Yeah, I feel like most people are convinced on Chinese EVs, I am. But I need a while to get convinced on Chinese ICE cars because we havent seen as much
People still trust kia/Hyundai after generations of shit quality because they have lower initial prices than competitors. Why wouldn't the exact same thing work for China? Most people are dumb and don't think past the purchase price.
Nah. I've just picked up a new BMW 330e PHEV and for my use it's absolutely perfect, 60 mile EV range which is more thns enough for the commute, has a great engine and gearbox for country road fun and for the Drive to Germany for the Nurburgring with the kid I don't have to faff about charging late at night. Ideal.
I think you’re right. I’d never buy one of these new but give it a few years, if they seem to be at least somewhat reliable long term then they could be a real bargain one day.
May I ask what makes you be so sceptical? The volumes sold with generally positive feedback seem to prove that they're worthy to be honest.
What's weird is that in a very short time they've managed to create products that are functionally more reliable, better and cheaper than the established manufacturers.
isnt phev a turn off for people because they are far more expensive? i've checked germany's vw website and their phev golf cost 12k euro more than the petrol-only version
Depends where you are. Lots of countries are taxing non hybrids out of existence. In Ireland a new BMW M3 is more expensive than an M5 for this reason.
I love these fucking horrible pile of shit crossover mini SUVs because when I'm pulling out of junctions at the side of them in my normal size car I can't see fucking anything.
I’ve read a few of those recently on my new kindle unlimited subscription. They are so disconnected from reality and anti EV it’s hilarious. I’ve stopped reading and supporting them now as I love my electric car.
I humbly disagree, because that reduces the essence, or the "soul" of a sports car, to its engine. I think that ignores the role of vehicle dynamics engineering. Having worked in the industry, the amount of EV engineers who are absolute car enthusiasts will surprise you. People pushing the limits of performance EVs (whether modified road EVs or absolute prototypes) to wring out the last bit of performance, I think they are more hardcore than 99% of the people here. You'd be surprised too by how many performance/motorsports engineers are optimistic about EVs.
usually the soul of a sports car is the engine and I think many would agree with me. Electric cars can be cool, but until they start to sound like electric trains with actual proper motor noise...
I can respect the engineering that goes into them through, but again, it's all bland crossover SUVs, with only the Lucid Air and the chinese innovating and putting out actually interesting EVs.
It's hilarious how bad they are at names. I'd say the knock-off styling also doesn't help establish them as a serious manufacturer, but it seems that's something many people actually want.
Chery is the worst at this. They don't really have a design nor branding identity. Seriously, their lineup consists of Range Rover copycats, Lexus RX copycats, Audi copycats, etc. The names are dumb as well. Like, who thought Lepas sounds good? Or Exlantix?
Some companies, like Geely, are much more competent, though. Zeekr is still an odd name, but people are getting used to it now, and their cars genuinely look pretty good.
BYDs too are generally pretty good. Denza, Leopard, all are fine names. Even Yangwang, which is just straight up the Chinese name, and I respect that.
My theory on why they copy styling is because luxury brands like Range Rover and Audi are too expensive for the average buyer in china but they may like the overall design of those brands.
So chery sees it as an opportunity to offer something with similar design for a lot less and using screens on the interior makes it a lot easier for them since they can carry over the interior styling across multiple sub brands relatively quickly and for cheap.
They also recognized there’s a market outside of china where people have similar views; they want a luxury brand but can’t afford it so they’re willing to buy the cheap lookalike.
Zeekr sounds cool and their naming schemes for the cars make sense 001 is the top spec one, then you have the 7GT, which is the estate version of the 7X.
Then for SUVs u have the X, 7X, 8X and 9X, which makes sense.
The only weird one for Zeekr is the sedan version of the 7GT/7X. They call it the Zeekr Luxury Sedan, which sounds based, but would have been cooler if they just called it 7S/7Sedan...
Xpeng also have a decent naming convention, but, on the other hand, BYD does a terrible job at it because they have Dolphins, Seals, Sealions and Attos all mixed up. Sure I know which one is which, but that is because I am interested in Chinese cars...
