Terrified that I want to fly so bad
Posted by Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 44 comments
A few months ago, I made the mistake of taking an intro flight locally and flying is all I’ve been thinking about lately. Now I’m eyeing up a 150/152 purchase and pursuing the full certs with the possible end goal of airlines. For background, I’m 29 making about $130K/year, have about $150K in retirements and $100K in a rental property that generates profit. My dad and uncle have a baron that I would also eventually like to fly once I meet the insurance mins. Any words of encouragement, warnings, things to think about? Would love to hear from other people who have done all their training in their own airplane. It seems like there are plenty of independent CFIs (I am in the Los Angeles area for reference)
ketralnis@reddit
I'd do the PPL before purchasing. You're better off breaking a school's plane with hand landings than your own. You also won't know what you need or want before you know why you'd want it.
Easy example, while learning to fly I didn't understand why anybody would care about a faster plane if all they want to do is pleasure flying and aren't in a rush; it's not like it feels faster. Now I understand that it's the main contributor to the practical range of the plane.
Similarly when doing my PPL I didn't think I'd care about IFR capability since that seemed too hard and far into the future anyway. Now about an hour of IMC away from an IFR rating I wouldn't dream of buying a plane without it. And now that I also know I wouldn't buy one without an autopilot, not out of laziness but for workload management.
unisonic2025@reddit
How much are 150/152s nowadays
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
$35k seems to be the lower end for slightly clapped basic vfr 150 with timed out engines and it seems like the upper end for cherry low engine HR IFR 152s is around $100k. There is a lot of inventory right now and it seems that list prices are inching down, albeit slowly
jaylw314@reddit
DON'T TRAIN PPL IN YOUR OWN AIRPLANE.
Airplane ownership is in itself a skill that has a unforgivingly steep learning curve. You cannot learn to fly while your hands are full learning how to own an airplane. It also seems to be a motivation to bend rules, take risks or become complacent in a lot of accident reports. Fractional ownership is reasonable, flight club would be great. Many flight clubs have an instructor.
AFTER you get your PPL, then you can buy the plane you want and build hours on it. Preferably a good IFR platform for your rating later.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
My dad has owned 3 planes, and I know others who own planes, so I think I’m slightly better prepared than others for ownership. That being said, I wouldn’t be buying without a very good pre-buy etc etc etc
jaylw314@reddit
That does change things if you're not starting from scratch, yes
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
There is also room in the hangar! I would probably pay for a tie down locally short term but if my next project is closer to home I would keep it in the hangar
Kermit-de-frog1@reddit
50k. Does not buy a lot of ga aircraft, its going likely need significant work. You’ll get more bird (newer/lower hours) in experimental dollar for dollar. And depending whether you can make W&B in the original light sport class (1320lb total weight ) I expect the bottom to fall out of these aircraft with the new mosaic.
General maint (if you’re handy at all with tools) is easily a tenth of the cost compared to GA.
As an example, excluding hangar, insurance ( high for any low time pilot in any airframe ) , and gas ( I burn on average 5-6 gph), my maint cost for the last year .
Tire and tubes , about $750 bucks as I replaced all three , was a couple hour job in the hangar
Brakes , While I had it apart anyway I did brakes to the tune on about $150, that included the rivet press and setter, again easy job
Seatbelts $300 , I didn’t like the 3 point mount and went to a 4 point quick release design with engineered absorption system, my design based on accident loading.
And about 200 bucks for a couple of oil changes , and spark plug replacement when I did my last assisted annual.
The assisted annual cost me a bottle of buffalo trace because my buddy three hangars down is an AP, and when I can find a slot in the two day class I can get to, I’ll be certified to do my own annual after that.
Compare that GA
172 landing light 300-500 bucks
Exp landing light , 25-300 bucks depending on what you choose .
RaiseTheDed@reddit
Your income is actually puts you in an excellent position to not put yourself into debt. Save up for your PPL, if you don't have the funds already. Start with your medical certificate (go for a 1st class, yeah it's more expensive, but better to know you can hold it. Will still last 5 years).
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
Yep, was supposed to do my medical today but had to reschedule for the color visual test. I don’t plan on debt for training expenses, but I would finance the plane (after 20% down etc)
falcopilot@reddit
I'd say start flying now and get some hours under you before buying; you can take lessons, don't need a medical until you're ready to solo.
And possibly not then, given MOSAIC you should be able to train as "Sport Pilot" in a 150/152.
Be sure you can pass at least a 3rd class medical- failing rules out all powered flight until you resolve that, and while not impossible to overcome for most reasonable things, it'll be tens of thousands of dollars. I have a friend in the middle of this and he submitted 3,000 pages of PDFs supporting the basic concept of "he was taking anti-anxiety meds because he was getting a divorce".
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
Yep I’m planning on a few lessons and having a first class medical in hand before I’d make the jump of buying.
