CMV: Italian cuisine has more variety, influence, and refinement than Romanian cuisine

Posted by tameimpala97@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 31 comments

I want to clarify that I do not think Romanian food is bad. I actually like a lot of Romanian dishes, especially sarmale, mici, ciorbă, mămăligă, cozonac, and papanăși. Romanian food is hearty, comforting, and very good in a home cooked or traditional setting.

But if I am comparing the two cuisines overall, I think Italian cuisine is stronger.

My main argument is that Italian cuisine has more variety, more regional depth, and a better balance between simplicity and refinement. Different parts of Italy have very distinct food identities: Neapolitan pizza, Roman pasta dishes, Sicilian seafood and desserts, Tuscan stews, northern risottos, Emilia-Romagna pasta and cured meats, and so on. It feels like there are many “Italian cuisines” inside one national cuisine.

Romanian cuisine, while good, feels more limited to me by comparison. A lot of its best-known dishes are heavy, meat-based, sour cream-based, cabbage-based, or soup-based. That can be delicious, but I do not think it has the same range as Italian food in terms of pasta, seafood, vegetables, breads, cheeses, cured meats, sauces, desserts, and regional specialties.

Italian food also seems more globally adaptable. Pizza, pasta, risotto, gelato, espresso culture, tiramisu, focaccia, bruschetta, and many other Italian foods have become popular internationally because they are easy to love but still have strong culinary traditions behind them. Romanian food, by contrast, feels more like comfort food that works best if you grew up with it or are eating it in a Romanian family/home setting.

I also think Italian cuisine does a better job of making simple ingredients taste elevated. A dish like cacio e pepe, carbonara, margherita pizza, pesto pasta, or caprese salad can be very simple but still feel complete and balanced. Romanian food can be flavorful, but it often feels heavier and less elegant to me.

To be fair, Romania has some great food, and I think Romanian soups, grilled meats, pickled foods, and holiday dishes deserve more attention. I also understand that Romanian cuisine has influences from the Balkans, Ottoman cuisine, Slavic cuisine, Hungarian cuisine, and Central/Eastern Europe, which makes it interesting historically.

But overall, if I had to judge by variety, global influence, regional identity, balance, technique, and how often I would want to eat it, I would say Italian cuisine is better than Romanian cuisine.

Change my view.

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Usual-Trouble-2357@reddit

Romanian cuisine has most Balkan, Anatolian and Central European dishes which can be made with ingredients available in Romania. It really isn't lacking in diversity - what you can probably most fault it is that it lacks an overarching philosophy.

Also I may get shot for this but Italian food is not "refined". It is great, it really is. But the whole point is that it is meant to be based around great quality ingredients and simple preparations. It's for example the French that have complex preparation methods and more ingredients to have something that is consistent as long as the ingredients are fine, the Italians are more of the 'I was there when the cow that gives the milk my cheese was born and my family have known the farmers for generations' philosophy.

Also, Romanian cuisine is not really it's own thing. I think it's better to discuss it in a wider context of Balkan cuisine for the most part.

That being said, the beauty of Romanian food is that dishes from Greece and Anatolia to Austria and Germany are essentially part of our cuisine for centuries. Hell, now that Romanians went to Italy and came back you can basically find really authentic Italian food at almost any street corner.

Ah, and the last thing - to compare a more similar climatically country to Italy - Greece beats Italy hands down and IDGAF what anyone else says. It's not even a context.

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One_more_drink_@reddit

Funny read, I liked your rant. Do you have any Romanian wine recommendations?

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Usual-Trouble-2357@reddit

My favorite region in Romania is Drăgășani. Elegant wines, ripe and fruity but still complex and acidic enough. The result of cold air coming down the Olt Valley from the mountains combined with it's southern position that gets them a lot of sun.

From Drăgășani I would say Avincis and Știrbey are the best producers. Crama Bauer is a smaller winery that also buys grapes from other places, run by the winemaker at Știrbey as a personal project, also pretty great. Negru de Drăgășani is a great grape that is good young and very long lived. Alutus is just starting to be released but seems to be an amazing grape - it can be fruity while also being a bit leafy in a more fig leaf/bramble way and not a Cabernet Franc bell pepper way. For white wines, Crâmpoșie is a nice enough white grape, Fetească Albă is beautifully aromatic and complex. Bauer's 1920 wine is a great white field blend containing the old varieties from the region, like Crâmpoșie, Braghină, Iordan, which are almost forgotten now.

In Dealu Mare, which has riper, more corpolent wines, Aurelia Vișinescu is a benchmark for Feteasca Neagra, as is Davino for international grapes.

In Romanian Moldova, the terroir in Cotnari is great and it's an important historical region but unfortunately there's underinvestment and too much high yield production for cheap. But Frâncușă is a great acidic grape that is universally cheap, and the Millésime line of sparkling wine is good, from Frâncușă and Grasă.

