FedEx MD-11 at LAX with left engine removed
Posted by FineEmergency@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 74 comments
Assuming to put back into service. Couldn’t tell if the right one was removed as well
LargeMerican@reddit
So, did they sort the issue with the pylon?
agha0013@reddit
removed the whole engine pylon as well from the looks of it.
Mike__O@reddit
Have to. The work they need to do is pretty invasive and requires the pylon to be completely off the airplane. The inspection cycle for the airplane once it's returned to service is also pretty invasive and significant. They need to do an eddy current inspection every 450 cycles, which may require a pylon drop given how difficult the eddy current inspection proved to be during the initial investigation, and a bearing change every 4000 cycles, which for sure requires a pylon drop.
Boeing basically said "just how bad do you really want to keep flying these airplanes" and FedEx said "pretty damn bad"
bhalter80@reddit
The good news is that 450 cycles is like every 200 days since those are used on long haul flights and not doing a lot of short hops
Mike__O@reddit
TBD. The fleet is going to be domestic only for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure if that's regulatory (i.e. other countries don't want it back) or precautionary. Either way, domestic ops will increase the cycle rate due to the inherently shorter legs. Given current fuel prices and the thirsty nature of the MD, it's gotta be pretty uneconomical, but FedEx clearly needed the capacity, at least in the short-term
84Cressida@reddit
Has nothing to do precautions or other countries not allowing. Fleet won’t be back up to full strength until later this year and they’re concentrating ops on certain routes for operational flexibility.
Luster-Purge@reddit
I wouldn't even say domestic is quite accurate, since the very flight that the MD-11 crashed on was from Kentucky to Hawaii, which by definition is domestic since it was within the US. Maybe it's being nitpicky but the amount of fuel carried for that long haul flight definitely would have played into the aftermath.
Realistically, I'd be surprised if the MD-11 is going to be allowed to fly anywhere outside of the continental US.
84Cressida@reddit
There is no restrictions from flying out of the US. They’re limiting to domestic ops for now due to the fact they’re slowly phasing the fleet back in over the course of the next few months.
bhalter80@reddit
Half seriously I'd be surprised if the union didn't grieve the switch to domestic since it dramatically changes the working conditions for the crews
Mike__O@reddit
They could try, but I doubt they'd be successful. There was just a system bid with specific communication from management to the effect of "the MD is going to be domestic only for the foreseeable future, if you want to fly international, bid off". Given that the pilot group was given ample notice from management in conjunction with an opportunity to bid to a different fleet, I don't know how much ground the union would have to stand on. The union has no say in how the company chooses to operate their airplanes, at least in terms of what fleet services what locations.
bhalter80@reddit
That's part of why I'm not fully serious ... the other part is if they tried it the next email from the company is "The MD fleet is dead again kthxbai"
bhalter80@reddit
I can see that so that could drop it to 100 days instead of 200 if they're doing 2 turns a day instead of 1
fly_awayyy@reddit
If I saw they took a hit of like $120M in either Q4 of 25 or Q1 of 26 with the grounding having and anticipate a further hit this quarter as they ramp up things. So it’s probably worth it for their operation to get them in service and they need the capacity. Utilization will be interesting as you said with fuel prices and with those planes being thirsty.
the_Q_spice@reddit
To illustrate the last point:
The MD can carry basically a 777’s worth of cargo.
But fits in the ramp silhouette of a 767 or A300 due to its smaller wingspan.
So you can fit radically more freight per airport with MD-11s, while also minimizing the real estate rental costs you pay for ramp space.
Sure the inspections are rough… but the amount of money being saved by using the MDs is absolutely astronomical.
Ivebeenfurthereven@reddit
If that's the case why doesn't anyone do a more modern freight design with similar spec?
