Linux Mobile OS Developers Forget Mobile Isn't Desktop
Posted by MadFunEnjoyer@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 40 comments
Watched The Linux Experience's latest video, and it drove me to check other Linux mobile OS projects. Honestly, my only reaction was disappointment at the way Ubuntu Touch, Plasma Mobile, and PostmarketOS all make the mistake of treating mobile like it's a desktop. I've used many phones in my life (currently a Samsung S Ultra), and I have noticed how much bottom-centric and one-handed friendliness improved my experience. Linux developers who work on mobile OS projects genuinely miss this aspect of mobile, which, to be fair, everyone else in the Android and iOS ecosystems mess up too. They really need to start treating mobile as different hardware with different I/O; otherwise, even actual Linux enthusiasts might be put off by the terrible experience.
PureTryOut@reddit
You're mentioning postmarketOS but as a distro we don't make UI's, we just ship them.
That said, I don't get your complaint at all. Personally I feel the Plasma Mobile UI is very much Android like and works quite well.
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
Brodie described it really well, from 13:45 to 18:45 he points how things are
PureTryOut@reddit
You don't have a textual variant?
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
it's very long and he talks about too many problems to name
SFSIsAWESOME75@reddit
Mobile phone operatong systems are the problem. I don't want all of my programs to be full screened, and I want to be able to multitask as I please. If someone put KDE neon on a phone, I would buy it in a heartbeat
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
this comment pissed me off so much there's not a way I can express it without 3 TOS violations minimum
SFSIsAWESOME75@reddit
The whole point of bringing actually capable linux to the mobile phone market is giving end users more choice. In my case there are like no options for me.
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
The reason there are no options is because nobody wants to use a phone that way, many people simply don't care all that much about multitasking and focusing on such features before actually making a good usable phone is tone deaf. You can't bring decorations before the actual home is built.
SFSIsAWESOME75@reddit
deciding how multitasking in your operating system is literally one of the lowest level things to be designed in an operating system
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
Yes, and to many many many people they in fact want only one option which is full screen, any other option would exclusively be meant to address one-handed use, not for productivity unless you're a power user and the vast majority of people are not power users.
MatchingTurret@reddit
You are free to contribute improvements.
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
yeah but busy with university right now so I'm planning to switch to Linux once I finish and then go learn more graphic design, UI/UX stuff so I can properly design a good concept for inspiration.
Ok-Winner-6589@reddit
I think programming is what they need but yea, probably helping them with UI designs could improve the usability
I would argue that the phones ecosystem is fucked because they have to develop drivers that Desktop distros don't need to develop. This means that they have less time for UI things
Postmarket is fucked trying to get basic funtionallities as audio, video and wifi. They don't have time for UI usability.
KDE has time for that but the mobile usage is almost 0 so they have to maintain the Desktop more
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
Like I said I would do both programming and designing since I'm very interested and nerdy about both, I want to design an Android launcher then build it to showcase my idea of what Linux Mobile could be.
Honestly wouldn't be an issue if Drivers were Open Source from the start but let's not pretend why that wasn't the case.
tbf KDE also working on a TV version although I guess that's more important for Steam Machine gaming (SteamOS is KDE Arch)
Ok-Winner-6589@reddit
The different KDE UIs are independent from each other and plasma for TV is an old project. I think It was recently revived
MrPandastic@reddit
How?
Genuinely asking.
Because just throwing here “you are free to contribute” helps less than actually someone pointing out a UX issue and starts a conversation with the user base, technically doing research publicly.
Had the urge many times to contribute but all died at the point where i had a whole list to figure out before i can fix that broken border radius or such. Learning the codebase, make a locally running version, etc etc which is honestly a lot to ask from designers. And yes i can code too, but even i turned back countless times.
I think majority FOSS projects are bad in UI/UX because the contribution platform is almost exclusively made for code contributors. And probably the majority of good UI/UX came from designers who code as well, so were comfortable with the mentioned pathway.
Correct me if i’m wrong. I like to be wrong.
20dogs@reddit
This sort of attitude is how you end up with random incoherent contributions. Broader strategies are a contribution.
dmknght@reddit
Still better than "then do it yourself" imo. The "do it yourself instead" is the worst.
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
tbf I should've made my own suggestions to give an idea of how to improve things, I was planning to in my post but I feel like I need to put my ideas to real test (designing an Android launcher) before making judgements
sinskinner@reddit
Creating software is easy, creating software for humans is way harder than we think.
0riginal-Syn@reddit
Unfortunately, too many forget the UX part of UI/UX.
gr33nCumulon@reddit
I think all we need is a launcher-centric desktop environment. Opening apps would always be in full screen. You could technically use normal Linux apps but there would be a repository for mobile apps
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
I think you mean launcher-centric mobile environment?