By the seaside, Crama Delta Dunări does some good Pet-Nat, and Domeniul Bogdan makes good wine at all price levels.

In Transylvania proper, unfortunately the situation is not great. Mostly high production, not so much great quality. I'm ashamed to say this as a Transylvanian. There's some good stuff from Lechința however.

In Banat and Crișana the situation is much better. Recaș makes wine at both volume and quality, in a very New World style(one of their winemakers is actually working at Penfolds and comes to Romania in the Southern hemisphere off season). My favorite producer from the region however is Balla Geza, he makes great wine from Romanian, Hungarian and international grapes. His Fetească Neagră and Cabernet Franc blend is unique ans great, and his Cadarcă/Kadarka is I think the best out of both Hungary and Romania. Carassia makes really great Champagne-style and Asti method sparkling wines from Burgundian grapes and Fetească Albă.

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One_more_drink_@reddit

I expected like a top 5 and instead I got this fat and juicy comment. Thank you for your time, I'm going to try that sparkling wine from Cotnari.

I need to dig deeper in this wine industry, my knowledge is very limited and I want to expand it.

Now that you've mentioned it, I bought a plastic bottle of the cheapest Tokaj I found and to my surprise it was drinkable, I never thought that was actually possible.

I'm going to save your comment, thank you again.

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Usual-Trouble-2357@reddit

About Tokaj - try Disznókő, they're pretty much the best producer and quite affordable(one can make an argument for Oremus too, but much more expensive). 5 or 6 Aszu sweet wine is just incredible, so sweet yet incredibly balanced. Dry Szamordony too, amazing wine. Balassa is also quite good and easily available.

And you're welcome!

alpidzonka@reddit

I guess bro, I mean it's good, but the insistence that it's somehow elevated and refined reeks of inferiority complex to me. Italian food is frankly rebranded comfort food, same as with the rest of us. Like a million times you'll hear the typical "like nonna used to make it" and similar comments.

You mention carbonara, which is quite literally just what they could put together with WW2 rations for US soldiers occupying Italy. Bacon, cream, cheese, powdered egg yolks and pepper and somehow this isn't on the "heavier and less elegant" side? I'd beg to differ.

Not to mention that a lot of these other dishes we encounter mediated through Italian American fast food culture. Which isn't bad at all, I honestly prefer an American pizza to a rustic Neapolitan one tbh, but it's worth pointing out.

If you wanted rebranded courtly food which used to be made for aristocrats, you could have said idk, French.

Familiar_Anywhere815@reddit

Carbonara does not contain cream and bacon isn't what's being used.

Anyway, the vast majority of Italian dishes originate from "cucina povera" (poverty cuisine) and are not elevated whatsoever - extremely simplistic and vibed based on what nonna has around the house. Anyone suggesting Italian food is refined or aristocratic fundamentally misunderstands the spirit of Italian cooking. There are exceptions, of course, but that's the overall truth.

> Carbonara does not contain cream and bacon isn't what's being used.

It did originally, the modern snobbery (only guanciale, never bacon and never cream) is more modern. Which is pretty funny since the first recipes for carbonara ever come from the early 1950s.

BamBumKiofte23@reddit

No, no, you can't say that Italians have an inferiority complex when it comes to food, that's... totally fair, never mind, keep going -- but please remove the cream from the carbonara because that's like totally not rustic and homemade and nonna will cry /s

You guys are beating them so bad with the same ingredients it's not even funny. I'd take Greek over Italian 9/10 times.

Yup, Greek food is what Italian food wants to be.

Early-Show2886@reddit

I don't think that comparison is fair.

Italian cuisine has its own culinary identity, and Romanian cuisine has its own.

So, you really can't make a blanket statement or comparison claiming that one is better than the other.

Arge_Deianira@reddit

Yes and No! Italian cuisine is more public, more advertised and Romanian cuisine is almost unknown (the real one you can't find it in restaurants, but in gandmothers houses). First is almost mediteranean, other is a continental cuisine. Fritto misto is good, but a grilled catfish or a traditional fisherman's borscht in Danube Delta makes you cry! Prosciutto is very good, but a cold-smoked pork confit under lard it stays in your memory for the rest of your life. I don't want to be rude but what italians call yogurt can't be considered so and for sure we can't put it near romanian buttermilk, ayran, kefir or buffalo&sheep yogurt! Both are so different! BUT in sweets&cookies Romanian cuisine are 100 more complex (french, turkish, eurasiatic, balkanic, mediteranean influences). So, what people says are italian cuisine it's just a little part of it, there are things very, very good usually few people talk about (sardinian sweets, olive all'ascolana, pastiera napoletana etc); real Romanian cuisine is family made and nobody will always know it! Usually italians are better in cooking vegetables, romanian in meat (beef, veal, mutton, lamb etc). I come from a Romanian-Italian family so I know a lot about both!

ina_while_crocodile@reddit

Exactly this! I came here to say that Italian food has always had more marketing. It's not that it's not good. I love it! But you can't compare a cuisine that is made very popular all over the world (even in American movies) with a more obscure one. Plus, I feel that the "traditional Romanian cuisine" that is pushed everywhere by restaurants is just a selection of varied dishes. Romania has loads of different influences depending on the region. And many fantastic dishes never make it to thw mainstream restaurants.

