf@reddit
Not just like a business —like a bad, greedy one that doesn’t care about product or self-sustenance, just short term greed.
Business can, and has been run by people with wisdom. But that has become a far less common thing in the past thirty years, maybe more.
ihateusedusernames@reddit
We will not get on a plane, and I warn my family against flying now.
CharcoalGreyWolf@reddit
And along with that, who will even want to go into the sector in the future? The government is guaranteeing failure and they don’t care.
kaiservonrisk@reddit
Controllers spend a huge portion of their day not controlling traffic. Be it playing Call of Duty or Guitar Hero in their video game room, sleeping in their “quiet rooms”, or watching movies in their movie theaters with stadium seating (cough cough CLT Tower).
Spending more time controlling traffic is a good thing in my eyes. Don’t worry they can still wear their Cookie Monster pajamas to work (yes I have seen this).
anon1029384755@reddit
With that kind of logic why don’t we just cut ATC staffing then? Those lazy bums should be on position the entire shift with maybe the exception of a 10 minute lunch break if traffic permits. If all controllers only take one 10 minute break each shift then we can reduce the staffing demands by a few thousand more! Wow this is so easy
kaiservonrisk@reddit
Obviously no one on this sub is going to understand because they have no experience with it, and controllers will of course defend themselves since they know how much they get coddled.
FlyingKolo@reddit
What's your experience with it then? You aren't speaking as if you are a controller so in what capacity have you seen what you've said?
dvinpayne@reddit
He's a maintenance tech for the faa. Probably applied to be a controller and got rejected.
Thick-Ad6822@reddit
Ah yes, the famously coddled air traffic workforce - the ones working six day weeks on schedules that will kill you, missing endless amounts of times with family and friends, often being stuck across the country from home, working under archaic mental health requirements, and working under stagnating wages while the cost of literally skyrockets. God forbid someone tries to find a little work/life balance on break.
Genuinely, go fuck yourself.
kaiservonrisk@reddit
Yes. I’m sure the controllers in Miami wipe their tears away with $100 bills as they drive away in their Vipers, GTR’s, and 911’s. Give me a fucking break lol. Coddled ass workforce.
AdriftSpaceman@reddit
Enlighten me, please, why controller have the amount of rest they do? It's there any specific reason for that? Was this always the case? Do de we have any kind of academic or governmental study that concluded this was necessary?
jon1819@reddit
I was going to guess you are a supervisor but you're actually more along the lines of command center or FAA administrator material.
Mendeth@reddit
Rest/downtime is mandated for a reason, and who cares what the person at the end of a mic/radar screen is wearing?
kaiservonrisk@reddit
How much downtime do you get during your workday? And how do you think that stacks up against controllers?
AdoringCHIN@reddit
My job isn't one of the most stressful jobs on the planet that requires an attentive and rested mind.
Mendeth@reddit
Not a controller but I’m entitled up to a quarter of the shift during the day, and mandated to a third during the night.
Zippitydo2@reddit
The planes fly more efficiently when it's controlled by someone not burnt out and fresh from break. I know this because once I approach 2 hours continuously on position my brain becomes pretty fatigued. You don't want people on position 3 hours at a time
acamp04@reddit
That might be the most out of touch answer I've ever read. Tell me you're a coddled private jet pilot or an FAA manager without actually telling me.
TheDrMonocle@reddit
Ok so after I work that straight hour of insane traffic and I'm mentally exhausted, you wnat me to work another hour just because you don't think I work enough? Brilliant. Make this man administrator.
Yes, some days we don't work much. Comes with the job. Sometimes it's slow so sectors are closed so fewer people are needed. Sometimes we let the trainees work longer to see as much a possible which means certified controllers spend more time on break.
Making people work more for the sake of working more won't fix shit. Take firefighters for example. They spend a majority of the day not doing anything right? Guess that means we don't need as many. The few left can just work more. Perfect!
