The outcast (S5 ep17)

Posted by Ragman676@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 23 comments

My god was this episode is still so ahead of its time. Its clearly about gay conversion but it hits so hard with the current transphobia. Its like it encompassed it all but turnred unside out with current identity culture. Riker going rogue, Worf with patriarchal values joining him. The loss as the conversion makes the whole plot a defeat. Riker reinforcing his relationship with Troi as "more than friends". Theres so much to takeaway in this its just heavy as hell. Peak Startrek among so many other episodes thay makes TNG a fucking bible on so many things that trsnscend the time it was written. Heartbreaking and fabulous for not having the win on this one.

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MrDeekhaed@reddit

I never made the connection with gay conversion but it makes sense

I did think it was mainly representing trans but it all applies to all sexualities and identities

And we cry with each other when things seem hopeless. All of the loving things that you do with each other, that is what we do. And for that, we are called misfits, and deviants, and criminals. What right do you have to punish us? What right do you have to change us? What makes you think you can dictate how people love each other?

It’s so beautiful and more than making you open to other identities, it makes bigotry seem insane. Because there is no good answer to the final question.

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sqplanetarium@reddit

This episode was so meaningful to me as a closeted (by necessity) queer kid. Back then it was so rare to find this kind of message on tv, and it made me want to cry and stand up and cheer at the same time. And it was the icing on the cake to find out later that Frakes had wanted Soren to be played by a male actor.

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Irishwol@reddit

And yet, even in this comment thread it rears its ugly, damnèd head. For all Trek consistently proclaims IDIC, not all the fans get it.

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imjusthereforlaugh@reddit

A man is a man and a woman is a woman. No amount of cosmetic dress up or elective procedure will eeevvveeerrr change that, and the kindest thing to do is to be truthful to the person, not perpetuate a lie that destroys the psyche.

There's no need to connect dots where no dots need connecting. The show does not have any gay or trans under tones.

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Stoivz@reddit

Gender is a social construct.

There’s far more to sex than simply XX/XY. We have lots of other chromosomes that can affect sex.

But keep spewing your ignorance, it just shows how closed minded and uneducated you are.

Infinite diversity in infinite combinations. 🖖

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_Daftest_@reddit

Gender is a social construct.

Sex isn't

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Stoivz@reddit

But more complicated than that good buddy.

To bring it to a child’s level for you, here in Bill Nye to explain it in part 1 and part 2

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_Daftest_@reddit

You patronising little boy

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Stoivz@reddit

Sorry lil buddy, you seem upset. Was the children’s educator too hard to understand?

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_Daftest_@reddit

It's not my fault you don't understand the difference between sex and gender.

Sex is a lot of things - fluid, non-binary, a spectrum, complicated, etc etc etc.

And, sex is not a social construct. Gender is. Sex isn't.

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jonyfive@reddit

I think you have this the wrong way round. Gender is a social construct. Sex is biology, gender is social. I think if more people recognised that gender roles weren't helpful, a lot fewer people would feel the need to transition. I've met more than one trans woman whose motivation was primarily that they didn't identify with society's definition of 'man' rather than their desire to be a woman.

Some males see the 'Man' gender role as a dumpster fire that they don't want to be associated with. I see gender roles as rules to live by, and fuck that.

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_Daftest_@reddit

I think you have this the wrong way round. Gender is a social construct. Sex is biology, gender is social.

That's EXACTLY what I said.

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jonyfive@reddit

To clarify, I mean that you're using gender terms (eg non-binary) as related to sex, when they are genders, not sexes.

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_Daftest_@reddit

The term "non-binary" can be applied to hundreds of things. Not just gender.

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jonyfive@reddit

Yes, you're right it can, including sex. Perhaps I should have also included your use of the word fluid, how do you feel about that one, can people have fluid sexes or just fluid gender? How do you feel about the word pedantry?

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Stoivz@reddit

r/confidentlyincorrect

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imjusthereforlaugh@reddit

Nah, it's not.

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Stoivz@reddit

Yes, it is.

But here, let the great Bill Nye explain it to you like the children you are in part one and part 2

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LordDrakced@reddit

I’m sure this comment is rage bait, but to all those unaware, one of the writers of this episode said that the episode was designed to be “a very obvious metaphor to the gay community and the intolerance they receive.”

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imjusthereforlaugh@reddit

Just common sense.

Might be a "gay" connection, but nothing "trans". That's just the standard definition of presentism.

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