FJ60GatewayDrug@reddit
Not enough demand for a dedicated freighter with these specs. The MD-11 fleet was converted into freighters, none were designed that way.
escape_your_destiny@reddit
That's not correct. About a quarter of MD11's built, were built as freighters direct from the factory. For example N610FE, delivered new to FedEx as a freighter.
FJ60GatewayDrug@reddit
TIL! But also not exactly what I was trying to say, which is on me. (I’ll edit my comment) The MD-11 (and the DC-10 before it) were designed to carry passengers, then turned into freighters. Some may have come off the line as freighters, but they were designed for self-loading cargo first, then modified to be dedicated cargo haulers. Even the 747 was designed for people first, but had the ability to be somewhat easily converted once it was no longer useful for that business.
An example of a cargo-first design might be the C-17 or C-5, although those obviously have other design criteria that freight companies don’t exactly need.
And to be further pedantic towards myself, airlines tend to make more money from cargo than pax, so in a way, maybe all airliners are actually purpose-built to carry freight and subsidize that ability with their passenger compartments?
flightist@reddit
Some much more than others. For a variety of reasons the 380 will never be converted, whereas future 747 conversions were anticipated by Boeing during the design phase (for reasons that turned out to be completely wrong).
thehedgefrog@reddit
I've always wondered if a 77L Combi would work on certain routes.
the_Q_spice@reddit
Because you need the extra thrust to make it work.
And there’s no market for trijets outside of FedEx’s really niche use of them.
Most cargo airlines don’t have the volume to justify something that optimized either. A huge thing people need to remember is that FedEx takes up over 40% of the global air freight market by itself and is the 5th largest airline of any type in the world.
It’s a radically different scale of operation than even the closest competitors of UPS and DHL.
four024490502@reddit
I wonder if they could save some of the labor by holding the engine in place with a forklift or something. Has anybody ever tried that? /s
FirmAndSquishyTomato@reddit
Probably saving time by taking the whole pylon off with the engine. I heard if you just use a forklift you can save a serious amount of time.
agha0013@reddit
Typically you wouldn't for just a routine engine swap, you hoist the engine down from the pylon into a cart or cradle.
But in this case the fixes needed to address what grounded md-11s in the first place requires the pylon's removal
FirmAndSquishyTomato@reddit
It was an AA191 joke... 🙄
_litz@reddit
That's what the fix for this is - at every location where one of these planes is stranded they're removing the engines, then shipping the entire pylon assemblies back to Memphis for modifications, and either shipping the modified pylons back, or shipping already modified ones to the stranded plane.
Ok_Witness179@reddit
The math on how this could possibly be even almost cost effective just makes no sense to me at all...
Long_Pomegranate2469@reddit
Because you can't buy 15 planes today and have them delivered tomorrow
ragingxtc@reddit
Yea, just think of what the shipping costs must be.
soyouwantausername@reddit
It’s a freight company….theyll just transfer it on their own stuff which is baked into their total OpEx and associated rates they charge their customers. It absolutely nets out in the P&L even if it operationally seems like a clusterfuck.
ragingxtc@reddit
That was the joke.
ProjectNo864@reddit
Beginning the fixes probably?
greatlakesailors@reddit
Makes sense. You'd have to remove the whole pylon to get to the spherical bearing and lugs that were at fault in the UPS crash.
tim_locky@reddit
Lurker here, I assume it was a 3 engine configuration, something happened to the left engine, and they just removed it?
So it’s flying with right and rear engine only? Isn’t airplane supposed to be balanced?
ELI5?
superspeck@reddit
After the crash of the UPS flight 2796 MD-11, all MD-11s were grounded worldwide. FedEx wanted them back in service though, so Boeing designed a repair process so the exact thing that happened to Flight 2796 can’t happen again. Now, FedEx is taking all the wing mounted engines off all their MD11s and shipping the part that needs to be fixed back to their shop, where it will get repaired, and the repaired part and engines will get reinstalled on all the MD11s.
