Current market usa
Posted by restyourbonesjed@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 58 comments
Probably an extremely unpopular opinion but here it goes anyway. I denied going to spirit to go to a regional and work upwards through a company I KNOW isnt going anywhere so that i can start applying for majors. Now i do feel for these spirit guys, however... Heres the unpopular opinion:
Spirit guys shouldnt get priority at legacy interviews, and should have to go to a regional.
People like me and everyone else in the regionals should not have to get stuck because those guys made a bad choice to go to a company that has been shit for a long time.
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
You're right, but only partially. Super experienced people should surrender their licences, and start back with their PPL from scratch. I mean, it's only fair if their employer went bankrupt, isn't? Surely they're not entitled to take place ahead of someone, who's already building their hours towards CPL? /s
The stuff you read on this subreddit sometimes... As if seniority system wasn't bad enough of a kick in the nuts for people, whose airline goes bust...
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
Its an opinion for a reason whether you like it or not. I chose to go regional to have a stable job and then progress upwards. Not go to an unstable airline and then miraculously end up at the front of the line for legacies like they hit the lottery over their bad choice to go to spirit in the first place. The guys who have been there over 10 years can surely have the qualifications to make it, im talking the guys who have only been at spirit a few years
Several-Village5814@reddit
With aviation unions, it actually benefits you to go to a failing airline because you’ll lose your job and you’ll be first in line to get a legacy job. Kinda ironic isn’t it. Like you purposely fail to have a sob story to everyone interviewing you.
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
Post covid hire thinks he deserves job more than other pilots: news at 11.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
Is that not how everyone gets hired? They apply because they believe they are the better candidate? I have seen FOs who are not white and not male get the call over captains who have 3k PIC time with a clean slate. Rigged system not just for me but for everyone effected
Gabriel_Owners@reddit
Poor persecuted you.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
There you go now you get it
Baystate411@reddit
For the sake of your argument They may have made a bad choice of going to spirit (they didn't) but they made a great decision to go to an ALPA carrier. Being at an ALPA carrier is what is getting them priority interviews at other ALPA carriers. That's how that works
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
And thats totally fair. Like i said i feel for them. Just have my opinion because ive dedicated all my time and finances towards this and now im being stuck at a regional because of them. Theres regional jobs for them ready to go direct entry
Baystate411@reddit
your feelings are valid but cant do much about it. just keep grinding
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
Aint that the cold hard truth
Necessary_Topic_1656@reddit
i was stuck at a regional for 12 years never having the seniority to upgrade to captain. the closest i got to captain upgrade after 12 years was about 500 numbers.
I upgraded at spirit the same time my sim partner at the regional got his upgrade at the regional i left on the Embraer at the 15 year point.
JPAV8R@reddit
I hate the “if not the big three you chose wrong” mentality that’s permeated the up and coming 121 pilots.
Pan am and TWA were synonymous with the big three when they were in their heyday.
Spirit wasn’t some fly by night dice roll. It was a place to make a career, no different than the pan am and TWA of years before. Spirit like the other airlines mentioned just were mismanaged into the ground.
It’s not unforeseeable that American lands a similar fate. They are heavily invested in their credit cards… if that goes belly up, could that put them behind the eight ball? Only time will tell.
If it doesn’t go well for American two or three decades down the road I’m wondering what the folks of this subreddit will say about being the first in line for a job.
andrewrbat@reddit
yeah and there are dozens of airlines you could have said this about to a degree, not just two.
homeinthesky@reddit
Bingo. Plus, spirit was a fantastic operator. Crews were always so happy. Solid work rules, good pay. PLUS ALPA membership. It was a career destination for thousands for a reason. But like you said… for the sake of the argument, ALPA ALPA ALPA.
JPAV8R@reddit
Those spirit guy operated larger equipment with less oversight.
Regionals baby their pilots because they are baby pilots.
Regional pilots think that ATC would never give you direct if it penetrated weather. Spirit pilots know that’s not true because they operated into Haiti.
Who do you want at your major? The guy who knows everything about del rio Texas or the guy who communicated with third world country’s controllers while they were speaking their second language?
Sorry not sorry it’ll take you two more years at your regional.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
And that may be true. I did say it was an unpopular opinion. I do have 1k pic and 135 turbine all through mexico. So i know the shitty controllers too
JPAV8R@reddit
I’m sorry you’re waiting for your turn. I (perhaps incorrectly) assume that you’re in your 20s. If you’re 29 two years feels like a lot of time. For someone 20 years older 2 years is a blink of the eye. Think of it as 22% of your +20 life vs 7% of the 49 year olds +20 life.
