Starting a car post-apocalypse (with early 2000s tech)?
Posted by droppedmybrain@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 54 comments
Hello!
I'm currently writing a story where the world ended around the year 2003, all humans and animals died out. The protagonist group (non-human, but humanoid) are trying to reach a city ten miles out in 2004, a year later.
They've found a truck on a ranch; for hypothetical purposes, let's say it's an 80s automatic diesel truck. The battery was new-ish when the owners put it in, but I'm assuming(?) would be dead by the time the protags find it, if not due to parasitic drain, then self-discharge. It's a desert climate, so long, hot summers, mild winters, cold nights.
Note: The electricity grid is still up (plot point/twist later on)
Since it's been a whole year since the last human died (and much longer since the last car battery was manufactured due to the world going to shit), I have a few questions:
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Would there be *any* car batteries left working?
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Did portable jump kits exist back then? (Forgive my ignorance, I was born in '99 lol)
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Is there any way to use a shitload of regular (AA) batteries/AC voltage from the house to jumpstart a car?
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Is there anyway to start the truck in question that doesn't involve batteries? (I read automatic vehicles can't be push-started, but not sure if that applies to 80s automatics, or only modern vehicles)
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Even if they get the car started, would there be any other issues from a truck sitting abandoned in a barn for 1.5 - 4 years? (I know about bad gas, I was thinking they could pump it out and use motor oil/vegetable oil instead– I'm asking more about parts)
Thank y'all in advance!!
skinisblackmetallic@reddit
Check out Vice Grip Garage on Youtube. Almost every video is this basic scenario... just takeaway Autozone.
Willing_Cupcake3088@reddit
Good old Leatherperson and a couple jugs of Marvel Mystery oil.
Longjumping_Lynx_972@reddit
Leatherperson, lmfao
skinisblackmetallic@reddit
I bet a guy could make a video about the apocalypse!
BrainlessDipsticks@reddit
They grab a push mower from the garage/shed. Hacksaw and duct tape an alternator from one of the dead cars onto the blade underneath. Fill it up with some moonshine. And run it till it gives while attached to the batteries from all the vehicles on the farm.
Maybe let them get excited it started and let the mower explode.
NightKnown405@reddit
You need to address some pretty large plot holes before you get too far along in this. Why would they even recognize a car as a mode of transportation? Let alone have any idea how it works and how to start it and should there be anything wrong what to do about it? Think about this for a moment. Take the smartest people that ever lived and drop a piece of today's technology that we take for granted in front of them. The odds are highly against them being able to figure out what you are asking here. You could even have a vehicle sitting there in perfect condition with the keys in the ignition and that would be a puzzle that would take a long time for them to figure out even if they could read the owners manual.
Taking this a step further there could be horses and cows in the fields and buggies sitting next to the barn. Why would they have any idea to put those two things together for transportation? If you can close these holes, you'll almost have answered your own question.
droppedmybrain@reddit (OP)
They know what a car is haha, they're not cavemen. They're very much sapient, literate, and familiar with human technology (as it happens, the leader is human tech– a robot).
Well, technically, they're all human tech. These are beings that were created by humans to entertain them, and they had caregivers that were generally good people and answered lots of questions they had about the outside (human) world.
I also politely disagree, I think an intelligent historical figure (or even just a random average person from the past) could figure a car or computer out. We aren't geniuses compared to them, we just happened to live in a post tech revolution (that occurred due to various factors, but I imagine could have happened sooner)
Ill-Running1986@reddit
Was gonna say that they found the dvd of The Fast and The Furious (2001) and learned to drive with hilarious results.
NightKnown405@reddit
Well it is "fiction" so you can make up any rules, but since you can't see past this question, I'm out. Good-luck
Chistaya-Vada@reddit
Doesn’t have to make sense or be grounded in reality, you’re thinking to small time. By the time your story is sold to Netflix 5 minutes into rewrites there will be shit that doesn’t make sense. 1 day into shooting there will be plenty of continuity errors. Put a defibrillator on it and make it go vroom vroom.
Ill-Running1986@reddit
The crash cart is there because the farmer was also a talented doctor in his youth, who just happened to make a tough decision that made his gritty supervisor look like a fool. It happens that the farmer was an exceptional prepper, but you’d only know that if somehow you smashed the garage floor in the right place and got into the crypt.
vilius_m_lt@reddit
Diesel can turn into sludge by microbes. I’ve seen it happen. No way using that even in an older diesel truck
IUsedToLikeLimericks@reddit
Battery tenders existed then. A battery will quite happily last a decade on a decent tender.