On top of that, Jaecoo and Omoda are sub-brands of Chery, names which sound suspiciously Korean and Japanese sounding despite them claiming completely different origins
Lotus is a little different to MG. Lotus the company still exist and do a lot of engineering and development work where as MG is just badge engineering where nothing of the original MG still exists.
Ridiculous. This is a bad vehicle and the design is a blatant copy of a Range Rover, just uglier. Cheaply built and sold way OVERPRICED. The ONLY reason people buy them is bc of aggresive influencing, bc the media tells them that this is a better Range Rover for less money and prestigeous / high status and for whatever reason people fall for it. Sad.
Kind shock most people in Britain buy this over than Puma, I mean it's considered a big car in there. Consider tiny streets and roads in so common in Britain, I can't believe most people there wanting big car.
Its mainly because its cheap and it looks very similar to a Range Rover. Tbf its not bad for the money, £30,000 brand new. Mpg is shocking though, it gets about 35mpg
This would be a compact / subcompact SUV/crossover to Americans. It's the size of an Audi Q3, Volvo XC40, which are top sellers in Europe. Are these really what you'd consider big cars?
Not even slightly, it’s the same size as an X1. It’s a subcompact suv in the US. That said, I don’t believe that Europeans would even consider this to be a big car, I’ve never seen anyone complaining about the “huge” size of the BMW X1…
Had one of these behind me on a dual carriageway a couple days ago, plate suggested it was less than a year old. Was travelling at 70 in lane 2, coming up on a fairly gentle bend. As we're going round I noticed in my mirror it understeering halfway into lane 1 before the driver could get control of it.
They're utter wank. All image, no substance, and frankly it's dangerous for a car of that size to handle so shit.
Interesting to discover seeing as my entire exposure to these is the UKCarTalk page. Owners are frequently on there complaining about the cars numerous faults.
You can't be this dense surely? Do you understand the economies of scale China has? The average Chinese auto worker gets paid $4 an hour. In Europe its 30 euros plus. Do you understand what that means regarding retail sale price? So unless you are advocating for European workers to work for slave wages, you really should shut up. And don't talk about quality when every week there's stories of these Jaecoo shitboxes bricking themselves.
People in Britain have basically given up their automakers, most just chose to buy the cars from foreigner automakers and let their own brands to control by foreigner automakers too. It isn't new to know how pathetic.
Completely unsurprising they are absolutely everywhere and the finance deals are ridiculously cheap. Think they've been going out the door at 0% finance ,£249 a month type deals.
fgalv@reddit
I was surprised to learn these aren’t all electric. Who is buying a complex PHEV car from china?? At least a BEV would likely have less to go wrong!
FrozenUruguayBallbac@reddit
Yeah, I feel like most people are convinced on Chinese EVs, I am. But I need a while to get convinced on Chinese ICE cars because we havent seen as much
TheOneRickSanchez@reddit
People still trust kia/Hyundai after generations of shit quality because they have lower initial prices than competitors. Why wouldn't the exact same thing work for China? Most people are dumb and don't think past the purchase price.
Perth_R34@reddit
PHEVs are best of both worlds.
And Chinese PHEVs are reliable enough.
Traxious@reddit
phevs are not the best of both worlds. evs all the way/
londonprofessional@reddit
Nah. I've just picked up a new BMW 330e PHEV and for my use it's absolutely perfect, 60 mile EV range which is more thns enough for the commute, has a great engine and gearbox for country road fun and for the Drive to Germany for the Nurburgring with the kid I don't have to faff about charging late at night. Ideal.
Traxious@reddit
catl’s condensed battery does 800 miles on a single charged😭
Sasja_Friendly@reddit
Not when you are doing 100-150mph on the autobahn
Traxious@reddit
then wait for solid state fluoride ion or normal F-ion. it will have better range than a gas car at 130 mph.
Sasja_Friendly@reddit
Sounds amazing. How long do I have to wait?
Traxious@reddit
around 2-3 years. and thats for 40-50k cars, then for cheap cars arounr 2030.
flapsmcgee@reddit
We are definitely more than 2 or 3 years away from fluoride ion batteries.