Romania2001@reddit

Very good comment.

FrothyEspresso@reddit

Italian food is basically a kids menu but for adults.

European food is nice and healthy, but it’s amateur in terms of complexity compared to Indian, Chinese, and other Asian dishes.

Antique_Birthday6380@reddit

I don’t think the same.

Individual_Formal130@reddit

Is Chinese food actually that complex and why do all the Chinese take away food joints sell the exact same lemon chicken, sweet and sour pork, fired rice etc because that's not complex cuisine. Yes you can say it's not authentic then we could ask why hasnt the authentic food gained traction. Japanese food is not complex either.

I agree Italians love to pretend that everything their southern peasant forefathers bought to other countries is the height of civilization and gastronomy but are these other cuisines really that much better because they add some chilli ??

It’s not “authentic” in the sense that it’s not what they typically eat on the mainland because us foreigners (white people) don’t really want to end bones, pigs feet, intestines, etc. to the same degree that they can appreciate.

It’s more complex because they use a lot more sauces, vegetables, and spices.

For example, my spouse is Asian and the amount of sauces she mixes when making food is probably 6+ different bottles.

However, I still feel like European feed is much easier on the stomach and honestly, healthier too.

But it’s way less complex lol

Ok yeh I see your point. When you say Asian what group though Japanese use lots of soy and sesame oil and I've read for people who love there long term the food is actually quite bland after a while. Others use oyster, fish, soy and sesame are those the sauces your referring too.

I like Italian but I do consider it very overrated partly because it's so easy to eat at home. I'm surprised anyone would even go to an Italian restaurant. Pasta, sauce bada bing bada boom and there ya go.

I agree. lol I also don’t go to Italian restaurants for the same reason. We think alike.

And she’s Korean, yeah she uses soy, fish, oyster, chilis and chilli powder, sesame, peanut, etc

Also European baked goods or desserts from any country are superior to anything from asia.

That’s like saying Messi is better than Bruno Fernandes tbh.

As a Romanian, I can say that I eat Italian all the time. Our Latin relatives influenced us a lot. Italians are the most numerous permanent foreign community in Romania (excluding Moldovans obviolsly), while Romanians are the biggest diaspora in Italy. We have many mixed families and it's normal to ne like that. I myself have Italian friends who teach me a lot about their food, and certainly every Italian knows at least one Romanian. Our cuisine is a mix on influences. Romania is a Southeastern European country, bordering both the Balkans and Central Europe in the same time. We took many receipes from everywhere and shaped them in our own form. We also have Romanian original food, but you need to know where to find it. Our gastronomy is very delicious, with many flavours, beautiful deserts (cozonac, chec, different kinds of pies, tematic ones also, like pască for Easter, etc). Compared to the Italian one in taste, I think Romanian food is at least the same in quality. But in texture, yes, it's usually havier, it doesn't have the same class all the time. Mediteranean quisine is usually much light, and that's an advantage. In Bucharest, Brasov, Sibiu, Cluj-Napoca, Timisoara, wherever is full of Italians or Romanians who lived in Italy, you see even a mix fron both gastronomies. And I think it's a good advantage on a long tearm.

alexidhd@reddit

Funnily enough not a single one of the dishes you mentioned are actually Romanian except for papanasi, they are different degrees of adaptation of dishes adopted from other cultures that interacted with us. Sarmale are ottoman in origin, we just use pork instead of whatever turks would have used. Mici are a skinless type of sausage that originates somewhere in the balkans but pretty further south from Romania. Ciorba, the sour variety of soup that we know today originates in Ukraine a few hundred years ago. And mamaliga is mediterranean, most probably Spanish as it's made from corn which was first introduced to Europe by the Spaniards after discovering the american continent. Cozonac is greek at origin.

Now, in all seriousness, our cuisine is a reflection of our territory's geography. It has a lot of meat, fats and other heavy foods because that's what you need in order to survive a Carpathian winter - you would literally die if you only ate a Sicilian diet without modern heating and ammenities. Italy is generally warmer and has way less temperature variation between seasons due to being surounded by water - their people can afford to eat pasta, small portions of cured meats, and lighter foods because that's enough to survive in their climate.

Do you really think Romanian peasants 200 years ago ate like that? They used to die from pellagra all the time, they were severely malnourished and this phenomena lasted until the communists came here. If you look at WWI pictures of Romanian soldiers and their counterparts from other countries you're going to see that our people were waaaay smaller. Even today this affects us, you're probably taller than your parents and so do almost everyone I know, meanwhile in the West height has plateaued.