FormalWaters@reddit
I farm and have older diesel trucks. I have an idea for this that lets you maintain the automatic transmission. Let’s say they discover the truck that was in running condition when parked and has now been sitting for a year. First thing, for an older mechanically injected diesel fuel that is a year old is almost certainly going to be a non-issue. Diesel fuel is much more stable over time than gasoline. Now let’s address the battery. For accuracy in your story a diesel pickup truck will usually have two batteries wired in a parallel circuit so they act as one large battery. After a year the batteries will likely be seriously discharged and unable to start an early high compression diesel. You did however mention that they are on a farm, and by the early 2000s solar powered electric fence chargers and gate openers were fairly common. Some of these were 12volt and had lead acid deep cycle batteries. If one of these solar powered pieces of equipment is nearby they may be able to jump the truck off with it.
Square-Instance9677@reddit
I don't really know how to answer your main question, but I do know that vegetable or motor oil would not be able to be substituted as fuel...
droppedmybrain@reddit (OP)
Oh shit, really? I read that those can be substituted if its a diesel engine.
I'm about to have these little shits walk lmao
Raivnholm@reddit
I mean 10 miles isn't even far, you could walk that in a day, easy.
But also this guy is wrong, older diesels like you're talking about absolutely can run on alternative fuels.
Square-Instance9677@reddit
I'm no professional admittedly, I just learned something today. 🤣
droppedmybrain@reddit (OP)
Oh definitely! These guys are fit enough to do so too, though unfortunately for them, time is of the essence (they ventured out to seek food for the rest of their group or they'll starve + they need medicine for one very sick member)
Okay cool haha, that's what I read! I figure they just missed the diesel part in my post. I know for sure if I put veg oil in my gas car, I'm gonna end up on r/justrolledintotheshop
Zestyclose-Process92@reddit
People walk marathons all the time. Most people doing through-hikes of the major North-South trails (Pacific Crest Trail, Appalachian Trail) regularly shoot for 25 mile days with full packs on their backs.
Zestyclose-Process92@reddit
Can confirm. I had a 1982 Mercedes 300td that I drove on straight veg oil. I had an extra fuel filter added on and heat tape put on the fuel line to keep it liquid, but if it's hot enough outside for the oil to be liquid the tape is unnecessary. It wouldn't even be unreasonable for the owner of the vehicle to have it set up that way.
towman32526@reddit
Older diesels like you speak of it can
ethanjscott@reddit
Realism would be walking its 10 miles
Minuuven@reddit
To answer your question yes they have had jump packs since early 80s
Chitownhustle99@reddit
The truck may have been on a tender the whole time
NiveusBear@reddit
1) a battery stored indoors or somewhere where the heat extremes wouldn't get to it would provide the best possibility of functioning with age. 2) Solar trickle chargers have been a thing for a long time, so that would be a way to have kept it charged. https://www.harborfreight.com/10-watt-solar-trickle-charger-70830.html 3) You'd have better luck with using something like lithium rechargeable power tool batteries as a makeshift jump pack vs alkaline batteries. AC line voltage could be used to run an automotive jump starter like this https://www.harborfreight.com/250-amp-612v-wheeled-battery-charger-engine-starter-and-alternator-tester-59466.html 4) Automatic transmissions use hydraulic action so for the most part cannot be push or "bump" started due to the way they work. It would have to be a 50-60's era automatic needing speeds of 20+ mph, or an old benz with the 4gtronic automatic. Manual transmission vehicles because of their direct connection through a mechanical clutch can be. 1989-1997 Dodge Ram heavy duty trucks were available with a 12 valve Cummins (6BT) engine, with mechanical fuel injection, manual transmissions, and would work even after a nuclear winter. 5) Treated diesel has a shelf life of about 12-24 months. A new container such as a 55 gallon metal drum that has been stored inside and sealed since being filled with limited amount of air in the drum would have the best possibility of lasting longer due to being sealed away from the oxidizing effects of air (oxygen). Any sediment and sludge from old fuel would need to be removed from the vehicle prior to fuel from the barrel being added. The truck has a large fuel filter that would probably need to be changed. Typical issues from a vehicle sitting for a long period of time are going to be around dry rot and UV degradation. Tires left outside in the sun will rot and fail much quicker than something stored inside. Engine seals will get dry and crack, coolant hoses. Realistically, it's going to leak fluids, the accessory drive belt will probably be degraded, but it would run. The brake system might be sketchy from lack of maintenance. A way that you could realistically tell the story about the vehicle being as functional as it is would be to find it inside of a building protected from the elements. Having new unopened barrels of off-road (dyed red) diesel would not be uncommon on a working farm. You can covert vegetable oil into biodiesel via transesterification using methanol and sodium hydroxide, but not motor oils.