This is a long-winded way to say that it’s OK if you wait two years to get to your destination. Because Overtime two years is nothing.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
I totally hear that and you nailed the age within 1 year. Preesh the insight here
Baystate411@reddit
Envoy has been going to plenty of weird ass places south of the border too. CommutAir was going to a shit ton of places in deep Mexico...
JPAV8R@reddit
Like I said regionals provide more hand holding. You’ll learn that once you’re off your regional.
Baystate411@reddit
well, im a legacy captain so thanks I look forward to when I leave my regional?
JPAV8R@reddit
Then you should know better.
Do you disagree that the rope they give you is longer?
OP is also completely disregarding the fact that Spirit pilots operate heavier aircraft with more inertia. Getting used to the difference there is marginal. Wouldn’t you rather hire a pilot who’s used to operating at similar weights on similar routes?
Baystate411@reddit
I know better than to negate the experience of my regional brothers going to tough airports at night outside the US in mountainous environments and weather. They are flying real passengers and all their skills are just as real as mine.
JPAV8R@reddit
That’s fair. Also uncontrolled fields.
I just think it’s a reach to say that spirit pilots should take a back seat because they picked a bad company.
For most of those guys who had shiny jet syndrome the only reason they didn’t pick spirit was that spirit wouldn’t hire them.
OP is upset that the spirit guys get front of the line access. That’s akin to being upset that a pilot sitting on a furlough back in 2005 was getting hired before folks that didn’t bet on the airline that furloughed them
JPAV8R@reddit
What shocks me about this is that regional pilots what their regional experience honored over the 1500 hour CFIs applying to the majors while simultaneously wanting the experience of Spirit pilots to be negated.
Pick a lane.
snafu0390@reddit
On the flip side, I’m at another major and am currently interviewing at a couple legacies. I’ve been super excited to see my Spirit brothers and sisters in my interview group. What happened to them is NOT their fault. They just had their lives turned upside down and are scrambling for a job while I’m fortunate enough to still be receiving a paycheck as I search for my next destination.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
Didnt say it was their fault. However i made a conscious decision to not go there because of how i saw their company going. Why should i pay the price for their bad decision?
Guysmiley777@reddit
The fuck you didn't.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
Oof dont start blastin now bc you didnt like the opinion
Guysmiley777@reddit
Don't try and backpedal because you don't like how people perceive your opinion.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
Sir im going to need you to calm down
snafu0390@reddit
So all the Spirit pilots hired before 2020 during the time when Spirit was incredibly profitable should be dismissed as “poor decision makers”?
Also, you’re not “paying the price” of anything. You’re competing for a job in a historically extremely competitive industry. Barring the hiring anomaly that was 2022-2024, the big 4 are still hiring in record numbers. Build your experience, get TPIC, collect LORs like Pokémon, and make your resume stand out by doing things aside from just flying the line. I’m nothing special and was able to secure two interviews at the big 4 within 3 days of submitting my apps.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
Is 3500 tt, 1k 121pic, 500 turbine 135, volunteering, eagle scout, 10 internal LOR, 4 year degree in economics not enough to even get a call? Can a white boy get some help around here then and yell me what else i need?
snafu0390@reddit
Sending you a dm
andrewrbat@reddit
oof I remember being at a regional and being super bitter about others getting hired at our legacy. But we have flow. But we are trained like their pilots. but we have a cadet program... they dot care at all. It was tough seeing how few fucks the major cared about us, one of their wholly owned babies. they went out of their way to not hire us as much as possible. in addition to all the other shits they took on us.
fact is nobody knows whats going to happen to this industry far before it happens, and those of us who made out well mostly got lucky. we made a good decision sure, but i bet people at spirit a few years ago were like "boy getting out of that shit regional was a good decision" you just don't know. if the JB merger worked out maybe spirit and JB would be killing it now.
Spirit guys get priority because they are furloughed, because they have A320 type ratings from a 121, and because they were alpa pilots. you can probably only say one of those things about yourself. not a dis just giving you the reasons. legacies like to hire people with experience doing what they do. so if you have already been flying in and out of Florida from everywhere in the USA on an a320 then you have a lot of boxes checked. 121 times is king but i wouldn't say ALL 121 time is valued the same.
is it fair? eh no, but nothing is in this industry. its not fair that i got from no flying at all to legacy captain in less time than some people spent instructing/flying checks/etc in the lost decade+. but here we are.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
Its a lottery for sure. And your reasons are all correct. Im not bitter, i have 19 days off a month. But do i wish i had a fighting chance as a white man right now? Fo sho
TheGrayMannnn@reddit
Companies want to hire people with type certifications for the aircraft they operate.
More at 11.