Traxious@reddit
of course. 2030\~ is for mass market.
Sasja_Friendly@reddit
Damn. That's exciting
Traxious@reddit
for sure.
Nareeeek@reddit
You get 60 miles of range on the 330e?
mgobla@reddit
Most people aren't going to charge them and will need \~ 10l per 100km
For americans: That's \~ $ 20 fuel cost for 62 miles.
TheLoveKraken@reddit
Let’s be honest, it’s a cheap knock off Range Rover, and it’s still likely to be more reliable than a proper one.
fgalv@reddit
I guess they’re nearly all on lease deals too so all covered by warranty, therefore people don’t care.
TheGrogsMachine@reddit
I wonder what the resale value of these will be. Expect the depreciation will be brutal.
fgalv@reddit
Agree. Will be interesting to see in 2/3 years how much the new Chinese EVs in particular cost 2nd hand when they come off Lease.
lifegoeson2702@reddit
Also there’s the issue of spare parts, as Chinese cars get replaced or updated every 5 minutes
Marcos_Narcos@reddit
I think you’re right. I’d never buy one of these new but give it a few years, if they seem to be at least somewhat reliable long term then they could be a real bargain one day.
alkankyvich@reddit
May I ask what makes you be so sceptical? The volumes sold with generally positive feedback seem to prove that they're worthy to be honest.
What's weird is that in a very short time they've managed to create products that are functionally more reliable, better and cheaper than the established manufacturers.
ActualCounterculture@reddit
isnt phev a turn off for people because they are far more expensive? i've checked germany's vw website and their phev golf cost 12k euro more than the petrol-only version
as far as i know only the chinese sell cheap phev
TimmyWatchOut@reddit
European hybrids are just tax dodging tools
captainoconnor@reddit
Depends where you are. Lots of countries are taxing non hybrids out of existence. In Ireland a new BMW M3 is more expensive than an M5 for this reason.
H3rBz@reddit
You'd be surprised. They're selling a hell of a lot of BYD Sharks in Australia. a PHEV Ute.
kieranhorner@reddit
I love these fucking horrible pile of shit crossover mini SUVs because when I'm pulling out of junctions at the side of them in my normal size car I can't see fucking anything.
axSupreme@reddit
Sounds to me, that you need an even bigger crossover.
threeinacorner@reddit
Lmao Top Gear magazine is not going to like this
itsamemarioscousin@reddit
Carwow will be wetting themselves with excitement though. Chery can do no wrong in their vids.
No_Doubt_About_That@reddit
This is the new Chery and it’s a bit like
truthlesshunter@reddit
I stoped watching their "reviews" a while back because it's obviously being paid by Chinese ev companies.
To be clear.. I'm not against Chinese EVs at all.... But when you mask ads as reviews, you lose my respect and viewership.
rocketbunny77@reddit
It was all the constant yelling that did it for me.
MarcusH26051@reddit
Yeah I just can't deal with Matt yelling all the time. If I want to watch a review on something I'll wait for What Car.
MultipleScoregasm@reddit
I’ve read a few of those recently on my new kindle unlimited subscription. They are so disconnected from reality and anti EV it’s hilarious. I’ve stopped reading and supporting them now as I love my electric car.
Khidorahian@reddit
Aren’t they for car enthusiasts anyways?
r0bbiebubbles@reddit
Can EV drivers not be enthusiasts?
rolandomagic@reddit
A small percentage might be but the odds are a lot less. Most enthusiasts see EVs as white goods.
r0bbiebubbles@reddit
Any source for that?
Khidorahian@reddit
Not particularly? I see EV people more as tech guys over actual car and driving enthusiasts. I am welcome to other opinions though.
threeinacorner@reddit
I humbly disagree, because that reduces the essence, or the "soul" of a sports car, to its engine. I think that ignores the role of vehicle dynamics engineering. Having worked in the industry, the amount of EV engineers who are absolute car enthusiasts will surprise you. People pushing the limits of performance EVs (whether modified road EVs or absolute prototypes) to wring out the last bit of performance, I think they are more hardcore than 99% of the people here. You'd be surprised too by how many performance/motorsports engineers are optimistic about EVs.