Hope that helps
Jack_ButterKnobbs@reddit
Easiest thing to do would be write in that its a manual and then it could be bump started. Or something a little far fetched, the owner unplugged the battery while the truck was sitting (over the winter or something) so the battery didnt completely die maybe. Thats all I got.
droppedmybrain@reddit (OP)
I was thinking about making it a manual too, but these guys don't know how to drive an automatic, let alone a manual (then again, I don't know how to drive a manual, maybe it's easier than I think)
cans-of-swine@reddit
Most all diesel trucks from the 80s will be a manual.
droppedmybrain@reddit (OP)
Y'all are selling me on the manual tbh. Since it's a ranch truck that pushes me further in the direction of making it a manual.
I'm just wondering if they'd be able to drive it without knowing how. They don't need to go fast, even 20mph would do. Do you think they could feasibly figure out how to get it rolling and keep it up for 10 miles with only bare-bones knowledge of manual transmissions?
(By bare-bones I mean they know there's a clutch pedal and different gears to shift, but nothing more than that)
cans-of-swine@reddit
If you had 0 knowledge of vehicles you would not be able to get it push started (or even know to try that). They need to be somewhat familiar with cars and know that it is possible to push start it or they would not be able to get it started and drive it.
EvitaPuppy@reddit
Had a manual when I was poor and in college. It was wicked easy for us to bump start and drive downtown in! For your story it also makes sense, lots of trucks, especially work trucks, were manuals. Tended to be cheaper and beefier.
Tangboy50000@reddit
If the power grid is still up, it would be very easy to find a trickle charger for the battery, charge a jump pack, or charge an 18V battery for power tools and jump it off that.
clarkn0va@reddit
It's going to be full of mice
droppedmybrain@reddit (OP)
Oh shit good point, I didn't think of that. All the humans and animals died out, but there could still be bones in there (or chewed wires from before the mice keeled over).
Pale-Earth-4413@reddit
Since it's set on a ranch there will be a 120v plug in charger in a shed on the property. Equipment batteries are a constant problem in an environment like that
Boa-in-a-bowl@reddit
I've seen industrial size AGM batteries for semis, buses and the like that were sitting on warehouse shelves for upwards of like two years that were presumably still good because we sold them and they weren't returned.
jrileyy229@reddit
Jump packs were around back then. The easiest way to set this up is the owner of the truck prepared the truck for long term storage when they fled to a bunker or cave or whatever... Hoping that after whatever event if he survived, he would be able to return and use the truck for whatever, to go rescue other survivors or whatever works.
He put a trickle charger on it and added stabilizer to the diesel tank. Maybe he had extra jugs of diesel and oil in the back as well. Then set the timeline to be 1.5 to 2 years.
That fuel would still be good enough to drive
droppedmybrain@reddit (OP)
Okay cool, I imagined they would be since dead car batteries have been a problem for quite a while now, I just couldn't find any information on pre-21st century ones (except for an article mentioning that they were clunky pains-in-the-ass)
That's brilliant, thank you very much!
Original_Bicycle5696@reddit
The old ones are literally a small lead acid battery, with big cables going to the clamps. Most are charged by a big "wall wart" charger screwed to the inside of the case. Its mind numbingly simple for the $150 they cost.
droppedmybrain@reddit (OP)
Okay sick, that works perfect. So it converts AC home electricity to DC lead battery power? And then you just clamp it on like regular jumper cables? Do you know about how long it would take to charge?
(Sorry for all the questions, I strive for realistic details in my post-apocalypse sci-fi fantasy story lmao)
jrileyy229@reddit
I love that you're interested in details and authenticity... This is MacGyver type of stuff without the stupidity and 80s cheese.