Several-Village5814@reddit
They have to go through training all over again though…
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
And then they put them on the 73. 🥵
Several-Village5814@reddit
I agree to be honest. Spirit had been losing money for over 5 years. If you didn’t see the writing on the wall you are absolutely clueless.
Twarrior913@reddit
I would bet a large sum of money that the majority of those people who “chose a bad company,” chose that company when the company you are flying at still flew turboprops (i.e completely different time in the industry), or (and much more likely) were fighting to get hired in a much more competitive timeframe and didn’t have a huge choice in the matter. There wasn’t a whole lot of “choice” going on pre-2016 or so.
I can relate to the frustration of getting to the point where you are, or are close, to being competitive for an interview slot, trust me. I would even say it’s a valid frustration, but it’s not fair to point that at the pilot group who are on the street right now. The only “criticism,” (used very very loosely) is that they could have left earlier, but that wouldn’t change the position we find ourselves in now and isn’t fair to anyone. Plus, just sit and think about it rationally: not every furloughed pilot will go to the airline you want to fly for, not all of them will even return to the work force, and some of them are less competitive than you are. It’s definitely a setback, but it’s not like the lost decade(s) where you’d have 8-9 thousand people on the street after a company folds. The best thing to wish them is luck finding a good fly ing job to pay the bills and pray the economic situation rapidly improves, which is really what controls our careers.
InflncrPltSukDezNuts@reddit
Nah, bro. I've got lots of friends who went from regional CA to Spirit FO. Also there was a point where many of my Spirit friends were happier at work than my friends at Delta. It wasn't always a failing business model, and not everyone working there was hired after the post-covid slump.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
I totally feel for them. I made the decision to not go there. Those guys can direct entry back to the regionals and have a job
InflncrPltSukDezNuts@reddit
How long have you been in the industry? Spirit used to be a great place to be as a pilot.
Sure, you made the decision not to go. They made the decision to go, and part of that decision included the benefit of being at an ALPA carrier, which includes preferential hiring at other ALPA carriers under these circumstances.
All that aside, if I worked HR/hiring at a legacy and I had an experienced A320 pilot show up with everything in order, I would likely give them preferential hiring over a pilot with no experience on any aircraft in my fleet regardless of Spirit affiliation.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
6 years, 2 as 135 and 4 121. Pic 2 years
InflncrPltSukDezNuts@reddit
That's probably why. I think you'll find the perspective very different among people who were in the industry for any length of time before covid. I've been in it 13 years now and right after covid Spirit and FedEx were the place to be. Now Spirit is gone, and FedEx has been eviscerated culturally by management. The only thing separating your good decision to stay from another pilot's decision to leave for Spirit is, with few exceptions, pure luck.
Please also keep in mind that we're talking about preferential, not guaranteed hiring. Regional pilots will still get legacy jobs, and Spirit pilots will still get the TBNT.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
And thats totally fair. Like that other commentor said i need a crystal ball to help out 😂
TSwiftIcedTea@reddit
Most of the guys still at Spirit at the time of shutdown were hired a decade ago or more when Spirit was in great shape. If they had been looking to go there at the same time you were, they likely would have agreed with you and went elsewhere.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
I see that point. Those are the guys i 100% have empathy for on the street
Moonwalkmike@reddit
I’m not in the industry so i’m curious: if a pilot is already type rated for a certain aircraft that the prospective legacy operates, would it save the legacy money to hire them over a regional pilot since they don’t have to spend (as much) money training those pilots to be proficient on that aircraft?
snafu0390@reddit
It will not save the company money. Every new hire goes through a full type rating course regardless of previous experience
Moonwalkmike@reddit
Thanks!
ShittyLanding@reddit
Can I borrow your crystal ball?
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
Sure man! Seeing as how i made the decision to not go to a failing airline somehow ends up hurting my career 6 years later!
lil_layne@reddit
I hope you keep this energy if you get furloughed and don’t have a job and a family to provide for.
restyourbonesjed@reddit (OP)
I did say it was an unpopular opinion. I have 135 turbine and 1k pic 121 through mexico flying too. Its okay if you disagree and if youre in a better position than me. But if you are at a regional struggling to get hired to have a long career where you dedicated all your finances and skills to, youd be pretty riled up over people getting priority when they made a bad move to go to spirit
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Probably an extremely unpopular opinion but here it goes anyway. I denied going to spirit to go to a regional and work upwards through a company I KNOW isnt going anywhere so that i can start applying for majors. Now i do feel for these spirit guys, however... Heres the unpopular opinion:
Spirit guys shouldnt get priority at legacy interviews, and should have to go to a regional.
People like me and everyone else in the regionals should not have to get stuck because those guys made a bad choice to go to a company that has been shit for a long time.
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