We staff to the numbers we do because sometimes shit hits the fan and we need everyone. If we lower staffing to what we need on average, those peak times are going to see controller working 2-3x longer than they would have anyway. They're going to get fatigued, and accidents are going to happen.
Forcing us to work longer stints because they don't want to hire people is literally insane. And you're a fucking moron for agreeing.
Thequiet01@reddit
They get downtime because people have a limited amount of time they can do specific tasks before their brain just stops being able to keep track. We have a considerable amount of actual research done on this and related issues thanks to the military. People need enforced breaks to let their brain reset and be able to perform properly again.
Pancakes6877@reddit
Talk to me again after you've just worked a giant departure/arrival push with weather and no TMU support. "Just make it work." Tell me that your brain hasn't completely gone to mush and you're good to sit there for another hour.
Meetings and spreadsheets don't produce even a fraction of the mental drain. I've done both.
VulgarButFluent@reddit
If overtime costs are 200 million, it sounds like they can fucking afford to hire 200 million ATC controllers worth of controllers. At 200k/year each, thats 1000 controllers right there. And thats the high end of the pay scale according to my quick and dirty google. But no, apparently the solution is to overwork the few they have now, of which they will lose more to accidents and Quality of Work/Life balance.
Chronigan2@reddit
The issue is more the ability to train controllers. It takes a long time and the school can only handle so many.
VulgarButFluent@reddit
Definitely a factor, but theyre talking about cutting the total number of atc staff they plan to maintain arent they? From 14k down to 12k and they apparently plan to just work the exisiting controllers harder. Which is absurd.
pumpymcpumpface@reddit
How many are there currently even?
AlphaPopsicle84@reddit
Work harder, but don’t assign OT because “we have spent too much on overtime”. The reason we have overtime is because we are understaffed. Oh and by the way… starting in October we will now be providing VFR/IFR separation. 500’ at all times in all airspace (not just class bravo or charlie) or you have a deal.
StandsForVice@reddit
Also the fact that it's not an easy career to switch to considering you can't get into it if you're over the age of 30.
Zippitydo2@reddit
This fucking BS makes me wonder why I chose this fucking career
007meow@reddit
This may be a stupid question, but once you’re an ATC, what other career paths are open to you?
Like what other careers do those skills transfer to?
Zippitydo2@reddit
Not a ton tbh, if you work the traffic management unit, airlines may see that as decent experience to enter in a scheduling job, but as for the controlling planes portion I have a hard time thinking of anything
GreatScottGatsby@reddit
You can always become a traffic cop. /s
ilrosewood@reddit
I don’t see how any of this can go wrong.
LowValueAviator@reddit
Seems shortsighted, the pendulum is going to swing back sooner or later and the longer it spends going in the “lol we are gonna underpay controllers” direction the harder and faster it’s gonna go in the “throw money at them, now!” direction.
No_Size9475@reddit
I'm sorry, did that say CUT and not EXPAND?
Jesus, these people want citizens to die it seems
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately not just citizens, but everyone that flies into USA as well.
timelessblur@reddit
So the famous way of meeting goals is to change them to a lower point. Lets make the stressful job even harder and reducing the staff more. I hate this time line
AlphaPopsicle84@reddit
But they won’t have a “shortage” now because they are lowering the hiring goal by 2,000 cpc’s. We have OT every week because we cannot open positions otherwise. Even with all of the overtime that can be assigned, we are consistently 3 controllers short (by our guideline standards) every single day.
Mendeth@reddit
Rest/downtime is mandated for a reason, and who cares what the person at the end of a microphone / radar screen is wearing?
gretafour@reddit
"We're not going to meet the target, what should we do!"
Current Administration's FAA: "Just lower the target, duh"
Vortagaun@reddit
"Just make sure theres enough controllers to handle corporate jets for the rich and government"
OldStromer@reddit
Kind of reminds me of, If we stop testing we're going to find a lot fewer cases.
VeryFewRules@reddit
It can always get worse. It just did.
2018birdie@reddit
Excuse me, what? 🤔
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