Hollywood drives me nuts with their stupidity around cars and motorcycles.
They'll show a character riding a two stroke dirt bike and have it making a four stroke noise. They couldn't be more different... And it's completely irrelevant to the movie, not like they needed to fudge something to make the plot work. How could not a single person in the Sound Effects department have ever ridden a dirt bike or done even 20 seconds of research to see what that particular bike should sound like? Baffles me
Original_Bicycle5696@reddit
Look up a JNC 660. Its what you are looking at.
It has a male end (recessed) you plug an extension cord into to charge.
Then red cable on red/positive and black on black/negative/engine/chassis.
May have to wait a few minutes to charge, if you want some suspense. If its not stone dead, it might have enough to turnover immediately. You can have some creativity here. Maybe have an easily found blown fuse.
Metal_Salt3677@reddit
In terms of 80s diesels, they were mechanically injected and would run on basically any fuel so I would not worry about the diesel going bad. There were definitely jump packs back then and they can be charged with a regular outlet so I would just have them find a jump pack in the house (most farmers have these) and charge it up with a wall socket. Old diesels that are worn out (I’m assuming this one is worn bc it’s a farm truck that’s like 20 yrs old) are also notorious for needing multiple longer cranks, and sometimes cranking with the gas pedal to the floor to start if they haven’t ran in a while.
Amarathe_@reddit
Yes. Batteries have a service life of 2-5 years with cold being the biggest factor. In a warm climate i would expect any parts store would still have viable batteries.
Yes. They were heavy but they did exist.
Yes. Ac would have to be rectified to dc and used to charge the battery but battery chargers do exactly that. If you have an electrical enginerd handy the alternator does generate ac voltage and rectify it to charge the battery so stepping down the voltage and running it through the alternators rectifier would also work. Just straight AC voltage though wont start the car. Standard batteries like AA are 1.5v so 10 in series is 15v which is easily enough voltage. Google says you can get up to 4.5amps from 1 AA and youll need around 800 to start the diesel meaning you need about parralel 20 banks of 10 series batteries each to turn over the engine for a few seconds.
Short answer no. Longer answer: given enough time, resources and will its not impossible to find another way to start the engine by say a hand crank or something. But id rather walk then do that.
Fuel lines and brake lines and frames rot with time and an 80s truck is either well cared for or just a pile of rust held together by hope. Brakes also degrade with time, but after only 1-4 years they should be useable. Not great but useable. tires have a service life of about 7 years but you can push them way further than that. Differentials are vented so water can get in, id at least check the fluid if not replace it. For a single journy id put fresh fuel in, check the fluids, check the lines and frame and drive carefully.
JSTootell@reddit
Car enthusiasts will often park cars with a "battery tender". It's just a small battery charger.
Go into any boomers garage and you'll find a fully functioning car sitting on a battery charger. If the electrical grid is still up in you're scenario, then the car is fully charged and ready to go.
Before my grandma died, and after she stopped driving, I put a battery tender on her car. That way it was always fully charged and ready to drive. And I had it on a quick connector so she could just drive off without unplugging it.
JSTootell@reddit
An 80's diesel truck would start right up on a year old battery.
404notfound420@reddit
You say the power grid still works, so why not just have them find a battery charger in the farm and charge the battery.
sewiv@reddit
Find a vehicle that's been stored with a trickle charger attached. Frequently used to maintain batteries over winter in "summer cars".
Estef74@reddit
If the power grid is still up, a battery charger set to boost or jump start will do the job. Batteries left on the shelf don go bad very quickly, so looting a parts store would also do.
Tires will leak over the course of a few years, but may not go flat.
DeFiClark@reddit
Definitely would be flat spots, but those often drive out in a few miles.
BearFLSTS@reddit
If the location is a ranch, battery chargers would be a standard item. Any working farm/ranch is generally made to be relatively self sufficient.
droppedmybrain@reddit (OP)
Oh for sure (regarding the self-sufficiency thing), I just wasn't sure if the equipment would still work/if it even existed back then
Own_Shallot7926@reddit
Batteries aren't particularly complex devices and are mostly just boxes of metal and volatile chemicals.
Fuel is much the same and especially with diesel, if you have enough oil and solvents you can make it at home.
Electricity is electricity and can be converted to fit the application by anyone with the right know how. You could totally charge a car battery from a house or other large enough batteries.