And with that said, itās officially Prime nothing.
Go rogue, my captains.
Kirk proceeds to bone every vaguely female alien in the quadrant
Riker being close second
Janeway searches for merged life forms to kill them with fire
Archer goes on insufferable preaches about FREEDOM
Sisko goes on a holy crusade against Maquis
Freeman just goes on as nothing changed
Picard sees all that, just facepalms and retires
Civil Wars - NO... see the episode with the supersoldiers who just wanted to go home, and Picards masterful fuck you to the worlds gov... sorry Prime directive and then peaching out
Supernova, other outside context natural disasters- Of course interfere (and use Worfs brothers holodeck idea... it was kinda genius to evac that way)
Klingons(or other powers ACTIVELY conquering)- beds already been shit I guess
I don't like that rule much. It shouldn't be treated as a dogma, it should be challenged. There have been many situations where following it would be very unethical.
I tend to think this is why prime directive situations have a way of ending up with the crew debating strenuously about whether it applies to the situation, whether it really might be best to just fly away and let the disaster happen, or whether Starfleet was actually destined to intervene, etc. Most people probably don't really like the prime directive, they're in Starfleet because they would prefer to help everybody if they could.
But there's always a certain arrogance in assuming they know what's best for a planet they just discovered. Starfleet is powerful enough to impose their will on many situations but it is also spread thinly enough that they might not make second contact for a century. Plus there certainly are bad seeds in the organization who would gladly take the opportunity to become a dictator or turn a planet into Nazi Germany. So Starfleet has decided they need to prove to themselves (and possibly to a future court martial) that the right decision really is to change a people's way of life, and not to just fly away. So they'll test out all these possible arguments on each other.
The prime directive does often need to be challenged. Its purpose is to try to make sure that altering a whole society's destiny never goes unchallenged.
Basically the entire First Contact film was one giant temporal prime directive violation. They do it constantly. It's barely a guideline. And once you get to ST:VOY, it's gone completely out the window.
Note that when it's not life or death for the locals the tau'ri are very wary of giving tech with less technologically advanced civilizations like Jonas' people.
You want to help a civilization progress on its own as much as it can. It needs to make its mistakes to develop its own identity and culture. But to do all that it must survive, which is my big issue with the dogmatic prime directive.
It's a hard and fast guidline. It's important, but it shouldn't be a hard, absolute rule as there are exceptions. At baseline, it should make captains think on whether the actions they may take warrant breaking such a seriously regarded mandate, and whether or not they can justify their actions to Starfleet.
When your hard and fast rules make you justify why you could easily save millions or billions of people and a unique culture but won't in the name of the slippery slope fallacy, something has gone horribly wrong.
It's not a commandment from on high, etched into stone by the finger of the Prophets. It's a man made rule that serves to inform and guide the decisions captains have to make in the field. If they break it, they will have to defend why to Starfleet, but it's not dogma.
It's a codified law that like any law does its best to account for all possible situations, and often falls short because the universe is uncooperative.
Not that vaguely written, thanks to Prodigy. These are just the sections we know about:
Section 1:
Starfleet crew will obey the following with any civilization that has not achieved a commensurate level of technological and/or societal development as described in Appendix 1.
a) No identification of self or mission.
b) No interference with the social, cultural, or technological development of said planet.
c) No reference to space, other worlds, or advanced civilizations.
d) The exception to this is if said society has already been exposed to the concepts listed herein. However, in that instance, section 2 applies.
Section 2:
If said species has achieved the commensurate level of technological and/or societal development as described in Appendix 1, or has been exposed to the concepts listed in section 1, no Starfleet crew person will engage with said society or species without first gathering extensive information on the specific traditions, laws, and culture of that species civilization. Then Starfleet crew will obey the following.
a) If engaged with diplomatic relations with said culture, will stay within the confines of said culture's restrictions.
b) No interference with the social development of said planet.
Effective-Board-353@reddit
"Would you buy a book called 'The Suggestions of Acquisition'?"
"You mean it was a marketing ploy?"
Louis0XIV@reddit
Prime Suggestion?
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Prime Hint š
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Prime Footnote
Louis0XIV@reddit
Prime Post-it
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Prime memo
Louis0XIV@reddit
Prime notesapp post
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Prime after thought
Louis0XIV@reddit
Prime passing thought
*this message is approved by Admiral āI killed Tuvix and Iāll do it againā Janewayā*
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Prime tip
Louis0XIV@reddit
Prime fleeting thought
Iām not sure I can make it even more irrelevant by this point, I mean we are past ānotes-appā post
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Ok last one Prime pointer
Louis0XIV@reddit
And with that said, itās officially Prime nothing.
Go rogue, my captains.
Kirk proceeds to bone every vaguely female alien in the quadrant
Riker being close second
Janeway searches for merged life forms to kill them with fire
Archer goes on insufferable preaches about FREEDOM
Sisko goes on a holy crusade against Maquis
Freeman just goes on as nothing changed
Picard sees all that, just facepalms and retires
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Good job fellow Trekkie!
