What’s the point on In house examining authority?
Posted by Tough_Wrap_333@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 26 comments
Forgive me of my ignorance but I’m trying to see some of the real benefits of a flight school with in house examining authority. The way schools talk about it makes it seem like nobody finds out about you having any check ride failures. I understand that they don’t get reported to the FAA but doesn’t the school still have it on record that you failed the flight that got you a new certificate? A few of the cadet programs even state mentioning if you failed a EOC if you go to apply to them.
From what I can understand, it helps cut down the wait time for a checkride and makes it a little easier to pass the checkride since most check airmen(from my experience) follow the same procedures for checkrides.
The way schools talk about it makes it appear that you don’t have to report any failed checkrides but all it takes is your employer requesting training records from your school to see that you failed, so what’s the real benefit of it ?
I apologize for the rant, just board and left alone with my thoughts.
Impossible-Bad-2291@reddit
If that lasts longer than 4 hours, you should call your doctor...
HardCorePawn@reddit
Or run the "Crew incapacitation" checklist from the QRH...
Tough_Wrap_333@reddit (OP)
Don’t worry, only lasts 3 hours and 59 minutes
Mossieoak@reddit
The elephant in the room is you have a MUCH lower chance of failing a “checkride” with in house examining authority.
It’s like Niel Degrasse Tyson once said:”People don’t believe the universe be like it is. But it do.”
mach0point2@reddit
It’s nice because you don’t have to wait for (or pay >$1000 for) a DPE. Having done both, in house is typically easier. For the volume universities and airlines put through, having to wait on the already strained DPE system would cause chaos. The check pilots (FAR 141) & APDs (Airlines) know your aircraft and policies which has its pros and cons.
Airlines still make you report it all, that’s not really a benefit.
draakken35@reddit
Funny the examiner at my 141 school is $150/h so 6h with the examiner is soo soo soo much cheaper than the $1000 DPE. =)
mach0point2@reddit
That’s insane. At my university, check pilots billed the same rate as a normal CFI. You could have the most junior CFI, or the chief and it would be the exact same cost to the student.
draakken35@reddit
instructors/stage check airmen are the same price ($100/h) the chief/141 version of a dpe are the higher rate.
Guysmiley777@reddit
No, you can't hide failures because of in-house examiners. If they're advertising or implying that they're being either disingenuous or straight up unethical.
The biggest benefit is that you don't have to deal with the expense and sometimes massive wait time to schedule a DPE for check rides since the school has their own DPEs for their students.
Tough_Wrap_333@reddit (OP)
Okay that’s kinda what I thought. Many of the people at the school I went to said(this is an exact quote)” you do not need to disclose checkride failures here because it’s all in-house”. And that’s never sat well with me. Every job I’ve applied to that asks that I’ve felt wrong lying about it so I’ve been honest about the failures I’ve had.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
I think you misunderstood. You don’t have to disclose stage check failures, but the actual checkride for the new license you do.
PILOT9000@reddit
Unless that carrier asks about stage check failures, which many do. There are very easy ways to catch this during the hiring process.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
That’s news to me that carriers would ask or even care about stage checks.
sunmal@reddit
I would also add; Most DPE’s usually have their own petpeevs about what they like to see, and what they dont. They also usually have a pattern on what do they do.
On top of not having to suffer on the eternal waittime of a DPE, you usually have a pretty good insight on what will the DPE expect of you.
a_provo_yakker@reddit
It’s a main reason anyone even cares about stage check failures these days. A stage check is just a flight with an instructor. An end of course is exactly that: the final evaluation before you go to a checkride. If you did a college program, they might have even been used as a sort of midterm and final.
But most schools don’t have in-house examiners. No one cares about stage checks till enough people ruined it and now they’re scrutinized. They shouldn’t be. At most, it should be “have you ever failed or repeated an end-of-course check at a 141 school with self examining authority.” A recruiting team isn’t going to spend time and manpower to comb through stage checks, look for fails, and then cross reference it against a known list of schools with self-examining. Instead they case a wide net and the burden is on you. Except the net was cast far too wide.
EM22_@reddit
In house examiners have a financial incentive (continued employment) to pass students.
Glad I could answer that for you.
Maleficent-Ad6818@reddit
This is blatantly false and just shows you have very little idea what you are talking about.
KehreAzerith@reddit
As someone that went to a 141 with in house and "contracted" DPEs, there is definitely something going on where they fudge things to make checkrides easier on average. Plus a gouge that all the DPEs know about and they purposely structure their checkrides the same so every student knows exactly what will happen. Which also means students will deliberately not study certain task areas because they know the DPE will skip over it in most cases
Maleficent-Ad6818@reddit
As someone who also went to a 141 with in house I can say that is all anecdotes and in reality the opposite is true where the pass rate is lower than it should be. You can also say the dpe goge thing to any school 61, 141, in house or not as referenced by many people’s posts and stories throughout the sub.
TacticalP00P@reddit
This is definitely it, incentivized to pass students. Also, not having to wait 4+ months for checkrides.
PILOT9000@reddit
>The way schools talk about it makes it appear that you don’t have to report any failed checkrides
That’s not true, at all. If a school is making it seem that way to you then stay far away from them.
archer505@reddit
Any school trying to sell it as a way to hide it from PRIA is intentionally misleading for marketing reasons. It’s not untrue, but it’s not an ethical selling point because you’re correct that they don’t waive you of responsibility to disclose failures to a prospective employer. There are other benefits to examining authority, including reduced wait times (huge), and more standardized evaluation. Yes, DPE’s have the ACS, but 141 schools often have further methods of standardization to reduce bias. It’s less of a ‘good ol’ boys club.’
Arata_Takeyama@reddit
Biggest benefits like you said is the short wait time and the check-ride itself is predictable.
I haven’t heard of an in house examining authority school that hide check-ride failures certainly not mine.
Tough_Wrap_333@reddit (OP)
Like I said, my school said a lot of questionable things that never sat well with me till I flew with other people and talked to other schools. Definitely see the benefit of the low wait time though
flyingron@reddit
It means they can bundle the exam fee in with the course, and they don't have to send the students out to an independent DPE (which, due to the insanely corrupt designation system, can be quite difficult in many places).
No, there's no hiding of the failures.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Forgive me of my ignorance but I’m trying to see some of the real benefits of a flight school with in house examining authority. The way schools talk about it makes it seem like nobody finds out about you having any check ride failures. I understand that they don’t get reported to the FAA but doesn’t the school still have it on record that you failed the flight that got you a new certificate? A few of the cadet programs even state mentioning if you failed a EOC if you go to apply to them.
From what I can understand, it helps cut down the wait time for a checkride and makes it a little easier to pass the checkride since most check airmen(from my experience) follow the same procedures for checkrides.
The way schools talk about it makes it appear that you don’t have to report any failed checkrides but all it takes is your employer requesting training records from your school to see that you failed, so what’s the real benefit of it ?
I apologize for the rant, just board and left alone with my thoughts.
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