Khidorahian@reddit
usually the soul of a sports car is the engine and I think many would agree with me. Electric cars can be cool, but until they start to sound like electric trains with actual proper motor noise...
I can respect the engineering that goes into them through, but again, it's all bland crossover SUVs, with only the Lucid Air and the chinese innovating and putting out actually interesting EVs.
threeinacorner@reddit
Usually, yes, but things like the ID. R and the Mcmurtry Speirling (developed and built in Britain) are absolute projects of passion.
JB_UK@reddit
“Temu Range Rover”
EnderBaggins@reddit
If the Chinese ever figure out branding they’ll be a real problem.
threeinacorner@reddit
Agreed, I'm very interested in Chinese cars but some of these manufacturers truly do not understand the importance of branding.
BrunoEye@reddit
It's hilarious how bad they are at names. I'd say the knock-off styling also doesn't help establish them as a serious manufacturer, but it seems that's something many people actually want.
threeinacorner@reddit
Chery is the worst at this. They don't really have a design nor branding identity. Seriously, their lineup consists of Range Rover copycats, Lexus RX copycats, Audi copycats, etc. The names are dumb as well. Like, who thought Lepas sounds good? Or Exlantix?
Some companies, like Geely, are much more competent, though. Zeekr is still an odd name, but people are getting used to it now, and their cars genuinely look pretty good.
BYDs too are generally pretty good. Denza, Leopard, all are fine names. Even Yangwang, which is just straight up the Chinese name, and I respect that.
Gorignak@reddit
Link & Co. is one of the more confusing car brands. Like, what are they going for??
thedrivingcat@reddit
watch microbrand, here to cut out the middleman
bonestamp@reddit
It reminds me of when Lucky Goldstar came to North America and they eventually rebranded as LG.
familyguy20@reddit
Didn’t know that for the longest time, always thought it was Life’s Good lol
CriticalScholar@reddit
My theory on why they copy styling is because luxury brands like Range Rover and Audi are too expensive for the average buyer in china but they may like the overall design of those brands. So chery sees it as an opportunity to offer something with similar design for a lot less and using screens on the interior makes it a lot easier for them since they can carry over the interior styling across multiple sub brands relatively quickly and for cheap.
They also recognized there’s a market outside of china where people have similar views; they want a luxury brand but can’t afford it so they’re willing to buy the cheap lookalike.
FJCReaperChief@reddit
Zeekr sounds cool and their naming schemes for the cars make sense 001 is the top spec one, then you have the 7GT, which is the estate version of the 7X.
Then for SUVs u have the X, 7X, 8X and 9X, which makes sense.
The only weird one for Zeekr is the sedan version of the 7GT/7X. They call it the Zeekr Luxury Sedan, which sounds based, but would have been cooler if they just called it 7S/7Sedan...
Xpeng also have a decent naming convention, but, on the other hand, BYD does a terrible job at it because they have Dolphins, Seals, Sealions and Attos all mixed up. Sure I know which one is which, but that is because I am interested in Chinese cars...
MarsPourKoala@reddit
On top of that, Jaecoo and Omoda are sub-brands of Chery, names which sound suspiciously Korean and Japanese sounding despite them claiming completely different origins
TheMangoManHS@reddit
Isn't that why they bought MG and Lotus?
aamgdp@reddit
Lotus too? Didn't know that. See MG shits everywhere tho
dvb70@reddit
Lotus is a little different to MG. Lotus the company still exist and do a lot of engineering and development work where as MG is just badge engineering where nothing of the original MG still exists.
kstetter@reddit (OP)
Yes, by different companies though. MG is SAIC and Lotus is Geely (who also own Volvo)
londonprofessional@reddit
Polestar and Volvo pretty on point.
kstetter@reddit (OP)
I think Chery is the only one in the west to use all 20 of the Chinese brands instead of a rebadging them into a couple core ones
mgobla@reddit
Ridiculous. This is a bad vehicle and the design is a blatant copy of a Range Rover, just uglier. Cheaply built and sold way OVERPRICED. The ONLY reason people buy them is bc of aggresive influencing, bc the media tells them that this is a better Range Rover for less money and prestigeous / high status and for whatever reason people fall for it. Sad.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Kind shock most people in Britain buy this over than Puma, I mean it's considered a big car in there. Consider tiny streets and roads in so common in Britain, I can't believe most people there wanting big car.
chazzabazza_75@reddit
Not sure why people seem to assume this car is so big. Bigger than a Puma? Only slightly. It's Evoque/Q3/GLA sized.