Sambojanglez@reddit
Got a lot of Janeways in here I see lol
Aridyne@reddit
Guidline with consequences for fuckups
For example
Civil Wars - NO... see the episode with the supersoldiers who just wanted to go home, and Picards masterful fuck you to the worlds gov... sorry Prime directive and then peaching out
Supernova, other outside context natural disasters- Of course interfere (and use Worfs brothers holodeck idea... it was kinda genius to evac that way)
Klingons(or other powers ACTIVELY conquering)- beds already been shit I guess
Kubaj_CZ@reddit
I don't like that rule much. It shouldn't be treated as a dogma, it should be challenged. There have been many situations where following it would be very unethical.
Business-Decision719@reddit
I tend to think this is why prime directive situations have a way of ending up with the crew debating strenuously about whether it applies to the situation, whether it really might be best to just fly away and let the disaster happen, or whether Starfleet was actually destined to intervene, etc. Most people probably don't really like the prime directive, they're in Starfleet because they would prefer to help everybody if they could.
But there's always a certain arrogance in assuming they know what's best for a planet they just discovered. Starfleet is powerful enough to impose their will on many situations but it is also spread thinly enough that they might not make second contact for a century. Plus there certainly are bad seeds in the organization who would gladly take the opportunity to become a dictator or turn a planet into Nazi Germany. So Starfleet has decided they need to prove to themselves (and possibly to a future court martial) that the right decision really is to change a people's way of life, and not to just fly away. So they'll test out all these possible arguments on each other.
The prime directive does often need to be challenged. Its purpose is to try to make sure that altering a whole society's destiny never goes unchallenged.
Used-Gas-6525@reddit
Basically the entire First Contact film was one giant temporal prime directive violation. They do it constantly. It's barely a guideline. And once you get to ST:VOY, it's gone completely out the window.
Evening-Cold-4547@reddit
It should just be a guideline
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
It's like if you are helping civilizations to be better what's wrong with that?
Evening-Cold-4547@reddit
If you do that then you are worse than Christopher Columbus and every single one of them WILL become Megahitler by the end of the year, guaranteed.
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
So giving antibiotics to a struggling civilization is bad?
settingdogstar@reddit
Yep, turns everyone into space Nazis. Every time.
Thewaltham@reddit
I prefer the Stargate way.
"Your gods are all fake. Here have a P90."
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
Note that when it's not life or death for the locals the tau'ri are very wary of giving tech with less technologically advanced civilizations like Jonas' people.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
You want to help a civilization progress on its own as much as it can. It needs to make its mistakes to develop its own identity and culture. But to do all that it must survive, which is my big issue with the dogmatic prime directive.
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Hmm š¤ I see
Redbeardthe1st@reddit
A Hard and Fast Guideline.
TyrosineJim@reddit
Like Brannigans law!
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Haha yup!
EvernightStrangely@reddit
It's a hard and fast guidline. It's important, but it shouldn't be a hard, absolute rule as there are exceptions. At baseline, it should make captains think on whether the actions they may take warrant breaking such a seriously regarded mandate, and whether or not they can justify their actions to Starfleet.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
When your hard and fast rules make you justify why you could easily save millions or billions of people and a unique culture but won't in the name of the slippery slope fallacy, something has gone horribly wrong.
Thewaltham@reddit
If they don't know you're there, hard and fast rule. If they're the ones making contact go ahead but proceed with caution.
cidvard@reddit
A hard and fast rule except it has a very slippery definition and there are seemingly no consequences for not following it.
Kahnza@reddit
Do this post again, but for the Temporal Prime Directive. And the third option should just be "Janeway". š¤£
Laconic_Jester@reddit
It's not a commandment from on high, etched into stone by the finger of the Prophets. It's a man made rule that serves to inform and guide the decisions captains have to make in the field. If they break it, they will have to defend why to Starfleet, but it's not dogma.
froot_loop_dingus_@reddit
They say itās an iron-clad rule but in practice in the shows and movies itās more of a light suggestion
OhNoIBoffedIt@reddit
It's a codified law that like any law does its best to account for all possible situations, and often falls short because the universe is uncooperative.
Sea-Quality4726@reddit
And it's interpretation and binding precedent will change over timeĀ
Esternaefil@reddit
It's like the Pirate's Code... savvy?
alanskimp@reddit (OP)
Savvy š
balthazar_edison@reddit
Itās so vaguely written it canāt be a hard rule.
OhNoIBoffedIt@reddit
Not that vaguely written, thanks to Prodigy. These are just the sections we know about:
Section 1:
Starfleet crew will obey the following with any civilization that has not achieved a commensurate level of technological and/or societal development as described in Appendix 1.
a) No identification of self or mission.
b) No interference with the social, cultural, or technological development of said planet.
c) No reference to space, other worlds, or advanced civilizations.
d) The exception to this is if said society has already been exposed to the concepts listed herein. However, in that instance, section 2 applies.
Section 2:
If said species has achieved the commensurate level of technological and/or societal development as described in Appendix 1, or has been exposed to the concepts listed in section 1, no Starfleet crew person will engage with said society or species without first gathering extensive information on the specific traditions, laws, and culture of that species civilization. Then Starfleet crew will obey the following.
a) If engaged with diplomatic relations with said culture, will stay within the confines of said culture's restrictions.
b) No interference with the social development of said planet.
Cultural-Arrival-608@reddit
I would say It's a rule, but there can be exceptions if f.e. the civilization asks for help or threatens the lives of starfleet members.