Omniwar@reddit
I believe the B52 is approved to take off with 7 engines in emergency conditions. Of course there's a big difference between 7/8 in military context and 2/3 n a civilian one.
foreverablankslate@reddit
It’s not flying lol it’s getting work done to it
Ok-Pomegranate8977@reddit
They are removing the pylons and shipping them back to Memphis to do the repair. That way they can keep all 29 airplanes in the field and fix them in place.
TampaPowers@reddit
Let's hope the reinstall won't involve a forklift
newhacker1746@reddit
Ahh, the good old days
Ok-Pomegranate8977@reddit
They have created custom tooling for both the pylon removal and the bearing.
bhalter80@reddit
The oversize shipping charges have to be extraordinary there
texanjetsfan@reddit
Good thing they know a guy.
dbcooper4@reddit
This must be the same MD-11 that has been parked there since November of last year.
ConfidentGarden7514@reddit
Sorry if this is a silly question… but wouldn’t removing an engine completely change the center of gravity of the plane? Wouldn’t they have to remove both or attach counterweights?
Fun_Pass_8271@reddit
Both engines have been removed.
biggsteve81@reddit
I imagine they could just put something very heavy in the front of the cargo hold.
shrvs@reddit
High time they were retired. I’ll die on this hill.
sm-junkie@reddit
Noob Question :
Modern Jets (dual engine) can fly large distance with single engine. So can they take off with single engine?
bhalter80@reddit
Depends when the engine fails. If it's above V1 then yes absolutely
Sambal_Oelek@reddit
FedEx ramp employees across the world are groaning with disappointment. These pieces of junk are miserable to unload. MD11s and A300s are both disliked by the people who actually have to load and unload cargo from them.
pizzlepullerofkberg@reddit
Just seeing McDonnell Douglas products makes me smile and tear up at the same time. If only MD adopted a big twin and evolved past the DC-9 they might be still around. Risk aversion really hurt their company.
midsprat123@reddit
Nah
I think it was building dangerous aircraft and making back room deals to avoid legal trouble.
International-Pie262@reddit
I really wished they had built something smaller, similar to the CRJ-700/900. They would've made a killing for small regionals. Would've saved them too!
pizzlepullerofkberg@reddit
Absolutely. If they went down the Bombardier/Embraer route they'd be ok. I guess the MD-95/717 almost tapped into that market but the timing was just bad, right as MD folded and got bought up.
BeBetterEvryday@reddit
Did they remove it or did it fall off? DC-10 joke
Principle_Dramatic@reddit
Nah it’s a new Vision jet prototype.
Ok-Course1615@reddit
Makes it lighter so it can carry more cargo. Duh.
Ferrarisimo@reddit
Have they even tried to store cargo in the engine???
w0nderbrad@reddit
Just replace the tail engine with the new GE9X and voila… don’t need the other 2… because the engine sheared right off the tail lol
Ok_Suggestion_6092@reddit
It’s a safety thing. If the tail engine falls off the other two can’t ingest it like what happened to the UPS jet.
Capable-Heat4231@reddit
This just triggered me to remember that I had a dream that I was flying last night. I was making a low pass somewhere that had MD-11s. I couldn’t see them and kept saying “I have to see the tri jets!” End dream.
Hairy_Improvement_51@reddit
Prophylactic removal.
OptimusSublime@reddit
The new twinjet variant.
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jikesar968@reddit
Maybe they're testing a new way to save more jet fuel by having MD-11 fly with only the tail engine to see if single engine jets are viable. Current oil prices demand it.
OttoVonWong@reddit
Ready to deliver for NASCAR.
iamsotiredofthiscrap@reddit
Did they use a forklift?
rcobourn@reddit
No problem, but deliveries will take twice a long now. Imagine the savings.
ManWithTheWand@reddit
Remove it yourself so it cannot fall off 🧠🧠
WindParticular3691@reddit
The R/H and pylon have been removed as well.
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