__joel_t@reddit
A commonly cited statistic is that 80% of student pilots never get their private cert. I would wait until you have your PPL in hand before buying, and using the money saved for the down payment to pay for your lessons.
junkyardman970@reddit
Make sure you can get your medical before anything. I bought my own plane to train in because I had no options for as there no planes to train with within 200 miles. I found a CFI that was willing to train me in my own plane first then bought a Cessna 182P. But I don’t know if I would suggest one this route, especially being where you live there’s gotta be some rental trainers around.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
Yea I was supposed to do my AME today, but the place I went didn’t have color visual test so I had to reschedule. There are schools near me, but they all charge like $200+hr wet and scheduling is difficult because of my day job
junkyardman970@reddit
200 per hour wet is not bad. When I was training I was paying a CFI $80 per hour, plus fuel, insurance, maintenance and hanger rental. It was definitely costing me more that $200 an hour to own my plane. In the long run you’re going to outgrow a 150/152 before it’s paid off.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
I probably wouldn’t pay for a hangar for a 150, and also I would be able to keep it in my dads hangar for a lot of the time too (his airport is about 90min from me so I wouldn’t want it that far away while I’m trying to fly regularly though other than weekends
junkyardman970@reddit
Simple math will tell you you’re probably going to be over $200 an hour no matter how you factor it. Fuel, I’m not sure what the exact burn rate on a 152 is, but I’m guessing it’s around six gallons per hour times seven dollars a gallon= $42. Also not sure what private CFI charge there but I’m guessing it’s between 80 and $100 an hour. For Insurance for a new owner with zero hours, I’m guessing anywhere between $3000 to $5000 a year with an average of three hours per week comes out to $25 per hour at $4000 a year. Then factor in maintenance. Storing on the line isn’t free either. Then the scary things come up like a one bad annual could cost you $60,000.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
I’ve read a few owner write ups of hourly cost including loans over 3+ years and it’s usually right around $100/hr. But flexibility is what I want most. Quick laps in the pattern on days I don’t work late. Overnighting trips a ton etc
junkyardman970@reddit
Probably owners with lots of hours with cheap insurance and that aren’t paying a CFI either. Not trying to discourage you just letting you know the reality.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
Specifically owners starting from ppl. I mean I watched my dad do it and he 100% recommends I do it that way too. My 1 other pilot friend also did it this way 🤷♂️
TxAggieMike@reddit
Color vision test can be done on the doctor’s iPad.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
The AME I went to was running his practice through a Motorola flip phone im dead serious lol (he was very elderly)
junkyardman970@reddit
Have you even filled out your MedXPress online form yet? Not sure how he would even be an AME without a computer lol
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
Yes I did so I was a tad annoyed to have to take a morning off work only to find out he couldn’t do that after the hour drive to his office
retiredaaer@reddit
If you don’t remember anything else, remember this. When flying a twin,
NEVER GO BELOW BLUE LINE.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
🫡
BrtFrkwr@reddit
Oops. You're ruined. You've got the bug and you won't be any good for anything else from now on.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
I keep catching myself at work on Beechtalk!!!! 🙃🙃🙃
BrtFrkwr@reddit
That's good. If you're flying a Beech there's a lot of good information out there.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
Yea I’m making an effort to ride along with him more often in the Baron too. I was shocked during my discovery flight how much I’ve actually absorbed just riding along in the ride seat all my life
BrtFrkwr@reddit
The Baron is a good airplane to learn a lot about. I've flown and worked on a Baron a lot and it's a substantial airplane. Bonanza society has a lot about Barons too. They are twin engine Bonanzas. There are some good training videos on youtube also.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
Yea the main thing that will keep me out of the families baron for a while at least would be insurance - but it would be an amazing platform once I can get cleared to fly it. G1000, FIKI and 600hp is pretty sick
BrtFrkwr@reddit
Be very careful of the 600 hp. The Baron along with the Aerostar and the Twin Comanche has a vertical stabilizer/rudder stall characteristic on one engine that is a killer. There are some good videos on this. Army discovered this after losing two planes in Nevada doing multi-engine training. Please do some learning about this.
joshsafc9395@reddit
I would walk (get medical & PPL) before i could run (plane ownership) personally but YMMV
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
Absolutely - was supposed to do my medical today but the AME I went to couldn’t do the color visual so I had to reschedule! I’ve already gotten my study material for written
pballer2oo7@reddit
Your income is cute. Use only your income (not debt nor your unmarketable savings or “rental property that generates profit”) to start working on a class 3 medical, passing knowledge test score, and private pilot certificate.
Have fun and report back in 3 months.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
I should’ve mentioned one of the main reasons I want to buy a 150/152 is time flexibility. I work ~55hrs a week so week day flying would be difficult to plan ahead of time
pballer2oo7@reddit
Uh huh.
Owning an airplane is not going to help with time flexibility.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
Also having my own plane wouldn’t prohibit me from renting occasionally
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
The three pilots I know all strongly recommended buying a plane from the start - it’s taken me over 2 weeks to get a time slot with the local flight school AND they charge $215/HR for the plane. The math would probably look different in a cheaper flying market
H8s2Land@reddit
You can absolutely do this. I would rethink the 152 and look into a 172 or a Piper Cherokee instead. The 172 and Cherokee are decent instrument platforms, where as the 152 not so much.
Also, get the multi ticket as soon as possible and spend all your time in the twin. Multi time is gold!
Good luck.
I’m also in SoCal. Been flying there for 30 years. DM me if you want to chat.
Disastrous-Pea-7222@reddit (OP)
A 172 would definitely be nicer but my budget right now is only around $50K for plane purchase. If used plane prices keep trending down I will consider a 172!
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
A few months ago, I made the mistake of taking an intro flight locally and flying is all I’ve been thinking about lately. Now I’m eyeing up a 150/152 purchase and pursuing the full certs with the possible end goal of airlines. For background, I’m 29 making about $130K/year, have about $150K in retirements and $100K in a rental property that generates profit. My dad and uncle have a baron that I would also eventually like to fly once I meet the insurance mins. Any words of encouragement, warnings, things to think about? Would love to hear from other people who have done all their training in their own airplane. It seems like there are plenty of independent CFIs (I am in the Los Angeles area for reference)
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