Middzzeh@reddit
1 litre ecoboom, no thanks
StarX2401@reddit
Its mainly because its cheap and it looks very similar to a Range Rover. Tbf its not bad for the money, £30,000 brand new. Mpg is shocking though, it gets about 35mpg
RazingsIsNotHomeNow@reddit
That seems pretty low for a compact plug in hybrid, no?
BrunoEye@reddit
Yeah, it's less than my 22 year old sports car.
Denniz_K@reddit
“In Europe we don’t like big cars”
A big car that’s finally affordable
chazzabazza_75@reddit
This would be a compact / subcompact SUV/crossover to Americans. It's the size of an Audi Q3, Volvo XC40, which are top sellers in Europe. Are these really what you'd consider big cars?
Dark_Force@reddit
Would this even be considered a big car in the US?
sirbleep@reddit
Not even slightly, it’s the same size as an X1. It’s a subcompact suv in the US. That said, I don’t believe that Europeans would even consider this to be a big car, I’ve never seen anyone complaining about the “huge” size of the BMW X1…
bal00@reddit
This isn't a big car. It's the same size as a BMW X1.
xolov@reddit
Now compare it size wise with the best sellers in the UK 10 to 20 years ago.
MidnightSunIdk@reddit
its not big tho...
ferdiazgonzalez@reddit
These are fugly tho
kstetter@reddit (OP)
So are British cars
ferdiazgonzalez@reddit
Sure, Jaecoos look better than Aston Martins.
xolov@reddit
At least compare it with British cars in the same class lol
kstetter@reddit (OP)
Better than the Cygnet
MidnightAction@reddit
It's the car equivalent of a Dry Robe
Cygnus94@reddit
Had one of these behind me on a dual carriageway a couple days ago, plate suggested it was less than a year old. Was travelling at 70 in lane 2, coming up on a fairly gentle bend. As we're going round I noticed in my mirror it understeering halfway into lane 1 before the driver could get control of it.
They're utter wank. All image, no substance, and frankly it's dangerous for a car of that size to handle so shit.
Khidorahian@reddit
And thats why they’re so cheap. I saw dashcam footage of one running into a MG ZF.
DasHotShot@reddit
Bot post? Why give us a relatively old article like this?
turboevoluzione@reddit
Yep, OP has been shilling Chinese cars for the past month
kstetter@reddit (OP)
No, I just accidentally left it in drafts for a while
levenspiel_s@reddit
One thing I really dislike about this car is its looks, which interestingly everyone seems to praise.
codenameoxide@reddit
Was in London and Norwich last week. Saw one BYD during my 10 day visit, a ton of KIAs, Beamers, Mercs, Skoda, Vauxhall. How are these top selling?
kstetter@reddit (OP)
It's cheaper and the only model by the brand
HoveringPorridge@reddit
Interesting to discover seeing as my entire exposure to these is the UKCarTalk page. Owners are frequently on there complaining about the cars numerous faults.
Guess its not enough to stop people buying them.
kstetter@reddit (OP)
Never stopped Range Rover, which is the style they're copying with Jaecoo
Sargatanas2k2@reddit
Each to their own but we could really do with less 2.5 to electric cars making the roads even worse than they used to be.
JuliusCeaserBoneHead@reddit
Where did you get the 2.5 ton from?
zdy132@reddit
His ass, apprantly.
Sargatanas2k2@reddit
Yeah I made a mistake. They're still not my thing but at least they aren't ridiculous.
Captain_Alaska@reddit
It’s 1600kg in petrol form and 1750kg in PHEV spec, it’s basically the same weight as a Passat or Superb.