MrPandastic@reddit
I think what he says is like how Steam OS has the launcher acting generally as the OS itself.
Gartenzaun@reddit
Tbh, I feel like ubuntu touch has way better one handed controls than stock android. The gestures alone (like swipe from left to go back, etc) are a gamechanger for me, and have been part of the os since the beginning in 2015 when all the major phone os still relied on a physical button.
Don't know the current state of android and ios, so maybe they caught up, but at least back in the day ubuntu touch was miles ahead in that regard.
NicoBator@reddit
"The gestures alone (like swipe from left to go back, etc)"
Swipe from left is not good enough.
People use phones with one hand, and cannot conveniently reach the opposite side with their thumb. It might be ok for uncommonn actions but not for "go back".
Also users may use one hand 90% of the time but they will sometimes use the opposite hand. Not to mention left handed people.
So it's not a good idea to have différents actions depending on the side. It has to be the same on both sides to accomodate to the user's situation.
Swipe from any side is the best gesture, and only Android understands that use case (Apple is only one side, only on some apps, it's inconsistant and creates friction)
Gartenzaun@reddit
Swipe from any side is configurable, so that's a solved issue. I'm left handed and use my phone mostly with one hand (but not always the same hand) and for me, this is very much good enough.
But that's just, like, my opinon, man ;)
pizza_ranger@reddit
Phones suck, I always wanted something more similar to a pocket pc that works like a desktop
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
You might wanna check this then, it's even better than what you described
Frosty_Dentist_6962@reddit
The whole desktop mindset is probably because most these developers spend their day working at desktops and just port over what feels natural to them. Even big companies struggle with this - look how long it took Android to get proper gesture navigation that actually feels good on large phones.
Linux mobile would probably benefit from having actual phone users in development process instead of just desktop Linux people trying to figure out mobile UX
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
I pointed this out in my post, Samsung is pretty much the only Android OEM putting meaningful effort to make using their phones with one hand feel comfortable.
The main issue I believe is that you would need a new Distro with the one-handed philosophy built into it, I'm thinking of making a Linux inspired Android launcher as a proof of concept of this, I already have a good blueprint for the idea of an app launcher you summon by swiping with two fingers, different spaces for themes/work/other and such.
The-Nice-Writer@reddit
Even my iPhone 16 sticks to use with one hand. Granted I have chronic pain which makes literally everything uncomfortable but a smaller phone would be great if they could get the battery issues sorted. 12 and 13 minis were so close… sigh
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
question, would you buy a flip phone of it was 3:4 y'all and went 4:3 wide?
The-Nice-Writer@reddit
Fuck no. My issue is overall travel distance. Making it wider when I already struggle to reach the opposite side one-handed wouldn’t help and neither would making it taller since I basically can’t reach the top with one hand either. My hands are large, too. Just inflexible and constantly riddled with pain.
Flipping would also be an extra thing I’d need two hands for (opening and closing) unless driven by a button which itself could be yet another ergonomic problem.
I’d be happy with this phone’s one-hand-ability if it were slightly narrower (like, 4/5ths of the current width) and a decent bit shorter (like, 3/5ths height).
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
to be clear I didn't mean a flip phone like the Galaxy Z flip more like imagine a smaller Zenphone 10 that flips to be a small tablet
The-Nice-Writer@reddit
Oh, a foldable.
No, I wouldn’t want that. Too wide to be one-handed and too small to be a significant upgrade in ‘tablet’ mode for what I’d want a tablet to do.
Also, a plastic folding display would mean an increased fragility. When I already have difficulty using devices with poor ergonomics, adding a potential new layer of ‘I need to force my hands to do XYZ’ is not at all what I want.
I basically want the same phone except slightly narrower, a lot shorter and with a better swipe-typing experience.
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
I just realized you're South African, nice to meet you!
The-Nice-Writer@reddit
Good to meet you too, bru!
Especially rough in the South African market since we get far fewer models and brands of phone here than the US and Asia do. No ASUS Zenfones to speak of. None of the niche micro brands either. All the phones we get (even the cheap ones) are larger than I would prefer.
Marce7a@reddit
Just saying they don't need to make anything new, just copy android and it would be enough
MadFunEnjoyer@reddit (OP)
the issue with copying Android is that Android and iOS as well aren't simply phones for apps, they're an integrated system of apps, features and hardware that support those apps and protocols.
This is why Apple, Samsung and Google don't actually treat each other as competitors because the ecosystem of both of these is heavily helped by the fact there's a lot of infrastructure that they mutually benefit from.
This is also why I think Mobile especially requires Open Source infrastructure because competition is actually impossible as long as all the ecosystem required to create a smartphone is heavily dependent on specific manufacturers instead of being universal standards.