Sargatanas2k2@reddit
Yeah I was wrong with the weight. I should have double checked it.
PurpleSausage77@reddit
So, pick up trucks and SUV’s that most people in US buy anyway?
Sargatanas2k2@reddit
Probably, I don't live in the US. Cars as a whole are getting heavier though.
xdojk@reddit
OP is British and this article is about the UK
kstetter@reddit (OP)
No I'm not
kstetter@reddit (OP)
I'm not British, why am I being downvoted?
Facts_pls@reddit
It's an upvote in Australia
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
You were isekaid into a universe where the Australia Act 1986 was never passed
MortimerDongle@reddit
It's a compact SUV. Not particularly heavy, no where near 2.5 tons
Sargatanas2k2@reddit
Yep that's my mistake. Should have double checked it before thinking it was right.
red_fuel@reddit
It's over 3500lbs!
costafilh0@reddit
You should Ride a bicycle and save the roads yourself.
Sargatanas2k2@reddit
I do, my car doesn't do huge mileage.
Storm_Chaser06@reddit
It’s not a BMW M5 or Audi RS5, this one weighs about 1750 kilos
For one I’m annoyed at the European manufacturers for building cruise ships instead of dinghies.
Sargatanas2k2@reddit
Fair, I take what I said back. I remembered hearing these were larger and should have done further research.
MortimerDongle@reddit
It weighs less than a MINI Countryman
ryzenguy111@reddit
the base model is 1500kg
Wolfo93@reddit
Such a sad car. Range Rover from Temu
Snappy0@reddit
Maybe I'm out of touch (most likely), but I can't help but see drivers of these as "wants a Range Rover, but can't afford one".
Even the guy in the thumbnail is trying to hide from the same.
RessurectedAccount@reddit
This country is pathetic. The car us a piece of shit
Storm_Chaser06@reddit
Then tell the European manufacturers to build better shit.
If they can’t compete with Chinese prices and quality, then they don’t deserve to be bought.
RessurectedAccount@reddit
You can't be this dense surely? Do you understand the economies of scale China has? The average Chinese auto worker gets paid $4 an hour. In Europe its 30 euros plus. Do you understand what that means regarding retail sale price? So unless you are advocating for European workers to work for slave wages, you really should shut up. And don't talk about quality when every week there's stories of these Jaecoo shitboxes bricking themselves.
Ignorant as hell.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
People in Britain have basically given up their automakers, most just chose to buy the cars from foreigner automakers and let their own brands to control by foreigner automakers too. It isn't new to know how pathetic.
Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit
Is it really sorry bad? Plenty of "foreign" brands still manufacture in the UK
Part of having a free market is to let consumers decide what they want
Here in the US we're too focused on protecting our "domestic" brands who each have a history of shafting the population
If a manufacture can't compete with other companies, the public shouldn't feel obligated to protect it
ArthurFinchleyIII@reddit
But the foreign brands that do manufacture in the UK usually aren’t connected to foreign hostile governments who want to spy on our every move.
APigInANixonMask@reddit
The only truly British brands left exclusively make cars that cost six figures. All the mass market brands have been sold to foreign companies.
bngrxd@reddit
Tell us more
Redeemed_Expert9694@reddit
Wow
ConsumeYourBleach@reddit
The people that buy these rebadge them as Range Rovers, its fucking embarrassing
Uknewmelast@reddit
The temu range rover?
MarcusH26051@reddit
Completely unsurprising they are absolutely everywhere and the finance deals are ridiculously cheap. Think they've been going out the door at 0% finance ,£249 a month type deals.
costafilh0@reddit
How low the empire have fallen.
costafilh0@reddit
How low have the empire fallen.
Still-alive49@reddit
It all make sense since UK does not belong to UK.
GMOrgasm@reddit
what do you mean by that
jcanfbi@reddit
Now I know boots are off their rocker
Armored_Guardian@reddit
First Australia, now the UK, tomorrow Canada? Chinese cars are taking over it seems
ManInBlackSuite@reddit
This is fucked up.
Still-alive49@reddit
Yeah UK has been fked for years mate. Kinda sad tho.